Police State USA

[IrishJayhawk]

Because we're a society of sadistic assholes apparently. This kid wasn't breaking any laws so why in the hell was law enforcement involved? If the kid doesn't want to learn oh well, call her parents and suspend her from school. Instead we call in Rambo and kill a fly with a bazzoka. Good job America.

To be fair, resource officers are there for kids who refuse to follow directions or are being particularly belligerent, not just for law breakers. I just can't see how his actions were in context with hers.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Because we're a society of sadistic assholes apparently. This kid wasn't breaking any laws so why in the hell was law enforcement involved? If the kid doesn't want to learn oh well, call her parents and suspend her from school. Instead we call in Rambo and kill a fly with a bazzoka. Good job America.

#WussificationofAmerica
*no italics in my phone

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

She was defying orders by multiple people and then swung at the "enforcer" when he was removing her

He may have used more than necessary force but do any of you believe he should be fired for this?

 

[kmoose]

Because we're a society of sadistic assholes apparently. This kid wasn't breaking any laws so why in the hell was law enforcement involved? If the kid doesn't want to learn oh well, call her parents and suspend her from school. Instead we call in Rambo and kill a fly with a bazzoka. Good job America.

I guess fvck teaching kids respect for authority, huh?

I thought that the cop was actually kind of calm. He tried to pick her up out of the desk, but because of the mechanics of it, he ended up picking up her AND the desk, too. He didn't "slam" her to the floor; the desk just flipped over with her in it. He then pulled her out of the chair as it was on the floor. She was not going willingly, so he had to pull pretty hard, and she got tossed pretty good at that point. After she is out and he is on top of her, getting ready to cuff her, you can hear him telling her quite calmly to give him her hands. He doesn't sound out of control and screaming at all.

 

[GoIrish41]

She was defying orders by multiple people and then swung at the "enforcer" when he was removing her

He may have used more than necessary force but do any of you believe he should be fired for this?

I absolutely believe he should be fired. That is not to say that I think she wasn't acting like a spoiled teenager, but the amount of force he used was way, way over the top to respond to a person who refused to put her phone away.

The escalation of force when things annoy authority figures is getting to the point of outrageousness. As has been discussed by several posters, there were multiple other ways to handle this situation violence. I get it, she should do what she is told and didn't. But, flopping her desk over, ripping her from it, tossing her across the room and then cuffing her is not an appropriate response to a stubborn teen who refuses to put her phone away. Heard on the news this morning that this guy has earned something of a reputation within that school for his rough treatment of students, and that there is currently a separate lawsuit pending for another incident. Fire him! He clearly does not have the temperment to be a school resource officer.

 

[Cackalacky]

Everyone of us knows that cops are not called to these situations unless they are needed (mostly). We all know the reason they are called is someone is doing something they should not. We all know the chances of the situation of being tense are high.

My big question in everyone of these situations....Why is it acceptable to a lot of you for an officer to over-react? Why is it necessary for a single office to expert his control over the situation single-handedly which invariably makes the situation WORSE? What is better... what he did (almost hitting the child behind him with the desk leg) or

...Calling for back up or assistance. I understand they may only have on officer but they are officers and can have back up at the school in minutes I suspect. Once back up arrives....Asking everyone else to leave the room to prevent anything else from happening. Two officers who can remove the girl safely and forcibly form the desk.

Apparently this is not the first time this officer in particular has been under investigation for excessive force (see my second video link above).

My point is now this is the second time this officer has been seen aggressively manhandling a student. All the students saw this. He does not have the respect of the citizens he is serving. That is not what it is supposed to be.

I know most of you will claim they should by default respect cops...well no they should not if the cops are notoriously aggressive and do things to make situations worse when they are already tense to begin with.

I would much rather have that girl removed safely and calmly so that the kids can see that instead of what was on that tape.

If you want an example of what to do... look up the video of the Swedish cops breaking up a fight on the NY subway. That is what it should be.

 

[PANDFAN]

Oyy vey... kids and their damn cell phones... Someone needs to make an app where the parents can disable their kids phone, at any time, from anywhere. So if the school calls up the parent and says hey. Your brat kid has been caught on their cell phone X amount of times in the last month, the parent could then use the app disable the phone when they are at school from 8 to 3.... or whatever the hours of classes are these days. Thats my million dollar idea. No one steal it now.

yeah we have something similar that we pay verizon 10.00 a month to control my step daughters phone

 

[GoIrish41]

Everyone of us knows that cops are not called to these situations unless they are needed (mostly). We all know the reason they are called is someone is doing something they should not. We all know the chances of the situation of being tense are high.

