'16 IL DE Josh King (Michigan State Verbal)

[Irish Storm]

This probably all about academics-it takes a certain type of superstar high schooler to handle the Nd academics and do your own work.

I don't think it's just academics, there is a clear perception out there now that ND is hyper paranoid about academics. Who wants to take the chance that they will have entire seasons ruined because ND wants to show the world just how hard core they are about academics?

Your tutor changed your semicolon to a colon? You're outta here!

 

[Booslum31]

I don't think it's just academics, there is a clear perception out there now that ND is hyper paranoid about academics. Who wants to take the chance that they will have entire seasons ruined because ND wants to show the world just how hard core they are about academics?

Your tutor changed your semicolon to a colon? You're outta here!

Some kids just know 'themselves'. They know that they are not willing (or able) to step up and face the academic challenge.

 

[nico7980]

I don't think it's just academics, there is a clear perception out there now that ND is hyper paranoid about academics. Who wants to take the chance that they will have entire seasons ruined because ND wants to show the world just how hard core they are about academics?

Your tutor changed your semicolon to a colon? You're outta here!

This type of thinking baffles me sometimes. ND should stick to their guns when it comes to its academic reputation. That's what they are known for. If a kid comes in and does right. He'll be fine. Where is the personal responsibility at with these kids? ND provides more than enough support to its athletes. And it's not showing the world about how hard core their academics are. It's about setting a standard and holding kids accountable.

Your whole premise seems to be it's ND'S fault for holding kids accountable. If you cheat and get caught. They should be suspended.

ACCOUNTABILITY. . IT BUILDS CHARACTER.

 

[Luckylucci]

This type of thinking baffles me sometimes. ND should stick to their guns when it comes to its academic reputation. That's what they are known for. If a kid comes in and does right. He'll be fine. Where is the personal responsibility at with these kids? ND provides more than enough support to its athletes. And it's not showing the world about how hard core their academics are. It's about setting a standard and holding kids accountable.

Your whole premise seems to be it's ND'S fault for holding kids accountable. If you cheat and get caught. They should be suspended.

ACCOUNTABILITY. . IT BUILDS CHARACTER.

Good points, its the accountability that some of these kids don't want. For them it's, why not get an easy degree from MSU versus a hard one from ND, all the while playing football for the NFL. In fact it's pretty hilarious that MSU went from getting ragged on for the McDowell situation to bein heralded by recruits for it. The "academic support" at MSU must be pretty fantastic.

 

[drake29]

I think this is less about King's stance on academics and more about ND and their last 2 seasons on the field.

 

[Irish Storm]

I think this is less about King's stance on academics and more about ND and their last 2 seasons on the field.

Fair point but a big reason for those last two years on the field was because of ND suspending all those kids. Kids see that, it is harped on by our competition. And yes ND shouldn't run their program in a rogue way but they are going overkill now.

Also, these kids are being told that they may be ok but a few knuckleheads may do something stupid and uh oh, there goes your season because ND will blow it up. These kids aren't stupid.

 

[GBdomer]

Even if he had the academics to get into ND which he seems to have picked up I don't even think ND would be the choice here. Ohio State was his first choice but they ran out of room. He likes PSU and MSU more because of the amount of visits he's taken to each school compared to ND. Actually think he's only been to PSU once but he fell in love with the place. No doubt he liked ND early but ever since then I think ND was always in 4th place. We really fucked up recruiting the Midwest this year

 

[Luckylucci]

Even if he had the academics to get into ND which he seems to have picked up I don't even think ND would be the choice here. Ohio State was his first choice but they ran out of room. He likes PSU and MSU more because of the amount of visits he's taken to each school compared to ND. Actually think he's only been to PSU once but he fell in love with the place. No doubt he liked ND early but ever since then I think ND was always in 4th place. We really fucked up recruiting the Midwest this year

Being on track and having enough finished to get into ND are two totally different things. Nd feels he's on track to get it done if he wanted, "wanted" bein the key word. He has a lot to a still do to get in. That's a big pitfall in this recruitment as well as Robertson's

 

[Irish Storm]

Even if he had the academics to get into ND which he seems to have picked up I don't even think ND would be the choice here. Ohio State was his first choice but they ran out of room. He likes PSU and MSU more because of the amount of visits he's taken to each school compared to ND. Actually think he's only been to PSU once but he fell in love with the place. No doubt he liked ND early but ever since then I think ND was always in 4th place. We really fucked up recruiting the Midwest this year

It doesn't seem to be just him though. A lot if guys seem to be cooling on us and recruiting has been stagnant lately.

