2016 Presidential Horse Race

[kmoose]

NAFTA has been a disaster on so many levels. Clinton is a putz for ever signing it.

But the Republicans in general, and Reagan in particular, are solely responsible for the demise of the middle class.......

 

[Cackalacky]

Just wait for the TTP. It's so bad it's a secret and classified.

 

[Bluto]

But the Republicans in general, and Reagan in particular, are solely responsible for the demise of the middle class.......

I don't think that for one minute and it might surprise some people that many of my childhood friends are die hard Republicans. I think the whole fairy tale of "global free markets" and deregulation are the cure for everything are the clear cut culprit in terms of torpedoing the middle class. In terms of other Democrats who suck I found the way the DNC and that fat ass Micheal Moore turned on Ralph Nader (a champion for the average Joe if ever there was one) to be particularly loathsome.

 

[ACamp1900]

No. I won't vote for HRC. Kasich ..... possibly, but no one else from the R's. There is nothing they have done or have said to make me even entertain anyone else. I initially meant I want to see if Bernie can beat her, which I think he can though he probably won't. But I still think Sanders or Clinton will beat whoever the R's have.

I thought you were asking a general question about who would win

I was, your answer seemed to veer towards who you wanted...

 

[dang227]

Originally, yes. I was born and raised there. But I haven't lived there since 1989.

I live there now and grew up in Canton.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wizards8507]

What all those have in common is "free markets" running amok with little to no regulatory oversight. It's pretty simple actually. Here's a pretty good summary of the financial meltdown of 2008. I'm sure you'll blow it off as a communist conspiracy considering it's based on facts and credible sources.

The Warning | FRONTLINE | PBS

What the hell do you think a free market is? "Give mortgages to poor people with shit credit, or else" is not a free market. A free market is "give mortgages to whomever you deem worthy and charge whatever interest rate you and the borrower negotiate." Let interest rates work. They manage risk. When they're kept artificially low, i.e. over-regulated, excessive risk enters the equation until shit hits the fan.

 

[Bluto]

What the hell do you think a free market is? "Give mortgages to poor people with shit credit, or else" is not a free market. A free market is "give mortgages to whomever you deem worthy and charge whatever interest rate you and the borrower negotiate." Let interest rates work. They manage risk. When they're kept artificially low, i.e. over-regulated, excessive risk enters the equation until shit hits the fan.

Lol. You need to go to grad school and retake some basic sociology classes. Every unregulated financial market ever has crashed and burned due to humans making bad decisions based on perceived self interest, group think, herd behavior, mob mentality, ect. Hey if you're cool with returning to the time of the pre 1930's reforms that prevented our economic cycle from looking like amusement park rides when graphed good for you. That pattern is exactly like the population cycles of quail ironically enough. I on the other hand would prefer to avoid structuring our entire economy in a manner that is literally for the birds.

 

[wizards8507]

Lol. You need to go to grad school and retake some basic sociology classes. Every unregulated financial market ever has crashed and burned due to humans making bad decisions based on perceived self interest, group think, herd behavior, mob mentality, ect. Hey if you're cool with returning to the time of the pre 1930's reforms that prevented our economic cycle from looking like amusement park rides when graphed good for you. That pattern is exactly like the population cycles of quail ironically enough. I on the other hand would prefer to avoid structuring our entire economy in a manner that is literally for the birds.

My graduate work has been in accounting and finance (one advanced degree completed and a second in progress) and you're lecturing me on economics because... sociology?

 

[Booslum31]

What the hell do you think a free market is? "Give mortgages to poor people with shit credit, or else" is not a free market. A free market is "give mortgages to whomever you deem worthy and charge whatever interest rate you and the borrower negotiate." Let interest rates work. They manage risk. When they're kept artificially low, i.e. over-regulated, excessive risk enters the equation until shit hits the fan.

This.

 

[Bluto]

My graduate work has been in accounting and finance (one advanced degree completed and a second in progress) and you're lecturing me on economics because... sociology?

Accounting/finance and economic theory are completely different. If I wanted to see a balance sheet or p and l statement I'm sure you'd do great. I'm sure you're a wiz with Excell too. The fact that you don't seem to see the connections between social theory, economics, ecology and biology explains a lot of the content of your posts.