My big question in everyone of these situations....Why is it acceptable to a lot of you for an officer to over-react? Why is it necessary for a single office to expert his control over the situation single-handedly which invariably makes the situation WORSE? What is better... what he did (almost hitting the child behind him with the desk leg) or

...Calling for back up or assistance. I understand they may only have on officer but they are officers and can have back up at the school in minutes I suspect. Once back up arrives....Asking everyone else to leave the room to prevent anything else from happening. Two officers who can remove the girl safely and forcibly form the desk.

Apparently this is not the first time this officer in particular has been under investigation for excessive force (see my second video link above).

My point is now this is the second time this officer has been seen aggressively manhandling a student. All the students saw this. He does not have the respect of the citizens he is serving. That is not what it is supposed to be.

I know most of you will claim they should by default respect cops...well no they should not if the cops are notoriously aggressive and do things to make situations worse when they are already tense to begin with.

I would much rather have that girl removed safely and calmly so that the kids can see that instead of what was on that tape.If you want an example of what to do... look up the video of the Swedish cops breaking up a fight on the NY subway. That is what it should be.

This is an excellent point. Students go to school to learn. What did the students in this classroom learn on that day?

 

[IrishLax]

I absolutely believe he should be fired. That is not to say that I think she wasn't acting like a spoiled teenager, but the amount of force he used was way, way over the top to respond to a person who refused to put her phone away.

The escalation of force when things annoy authority figures is getting to the point of outrageousness. As has been discussed by several posters, there were multiple other ways to handle this situation violence. I get it, she should do what she is told and didn't. But, flopping her desk over, ripping her from it, tossing her across the room and then cuffing her is not an appropriate response to a stubborn teen who refuses to put her phone away. Heard on the news this morning that this guy has earned something of a reputation within that school for his rough treatment of students, and that there is currently a separate lawsuit pending for another incident. Fire him! He clearly does not have the temperment to be a school resource officer.

She suffered no injuries though... I mean, I agree the optics of it are horrible. Throwing her out of the desk and everything. It's extremely physical.

But he got the job done with no injuries to the offending party. And he took steps before removing her to mitigate risk of her injury. So he acted rather responsibly, and I guess is guilty of being too strong, too male, and too white?

 

[Cackalacky]

She suffered no injuries though... I mean, I agree the optics of it are horrible. Throwing her out of the desk and everything. It's extremely physical.

But he got the job done with no injuries to the offending party. And he took steps before removing her to mitigate risk of her injury. So he acted rather responsibly, and I guess is guilty of being too strong, too male, and too white?

I have had a lot of time to think about this one and the more I think about it I am more sure now that the officer over reacted and that with back up this could have been avoided.

But to your response, he also almost hit another student in the face (who was trying not look if you watch the film) by flipping the desk.... he also had to arrest another student who was trying to intervene because her PERCEPTION (and others with her based on his previous reputation) was he was too aggressive.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

She suffered no injuries though... I mean, I agree the optics of it are horrible. Throwing her out of the desk and everything. It's extremely physical.

But he got the job done with no injuries to the offending party. And he took steps before removing her to mitigate risk of her injury. So he acted rather responsibly, and I guess is guilty of being too strong, too male, and too white?

I think the fact that she wasn't injured is missing the point. She could very easily have been injured. I know it's nothing like a DUI, but not getting into an accident doesn't make it less irresponsible.

I think these kinds of scenarios happen in schools a lot. I've never seen one play out like this.

 

[GoIrish41]

She suffered no injuries though... I mean, I agree the optics of it are horrible. Throwing her out of the desk and everything. It's extremely physical.

But he got the job done with no injuries to the offending party. And he took steps before removing her to mitigate risk of her injury. So he acted rather responsibly, and I guess is guilty of being too strong, too male, and too white?

According to her attorney she did, indeed, suffer injuries. At least that is what I heard him say on a morning news report. According to him, her arm is in cast and her head is bandaged due to injuries she received during the altercation. (He didn't specify the injuries). And while the cast and bandage, too, may just be for optics on the girl's part, it is clear that this guy acted recklessly in a room full of students. As a parent, I can tell you that his actions would not be acceptable to me if my son or daughter was in that room. And after seeing it, I would be demanding that he never be around them again.