 

[GBdomer]

It doesn't seem to be just him though. A lot if guys seem to be cooling on us and recruiting has been stagnant lately.

Very true, MSU and OSU seem to have mid west kids up every weekend. ND hasn't probably since March

 

[nico7980]

Fair point but a big reason for those last two years on the field was because of ND suspending all those kids. Kids see that, it is harped on by our competition. And yes ND shouldn't run their program in a rogue way but they are going overkill now.

Also, these kids are being told that they may be ok but a few knuckleheads may do something stupid and uh oh, there goes your season because ND will blow it up. These kids aren't stupid.

Oh boy. I still don't see how how you don't get it. Let's go step by step.

Your first sentence is off base. ND didn't just suspend all of this kids. Those kids got caught cheating. It was because of their own actions that they got suspended. If they weren't trying to cheat. I think that ND wouldn't have suspended them. That's were ACCOUNTABILITY comes into play. Those kids should be held accountable for their actions. It builds character. On on ND's part. They are responsible to hold kids, not just these kids. The whole student body to be accountable for their actions. So good for ND in doing just that.

Now your second sentence. Though I may agree in what other coaches will use to get a commit to verbal. Is that something that you think should be a knock against ND? Really? How is holding someone accountable for their actions a bad thing? It happens everyday in the working world. People are held accountable for their actions. You just can't skurt the rules and not expect some kind of punishment if caught.

And for your last paragraph. Again. ND isn't "blowing up " anything. These kids put themselves in this situation. What ND HAS DONE is hold kids to a standard that should be met by all students attending the University. And if this standards aren't met or broken. ND has the right and should impose whatever the correlating punishment is set for such rules violation.

 

[Luckylucci]

Oh boy. I still don't see how how you don't get it. Let's go step by step.

Your first sentence is off base. ND didn't just suspend all of this kids. Those kids got caught cheating. It was because of their own actions that they got suspended. If they weren't trying to cheat. I think that ND wouldn't have suspended them. That's were ACCOUNTABILITY comes into play. Those kids should be held accountable for their actions. It builds character. On on ND's part. They are responsible to hold kids, not just these kids. The whole student body to be accountable for their actions. So good for ND in doing just that.

Now your second sentence. Though I may agree in what other coaches will use to get a commit to verbal. Is that something that you think should be a knock against ND? Really? How is holding someone accountable for their actions a bad thing? It happens everyday in the working world. People are held accountable for their actions. You just can't skurt the rules and not expect some kind of punishment if caught.

And for your last paragraph. Again. ND isn't "blowing up " anything. These kids put themselves in this situation. What ND HAS DONE is hold kids to a standard that should be met by all students attending the University. And if this standards aren't met or broken. ND has the right and should impose whatever the correlating punishment is set for such rules violation.

I think your very right. However, the other side to this is what those others might be trying to speak to. That is that kids don't want to come to ND if they feel like slipping up academically will lead to them missing football. This is a real problem that MSU is most definitely speaking to. Robertson, King, Corley, etc. they realize the difference and MSU is doing a better job at pitching their side of the story than we are. Does it make it right, I don't believe so but it's reality. Ex. They've truly convinced Robertson that he can't or doesn't want to make it at ND. Sad story but true

 

[Irish Storm]

Oh boy. I still don't see how how you don't get it. Let's go step by step.

Your first sentence is off base. ND didn't just suspend all of this kids. Those kids got caught cheating. It was because of their own actions that they got suspended. If they weren't trying to cheat. I think that ND wouldn't have suspended them. That's were ACCOUNTABILITY comes into play. Those kids should be held accountable for their actions. It builds character. On on ND's part. They are responsible to hold kids, not just these kids. The whole student body to be accountable for their actions. So good for ND in doing just that.

