Recruiting constipation

[Irish#1]

Some of you act like if a 7 win team beats an 11 win team during the regular season than they are the better program. It just means that one team was better than the other on that particular day. I look at the entire body of work.

And for those who think the big ten is so weak, didn't we just lose to Northwestern last season? Hasn't lowly Purdue given us all we can handle lately? 11 wins in 4 out of 5 years. Rose Bowl and Cotton bowl victories. That's not smoke and morrors. I don't care as much about head to head victories as much as season records. I'll bet the recruits don't either at the end of the season.

GO SPARTY!

 

[PANDFAN]

COACH D'S OPINION ON THE MATTER

COACH D'S OPINION ON THE MATTER

I'll answer it again, that's not a problem. Notre Dame was late to the party with too many recruits, even in regions where they have the same coach as before, so the whole "new coach" excuse can't be used. They are not as engaged with social media as they need to be (although to their credit they are beginning to improve in this area). They put too much emphasis on national recruiting at the expense of regional recruiting (outside of the OL). They have been late with offers. They show no awareness of the recruiting landscape of many prospects, leaving them late to answer challenges, late to make their push and late to get out offers. How many times have we seen ND either offer a kid right after he's committed, right after releasing a Top 10 without them in it and right before a kid commits somewhere else? This is always going to happen, but when its to the degree it has been with ND in this cycle, it shows they aren't where they need to be.

An example of an issue in the Midwest is the slow-playing of a guy like Khalid Kareem and then, months later, offering a guy like Tomon Fox. Fox is the same kind of player as Kareem, a SDE who is about power and not about speed. But while ND had a great shot at one point with Kareem, by the time they got on Fox he was flattered by the offer but still listed UNC and Tennessee as his top schools. Could they get him still? Maybe. But why not go harder after the kid from your backyard with an offer from Harvard? I get there are always extenuating circumstances, but this shows

Notre Dame is also consistently mentioned as a school that kids are interested in, which is great, but also as the school kids know the least about and often times the school many kids have the least amount of contact with. I'm all for the nationwide blitz in regards to evaluating players, but you can't see a kid, love on him in the moment, and then not follow up. That's happening far too often, and the reason is often a lack of organization in place to follow up. It doesn't always come from the coaches. That's also where the support staff can play a major role, but coaches also have to be more engaged. Seeing the nation is great, but spreading yourself too thin is not good. Also, I'm not someone who believes ND has to talk to a kid every single day. But with many kids it needs to be a lot more than what it is now. They also still need work with their tandem recruiting, which is better in some areas but not where it needs to be. That I expect to improve as the staff gets more used to each other. But we have heard way too many times about how Notre Dame is the school kids know the least about or hear the least from, despite ND having offered well before the time we hear those things. People want to dismiss that, but what fans think about a kid's recruitment doesn't matter, it only matters what the kids think. And this dismissive notion about only players who want attention or are me guys do that, bull. Knowing who you are playing for and trusting them is a big, big part of recruiting, whether you are a me guy or a team guy.

There are too many offers going out to defensive players who are situational guys.

There is way too much emphasis on seeing guys in person. It's great to do that, and with some players you need to do that. I'm all for the staff wanting to see some of these Plan B QB's throw in person. But far too many of these players they are waiting to see in person are guys that you know can play. This isn't like scouting for the NFL Draft, where guys can't make decisions before you see them and you know the end game for everyone. If you put too much emphasis on seeing guys in person and making personal offers you end up having what has been happening, they are way too late with too many players. If a guy is marginal, wait, don't offer a guy if there is doubt in your mind. But waiting to offer a guy so one coach can do it in person is fine if you know that guy loves ND, but unless that guy is already a lean or already favors you very much, get the offer out ASAP.

There is also a lack of consistency and cohesiveness. You have one guy getting an offer and then another guy, of equal talent not getting one. In some situations there are reasons, but for example, why does Paris Ford not have an offer yet? There is little reason why when everything we hear is that he is liked. This is going on in many instances, just no consistency. Also, the cohesiveness piece is key. You have assistant coaches telling guys offers are coming and giving timelines. "You should have an offer within a week," or something like that. It happens a lot. Then the offer doesn't come for over a month. Say what you want about how a 17 or 18-year old should respond to that, the reality is most won't respond well at all. If one coach promises a kid an offer is going to come soon, the coach responsible for okaying the offer should prioritize that kid's evaluation and make sure he backs his fellow assistants play. Otherwise, stop making those promises.

