Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[Fbolt]

I do love this board and the posting drama. Great stuff! I also believe it's hilarious when folks start praising others' analysis. If the poster is so great with their analysis, why the freak is he working retail at WalMart and not coaching? A ton of crank stroking going on. Again-great stuff. lol

 

[connor_in]

So is this the FIRE KELLY thread for 2015?

Didn't realize this was ND Nation's forum

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So is this the FIRE KELLY thread for 2015?

Didn't realize this was ND Nation's forum

How things change in one week...

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

One thing I saw repeatedly today, and I'm interested if anyone else noticed it, is that Johns threw a ton of balls balls off his back foot and completed a ridiculous amount of those throws (a dozen, maybe?). It just seems like even though we weren't getting home, we were making the QB make throws that are usually very low percentage throws. So the fact that he completed so many of these is probably partially bad luck, partially bad coverage, and partially that however good Johns is overall he seemed good at doing that specific thing which is generally suicide for a passer.

I noticed it. The UVa quarterback threw up a bunch of back footed lobs that were all completed. It was eerily similar to a few Denard Robinson games. I was very disappointed in our secondary yesterday, but don't think it will be the norm.

This team is now on their third string QB and RB.
Who knows?
The third string RB looks to be the best of the bunch, maybe Kizer is the same?

 

[Rocket's Rocket Fan]

How things change in one week...

And after a win too...

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Brian Kelly Revisited

There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding these type of threads. I always see 3 types of posters in these:

1) the hateful basher who reacts to a loss or bad break by demanding blood or first born sons from the coaches
VERDICT: ANGRY DRUNK IDIOT

2) the delusional jock sniffer who reacts to a loss or bad break by bashing anyone critical of the staff or players and blindly defending them, even if flaws were apparent
VERDICT: CREEPY CULT FOLLOWER

3) the reasonable poster who supports the team and staff, but will raise questions/concerns when they have one, and do it without being a complete jackass
VERDICT: WHERE WE ALL NEED TO BE

 

[IrishJayhawk]

There seems to be a lot of confusion surrounding these type of threads. I always see 3 types of posters in these:

1) the hateful basher who reacts to a loss or bad break by demanding blood or first born sons from the coaches
VERDICT: ANGRY DRUNK IDIOT

2) the delusional jock sniffer who reacts to a loss or bad break by bashing anyone critical of the staff or players and blindly defending them, even if flaws were apparent
VERDICT: CREEPY CULT FOLLOWER

3) the reasonable poster who supports the team and staff, but will raise questions/concerns when they have one, and do it without being a complete jackass
VERDICT: WHERE WE ALL NEED TO BE

Except that some people in #1 aren't drunk.

I try to be #3, but have shades of #2 when I encounter people in #1.

 

[mgriff]

Do we all remember what it was like before Brian Kelly got here? We'd be lucky to get eight wins a year. Now that we've got that we demand our return to glory, but nothing is guaranteed.

Kelly knows what he's doing. Our defense needs to clean things up and our playcalling needs to improve. I don't want to go back to the Weis/Willingham/Davie years. Brian Kelly is the best coach since Lou and I'm happy we have him.

 

[kmoose]

Especially when Sheldon Day getting penetration has been the only bright spot in our defense besides Jaylon.

Isaac Rochelle has been disruptive in the backfield, often, as well.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Except that some people in #1 aren't drunk.



I try to be #3, but have shades of #2 when I encounter people in #1.

It's a roller coaster regardless, and we all handle the highs and lows differently.

 

[ickythump1225]

Listen, I'm not saying BK should be fired immediately or even that he's not a good coach. I'm saying if we have another season like last year his seat should get warm. At 6 years into your tenure 7-5/8-4 should be unacceptable coming off a 7-5 season.

I know a lot of you said that a lot of Johns completions were off soft lobs off his back foot and that won't always happen. Except that every time we play some noodle armed scrub that does happen, it is a trend. We've been making crappy QBs look like Andrew Luck for a long time. We have about 4 or 5 of these games every season it seems. The difference between the Kelly era and the Weis era is that we win about 2/3 of these games whereas Weis lost almost all of them.