 

[Wild Bill]

According to her attorney she did, indeed, suffer injuries. At least that is what I heard him say on a morning news report. According to him, her arm is in cast and her head is bandaged due to injuries she received during the altercation. (He didn't specify the injuries). And while the cast and bandage, too, may just be for optics on the girl's part, it is clear that this guy acted recklessly in a room full of students. As a parent, I can tell you that his actions would not be acceptable to me if my son or daughter was in that room. And after seeing it, I would be demanding that he never be around them again.

hahaha.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I'm also not convinced the girl needed to be removed from class at all. Was she being loudly belligerent to the point that she was disruptive? Or was she just not participating. It's not unheard of to re-direct the student and, if she doesn't comply, address it after class is over.

Again, no one is defending her. It's not that I think she's right. I simply think the officer went beyond an acceptable level of force.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

hahaha.

You don't think it's possible that she was injured when she slammed into the tile floor (likely with cement slab underneath it) while in the desk?

 

[IrishLax]

According to her attorney she did, indeed, suffer injuries. At least that is what I heard him say on a morning news report. According to him, her arm is in cast and her head is bandaged due to injuries she received during the altercation. (He didn't specify the injuries). And while the cast and bandage, too, may just be for optics on the girl's part, it is clear that this guy acted recklessly in a room full of students. As a parent, I can tell you that his actions would not be acceptable to me if my son or daughter was in that room. And after seeing it, I would be demanding that he never be around them again.

Yeah, IMO, this is all BS for a lawsuit. I know it was reported as fact immediately afterwards that he had no serious injuries. No broken bones, not even serious abrasions. No doubt after the video went viral she is going to claim a concussion and other "trauma" but that's in direct contrast to the earlier reporting.

My entire perception of everything changes if she broke her arm or suffered some other significant trauma. But until I see photos or x-rays or some medical evaluation notes I'm not going to be convinced by statement's from her lawyer who will be looking for a big payday from multiple public entities.

 

[Bluto]

I guess fvck teaching kids respect for authority, huh?

I thought that the cop was actually kind of calm. He tried to pick her up out of the desk, but because of the mechanics of it, he ended up picking up her AND the desk, too. He didn't "slam" her to the floor; the desk just flipped over with her in it. He then pulled her out of the chair as it was on the floor. She was not going willingly, so he had to pull pretty hard, and she got tossed pretty good at that point. After she is out and he is on top of her, getting ready to cuff her, you can hear him telling her quite calmly to give him her hands. He doesn't sound out of control and screaming at all.

I've worked with kids of all ages in multiple settings. Guess how many times I've had to call the police to deal with my inability to establish clear boundaries from day one? Never. That's how you teach kids respect and it is a two way street.

I see this situation as a complete failure of the faculty and staff of this school on every level. If you read my post you will notice I did not question the cops behavior rather the need to involve "law enforcement" in the first place. I'm fairly certain most of the adults I know could have calmly walked up to that kid and snatched that cell phone out of her hand and then calmly escorted her to the principals office. Instead we get an outtake from Cops. It's rediculous.

 

[IrishLax]

You don't think it's possible that she was injured when she slammed into the tile floor (likely with cement slab underneath it) while in the desk?

Concrete. A cement slab is unheard of.... would have no structural integrity.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yeah, IMO, this is all BS for a lawsuit. I know it was reported as fact immediately afterwards that he had no serious injuries. No broken bones, not even serious abrasions. No doubt after the video went viral she is going to claim a concussion and other "trauma" but that's in direct contrast to the earlier reporting.

My entire perception of everything changes if she broke her arm or suffered some other significant trauma. But until I see photos or x-rays or some medical evaluation notes I'm not going to be convinced by statement's from her lawyer who will be looking for a big payday from multiple public entities.

I do not disagree with any of this. While I have no idea if her injuries are real or optics for a pending lawsuit, they certainly could be real given the altercation. But the fact remains that, as Jayhawk has pointed out, whether she was actually injured is really beside the point. The fact is that the way he jostled her around, knocked the desk over and threw her across the room could have easily been injured. If she isn't injured it is simply because this guy is lucky. He endangered her and every other student in that classroom.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Concrete. A cement slab is unheard of.... would have no structural integrity.

Sorry. I'm a teacher...and not of engineering. It's hard. The floor is hard.

 

[Bluto]

Concrete. A cement slab is unheard of.... would have no structural integrity.