But this also plays into what I discussed before about not being aware of where a kid is and not being aware of what is being used against you. It is important that ND understand what their recruiting rivals are doing. Not just from a pitch standpoint, but from a push standpoint. You have to know what your competitors are doing, and that is where communication between the coaches and the support staff has to be highly on point. They aren't doing enough work to be on the same page and to have all the information they need in my opinion.

I've also talked before about the lack of visits with Midwestern kids. The number of times programs like OSU and MSU are getting kids on campus compared to ND is disappointing to say the least.

That's off the top of my head

 

[Irish Storm]

It's so freaking annoying. We lost all of our momentum as a program from the Alabama game and ever since. We can leap frog back over MSU but we have to get our momentum back.

 

[Irish Storm]

I'll answer it again, that's not a problem. Notre Dame was late to the party with too many recruits, even in regions where they have the same coach as before, so the whole "new coach" excuse can't be used. They are not as engaged with social media as they need to be (although to their credit they are beginning to improve in this area). They put too much emphasis on national recruiting at the expense of regional recruiting (outside of the OL). They have been late with offers. They show no awareness of the recruiting landscape of many prospects, leaving them late to answer challenges, late to make their push and late to get out offers. How many times have we seen ND either offer a kid right after he's committed, right after releasing a Top 10 without them in it and right before a kid commits somewhere else? This is always going to happen, but when its to the degree it has been with ND in this cycle, it shows they aren't where they need to be.

An example of an issue in the Midwest is the slow-playing of a guy like Khalid Kareem and then, months later, offering a guy like Tomon Fox. Fox is the same kind of player as Kareem, a SDE who is about power and not about speed. But while ND had a great shot at one point with Kareem, by the time they got on Fox he was flattered by the offer but still listed UNC and Tennessee as his top schools. Could they get him still? Maybe. But why not go harder after the kid from your backyard with an offer from Harvard? I get there are always extenuating circumstances, but this shows

Notre Dame is also consistently mentioned as a school that kids are interested in, which is great, but also as the school kids know the least about and often times the school many kids have the least amount of contact with. I'm all for the nationwide blitz in regards to evaluating players, but you can't see a kid, love on him in the moment, and then not follow up. That's happening far too often, and the reason is often a lack of organization in place to follow up. It doesn't always come from the coaches. That's also where the support staff can play a major role, but coaches also have to be more engaged. Seeing the nation is great, but spreading yourself too thin is not good. Also, I'm not someone who believes ND has to talk to a kid every single day. But with many kids it needs to be a lot more than what it is now. They also still need work with their tandem recruiting, which is better in some areas but not where it needs to be. That I expect to improve as the staff gets more used to each other. But we have heard way too many times about how Notre Dame is the school kids know the least about or hear the least from, despite ND having offered well before the time we hear those things. People want to dismiss that, but what fans think about a kid's recruitment doesn't matter, it only matters what the kids think. And this dismissive notion about only players who want attention or are me guys do that, bull. Knowing who you are playing for and trusting them is a big, big part of recruiting, whether you are a me guy or a team guy.

There are too many offers going out to defensive players who are situational guys.

There is way too much emphasis on seeing guys in person. It's great to do that, and with some players you need to do that. I'm all for the staff wanting to see some of these Plan B QB's throw in person. But far too many of these players they are waiting to see in person are guys that you know can play. This isn't like scouting for the NFL Draft, where guys can't make decisions before you see them and you know the end game for everyone. If you put too much emphasis on seeing guys in person and making personal offers you end up having what has been happening, they are way too late with too many players. If a guy is marginal, wait, don't offer a guy if there is doubt in your mind. But waiting to offer a guy so one coach can do it in person is fine if you know that guy loves ND, but unless that guy is already a lean or already favors you very much, get the offer out ASAP.

