Tom Brady Appeal

irishfan

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Started this morning at 9:30. It may not be thread-worthy right away, but this could end up being a massive sports story if Brady takes Goodell to court. The appeal will either finish up today or on Thursday if more time is needed. Goodell then is supposed to make his decision as quickly as possible, but that could take a couple of weeks. I wish it were televised, but the whole thing is recorded and I imagine there will be some good exchanges between Brady's lawyer, Kessler, and Ted Wells.

Anyone have any predictions? Most analysts seem to be predicting a reduction to 2 games, but Wells' presence at the appeal is interesting. I think Goodell is either going all-in on the 4-game suspension or is setting up Wells to be the fall guy when he overturns it completely.
 
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irishfan

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I know what you're hoping for! lol

I'm assuming the rest of the NFL is hoping for some sort of hanging in a public square haha. 2 games wouldn't be terrible...I would probably accept that although I'm obviously hoping for 0. It will be interesting to see what happens. Going to court means Brady will have to show texts/emails, but I believe that Goodell/Wells will as well.
 

IrishLion

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I'm assuming the rest of the NFL is hoping for some sort of hanging in a public square haha. 2 games wouldn't be terrible...I would probably accept that although I'm obviously hoping for 0. It will be interesting to see what happens. Going to court means Brady will have to show texts/emails, but I believe that Goodell/Wells will as well.

Wouldn't they have operated knowing that was a possibility when this all started?

"Hey Roger, we might have some evidence, but if Brady appeals, it could go all the way to the justice system."

"Yeah, you're right. Don't say anything stupid electronically. Only in person."
 

irishfan

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Wouldn't they have operated knowing that was a possibility when this all started?

"Hey Roger, we might have some evidence, but if Brady appeals, it could go all the way to the justice system."

"Yeah, you're right. Don't say anything stupid electronically. Only in person."

Very likely, yes. However, there were a lot of other NFL employees involved (guys like Kensil stalking the sidelines, Blandino who said it wasn't a sting, etc.) who I believe would also have to hand over information. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something in a text/email even from someone not in the forefront that could make the whole league look bad.
 

irishfan

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A legal analysis of Tom Brady's Deflategate appeal - NFL - SI.com

Good article from the SI sports attorney about what to expect during and after the appeal.

Goodell is hard to predict, but if I had a crystal ball, I predict that Goodell will lower Brady’s suspension to one game and that Brady will not challenge it in court. Neither Goodell nor Brady wants to go to court. Consider the NFL’s position. Evidence continues to emerge suggesting that Deflategate is a story about atmospheric conditions rather than human misconduct. This is particularly worrisome for the NFL given that the league’s severe punishment of the Patriots is premised on Deflategate being about human misconduct. For his part, Brady seems unwilling to share text and emails that could surface in a legal challenge. Brady would also risk losing in court. A loss would give his critics new material to attack him and would be part of his legacy.

A reduced suspension to one-game seems like a compromise that would work for all involved.
 
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irishfan

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SCHEFTER: TOM BRADY ENDS UP IN COURT
Adam Schefter told Mike & Mike: "One way or another, that's where we are taking this, unless the four game suspension is completely pulled back and overturned and I don't think that's going to happen." (via Mike & Mike)

via ESPN.com

Schefter is plugged in on both sides, so this is probably as good of a source as any.
 

IrishLion

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If it goes to court, I'm extremely excited to see what Tommy Boy is hiding in that phone about the situation.

Also, I'm excited to see Goodel look like a fool, but that's all the time.
 

irishfan

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If it goes to court, I'm extremely excited to see what Tommy Boy is hiding in that phone about the situation.

Also, I'm excited to see Goodel look like a fool, but that's all the time.

If he takes it to court, I don't think he has anything incriminating on the phone. It feels like Goodell/Brady are just playing a game of chicken with one another, each calling each other's bluff so far.

People think Brady will accept a 1 or 2 game punishment, but, if he's got nothing on that phone then he really shouldn't. Any suspension accepted by Brady means he's guilty. If he actually goes to federal court....then he may not be innocent fully, but he and his lawyers know that there really is no smoking gun on the phone....and I think in that case it could eventually be the end of Goodell. I know the owners love him for the money he brings in, but I don't think he's the only man capable of running the NFL...and he constantly messes up punishments and other PR issues.
 

nlroma1o

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Any idea when we will know anything from the appeal today? This is really delaying my ability to mock draft accurately.
 

irishfan

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Any idea when we will know anything from the appeal today? This is really delaying my ability to mock draft accurately.

