'14 NY OT/SDE Jay Hayes (Notre Dame Signee)

T Town Tommy

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And then Hayes continues to naturally sit the pine the rest of the year, and CFB nation speculates that the 'behind the scenes punishment' was benching him for the year. Keep in mind, CFB nation won't care that Hayes was already not playing.

No thank you 100 times over.

You are missing the point here koon. Who is more important to BK? The player involved or the media that is looking for a story? And again koon - stop worrying about what other people think. The team comes before the CFB nation every time. One half of that nation is going to hate you no matter what and the other half is just looking for a reason to bitch.
 

greyhammer90

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You are missing the point here koon. Who is more important to BK? The player involved or the media that is looking for a story? And again koon - stop worrying about what other people think. The team comes before the CFB nation every time. One half of that nation is going to hate you no matter what and the other half is just looking for a reason to bitch.

The team is more important than the player. If a player says something as selfish and stupid as "I'm just here for the NC then I'm out." he needs to get a little embarrassment and the team needs to know behavior like wont be tolerated. Honestly that's one of the most disappointing things I've read in awhile. If he was a teammate of mine he'd be in my sh*thouse atm.
 

T Town Tommy

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The team is more important than the player. If a player says something as selfish and stupid as "I'm just here for the NC then I'm out." he needs to get a little embarrassment and the team needs to know behavior like wont be tolerated. Honestly that's one of the most disappointing things I've read in awhile. If he was a teammate of mine he'd be in my shithouse atm.

I don't disagree with that. But embarrass him within the settings of the team environment... not in front of the media. Yes... he screwed up. Yes... he hurt his team with his comments. But the process of reconciliation starts with those teammates and coaches... not in front of a microphone with media.
 
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koonja

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You are missing the point here koon. Who is more important to BK? The player involved or the media that is looking for a story? And again koon - stop worrying about what other people think. The team comes before the CFB nation every time. One half of that nation is going to hate you no matter what and the other half is just looking for a reason to bitch.

So how did what BK do hurt the team since that's the perspective you're judging this from?
 

greyhammer90

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I don't disagree with that. But embarrass him within the settings of the team environment... not in front of the media. Yes... he screwed up. Yes... he hurt his team with his comments. But the process of reconciliation starts with those teammates and coaches... not in front of a microphone with media.

Sorry man I just disagree.

The only part of this story that's embarrassing for Jay is what he wrote on Twitter. The punishment isn't embarrassing or harsh, and BK's advice wasn't embarrassing. The media was already asking about the tweets, so the damage was done. Jay acted like a child on Twitter, and people noticed. That's the embarrassing part here, not what BK said.
 

stlnd01

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And then Hayes continues to naturally sit the pine the rest of the year, and CFB nation speculates that the 'behind the scenes punishment' was benching him for the entire year over a stupid tweet. Keep in mind, CFB nation won't care that Hayes was already not playing.

No thank you 100 times over.

That's the thing right?
Kelly says "violation of team rules, handled it in house." Then Hayes doesn't play this week for same reasons he hasn't been playing anyway. Or next week either. And it looks like multi-game suspension for a couple dumb tweets.
I agree it's probably best handled quietly in house. But BK was asked a question and answered honestly. Hard to fault a guy for that.
BK can't win either way.
But I'd bet you Hayes plays tomorrow.
 
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koonja

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My point is everyone and their grandmother thinks ND over punishes. We finally (IMO) under punish. If anything it's a better look for ND than the status quo. I mean he's not even missing a game... But I bet you anything that we don't see any other stupid tweets from Jay this year. So while the punishment was light, it gets the job done. If it doesn't I'll show up to eat my words.
 

Irish#1

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"Violation of team rules."

That always implies it's a relatively minor issue that doesn't have any criminal or university implications. It implies that the punishment is temporary.

Name me one player (other than a superstar) from any school other than ND that you can recall getting suspended for violation of team rules. I can't do it without using Google...

Here's my point said a bit differently. No one outside of the fan base knew who Jay Hayes was before today. Now everyone knows who he is and their entire opinion of him is based on this one incident. Doesn't seem fair to me.