There is also a lack of consistency and cohesiveness. You have one guy getting an offer and then another guy, of equal talent not getting one. In some situations there are reasons, but for example, why does Paris Ford not have an offer yet? There is little reason why when everything we hear is that he is liked. This is going on in many instances, just no consistency. Also, the cohesiveness piece is key. You have assistant coaches telling guys offers are coming and giving timelines. "You should have an offer within a week," or something like that. It happens a lot. Then the offer doesn't come for over a month. Say what you want about how a 17 or 18-year old should respond to that, the reality is most won't respond well at all. If one coach promises a kid an offer is going to come soon, the coach responsible for okaying the offer should prioritize that kid's evaluation and make sure he backs his fellow assistants play. Otherwise, stop making those promises.

But this also plays into what I discussed before about not being aware of where a kid is and not being aware of what is being used against you. It is important that ND understand what their recruiting rivals are doing. Not just from a pitch standpoint, but from a push standpoint. You have to know what your competitors are doing, and that is where communication between the coaches and the support staff has to be highly on point. They aren't doing enough work to be on the same page and to have all the information they need in my opinion.

I've also talked before about the lack of visits with Midwestern kids. The number of times programs like OSU and MSU are getting kids on campus compared to ND is disappointing to say the least.

That's off the top of my head

Thank you for this insightful and informative post. It seems that my thread has merit after all. But who cares what I think since apparently I'm just a 'troll'

 

[PANDFAN]

Thank you for this insightful and informative post. It seems that my thread has merit after all. But who cares what I think since apparently I'm just a 'troll'

this was STRICTLY COACH D'S opinion and thoughts...i just copied it because i respect his opinion very much and he is of course a HELL of a lot closer to the situation than almost anyone on this board

 

[Luckylucci]

Thank you for this insightful and informative post. It seems that my thread has merit after all. But who cares what I think since apparently I'm just a 'troll'

I think the reason people don't care what you think is because instead of posting solutions or ways to fix the problems (there are problems, we all get it), you incessantly bitch or complain. Usually stating the same exact thing. The reality is nobody besides you would want to read the same thing over and over again. But I'm sure of the top of your head you could tell us all how many wins MSU has and what those scores were again. Or maybe remind us of their bowl victories. Constant complaining will get you no where fast around here. Be constructive, come up with solutions, etc.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think the reason people don't care what you think is because instead of posting solutions or ways to fix the problems (there are problems, we all get it), you incessantly bitch or complain. Usually stating the same exact thing. The reality is nobody besides you would want to read the same thing over and over again. But I'm sure of the top of your head you could tell us all how many wins MSU has and what those scores were again. Or maybe remind us of their bowl victories. Constant complaining will get you no where fast around here. Be constructive, come up with solutions, etc.

Seems like a Koon debate. Is this the reincarnation?

 

[Irish Storm]

I think the reason people don't care what you think is because instead of posting solutions or ways to fix the problems (there are problems, we all get it), you incessantly bitch or complain. Usually stating the same exact thing. The reality is nobody besides you would want to read the same thing over and over again. But I'm sure of the top of your head you could tell us all how many wins MSU has and what those scores were again. Or maybe remind us of their bowl victories. Constant complaining will get you no where fast around here. Be constructive, come up with solutions, etc.

That's fair.

 

[PANDFAN]

That's fair.

best piece of advice on posting is NOT to be known as the guy who posts only xyz...unless you post a lot of half naked pics of beautiful babes...then its ok

 

[connor_in]

best piece of advice on posting is NOT to be known as the guy who posts only xyz...unless you post a lot of half naked pics of beautiful babes...then its ok

...you rang?....


By the way, I post those AND funny pics...in different threads

PS...whose da knew gurl pix 4 u?

 

[PANDFAN]

...you rang?....


By the way, I post those AND funny pics...in different threads

PS...whose da knew gurl pix 4 u?

check my new thread of avi pics...she is the 1st one

 

[Irish#1]

As mentioned, that's Coach D's opinion. The staff could have a very good reason for not offering one of two who are almost identical is size and skill. Could be grades, attitude, their background, medical history, etc..

It could be that the coaches had reached out in one form or another and found there is no interest in ND or the kid is a 98% lock for another school.