Very unlikely to hear anything before Friday at the earliest. I think Hardy still hasn't heard back regarding his appeal from a couple weeks ago. Goodell has no deadline.
 

irishfan

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Was told by person in today's appeal that Tom Brady's greatest ally was...Tom Brady. Offered explanations in all areas. Now up to Goodell.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/613514520363986944">June 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

No details of the hearing were immediately available but a source told ESPN's Adam Schefter that "Tom Brady's greatest ally today was Tom Brady."

Sources also told Schefter that Brady came off as very genuine, earnest, and persuasive, addressing every issue raised in the league-sanctioned Wells report.

One of the sources called it "an A+ performance."

Patriots owner Bob Kraft, who is on a trip to Israel with a group of Pro Football Hall of Famers, sent a sworn affidavit backing Brady. One source said the affidavit was very compelling, and had "almost a holy feel to it".

Appeal hearing for New England Patriots QB Tom Brady ends after 10 hours of testimony
 
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Irish#1

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Was told by person in today's appeal that Tom Brady's greatest ally was...Tom Brady. Offered explanations in all areas. Now up to Goodell.</p>— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) <a href="https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/613514520363986944">June 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Appeal hearing for New England Patriots QB Tom Brady ends after 10 hours of testimony

Duh Mr. Obvious. What did he expect? Brady to throw himself on the mercy of Roger Dodger and say, Yes, Yes, I did it. I asked to two knuckleheads to take air out of my balls. I'm sorry, please have leniency on me.
 

Rhode Irish

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If it goes to court, I'm extremely excited to see what Tommy Boy is hiding in that phone about the situation.

Also, I'm excited to see Goodel look like a fool, but that's all the time.

People keep saying this about his phone. That won't be part of a judicial procedure. A legal action brought by Brady would challenge his suspension on technical and procedural grounds. They will not re-conduct an investigation, so the likelihood of Brady complying with a discovery request for his personal communications is minimal since it would not be relevant to the proceedings.
 

irishfan

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Exploring NFL’s inconsistent reactions to erroneous ESPN reports | ProFootballTalk

I was occupied with other matters when the minor skirmish emerged regarding whether Tom Brady was limited to four hours in presenting his case during Tuesday’s appeal hearing. To summarize, Adam Schefter of ESPN reported that the four-hour limitation applied, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello promptly tweeted a contradiction, Schefter released the memo suggesting the four-hour limit, and then the case entailed 10 hours of testimony.

Despite the contents of the memo, the league’s version ended up being accurate. But that’s not the point of this blurb. The point is that: (1) ESPN reported something the NFL believed to be inaccurate; and (2) the NFL immediately responded.

So let’s go back to January 20. On that day, Chris Mortensen of ESPN reported that 11 of 12 Patriots footballs used in the AFC title game were measured at a full two pounds under the 12.5 PSI minimum. It was a blatantly false report, but to this day many still believe it to be true.

In response, the NFL uttered not a peep, anywhere. No press release. No tweet from one of the many P.R. employees who work for the NFL. No leak to one of the many journalists who work for the NFL.

The disparity between today’s rapid-fire disagreement with Schefter’s procedural nuance and January’s silence in response to Mortensen’s critical factual assertion is stunning. And it lends credence to the belief that the NFL deliberately leaked false information in order to pin the Patriots against ropes that simply weren’t there.


If Aiello or anyone else from the NFL had responded swiftly to Mortensen’s erroneous report with the true numbers, which were measured by two significantly conflicting pressure gauges, the Patriots would have been able to shout down the readings by explaining the application of the Ideal Gas Law, the mainstream news media never would have paid serious attention to the situation, and Ted Wells never would have been called in to conduct an investigation that by all appearances was aimed at reaching a predetermined result.

The failure to rebut Mortensen’s report therefore bolsters the idea the entire episode was indeed orchestrated to catch the Patriots doing something, even if it’s still not clear what they did.

And Ted Wells investigated none of that. Even though Commissioner Roger Goodell has publicly claimed that Wells did.

Let’s be clear on this: Wells definitely didn’t investigate the leak to Mortensen. Let’s be even more clear: Someone definitely should.

Florio is a hack, but no one would ever accuse him of being pro-Patriots by any means. This goes along with what Patriots fans have been saying from the start with the leaks from the NFL.
 

