[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[IrishJayhawk]

Is there a good reason any of the above should matter? Last time I checked, this wasn't a criminal case, so if Godell don't give a f***, you can have all the high powered lawyers you want and it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

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[wizards8507]

Is there a good reason any of the above should matter? Last time I checked, this wasn't a criminal case, so if Godell don't give a f***, you can have all the high powered lawyers you want and it doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

It DOES matter a hill of beans. Goodell doesn't have to abide by the criminal justice system, but he DOES have to abide by the CBA and whatever other contracts are in place between the league, clubs, and players.

ETA: Has anyone noticed that Tom's four game suspension would have him back in time for the October 18 game against the Colts. On Sunday Night Football. The cynic in me says "hmm..."

 

[Irish#1]

]It DOES matter a hill of beans. Goodell doesn't have to abide by the criminal justice system, but he DOES have to abide by the CBA and whatever other contracts are in place between the league, clubs, and players[/B].

ETA: Has anyone noticed that Tom's four game suspension would have him back in time for the October 18 game against the Colts. On Sunday Night Football. The cynic in me says "hmm..."

True, but the CBA gives him the right to hear any arbitration if he wishes to. Thus why he has already stated he will hear the appeal himself. That's why NDBoiler said it doesn't matter.

 

[wizards8507]

True, but the CBA gives him the right to hear any arbitration if he wishes to. Thus why he has already stated he will hear the appeal himself. That's why NDBoiler said it doesn't matter.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the CBA, but the league has been sued in a court of law and lost before. Goodell's power as arbiter doesn't help him there.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the CBA, but the league has been sued in a court of law and lost before. Goodell's power as arbiter doesn't help him there.

But you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express, right?

 

[Irish YJ]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the CBA, but the league has been sued in a court of law and lost before. Goodell's power as arbiter doesn't help him there.

If they end up in a court of law, wouldn't the NFL then be able to subpoena Brady's phone records.

 

[irishfan]

If they end up in a court of law, wouldn't the NFL then be able to subpoena Brady's phone records.

Yes, but in theory they would also have access to phone/email from every NFL employee and other owners I believe. So....I don't think any party involved wants it going there.

This lawyer has beat the NFL time and time again. Goodell can call his bluff and uphold the penalty, or he can appoint a neutral judge and everything will be out of his hands. Just like he was when it came time to impose the penalties, he's in a pretty tough spot once again.

 

[irishfan]

This is probably the best article I've seen written about this whole situation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-i...culous-200459796.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

With anger still simmering, an appeal coming and Ted Wells holding a fiery teleconference Tuesday to attack Tom Brady's agent (professionalism straight out of the WWE), it's fair to say we are far from the end of deflate-gate.

A first-year attorney could lampoon Wells' report and Brady has hired the prominent Jeffrey Kessler, so expect the four-game suspension to be halved on appeal. We'll see about the New England Patriots' lost draft picks and $1 million fine.

Still, at this point it's worth contemplating the totality of evidence, as Wells likes to write. And what's apparent is deflate-gate was more misdemeanor than felony, a molehill that commissioner Roger Goodell's office turned into a mountain via incompetence, vengeance or both.


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NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and Patriots owner Robert Kraft don't see eye-to-eye on the deflate-gate punishment. …


The idea a Patriots lackey carried game balls into a bathroom and took a little air out via a needle prior to the AFC championship game is a relatively moderate rule violation – and a comical bit of gamesmanship. It's wrong and deserves punishment but not something that should merit a four-month, multi-million dollar investigation and the tsk-tsking of over-the-top pious law-and-order types.

"It's not ISIS," Tom Brady said back in January.

Wells should have focused on that line rather than whine about Brady not handing over electronic communication that may not exist (did he expect to find a confessional email chain with BBelichick@Patriots.com?).

It doesn't matter whether you think Brady and New England are guilty or innocent, punished properly or inappropriately. Me? I go with common sense and common sense says the Patriots' equipment guys did it to gain some advantage and Brady was approving of the act. Yet the biggest take away from this tiresome ordeal is how Goodell's lack of touch, vision, courage and guile created a circus.