 

[Irish#1]

I think the reason people don't care what you think is because instead of posting solutions or ways to fix the problems (there are problems, we all get it), you incessantly bitch or complain. Usually stating the same exact thing. The reality is nobody besides you would want to read the same thing over and over again. But I'm sure of the top of your head you could tell us all how many wins MSU has and what those scores were again. Or maybe remind us of their bowl victories. Constant complaining will get you no where fast around here. Be constructive, come up with solutions, etc.

That's fair.

Take Lucky's advice. Otherwise you'll probably be put on ignore by most of the board. Then you're basically talking to yourself because no one will see what you have to say.

 

[PANDFAN]

i will also add that a lot of times recruits will tell ND reporters or for that matter any team reporters what they want to hear..plus they like to also be able to publicly have the option of ND when in reality they aren't interested..for example the qb in florida...woody barrett-ND is in his top 3 or 5 don't remember...anyways we don't even talk to him nor are we mentioned any other time when he is talking about schools he likes...so the coaches obviously get the vibe when talking so this is another angle to see

 

[Irish Storm]

I guess we can all agree on this: Bring on the prune juice.

 

[Irish YJ]

I prefer green Kool Aid thank you

 

[Irish Insanity]

I prefer green Kool Aid thank you

You called

 

[Irish YJ]

yes, no prune juice for me. very regular here at the yj casa

 

[D-BOE34]

Boss told me his kid will hold his poop for days. He had to give him an enema (sp?) a few times it got so bad. However, he said when this kid drops one, it is ridiculous! His exact words.."The size of the thing scared me. Imagine being 3 and wondering why you have to go through something like that."

So yeah, constipation.

 

[Irish Storm]

We are still constipated one week later. We need some bran. Maybe some of that SNL cereal called Colon Blow.

 

[Luckylucci]

We are still constipated one week later. We need some bran. Maybe some of that SNL cereal called Colon Blow.

Sincerely, what did you expect? That over the last week we might have some random player commit because they had a dream about ND.

 

[BobbyMac]

Sincerely, what did you expect? That over the last week we might have some random player commit because they had a dream about ND.

He's like the regulars on Arnold's ND/ NBCSports comments section. johngaultisspeaking or one of those professional trolls.

Dude seriously needs a new tampon, his current one is full.

.

 

[WestCoast]

We are still constipated one week later. We need some bran. Maybe some of that SNL cereal called Colon Blow.

 

[connor_in]

Funny flick!
Hello!

 

[Ndaccountant]

PF Changs works too.

 

[Irish Storm]

Still constipated. More fiber please!

 

[Irish#1]

Try Activia. Jamie Lee Curtis swears by it.

 

[Old Man Mike]

One thing that a complainer could do which would be informative would be to go back through the last half dozen years and show when ND got verbals from our players [especially the ones who stuck]. It would be of interest to the board, I think, to see "how many by May/June/July/end of August/mid-season/December..."

That would be a lot more productive than whining or being puzzled.

Also, i believe that this year's class is small. 16? 18? someone who is smarter than I knows this, and why, but if the number is small, why would the staff be rushing to fill up even before the high school season reveals what it usually reveals [i.e. breakout players].

 

[ACamp1900]

One thing that a complainer could do which would be informative would be to go back through the last half dozen years and show when ND got verbals from our players [especially the ones who stuck]. It would be of interest to the board, I think, to see "how many by May/June/July/end of August/mid-season/December..."

That would be a lot more productive than whining or being puzzled.

It's so much easier to just whine tho.....

 

[NDdomer2]

One thing that a complainer could do which would be informative would be to go back through the last half dozen years and show when ND got verbals from our players [especially the ones who stuck]. It would be of interest to the board, I think, to see "how many by May/June/July/end of August/mid-season/December..."

That would be a lot more productive than whining or being puzzled.

Also, i believe that this year's class is small. 16? 18? someone who is smarter than I knows this, and why, but if the number is small, why would the staff be rushing to fill up even before the high school season reveals what it usually reveals [i.e. breakout players].

June has been on average our best month since the 2012 recruiting class. Best month ever was March in 2012 (2013 class). June in 2014 (for 2015 class) was great too. August, September, October, November, and February are pretty weak months. Thankfully theres football being played during most of those.

60% of our class is usually full by end of July.

Used 247 site data for the chart.