Now your second sentence. Though I may agree in what other coaches will use to get a commit to verbal. Is that something that you think should be a knock against ND? Really? How is holding someone accountable for their actions a bad thing? It happens everyday in the working world. People are held accountable for their actions. You just can't skurt the rules and not expect some kind of punishment if caught.

And for your last paragraph. Again. ND isn't "blowing up " anything. These kids put themselves in this situation. What ND HAS DONE is hold kids to a standard that should be met by all students attending the University. And if this standards aren't met or broken. ND has the right and should impose whatever the correlating punishment is set for such rules violation.

Its overkill. This isn't West Point. These men are not going to be leading other men into battle and be responsible for their lives.

I said we shouldn't be running a rogue program. But you also don't affect kids lives forever, put them on suspension for an entire year and in limbo for 8 months and then expel most of them anyway because their tutor corrected some grammatical mistakes on some papers. That's insane. You make them redo it, you flunk them. You make them run laps until they puke and then make them run some more.


It doesn't make ND look good at all. It makes them look ridiculous.

 

[Fbolt]

This is not over. MSU could very well do poorly this year. They just (IMO) are not as good a team as ND. On the flip side, ND could, and probably will, kick it up a notch this year. When that happens-recruits open up their rock solid commitments and start to listen. He could still be Irish even if he chooses MSU.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Seems like a combination of all of the above to me:

1) Staff dropped the ball on midwest recruiting
2) MSU got in his ear about academics
3) Perhaps he knows himself and just doesn't want to bother with ND course load vs MSU
4) I'm sure the Frozen Five didn't help matters in terms of perception, and while I agree to an extent it should've been handled differently. I think most people applaud ND for standing up for what's right and sticking to their mission.

In conclusion. It's May. There's a long way to go and a whole season of football to be played. There's no reason to freak out at the moment.

 

[drake29]

Seems like a combination of all of the above to me:

1) Staff dropped the ball on midwest recruiting
2) MSU got in his ear about academics
3) Perhaps he knows himself and just doesn't want to bother with ND course load vs MSU
4) I'm sure the Frozen Five didn't help matters in terms of perception, and while I agree to an extent it should've been handled differently. I think most people applaud ND for standing up for what's right and sticking to their mission.

In conclusion. It's May. There's a long way to go and a whole season of football to be played. There's no reason to freak out at the moment.

I agree on all fronts but it is a bit disconcerting that ND seems to be losing their recruiting base in the Midwest. With tOSU, Michigan, and MSU (PSU to a lesser extent) on the upswing it will be harder to land kids like Josh King. Talking to someone that spoke personally with King, the feeling was that ND had a very good shot to land King - as good as anyone else recruiting him. My buddy feels like ND simply got worked in this recruitment. I know there's a ways to go until signing day but stiffer competition in recruiting means you have to be proactive and more aggressive. You can't depend on a winning season for ND and losing seasons for any of the other Midwestern powers to make up ground.

 

[dublinirish]

yeah people need to chill on the MSU recruiting hype seeing as its still May and all. Remember a few years ago when Hoke signed Kallis, Tulley-Tillman, Darboh etc and people were getting on BK and co for not doing anything and getting their asses kicked on the recruiting trail!

Trust the staff.

 

[connor_in]

Seems like a combination of all of the above to me:

1) Staff dropped the ball on midwest recruiting
2) MSU got in his ear about academics
3) Perhaps he knows himself and just doesn't want to bother with ND course load vs MSU
4) I'm sure the Frozen Five didn't help matters in terms of perception, and while I agree to an extent it should've been handled differently. I think most people applaud ND for standing up for what's right and sticking to their mission.

In conclusion. It's May. There's a long way to go and a whole season of football to be played. There's no reason to freak out at the moment.

Quick question...how do we KNOW about 2 and 3...or is that just a) common knowledge/assumption; or b) sour grapes on our part as many have said for years when we don't get the guy we wanted, "Oh well he was scared of ND's academics"

Not meaning to pick a fight, just genuinely curious as I don't recall seeing anything to that effect about him in the reporting

 

[Domina Nostra]

yeah people need to chill on the MSU recruiting hype seeing as its still May and all. Remember a few years ago when Hoke signed Kallis, Tulley-Tillman, Darboh etc and people were getting on BK and co for not doing anything and getting their asses kicked on the recruiting trail!