I politely disagree.

First, this wouldn't have even been discussed if he had not gotten on Twitter. Before he posted he knew good and well that what he was going to post would more than likely put him in the hot seat. Sometime in our youth we've all done something knowing there was going to be consequences, but we did it anyway. Then we learned the "life lesson".

Second, ESPN posted this because ND is hot right now and anything that can draw clicks is going to be reported no matter how minor. No one is is interested in reading a pregame report on ND vs. UMass.

Third, this kids reputation isn't going to be tarnished. You contradicted yourself saying you can't name one player not a superstar that got suspended, then you say this non-starters reputation will be tarnished for the rest of his life. You really think fans for UNC, scUM or KSU are going to think differently about him? They'll forget who he is in a couple of weeks. Next year when he has a sack, one of them might say, "Oh I remember him. He got in trouble for posting on Twitter. Ricky Watters and Tony Brooks missed a team meal prior to the USC game. Lou immediately put them on a plane back to South Bend. This was reported in the pregame with his picture on national TV. I don't think it hurt Ricky one bit.

Fourth, as has already been explained, BK handled this the right way. There is no way Kelly would go to the media with this without being asked first. If BK doesn't do something, this sends the wrong message to the team. By disciplining him, the team now has a very clear understanding on the use of Twitter.

A TOUGH LESSON : Brooks and Watters, Suspended by Holtz, Have Returned to the Fold
December 31, 1988|RICHARD HOFFER | Times Staff Writer

The two cooled their heels outside closed doors, waiting for the team to finish its meal. "That was a hard time," Watters said. Holtz appeared and addressed the two. Did he counsel them as a father or as someone truly steamed? "Kind of like a steamed father," Brooks said.

Holtz gave them the punishment, all three of them bound to suffer the consequences, and sent them back to an isolated hotel room, where they apparently drowned their sorrows in cocktail sauce. It was a wonder they could eat, though, their jaws were so slack.

"My mouth dropped," Brooks said. "I thought he'd change his mind. I still think it was pretty harsh, but at the time I thought it was a punishment that didn't fit the crime." He has come around on that, a little. "Something had to be done," he said. "We had to be in sync, on the same page. It's the team concept. It was something he needed to do to set a team example, and he started from the top instead of the bottom."

That, perhaps, is the remarkable part of Holtz's decision. Money, prestige, national ranking were on the line, but Notre Dame had reached this point on a principle of team discipline. The principle wasn't about to be corrupted. And cynics who are normally attracted to attacking Notre Dame--this is not a school shy about advertising its natural goodness--stretched to fathom Holtz's newest scam.

Anyway, Notre Dame won.

But for Brooks and Watters, it remained a tragedy, mollified only by their youth and Notre Dame's bowl bid. They hadn't missed their last game, after all. The shame of it all enveloped them, though. It was so harsh, as a matter of fact, they couldn't really believe Holtz was going to go through with it.

Watters said they were dropped off by a Notre Dame representative at John Wayne Airport, just before kickoff time, and left to themselves in the waiting room. They talked about it with each other and were sure someone would come back with the governor's reprieve.

"We thought they were just making us sweat, making us think about what we had done," Watters said.

No reprieve came, and the two mounted the steps to the airplane, on an outdoor ramp, pausing dramatically at the top. "We stood there and wondered if maybe we should turn around and go back," Watters said.

They finally boarded, flew to Chicago, and watched Notre Dame beat USC, their pictures flashing across the screen from time to time. "To see your pictures up there like criminals . . . , " said Watters, shaking his head.

It was bad, no question, but it got a bit better afterward. It's on the verge of becoming a laughing matter. At a little team ceremony, the week before they left South Bend, the two latecomers were presented with watches. And Holtz has offered a complete dispensation.

"If you can't hug 'em, pat 'em on the back or brag on 'em, you don't want them on your team," Holtz said. He wants Brooks and Watters on his team. "I have a special feeling for Tony Brooks and Ricky Watters," he said. "They're so full of life."

They're pretty good football players, too. But they were always that. It's just now they're on time. "You know how you're still sleepy when the alarm goes off," Watters said, "and you hit that snooze button? No more. I'm out of bed. I wake up in the shower."

