Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[ickythump1225]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looking at ND/Clem 2-deep: Irish have 3 Rivals 5-stars & 25 4-stars. Tigers have 4 5-stars and 17 4-stars. B. Kelly getting it done 'crootin</p>— Larry Williams (@LarryWilliamsTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/648849984083898368">September 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
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Well I don't think anyone has knocked BK when it comes to recruiting. The man can recruit. Remarkably well actually considering our biggest accomplishment under his tenure is getting blown out in the NC by Alabama 3 years ago. I know that sounded like a shot, but I don't meant it that harshly. I'm just saying we still recruits from Alabama, OSU, etc. when they have won NC recently and we haven't. BK is a very good recruiter.

 

[clashmore_jon]

our biggest accomplishment under his tenure is getting blown out in the NC by Alabama 3 years ago.

a few things: getting blown out in the NC is leagues better than losing to USC at home, which is the comparable 'biggest accomplishment' of the Weis era.

I would argue though that the loss is not our biggest accomplishment. How about going 12-0 through a really difficult regular season schedule (and finishing the 4th ranked team in the country)? How about the win against LSU last year? how about any of the other marquee wins?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

a few things: getting blown out in the NC is leagues better than losing to USC at home, which is the comparable 'biggest accomplishment' of the Weis era.

I would argue though that the loss is not our biggest accomplishment. How about going 12-0 through a really difficult regular season schedule (and finishing the 4th ranked team in the country)? How about the win against LSU last year? how about any of the other marquee wins?

Even if we just focus on the title game, only 10 teams have made it that far over the last decade. So that alone puts us in pretty rarefied air, disappointing outcome notwithstanding.

 

[Irish Insanity]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looking at ND/Clem 2-deep: Irish have 3 Rivals 5-stars & 25 4-stars. Tigers have 4 5-stars and 17 4-stars. B. Kelly getting it done 'crootin</p>— Larry Williams (@LarryWilliamsTI) <a href="https://twitter.com/LarryWilliamsTI/status/648849984083898368">September 29, 2015</a></blockquote>
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So recruiting is great. Now, let's see the results.

 

[ickythump1225]

a few things: getting blown out in the NC is leagues better than losing to USC at home, which is the comparable 'biggest accomplishment' of the Weis era.

I would argue though that the loss is not our biggest accomplishment. How about going 12-0 through a really difficult regular season schedule (and finishing the 4th ranked team in the country)? How about the win against LSU last year? how about any of the other marquee wins?

Winning against LSU was very big, but 5 years into BK's tenure it was a big disheartening to end up 7-5 and in the Music City Bowl.

As for going 12-0, why do teams strive for that? To get to the NC. The NC is the accomplishment. By even being in the NC it means we had an outstanding season. I do agree that losing in the NC is far better than losing to USC at home.

Really though, you ripped that quote out of the context to the rest of the rest of my post. Think about what the vast majority of people around the country think of as our biggest accomplishment. They think getting to the NC in 2012. Now think about how badly that went for us. Yet, BK is still able to recruit like a hoss. That's why I'm saying. It is a testament to how good BK is at recruiting.

 

[tussin]

Winning against LSU was very big, but 5 years into BK's tenure it was a big disheartening to end up 7-5 and in the Music City Bowl.

No doubt it was disappointing, but people need to start appreciating the level of bad luck that BK had last year.

We were coming into the year with a really good roster and lost 4 players (3 starters) right before fall camp. Then BK overcomes these losses and gets ND humming, only to be absolutely decimated by injuries on the defensive side of the ball.

He gets a pass IMO.

 

[T Town Tommy]

No doubt it was disappointing, but people need to start appreciating the level of bad luck that BK had last year.

We were coming into the year with a really good roster and lost 4 players (3 starters) right before fall camp. Then BK overcomes these losses and gets ND humming, only to be absolutely decimated by injuries on the defensive side of the ball.

He gets a pass IMO.