 

[wizards8507]

Accounting/finance and economic theory are completely different. If I wanted to see a balance sheet or p and l statement I'm sure you'd do great. I'm sure you're a wiz with Excell too. The fact that you don't seem to see the connections between social theory, economics, ecology and biology explains a lot of the content of your posts.

Maybe you don't understand what courses are included in graduate business work. Advanced Economic Theory, Micro and Macro. Econometrics. Organizational Behavior. The Regulatory Envrionment. Tax Research.

 

[wizards8507]

Here, learn something. This is from the University of Notre Dame's Saturday Scholar Series in 2008.

https://youtu.be/6X4q2qJ1cUM

 

[Bluto]

Here, learn something. This is from the University of Notre Dame's Saturday Scholar Series in 2008.

https://youtu.be/6X4q2qJ1cUM

Hey thanks. Who "owns" your lake?

 

[Bluto]

Maybe you don't understand what courses are included in graduate business work. Advanced Economic Theory, Micro and Macro. Econometrics. Organizational Behavior. The Regulatory Envrionment. Tax Research.

Oh I understand. Econ schools are cheerleaders for fantasy land free market bullshit in the same way liberal arts colleges are for certain pie in the sky social theory. Yep, seems like typical accountant/econ stuff as opposed to multi disciplinary theory. No doubt it helps one understand how to file corporate tax returns. As far as providing any analysis or critique of "free market theory" doubt it highly.

Read some Marx, Engles, Weber, Bourdieu and Foucault and get back to me. #liberalartseducationbitches

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Reagan's policies were what one would do to pull the country out of recession. He put us in stimulous mode -- dramatic increases in spending, huge cuts in taxes. The problem is that stimulous measures are usually pulled back when the trouble passes, but Reagan's policies became irreversable Republican doctrine. Their answer to everything has been "reduce taxes, roll back regulation, more military spending" since he took office and through today. The GOP is convinced that if they just do what Reagan did, they will have the same results. The problem with that is, it is stimulous upon perpetual stimulous. Too much stimulation is terrible for the economy. Their are instances when measured stimulous is great for the economy. Reagan's recovery from the recession of the late 70s is a great example, but long term refusal to raise revenue to run the government, and handing the government over to big businesses has gutted the middle class and made life for everyday citizens worse, not better. And since the levers of power are now operated by the big corporations who benefit most from them, there is little hope that they are going to hand that power back willingly.

When Dems are in office, the fierce backlash to roll back any of those policies makes it near impossible to set the country on the right track. When you say "Government caused this mess," I fully agree, and it is Ronald Reagan who launched us in that direction. We need to invest in this country's infrastructure -- power grid, roads and bridges, sewage systems. This will create jobs -- good paying jobs that will get this country moving in the right direction again while bringing in new tax revenue. Let's use that money to invest in renewable energy, get away from fossile fuels and get out of the Middle East once and for all and let them finish their ancient feuds without our intervention. I'm tired of watching news reports about dead American soldiers ... aren't the Republicans? I suppose not. They always seem willing to build and drop more bombs on just about anyone. We need to reform education to prepare the workforce who will drive this economy in the future.

I know, you will say we can't afford such things. I say we cannot afford not to have them. You will say the real problem is with the social programs that help the poor and the underserved. That helping our own people is unsustainable but doing anything but spending 10 times what any other country in the world spends on the military is absolutely unspeakable. Your party was all for stimulous when the Gipper was running things. It's almost like the love of party and its infallible diety is greater than the love of country.

That's a cute way to rewrite history. Equating what Reagan did to what Obama did is certifiably insane. Reagan understood economic growth came from the private sector not from government. The numbers don't lie.

Obama passed what you want a second round of (stimulus), andmwe saw unemployment rise. Even if we did pass another $800 billion stimulus, those "good paying jobs" rebuilding America would not be long term. But go ahead and keep believing all things good come fro, government.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

He worked with the Democrats, for Christ sake. He would be viewed as a traitor.

In the 80s there were Democrats in office who were interested in economic growth.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

My graduate work has been in accounting and finance (one advanced degree completed and a second in progress) and you're lecturing me on economics because... sociology?

Hahahahaha. The new left: social justice and emotion > math

 

[Cackalacky]

Hahahahaha. The new left: social justice and emotion > math

Not to speak for Bluto but I don't think that is what he is saying. What he is saying is there is theory (wizards point) like what is taught in class and there is implementation and the results of that implementation of those theories, which is totally integral and dependent upon social issues.