Start with this: the story didn't go big until ESPN reported about 24 hours after the game that the NFL had discovered that 11 of the 12 footballs were measured to be more than 2 pounds per square inch below the league minimum of 12.5.

That gave a subject that almost no one knew much about context, significance and potentially sinister intent. ESPN cited a nebulous "league source" at a time when it's believed no one outside the NFL office knew the actual measurements.

Of course, that story wasn't true. It wasn't even close to true. Wells' report showed that none of the footballs, each measured twice, were that underinflated.

At that very moment, the NFL had to know the story wasn't true. Yet it did nothing.

So the league either created a fake story that was extremely prejudicial to the Patriots by leaking inaccurate information or someone else did it and the league office let it run wild rather than correct it with the actual air pressure measurements. It's tough to figure out which scenario is worse for Goodell.
Once it appeared the Patriots were up to something big then the public and media rightfully demanded a serious investigation into what wasn't that serious of a story. Goodell didn't steer this to the truth and away from the heated condemnation of a signature player and the validity of a Super Bowl participant (and soon champion).

He instead commissioned Wells' report, lending credence to a false narrative. Abdicating his authority to Wells led to the build-up for the report, which allowed a pack of Manhattan lawyers to serve as the cops, judge and jury.




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Tom Brady is appealing a four-game suspension for his role in deflate-gate. (Getty Images)
There is probably no report without that demonstrably false ESPN story. What would be the point?

Goodell could have looked at the pressure levels, saw that in the context of natural weather-related deflation it was fairly insignificant, doled out some kind of fine or even sanction and killed the kerfuffle in its tracks. It would have saved his league from all sorts of negative headlines and conspiracy theories.

A good commissioner would've done just that. He's supposed to "protect the shield," not provide talk radio fodder. There is just no way Adam Silver, Paul Tagliabue or David Stern lets this go down.

Even more bizarre, an NFL senior vice president emailed a letter to the Patriots stating that "one of the game balls was inflated to 10.1 psi … [and] in contrast each of the Colts game balls that was inspected met the requirements."

Those assertions were untrue.

No gameball was measured below 10.5 and most were in the 11s, which is within an acceptable range of natural deflation. Three of the four Colts footballs as measured by one gauge were below 12.5, although also within the weather realm (it's uncertain the NFL knew anything about Ideal Gas Law at the time).

Wells' report brushed this off as "miscommunication" but it's quite a miscommunication.

The NFL either had no idea what it was doing and was just making up facts without checking or, in a more draconian reading of it, it was trying to scare and/or silence the franchise into compliance by trumping up evidence.
What's also clear is the NFL never cared about a whole lot about the inflation levels of footballs, probably because it doesn't impact the game very much. The refs check the footballs pregame with a pressure gauge (which vary wildly) and that's about it. It's all a loose guess. In November, when Carolina and Minnesota were caught trying to doctor the footballs by warming them on a cold day, they each got a warning and everyone laughed at the story.

The Colts sent the league an email the week of the AFC title game with concerns about the Pats' footballs. The NFL ignored it, instead employing a process so casual that there is a viable counterargument that the league never even proved the footballs were deflated.

Even then the competitive advantage is debatable, if not negligible. Brady was better in the second half against the Colts. As Peter King points out, across his career he is almost exactly as effective on the road (when Pats personnel would have no access to pregame footballs) as at home (when "The Deflator" might operate).

The Patriots and Brady seemingly deserve some sanction, if only for having someone carry the footballs into a bathroom, but this grew beyond reason.

This wasn’t important to the NFL until the NFL retroactively made it important..

Nearly everyone is enjoying the haughty Patriots getting their comeuppance here and that's understandable. However, even if you think in the end Brady was secretly commanding this operation (as I suspect) is this how the commissioner's office should work?

What happens when the next time it's your team's time?

 

[Irish YJ]

Best article from a Boston native maybe lol.. Yes, Dan ("Pats Homer" I believe) Wetzel from Norwell, Mass

 

[Irish YJ]

Yes, but in theory they would also have access to phone/email from every NFL employee and other owners I believe. So....I don't think any party involved wants it going there.