I'm going to highlight Mgriff's post (though I'm not directing this at you, your post is just the latest one before mine):

Do we all remember what it was like before Brian Kelly got here? We'd be lucky to get eight wins a year. Now that we've got that we demand our return to glory, but nothing is guaranteed.

Kelly knows what he's doing. Our defense needs to clean things up and our playcalling needs to improve. I don't want to go back to the Weis/Willingham/Davie years. Brian Kelly is the best coach since Lou and I'm happy we have him.

This is a horrible reason to not move on from a coach. Ron Zook was winning at about the same rate that BK is winning here (2012 excepted) and Florida pulled the trigger on him and found Meyer. Is that a guarantee? No, but nothing in life is guaranteed. Again, I'm not saying that we should fire Kelly, just that if we have another disappointing campaign it should be an option we explore and we shouldn't let fear of the unknown hold us back.

 

[Irish#1]

You guys need to take a nights sleep and quit crying like little bitches. Sorry to be frank, but do you really want to act like losing our qb means throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Do you honestly think that all of these long, elaborate diatribes on why "all is lost" are genius in our drunken stupors?

Chill. Get a nights sleep and take even a smidgen of time to evaluate what happened. Don't go all suicide watch, "fire BK" when we won the fucking game. Act like an adult. Act like we've watched college football before. Did y'all think we would go theough the season without adversity?

It's often better to grab a nights sleep and some coffee before shitting on the entire season two weeks into the schedule.

This is another classic example of ND playing a team on the road they haven't played in a long time. Team and crowd gets amp'd up and play above their typical norm. You may not like it, but it's real and a fact. I also think too many expectations were raised after beating Texas. You can't expect teams to play at that level week in and week out.

I think Kizer will do just fine. His first series wasn't good, but he started getting comfortable after that. The bomb to Fuller is a good example, but before that when he got flushed out to the right and had the foresight to look back and throw the short dump for a first down tells me he's been learning.

What's your take on Day/Trumbetti playing in coverage? My take is I'll help BVG pack his bags if Day is on the field and not rushing the QB.

He wasn't doing it all day. NFL teams do it all the time. It creates something the QB isn't expecting.

I'll be the ring girl for a second: any chance BK dumbs down the playbook for Kizer, and the offense actually thrives because it isn't a cryptic, complicated mess?

*rhetorical question, I'll be weeping next week watching a shell shocked Kizer trying to make 5,876 reads before taking a sack. And I'll take a lap for Wooly and Koon.

BK said after the game they simplified the calls more for Kizer.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think some of you guys have forgotten how bad it was before he got here. BK is a top ten college football coach. We're lucky to have him. The Florida Gators hired Jim McElwain to be there head coach. Change is not always a good thing.

At this point it doesn't matter how bad it was before he got here. He has been here long enough for us to expect better. Mediocrity is not ok with me. And with the exception of 1 year of a D loaded with NFL talent, that's what we have been

8–5
8–5
12–1
9–4
8–5

One of these things is doing its own thing. One of these things is not like the others.

.

 

[gkIrish]

Do we all remember what it was like before Brian Kelly got here? We'd be lucky to get eight wins a year. Now that we've got that we demand our return to glory, but nothing is guaranteed.

Kelly knows what he's doing. Our defense needs to clean things up and our playcalling needs to improve. I don't want to go back to the Weis/Willingham/Davie years. Brian Kelly is the best coach since Lou and I'm happy we have him.

Yes I do. I also remember what it was like before that thanks to the miracle of the Internet. Just because Charlie/Ty/Bob were terrible doesn't mean we have to settle for being an 8 win team every year.

Does he really know what he is doing if we have spent the last 3 years complaining about these two things you pointed out? Defense hasn't shown improvement. Playcalling is still bad. The SAME problems happen every game against the SAME bad teams. We are consistently outcoached in the locker room at half time.

 

[Corry]

No, no, no, no.....they now have two people blocking Joe Schmidt which is a mismatch and they now have a 300 lb LB trying to cover crossing routes. It was done at three times I saw an never resulted in anything better than Day rushing. You liinebup and beat your man. This isn't the NFL

Admittedly I didn't watch the whole game because I was at work. The one play I saw Day drop resulted in a KR sack.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Admittedly I didn't watch the whole game because I was at work. The one play I saw Day drop resulted in a KR sack.