Yes and no IMO. Yes he has had to deal with a lot of injuries, suspensions, etc. And that has played a big part in his inability to get to that 10 win season consistently. So I can give him a pass there. But I don't give him a pass for some of his play calling and game management. Nor do I give him a pass at times for not stepping up post game and taking some responsibility when his decisions cost the team.

With that said, I don't know if I am all in or all out on Kelly. Just when I think he has the machine going, he does something that makes you scratch your head. Until he reaches the big time all the time, and has to coach in those games that determine if the Irish will be in the hunt for a playoff position, I guess I will stay cautiously optimistic that he is indeed the coach the Irish deserve. A win Saturday night could go a long way in determining whether Kelly is the real deal or if he is the Tuberville of South Bend.

 

[Irish Insanity]

At what point is there no more passes. Someone else's players. You can't recruit 'players' at ND with our academics. Injuries. Academic suspensions

 

[ACamp1900]

At what point is there no more passes. Someone else's players. You can't recruit 'players' at ND with our academics. Injuries. Academic suspensions

I was as frustrated last year as anyone... but yeah, it's hard to judge what happened the second half of last year... the thing that made it harder to swallow was year one, two and four of BK along with it...

Here's the thing, ND was in this same spot last year and it fell apart... win at least one between USC and Clemson and avoid the trap/wtf loss and the season is an unquestionable success, even without the injuries... have another complete collapse and lose 4 plus games and idk man... so close, yet seemingly so far, story of BK's ND career thus far.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

At what point is there no more passes. Someone else's players. You can't recruit 'players' at ND with our academics. Injuries. Academic suspensions

These are not "passes" or "excuses". The cold hard facts are that Brian Kelly took over a completely disfunctional program from his predecessor devoid of any depth at all, and completely lacking talent and development on both lines and on the defensive side of the ball. Technique was horrible, and attitude was equally bad. This program, in regards to being a national contender needed to be rebuilt from the ground up. No coach, or program in the country could have thrived last year, losing the 5 players we did prior to the season even starting, then being completely obliterated by injury to the entire defense, which was already hurt by suspension.

We may have wanted a different result last year, and even the year before that (when we lost our starting QB for the year to suspension), but that doesn't mean that these instances didn't in fact happen. Brian Kelly has had to overcome MANY obstacles and challenges that are unique to schools like Notre Dame that are trying to compete in the football arena with other universities that do not face the same challenges. Winning aside, do you think Nick Saban could RECRUIT to the level that he is at Alabama if he were at Notre Dame? Many of those players would not pass our academic requirements, and many others would not have the interest in taking on all the other challenges of being a student athlete at ND that are not the same at other institutions.

You can call them excuses if you choose, but they are FACTS that make the job that Brian Kelly holds at ND much more difficult than what Urban Meyer has to do at OSU, or Saban, or Richt or any of those guys. Brian Kelly is by no means perfect, but I tend to believe even if you took an Urban Meyer and put him in the pressure cooker that is ND, you would see flaws and there would be less margin for error to achieve the level of success he is achieving at OSU. Yes he did what he did last year after losing his starting QB...while that is a big blow, it is not the same as losing 3-4 starters prior to the season, including 2 of your best overall players...then losing basically your entire starting defense throughout the year in year 1 of trying to implement a completely new defensive system.

Brian Kelly, for being a mere mortal has done a damn good job with Notre Dame football during his tenure here and I hope to see him stay for many years to come!

 

[gkIrish]

Can someone summarize the second half injuries last season? I remember Schmidt and Cody Riggs. Sheldon Day?

 

[ickythump1225]

I was as frustrated last year as anyone... but yeah, it's hard to judge what happened the second half of last year... the thing that made it harder to swallow was year one, two and four of BK along with it...

Here's the thing, ND was in this same spot last year and it fell apart... win at least one between USC and Clemson and avoid the trap/wtf loss and the season is an unquestionable success, even without the injuries... have another complete collapse and lose 4 plus games and idk man... so close, yet seemingly so far, story of BK's ND career thus far.