This whole situation is one big lack of structural integrity.

 

[Cackalacky]

Concrete. A cement slab is unheard of.... would have no structural integrity.

That makes my skin crawl too...lol

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That makes my skin crawl too...lol

Mea culpa

 

[Irish Insanity]

Everyone of us knows that cops are not called to these situations unless they are needed (mostly). We all know the reason they are called is someone is doing something they should not. We all know the chances of the situation of being tense are high.

My big question in everyone of these situations....Why is it acceptable to a lot of you for an officer to over-react? Why is it necessary for a single office to expert his control over the situation single-handedly which invariably makes the situation WORSE? What is better... what he did (almost hitting the child behind him with the desk leg) or

...Calling for back up or assistance. I understand they may only have on officer but they are officers and can have back up at the school in minutes I suspect. Once back up arrives....Asking everyone else to leave the room to prevent anything else from happening. Two officers who can remove the girl safely and forcibly form the desk.

Apparently this is not the first time this officer in particular has been under investigation for excessive force (see my second video link above).

My point is now this is the second time this officer has been seen aggressively manhandling a student. All the students saw this. He does not have the respect of the citizens he is serving. That is not what it is supposed to be.

I know most of you will claim they should by default respect cops...well no they should not if the cops are notoriously aggressive and do things to make situations worse when they are already tense to begin with.

I would much rather have that girl removed safely and calmly so that the kids can see that instead of what was on that tape.

If you want an example of what to do... look up the video of the Swedish cops breaking up a fight on the NY subway. That is what it should be.

Excellent post

She suffered no injuries though... I mean, I agree the optics of it are horrible. Throwing her out of the desk and everything. It's extremely physical.

But he got the job done with no injuries to the offending party. And he took steps before removing her to mitigate risk of her injury. So he acted rather responsibly, and I guess is guilty of being too strong, too male, and too white?

I don't get why her being injured has any play in this. His actions were the same whether she's injured or not. He wasn't protecting anyone, but he did put her, and other students, in danger with his actions.

 

[PANDFAN]

getting fired

 

[IrishJayhawk]

S.C. Sheriff's Deputy Is Fired After Review Of High School Student's Arrest : The Two-Way : NPR

Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott has fired Senior Deputy Ben Fields over the white deputy's violent arrest of a black high school student, which was filmed by several students. Lott said Fields broke department policy in the arrest.

"It's not what I expect from my deputies, and it's not what I tolerate from my deputies," Lott says.

The sheriff also said that he's glad students documented the arrest with videos, which he said were helpful in reviewing the case.

Lott said "the maneuver" that Fields used didn't follow proper training or procedure, adding that he was upset after watching video of the moment when the deputy "picked the student up, and he threw the student across the room."

"He tried to do his job," Lott said, before adding, "It happened very quickly. His actions were something that, if he probably had to do it over again, he'd have probably done it different."

Of the student who refused to get up from her desk, Lott says she "wasn't a danger at that point. She was just being non-compliant and disrespectful."

The officer's goal, Lott says, should have been to talk with her and to deescalate the situation before resorting to any physical contact.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't get why her being injured has any play in this. His actions were the same whether she's injured or not. He wasn't protecting anyone, but he did put her, and other students, in danger with his actions.

So you think attempted murder and first degree capital murder are the same crime?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So you think attempted murder and first degree capital murder are the same crime?

No. But both are crimes.

 

[Black Irish]

I've been taking the D.C. Metro line to work lately. It seems that the Transit Police will conduct bag checks at the gates of random exits. On the one hand, I see the need for security, but on the other, is this a valid exception to the need for probable cause and a warrant? It's one thing if they're searching people before getting on a train, but after you've gotten off? I'm all for safety and security, but I also don't like rolling over just because a cop says "open your bag and let me search it." I've done a little research but haven't come up with anything conclusive. If it happens to me, and I have enough time on my hands, I'm willing to challenge it, and ask to see a warrant. Anyone have a sense of how this plays out under 4th Amendment protections?

 

[Irish Insanity]

So you think attempted murder and first degree capital murder are the same crime?

I have no idea how we went from an officers overreaction to the death, or attempted, of an individual. Her being injured would make the action more unacceptable, just because she wasn't doesn't make it acceptable.
If I drive drunk. It's wrong and I should be punished. If while doing so I injure someone else my punishment will be harsher. But at the end of the day driving drunk is still going to result in punishment.