This lawyer has beat the NFL time and time again. Goodell can call his bluff and uphold the penalty, or he can appoint a neutral judge and everything will be out of his hands. Just like he was when it came time to impose the penalties, he's in a pretty tough spot once again.

Only those relevant to the case. I would love to see Coach BB's email. Ah, never mine. The guy probably doesn't text or email. Grunt.

 

[irishfan]

Only those relevant to the case. I would love to see Coach BB's email. Ah, never mine. The guy probably doesn't text or email. Grunt.

Wells was able to access BB's texts (not sure about email) for the investigation and I think you're right that he doesn't use any of that new-age electronic stuff haha.

 

[Irish#1]

This is probably the best article I've seen written about this whole situation.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-i...culous-200459796.html?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma

How come you only post articles that support the Pats or slam the Wells report? I need fair and balanced reporting from you IrishFan. lol

 

[irishfan]

How come you only post articles that support the Pats or slam the Wells report? I need fair and balanced reporting from you IrishFan. lol

haha you know I can't do that. I've already admitted they probably did something with the balls pre-game. Least I can do as a fan is point out the articles that show the lack of evidence in the Wells Report.

 

[Irish#1]

AJ Feely has went on record stating Brady was circumventing the system years ago, back when the NFL supplied the balls. He referenced a game against Miami where they saw the ball boy always throwing in a worn ball when the Pats were on offense. When the Dolphins were on offense they got the slick shiny balls. When he mentioned it to the ball boy, he smirked at them.

Looks like Pats fans are in the minority.
Poll shows fans support NFL sanctions against Tom Brady

 

[wizards8507]

Looks like Pats fans are in the minority.

Poll shows fans support NFL sanctions against Tom Brady

Is that surprising? That's like asking college football nation how they feel about the SEC. Or asking baseball fans if they think Alex Rodriguez needs a punch in the face.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Is that surprising? That's like asking college football nation how they feel about the SEC. Or asking baseball fans if they thing Alex Rodriguez needs a punch in the face.

Except A-Rod's cheating was actually very egregious.

(Amazing how we can disagree so vehemently on the politics thread but agree on other things... )

 

[irishfan]

Here is the Patriots response today from their legal team and also from a chemist who won the Nobel Prize in 2003.

Where the hell is Bill Nye also? Didn't he say it was stupid to think that the temperature could cause a drop in PSI? Yet the Wells Report says the balls should drop 1.0-1.2?

The Wells Report in Context

"The League had advance notice of the Colts concerns about game football psi. They also knew there would be inclement weather at the game (pg. 53, fn. 31). League personnel never considered the inevitable impact of the colder temperatures outside, which would inevitably drop footballs set at 12.5 psi pre-game to below regulation soon after being moved to the field. The Wells Report (pg.113) validates the science behind this conclusion. The League should have been aware of this going into the game, but it appears that the League never considered the impact of weather on psi or on the enforcement of Rule 2 in this game or any game. Using Ideal Gas Law calculations, footballs set pre-game in 71º indoor temperatures at the high end of the Rule 2 range — 13.5 psi — will drop below 12.5 when the outside temperature is at or below 52º. It is safe to assume that countless NFL games have therefore used below-regulation footballs — and no one has even noticed.

The League is, however, “generally aware” of the impact of heat and cold on the psi of footballs, having adopted a protocol which prevents footballs from being placed in front of field-level heaters."

Re-using their language is such a slap in the face. It's worth a read. I read the part from the chemist, and made it about 1/4 of the way through. I need to take a break to do some actually work at work, but going to read the rest later. I'm biased, but they raise good points throughout. Need a neutral judge to rule on this.

Their explanation for the "deflator" text is pretty horrible though.

 

[NDBoiler]

Here is the Patriots response today from their legal team and also from a chemist who won the Nobel Prize in 2003.

Where the hell is Bill Nye also? Didn't he say it was stupid to think that the temperature could cause a drop in PSI? Yet the Wells Report says the balls should drop 1.0-1.2?

The Wells Report in Context



Re-using their language is such a slap in the face. It's worth a read. I read the part from the chemist, and made it about 1/4 of the way through. I need to take a break to do some actually work at work, but going to read the rest later. I'm biased, but they raise good points throughout. Need a neutral judge to rule on this.