Consider yourself lucky. You saw the one play it worked.

 

[kmoose]

Yes I do. I also remember what it was like before that thanks to the miracle of the Internet. Just because Charlie/Ty/Bob were terrible doesn't mean we have to settle for being an 8 win team every year.

Does he really know what he is doing if we have spent the last 3 years complaining about these two things you pointed out? Defense hasn't shown improvement. Playcalling is still bad. The SAME problems happen every game against the SAME bad teams. We are consistently outcoached in the locker room at half time.

I don't mean to call you out, particularly, but you made the statement, so I quoted you. Allow me to introduce everyone to the difference between emotional overreaction, and reality. Emotionally, we are all tired of not being a dominant team that puts teams away early, middling, and late. However, the idea that we have been consistently outcoached at halftime is simply not supported by the numbers. In the Brian Kelly era, ND has won the second half, EVERY year. And we've won the 3rd Q specifically, EVERY year as well:

Second Half Scoring

2010: ND 137, Opp 126
2011: ND 173, Opp 135
2012: ND 161, Opp 63
2013: ND 181, Opp 126
2014: ND 196, Opp 93

3rd Q Scoring

2010: ND 89, Opp 55
2011: ND 91, Opp 16
2012: ND 71, Opp 24
2013: ND 86, Opp 53
2014: ND 87, Opp 76

So the reality of it is that ND has outscored their opponents in the 2nd half, each and every season that Kelly has been here.

 

[wizards8507]

Do we all remember what it was like before Brian Kelly got here? We'd be lucky to get eight wins a year. Now that we've got that we demand our return to glory, but nothing is guaranteed.

I refuse to accept that "better than Charlie Weis" is the standard of success at Notre Dame.

 

[Luckylucci]

To be fair, we are 2-0 and technically the backup lead us to a game winning drive of 83 yards with under 2 minutes to go.

I believe we'll drop at least 3 too now, but BK gets the benefit of the doubt. It's not his fault Malik is out.

He's partially at fault the team looked like shit to a bad team before that, right? Yesterday should have been a rout. UCLA isn't THAT good but they made UVA look real bad. We made them look like all stars. Malik was healthy and we couldn't figure shit out. Malik was absolutely aweful yesterday. Why do never seem prepared for what teams are going to do. I don't have the answers, but it's easy to see that's it's not working. Being 2-0 against these teams is a must not an accomplishment. It starts with the hire of BVG, IMO. I never liked the hire and still don't.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I refuse to accept that "better than Charlie Weis" is the standard of success at Notre Dame.

I do think it's reasonable to think that it will come in tiers for an institution like Notre Dame. It takes several years of being very good before you bump into the next category up, i.e., averaging 10 wins instead of 8-9.

I also think the QB situation has been crazy unique here. It started with Crist being terrible. With odd timing on transfers, academic stuff, and injuries (e.g., Kiel, Golson, Zaire), I think the program has literally (not literally) been hit by lightning about 3-4 times.

 

[EddytoNow]

Kiser comes in and throws a game-winning touchdown pass. What is not to like about that? We've come a long way from the dear-in-the-headlights look of Dayne Christ. Kiser was composed and confident. To me that says that Kelly had him ready to play.

Malik's injury was not due to Longo or any of the coaches. If you watched it on replay, the ankle got caught under the pile. Notre Dame is cursed with bad luck, and winning 11-12 games or a national championship requires a lot of luck (no key injuries, lucky bounces, etc.) Unfortunately, Notre Dame has not expererienced any good luck lately.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

He's partially at fault the team looked like shit to a bad team before that, right? Yesterday should have been a rout. UCLA isn't THAT good but they made UVA look real bad. We made them look like all stars. Malik was healthy and we couldn't figure shit out. Malik was absolutely aweful yesterday. Why do never seem prepared for what teams are going to do. I don't have the answers, but it's easy to see that's it's not working. Being 2-0 against these teams is a must not an accomplishment. It starts with the hire of BVG, IMO. I never liked the hire and still don't.

We only gained 40 fewer yards than UCLA did. I know they likely called off the dogs late in the game, but we moved the ball like crazy, even with Malik missing on a lot of throws. It really came down to 3rd down and the red zone. We were very bad on those two aspects of the game. But we had 460 yards of offense.