You can't have one and not affect the other. Some theories work. Some don't. Some produce results biased towards a group of people others are biased towards other groups. That is not the new left. That is the way it's always been.

 

[Buster Bluth]

In the 80s there were Democrats in office who were interested in economic growth.

Compared to the Democrats of 1993-2001 or 2009-Pres? Did the economy not grow during those four Democratic terms?

In fact I think you could take any year and go a decade out and the economy grew regardless of who the Presidents were. 1900 to 1910, 1930 to 1940, whatever.

It's almost like conservatives don't have a monopoly on economics and that the Presidents' impact on the most developed economy in the history of the world isn't that large.

 

[LeapinLeprechaun]

I'm Independent but lean a little to the left. Saying that, if the Republicans don't run Kasich in the General election, HRC is going to win easily. I like listening to the guy and he is not into just running down Democrats, which I hate about politicians. Nothing will get done without compromise on issues. Kasich was the architect of balancing the budget, we should pay attention.

Could the media please get off this Marco Rubio crap, the guy doesn't impress me at all.

 

[BGIF]

I'm Independent but lean a little to the left. Saying that, if the Republicans don't run Kasich in the General election, HRC is going to win easily. I like listening to the guy and he is not into just running down Democrats, which I hate about politicians. Nothing will get done without compromise on issues. Kasich was the architect of balancing the budget, we should pay attention.

Could the media please get off this Marco Rubio crap, the guy doesn't impress me at all.

I'm also an Indie and think Kasich has the best shot at pulling in the middle. The conservatives are doing to the Republican party what the liberals did to the Dems with Muskie, et al. surrendering the middle.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm also an Indie and think Kasich has the best shot at pulling in the middle. The conservatives are doing to the Republican party what the liberals did to the Dems with Muskie, et al. surrendering the middle.

Except that the most conservative modern president won in two of the most lopsided elections ever. A Republican can't win by acting like a Democrat because if voters want a Democrat they'll just vote for one. A GOP nominee needs to show that they'll reverse what's going on in Washington, not continue to go in the same direction just at a slower pace. Republicans can't win by acting squishy, they can win by selling conservatism.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Trade proposal: we will gladly give you Jeb and Kasich for Jim Webb.

 

[GoIrish41]

Except that the most conservative modern president won in two of the most lopsided elections ever. A Republican can't win by acting like a Democrat because if voters want a Democrat they'll just vote for one. A GOP nominee needs to show that they'll reverse what's going on in Washington, not continue to go in the same direction just at a slower pace. Republicans can't win by acting squishy, they can win by selling conservatism.

Should have ended your sentence here. The earth has shifted under the conservatives' feet. They must either appeal to all voters or they will continue to lose national elections.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Except that the most conservative modern president won in two of the most lopsided elections ever.

"modern"

That happened before I was even alive.

A Republican can't win by acting like a Democrat because if voters want a Democrat they'll just vote for one.

Oddly enough the Clintons win by acting like Republicans and triangulating against liberals.

A GOP nominee needs to show that they'll reverse what's going on in Washington, not continue to go in the same direction just at a slower pace.

I'm curious what you think of these:

Republicans can't win by acting squishy, they can win by selling conservatism.

Republicans win be sprinting away from the social conservatives the moment their candidate gets the nomination.

 

[GoIrish41]

Trade proposal: we will gladly give you Jeb and Kasich for Jim Webb.

Webb is on the waiver wire .... Just claim him

 

[IrishJayhawk]

"modern"

That happened before I was even alive.



Oddly enough the Clintons win by acting like Republicans and triangulating against liberals.



I'm curious what you think of these:

Republicans win be sprinting away from the social conservatives the moment their candidate gets the nomination.

How about this one?

The current deficit as a percentage of GDP is less than it was through most of the 80s.

 

[kmoose]

How much of an impact on deficits has sequestration had? I mean, if the automatic spending cuts/limits had not taken effect, and the government had been able to spend as much as the people would allow it; how much different would those numbers be?

 

[wizards8507]

How much of an impact on deficits has sequestration had? I mean, if the automatic spending cuts/limits had not taken effect, and the government had been able to spend as much as the people would allow it; how much different would those numbers be?

Probably not very, honestly. Discretionary spending is small potatoes without military cuts and entitlement reform.

 

[Cackalacky]

Carson Calls for Major Changes in GOP Debate Format, Distribution - WSJ