As for Brooks, he's really taken the lesson even more to heart. He arrived here a day ahead of the team. "Beat the rush," he said, sensibly. He beat Holtz's, anyway.
 

T Town Tommy

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So how did what BK do hurt the team since that's the perspective you're judging this from?

If an Irish player goes out and does something really stupid or does something major, is BK going to address that with the media? And if he doesn't, then what is Hayes going to think then? More than likely his thoughts would be that the other player received preferential treatment. And those thoughts start to kill a team and can spread like cancer.

You see koon, when you start cherry picking player issues with the media, there is nothing ever good that comes from it. Best to just use the same line we all as fans tend to hate... "it's a team matter and it's being handled internally by the coaching staff."

What Hayes did was wrong. What he did hurt his team. But the only person who should have been speaking in a microphone was Hayes when he was addressing his teammates and telling them that he was sorry for letting them and the coaching staff down.
 
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koonja

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If an Irish player goes out and does something really stupid or does something major, is BK going to address that with the media? And if he doesn't, then what is Hayes going to think then? More than likely his thoughts would be that the other player received preferential treatment. And those thoughts start to kill a team and can spread like cancer.

You see koon, when you start cherry picking player issues with the media, there is nothing ever good that comes from it. Best to just use the same line we all as fans tend to hate... "it's a team matter and it's being handled internally by the coaching staff."

What Hayes did was wrong. What he did hurt his team. But the only person who should have been speaking in a microphone was Hayes when he was addressing his teammates and telling them that he was sorry for letting them and the coaching staff down.

When 100% of the people interested in the situation know 100% of what the punishment was for, there's no sense in trying to mask anything. Everyone knew what the punishment was for because the tweets are public.

Masking the details of WHY the punishment happened (if possible - not here), I agree. Say it's a team violation or some BS like that... Masking how they were punished is not as simple as 'don't ever do it'. Plus the punishment almost always gets out because it's apparent (this one may not have been since Hayes hasn't played, to which I argue letting the masses know we weren't hard on him is).

We've all read way too much into a non issue that will not have an impact on anything going forward, other than the type of pillow Hayes sleeps on for one night.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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This thread doesn't need another comment, pro or con. But whomever stated that Kelly was acting just how the poster's mom and dad would, when he was 10 years old, deserves two awards.

This is the crux of the conversation; and this is exactly how you handle the self-centered self aggrandizing behavior of children, growing into teens. It is about life lessons, and how the world is.

Second, that person deserves an award if their parent was able to stop that parenting strategy when they were ten. Whoever commented was so far ahead of the curve that it was scary. I know a lot of people that still have to do it today with their adult, nearly adult, or ought to be adult children!
 

ndfi78

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If an Irish player goes out and does something really stupid or does something major, is BK going to address that with the media? And if he doesn't, then what is Hayes going to think then? More than likely his thoughts would be that the other player received preferential treatment. And those thoughts start to kill a team and can spread like cancer.

You see koon, when you start cherry picking player issues with the media, there is nothing ever good that comes from it. Best to just use the same line we all as fans tend to hate... "it's a team matter and it's being handled internally by the coaching staff."

What Hayes did was wrong. What he did hurt his team. But the only person who should have been speaking in a microphone was Hayes when he was addressing his teammates and telling them that he was sorry for letting them and the coaching staff down.

He has already, I can't think of an instance where BK was asked about a player and didn't answer, as long as he was able too.
 

greyhammer90

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If an Irish player goes out and does something really stupid or does something major, is BK going to address that with the media? And if he doesn't, then what is Hayes going to think then? More than likely his thoughts would be that the other player received preferential treatment. And those thoughts start to kill a team and can spread like cancer.

You see koon, when you start cherry picking player issues with the media, there is nothing ever good that comes from it. Best to just use the same line we all as fans tend to hate... "it's a team matter and it's being handled internally by the coaching staff."

What Hayes did was wrong. What he did hurt his team. But the only person who should have been speaking in a microphone was Hayes when he was addressing his teammates and telling them that he was sorry for letting them and the coaching staff down.