IrishLax

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The leaks of Tom Brady doing so great in his appeal are all from Tom Brady's side, because it paints Goodell into a corner.

In other news, it's been crystal clear since Kraft accepted the penalties that the deal was the Patriots take their sanctions and Goodell would lift the penalties on Brady. He's going to walk.
 

Irish YJ

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The leaks of Tom Brady doing so great in his appeal are all from Tom Brady's side, because it paints Goodell into a corner.

In other news, it's been crystal clear since Kraft accepted the penalties that the deal was the Patriots take their sanctions and Goodell would lift the penalties on Brady. He's going to walk.

I don't think he'll walk. I think he'll see a reduction to 2 or 1 game.
His level of cooperation alone warrants 1 game. I don't see Goodell coming out and declaring Tom to be completely innocent either. The common sense factor alone is just too much. Balls don't get deflated without the QB knowing. And a ball handler doesn't get to be known as the deflator if he aint deflating.. lol.
 

wizards8507

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His level of cooperation alone warrants 1 game. I don't see Goodell coming out and declaring Tom to be completely innocent either. The common sense factor alone is just too much. Balls don't get deflated without the QB knowing. And a ball handler doesn't get to be known as the deflator if he aint deflating.. lol.
The only plausible deniability I see is the story they told about the referees sometimes over-inflating the balls to something like 16 PSI. That speaks more to official incompetence than intentional malfeasance.
 

Rack Em

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I don't think he'll walk. I think he'll see a reduction to 2 or 1 game.
His level of cooperation alone warrants 1 game. I don't see Goodell coming out and declaring Tom to be completely innocent either. The common sense factor alone is just too much. Balls don't get deflated without the QB knowing. And a ball handler doesn't get to be known as the deflator if he aint deflating.. lol.

Don't you dare talk about ACamp's mom like that! She's a nice lady!
 

irishfan

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I don't think he'll walk. I think he'll see a reduction to 2 or 1 game.
His level of cooperation alone warrants 1 game. I don't see Goodell coming out and declaring Tom to be completely innocent either. The common sense factor alone is just too much. Balls don't get deflated without the QB knowing. And a ball handler doesn't get to be known as the deflator if he aint deflating.. lol.

The texts are very damning, I agree there. The footballs for the Pats/Colts game were not improperly deflated though according to every scientist out there besides attorney Ted Wells.

Brady not handing over his phone should have been a fine like what Favre got when he refused.

The ball guy going into the bathroom plus the damning texts should have been a loss of mid-late draft pick and team fine. Obviously if the footballs had been proven to be deflated then I would think higher penalties should have been warranted. It is very hard to justify the current penalties when all you have is questionable activity without any proof of rule-breaking.

The NFL letting the Mort false report run wild + Patriots general success over the last 15 years made this whole thing blow up more than it ever should have.
 
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Irish#1

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I don't think he'll walk. I think he'll see a reduction to 2 or 1 game.
His level of cooperation alone warrants 1 game. I don't see Goodell coming out and declaring Tom to be completely innocent either. The common sense factor alone is just too much. Balls don't get deflated without the QB knowing. And a ball handler doesn't get to be known as the deflator if he aint deflating.. lol.

Agree, I think RG set it at four to give him wiggle room to reduce and not lose face.
 

Rhode Irish

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The leaks of Tom Brady doing so great in his appeal are all from Tom Brady's side, because it paints Goodell into a corner.

In other news, it's been crystal clear since Kraft accepted the penalties that the deal was the Patriots take their sanctions and Goodell would lift the penalties on Brady. He's going to walk.

I'm not sure which of these I disagree with because they are both reasonable in their own rights, but it seems to me that you don't need both. If the fix is in on the appeal, why would you need to paint Goodell into a corner? I want to believe that Kraft wouldn't fall on his sword just for the "good of the League" and he got something for Brady in return for accepting that absurd punishment, but I'm not convinced that he wouldn't.
 

Irish Insanity

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I think he misses at least 1 game. Reasoning they'll give will be because he wasn't initially cooperative. As far as the Pats accepting their sanctions, wasn't it similar to lack of institutional control. It was happening and they should've been aware and stopped it
 

Irish#1

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Heard yesterday that Brady was offered the opportunity to print the text messages if he didn't want to hand over his phone, but refused. Hmmmmmm....
 
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