I'm still scarred from last year, so I'm not completely all in on this year. I'm coming around because I really think this team is so good. I think we're deep, I think we're physical, I think we're talented, and I think the hogs in the trenches to make a deep run.

Yet...last year looms over me like a cloud. I just think about how we were 6-0 and took the defending national champs to the wire and had them beat and then we just collapsed.

 

[PANDFAN]

Can someone summarize the second half injuries last season? I remember Schmidt and Cody Riggs. Sheldon Day?

THOSE + tranquil, barrati, jones, cage had a knee sprain, collinsworth, grace still rehabbing

 

[Irish Insanity]

Te'o4, let's not act like every other team doesn't have similar issues, some with plenty of success.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Can someone summarize the second half injuries last season? I remember Schmidt and Cody Riggs. Sheldon Day?

Schmidt, Cody Riggs, Sheldon Day, Daniel Cage?, Blankenship?, Jarron Jones, Jay Hayes?, I thought there was another lineman and possibly a secondary member that was banged up.

We lost somewhere around 10-11 players for the year by the time we entered the bowl game. If you go back and watch the LSU bowl game, I remember them displaying a graphic with the number of players out. At least, I think i remember that.

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Te'o4, let's not act like every other team doesn't have similar issues, some with plenty of success.

You're high. What schools out there face the same challenges as Notre Damn? Maybe Stanford? At least they have a much more desirable geographical location...Duke? What success are they having in football that trumps ND? Vandy? See same as Duke. Northwestern? See same as Duke and Vandy. Seriously, which program out there has a head coach that has the academic requirement challenges that ND has, has a shitty geographical location, has had as many injuries/suspensions as ND in the past 5 years and had had more success??
As for recruiting, we are not pulling from full talent pool that most of the top level schools are..even if you said 4 out of every 5 football players that can get admitted into Alabama can get admitted into ND, we are still facing a 20% deficit in talent pool, and saying 4 out of every 5 kids that passes academic admission into Bama could do so at ND is a stretch. That doesn't factor in how many of those kids would actually WANT to take on the academic commitment required at ND.

I'll stand by waiting for you list of schools/coaches that have had more success than ND while facing the challenges the head coach at ND does.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Don't stand, have a seat. I'm at work so that list will take some time. While you're waiting, sit back and enjoy our seson, believe in the team, fully support BK. I'll do 2 of those, the 3rd I'll wait for the results of the season.

Some people make excuses in life. Me, I'm not one of those people.

 

[GowerND11]

Schmidt, Cody Riggs, Sheldon Day, Daniel Cage?, Blankenship?, Jarron Jones, Jay Hayes?, I thought there was another lineman and possibly a secondary member that was banged up.

We lost somewhere around 10-11 players for the year by the time we entered the bowl game. If you go back and watch the LSU bowl game, I remember them displaying a graphic with the number of players out. At least, I think i remember that.

Add in the loss of Tony Springman over the summer to Medical Hardship and there's another d-lineman that was lost last year.

 

[anarin]

How is this thread still a thing?

Shouldn't you negative Nancy's wait until Saturday night if they lose? Then you can come in here and say you told everyone so. The lot of you sound like emotionally unstable women that are afraid to commit to a relationship because of a bad break up.

 

[T Town Tommy]

How is this thread still a thing?

Shouldn't you negative Nancy's wait until Saturday night if they lose? Then you can come in here and say you told everyone so. The lot of you sound like emotionally unstable women that are afraid to commit to a relationship because of a bad break up.

Some are holding out waiting on Kelly to put that NC ring on their hand.

 

[gkIrish]

THOSE + tranquil, barrati, jones, cage had a knee sprain, collinsworth, grace still rehabbing

Schmidt, Cody Riggs, Sheldon Day, Daniel Cage?, Blankenship?, Jarron Jones, Jay Hayes?, I thought there was another lineman and possibly a secondary member that was banged up.