You're making an assumption that BK usually doesn't disclose minor offenses that lead to reduced playing time. If anything this is consistent with BK's past actions. We knew about Tuitt's situation, George Atkinson's situation, Golson's missing a team meeting, and others. This is the same thing. Your argument is inherently hypocritical because you're saying Jay should get kids gloves.
 
K

koonja

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What would a Bammer know about punishment anyways. #RollToilet

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tN5R3nrdJ1M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

T Town Tommy

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You're making an assumption that BK usually doesn't disclose minor offenses that lead to reduced playing time. If anything this is consistent with BK's past actions. We knew about Tuitt's situation, George Atkinson's situation, Golson's missing a team meeting, and others. This is the same thing. Your argument is inherently hypocritical because you're saying Jay should get kids gloves.

That's not what I am saying at all. He should be dealt with in a manner consistent with BK's past practices for handling these minor situations.

But my concern here is not the actual actions of Hayes - even though they were wrong and he should be addressed. My concern is simply this: is BK going to get up in front of the media and go in to full disclosure if or when a player does something way more serious? The answer is no. I just think BK opens himself up to a lot of criticism down the road by commenting on minor issues and then not commenting on major ones.
 

gkIrish

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You're making an assumption that BK usually doesn't disclose minor offenses that lead to reduced playing time. If anything this is consistent with BK's past actions. We knew about Tuitt's situation, George Atkinson's situation, Golson's missing a team meeting, and others. This is the same thing. Your argument is inherently hypocritical because you're saying Jay should get kids gloves.

How did all those situations work out? Two of them left early and another one transferred.
 

gkIrish

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Correlation =/= causation brah.

I just found it funny that the three examples he used were all guys that left the program prematurely. Obviously not the reason why (except for maybe GAIII)
 

pumpdog20

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BK basically scolded him in public like my parents used to do to try and embarrass me if I misbehaved. Which worked then because I was 10 years old.

So BK is the boss and Jay Hayes is an employee. Doesn't sound like the relationship a coach should have with his players.

Hayes acted like a child, so he got treated like one. Is that what you're saying? If so, I agree.
 

gkIrish

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Hayes acted like a child, so he got treated like one. Is that what you're saying? If so, I agree.

Because only children get frustrated and vent? I must be friends with a lot of children on Facebook.

Immature doesn't necessarily equal childish.
 

PANDFAN

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Guys this isn't really anything different than when Zaire put info out on twitter and BK publicly addressed it...this was a step beyond this in terms of punishment due to the nature of tweet regarding coaches.
 

Cali_domer

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BK basically scolded him in public like my parents used to do to try and embarrass me if I misbehaved. Which worked then because I was 10 years old.

So BK is the boss and Jay Hayes is an employee. Doesn't sound like the relationship a coach should have with his players.

Which was the only thing that made me cringe a bit, with all these lawsuits happening with unions ect ect against the NCAA it perks my ears up with that talk.
 

IrishLion

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I think this entire debate is moot, because the media knew exactly what Hayes did, and knew that BK was punishing him for it.

If BK doesn't answer the question about the obvious tweets that everyone saw, he'd look like a chump.

Now, when it is strictly rumors, and nothing is out in the open? Keep it that way. But in this instance, Jay put it out there, so everyone already knew. Why should BK dance around the issue?
 

pumpdog20

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Because only children get frustrated and vent? I must be friends with a lot of children on Facebook.

Immature doesn't necessarily equal childish.

Um, acting immature does in fact mean your acting like a child.
 

gkIrish

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Um, acting immature does in fact mean your acting like a child.

No. It means you aren't acting like someone should at your age. He's ~20 years old. He acted like someone who is in high school. Not like a 10 year old.
 

ThePiombino

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No. It means you aren't acting like someone should at your age. He's ~20 years old. He acted like someone who is in high school. Not like a 10 year old.
Pretty sure even high school football players know better than to put their coaches on blast via Twitter, so yes - he was acting like a child.
 

Irish#1

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You've given it a good fight GK, but I think it's time to give this one up.
 
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