Trust the staff.

Kelly prioritizes his staff above recruiting. With all the lag time hiring and reshuffling, there was going to be a set back on the trail.

It seems to me that Kelly is betting that the team is going to be really good on the field this year, and that that is going to open some doors.

 

[PANDFAN]

Quick question...how do we KNOW about 2 and 3...or is that just a) common knowledge/assumption; or b) sour grapes on our part as many have said for years when we don't get the guy we wanted, "Oh well he was scared of ND's academics"

Not meaning to pick a fight, just genuinely curious as I don't recall seeing anything to that effect about him in the reporting

it was "hinted at" in a prem article

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Quick question...how do we KNOW about 2 and 3...or is that just a) common knowledge/assumption; or b) sour grapes on our part as many have said for years when we don't get the guy we wanted, "Oh well he was scared of ND's academics"

Not meaning to pick a fight, just genuinely curious as I don't recall seeing anything to that effect about him in the reporting

Speculation. I haven't seen/heard "official" statements. Just what other posters have mentioned and what some have said in podcasts. The negative recruiting isn't anything new so that shouldn't be surprising. #3, however, was me agreeing with another posters personal gut feeling that maybe he's just not up for it*

*That goes back to a personal story of me talking myself out of pre-med while in high school making college decisions because deep down, I knew I just wouldn't be up for it.

With that said, it's been common knowledge that ND has been getting whipped in the mid-west so far this cycle. There's a lot of time to make up ground, however.

 

[irishff1014]

This type of thinking baffles me sometimes. ND should stick to their guns when it comes to its academic reputation. That's what they are known for. If a kid comes in and does right. He'll be fine. Where is the personal responsibility at with these kids? ND provides more than enough support to its athletes. And it's not showing the world about how hard core their academics are. It's about setting a standard and holding kids accountable.

Your whole premise seems to be it's ND'S fault for holding kids accountable. If you cheat and get caught. They should be suspended.

ACCOUNTABILITY. . IT BUILDS CHARACTER.

Well said!

 

[Luckylucci]

Quick question...how do we KNOW about 2 and 3...or is that just a) common knowledge/assumption; or b) sour grapes on our part as many have said for years when we don't get the guy we wanted, "Oh well he was scared of ND's academics"

Not meaning to pick a fight, just genuinely curious as I don't recall seeing anything to that effect about him in the reporting

Its fairly common knowledge from the recruiting services. He's not currently able to get into ND, they think he's on track but still has work to do. Most kids at this stage still have work to do in order to get into ND but I think there is more here than normal.

 

[Chi_IRISH]

Wrestling again this weekend for Illinois All-star team at the Virginia Beach Duels. Again at 220lbs. A little surprised that he hasn't packed on much weight yet, but again with his frame, wouldn't be surprised if he gets to 265 quick, once he's in a college weight program.

 

[GoldenDomer]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2016 IL DE Josh King commits to Michigan State.</p>— Irish Sports Daily (@ISDUpdate) <a href="https://twitter.com/ISDUpdate/status/606837190060949504">June 5, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ResLife Hero]

Sucks.

 

[IrishLax]

MSU is recruiting completely different without Narduzzi. Instead of looking for the best players that fit his mold, they're actually out there actively recruiting the "high star" guys.

 

[dublinirish]

MSU is recruiting completely different without Narduzzi. Instead of looking for the best players that fit his mold, they're actually out there actively recruiting the "high star" guys.

be interesting to see how they mesh these highly rated "star" kids with their existing underrated/chip on their shoulder type kids they have traditionally gotten commits from

 

[Southside Sully]

be interesting to see how they mesh these highly rated "star" kids with their existing underrated/chip on their shoulder type kids they have traditionally gotten commits from

Not a bad problem to have

 

[Irish#1]

MSU is recruiting completely different without Narduzzi. Instead of looking for the best players that fit his mold, they're actually out there actively recruiting the "high star" guys.

Sounds like a guy that used to be on ND's staff.