 

[gkIrish]

I don't mean to call you out, particularly, but you made the statement, so I quoted you. Allow me to introduce everyone to the difference between emotional overreaction, and reality. Emotionally, we are all tired of not being a dominant team that puts teams away early, middling, and late. However, the idea that we have been consistently outcoached at halftime is simply not supported by the numbers. In the Brian Kelly era, ND has won the second half, EVERY year. And we've won the 3rd Q specifically, EVERY year as well:

Second Half Scoring

2010: ND 137, Opp 126
2011: ND 173, Opp 135
2012: ND 161, Opp 63
2013: ND 181, Opp 126
2014: ND 196, Opp 93

3rd Q Scoring

2010: ND 89, Opp 55
2011: ND 91, Opp 16
2012: ND 71, Opp 24
2013: ND 86, Opp 53
2014: ND 87, Opp 76

So the reality of it is that ND has outscored their opponents in the 2nd half, each and every season that Kelly has been here.

That's useful information, but simplistic. For instance, let's look at 2014.

In the 5 losses, here are the second half scores:

Florida St. 21, ND 10
ASU 21, ND 21
Northwestern 24, ND 13
ND 22, Louisville 14
USC 14, ND 7

So in 3 of the 5 losses we were outscored in the second half. Navy also outscored us in the second half last year. So in 4 of 11 games, ND was outscored in the second half. Are we okay with that? Is that a percentage that an elite coach should be at?

I'll admit I was surprised to see those numbers so I will definitely back down on my half time adjustment stance as the evidence generally does not support it.

See, this isn't that hard people. Provide some SUBSTANTIVE information and let's have a real conversation.

 

[Luckylucci]

We only gained 40 fewer yards than UCLA did. I know they likely called off the dogs late in the game, but we moved the ball like crazy, even with Malik missing on a lot of throws. It really came down to 3rd down and the red zone. We were very bad on those two aspects of the game. But we had 460 yards of offense.

WTF do yards have to do with anything, that's the point. We can't execute enough to score TD's. Sorry bro poor excuse for a rebuttal. Most importantly our D once again can't stop a pathetic offense. That's on BK because he hired and bought in to this guy

 

[IrishJayhawk]

WTF do yards have to do with anything, that's the point. We can't execute enough to score TD's. Sorry bro poor excuse for a rebuttal. Most importantly our D once again can't stop a pathetic offense. That's on BK because he hired and bought in to this guy

We also scored the same number of points that UCLA did.

 

[Luckylucci]

The peak of my loathe for BVG happened last night when our best defender, Jaylon Smith, is running across the formation at the snap at the same time as Tranquill and they run into each other. Which in turn, produces an easy first down for UVA. If it's that Fucking confusing then maybe you shouldn't run it. Players running around like chickens with their head cutoff. Mad scientist doesn't work for me. I really hope I'm wrong on this but I've been saying that for quite a few games now.

 

[Luckylucci]

We also scored the same number of points that UCLA did.

So what part of defense has to do with this? At what point is that on the HC? This is t difficult to understand. UCLA made them look irrelevant and we had to have a 4th and forever TD to win. Haha, justifications don't work here

 

[irishff1014]

The peak of my loathe for BVG happened last night when our best defender, Jaylon Smith, is running across the formation at the snap at the same time as Tranquill and they run into each other. Which in turn, produces an easy first down for UVA. If it's that Fucking confusing then maybe you shouldn't run it. Players running around like chickens with their head cutoff. Mad scientist doesn't work for me. I really hope I'm wrong on this but I've been saying that for quite a few games now.

Yes!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

So what part of defense has to do with this? At what point is that on the HC? This is t difficult to understand. UCLA made them look irrelevant and we had to have a 4th and forever TD to win. Haha, justifications don't work here

I'm not defending the defense at all. You made some comments about Malik and the offense. We moved the ball very well and scored as many points as UCLA, even while Malik wasn't playing that well. I also noted that we were very bad in the red zone and on 3rd down.

 

[ThePiombino]

I'm not defending the defense at all. You made some comments about Malik and the offense. We moved the ball very well and scored as many points as UCLA, even while Malik wasn't playing that well. I also noted that we were very bad in the red zone and on 3rd down.

I don't think this is an unfair assessment at all.