We lost somewhere around 10-11 players for the year by the time we entered the bowl game. If you go back and watch the LSU bowl game, I remember them displaying a graphic with the number of players out. At least, I think i remember that.

So basically we are talking about 2 upperclassman impact players (Sheldon Day and Collinsworth) that were scholarship players from the beginning. Is that correct?

 

[tussin]

So basically we are talking about 2 upperclassman impact players (Sheldon Day and Collinsworth) that were scholarship players from the beginning. Is that correct?

Not sure I follow --- Schmidt, Day, Jones, Riggs were all impact players. Others were contributors or key backups.

 

[Wild Bill]

So basically we are talking about 2 upperclassman impact players (Sheldon Day and Collinsworth) that were scholarship players from the beginning. Is that correct?

Why would you categorize them in that manner? Was Riggs less of an impact player for us b/c he transferred into ND rather than playing four years? Was Jones less of an impact player b/c he was an underclassmen?

An impact player or starter is an impact player or starter. When they go down, it stings. I don't care if they are transfers or underclassmen.

Would you rather lose Kizer and Tillery right now or Amir and Chris Brown? I think we all know the answer to that question.

 

[ACamp1900]

quality depth is as much a part of a great defense as play-makers, and ND lost that and then some last year....

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Why would you categorize them in that manner? Was Riggs less of an impact player for us b/c he transferred into ND rather than playing four years? Was Jones less of an impact player b/c he was an underclassmen?

An impact player or starter is an impact player or starter. When they go down, it stings. I don't care if they are transfers or underclassmen.

Would you rather lose Kizer and Tillery right now or Amir and Chris Brown? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Because it supports a certain narrative. There are probably 5 impact players on that list to go along with two impact players that were suspended before the season. Jaylon smith, one of the remaining players was a true sophomore. Our starting ILB at that point was a true FR, we had multiple true and redshirt FR lpaying significant minutes across the DL, Isaac Rochell was a true Soph, Cole Luke was a true Soph. Martini was a frosh. Onwuala was a soph..Redfield was a true Soph...and these were the veterans of the defensive unit at the end of the season. Shumate, Okwara and Farley were the only players with at least 2 fulls years in the program on the field, and all of them were in their 1st in a new system.

 

[gkIrish]

Not sure I follow --- Schmidt, Day, Jones, Riggs were all impact players. Others were contributors or key backups.

Here's my point:

Schmidt was a walk-on. Riggs was a 5th year transfer. Jones was an underclassman.

The fact that we had to rely on guys that can be categorized as "walk-on," "5th year transfer" and "underclassman" is a failure in either recruiting or development or ________ (i.e. failure to keep kids academically qualified).

In other words, we lost 2 guys that we were supposed to rely on in 2014 when they were recruited back in ~2011. All the other failures (transfers away from ND, loss to the NFL) limited our depth so much that we could not recover.

Ultimately there was a failure somewhere along the way when losing 2 upperclassmen on scholarship caused the ship to sink.

 

[ThePiombino]

Why would you categorize them in that manner? Was Riggs less of an impact player for us b/c he transferred into ND rather than playing four years? Was Jones less of an impact player b/c he was an underclassmen?

An impact player or starter is an impact player or starter. When they go down, it stings. I don't care if they are transfers or underclassmen.

Would you rather lose Kizer and Tillery right now or Amir and Chris Brown? I think we all know the answer to that question.

To fit his narrative that BK is single-handedly responsible for the collapse of the 2014 season.

 

[ACamp1900]

wait, a player leaving early to the NFL is a coaching failure???

 

[gkIrish]

wait, a player leaving early to the NFL is a coaching failure???

Depends on the player. Troy Niklas was a failure. Tuitt probably not.

 

[gkIrish]

To fit his narrative that BK is single-handedly responsible for the collapse of the 2014 season.

It sure as hell wasn't the slew of guys who contributed almost nothing pre-injury.