Their explanation for the "deflator" text is pretty horrible though.

From what I heard Wells say on the radio the other day, the Pats refused to grant access to an equipment person for another interview after new evidence came to light during the course of the investigation. Personally I think the penalty is just as much about the Pats' uncooperative attitude during the investigation as it is about the actual allegation. Plus their history as an organization with rule bending/breaking Would likely have factored in too. To sum it up, I don't see any reason for sympathy

 

[irishfan]

From what I heard Wells say on the radio the other day, the Pats refused to grant access to an equipment person for another interview after new evidence came to light during the course of the investigation. Personally I think the penalty is just as much about the Pats' uncooperative attitude during the investigation as it is about the actual allegation. Plus their history as an organization with rule bending/breaking Would likely have factored in too. To sum it up, I don't see any reason for sympathy

No one will see any reason for sympathy with the Pats, which is reasonable. ND is the same way in some respects. If I were Goodell I still would have gone with the 1-game for Brady, and then docked a 3rd rounder and a fine for not fully cooperating. This would have appeased just about everyone, and actually could have stood up with a neutral judge. The Pats already said ahead of time they would accept the penalties (which has been rescinded by Kraft after how severe they were). As I saw online a couple days ago: Goodell had a layup, and instead went for the between-the-legs dunk.

I don't expect anyone to feel bad for the Patriots, but Goodell is setting a horrible precedent with this punishment all because the NFL had a horrible year with off-the-field incidents and he botched every punishment along the way.

 

[NDBoiler]

No one will see any reason for sympathy with the Pats, which is reasonable. ND is the same way in some respects. If I were Goodell I still would have gone with the 1-game for Brady, and then docked a 3rd rounder and a fine for not fully cooperating. This would have appeased just about everyone, and actually could have stood up with a neutral judge. The Pats already said ahead of time they would accept the penalties (which has been rescinded by Kraft after how severe they were). As I saw online a couple days ago: Goodell had a layup, and instead went for the between-the-legs dunk.

I don't expect anyone to feel bad for the Patriots, but Goodell is setting a horrible precedent with this punishment all because the NFL had a horrible year with off-the-field incidents and he botched every punishment along the way.

I think you're incorrect on the bolded. I think the severity has to do with the Pats' history on rules transgressions. I think the recent NFL issues is more of a matter of coincidence in timing with this particular event. I definitely agree that the recent NFL issues will play into any future punishments relating to criminal issues, especially domestic violence. IIRC, I think the new NFL personal conduct policy even mandated mandatory stiff minimum punishments for domestic violence. The Pats issue is in a different realm IMO.

 

[irishfan]

Appeal is in officially. Be interesting to see what the NFL does here.

"Given the NFL's history of inconsistency and arbitrary decisions in disciplinary matters, it is only fair that a neutral arbitrator hear this appeal," the union said in a release. "If Ted Wells and the NFL believe, as their public comments stated, that the evidence in their report is 'direct' and 'inculpatory,' then they should be confident enough to present their case before someone who is truly independent."

Under the collective bargaining agreement, the NFL now has 10 days to name a arbitrator and schedule Brady's hearing, though that date can be pushed back if both sides agree.

NFLPA appeals four-game suspension for New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady

 

[ab2cmiller]

After reading the explanation of the "deflator" term from the team attorney, I would double all of the current penalties, citing incredible stupidity. The Patriots must think that the general public is incredibly naive.

Team attorney Daniel Goldberg said the "deflator" nickname used by a ballboy and cited in the discipline was about weight loss, not footballs.

 

[irishfan]

After reading the explanation of the "deflator" term from the team attorney, I would double all of the current penalties, citing incredible stupidity. The Patriots must think that the general public is incredibly naive.

I know. That annoyed me so much to read. That and the McNally "ESPN" text had the worst reasoning ever. They should have just quit while they were behind and left those two fake explanations out. Their whole response apart from that had very good arguments in it, and they're completely being over-shadowed by this horrible fake nickname they created.

 

[IrishLax]

So basically they could've gone for a measured approach... and instead they doubled down with a truly ridiculous explanation for those text messages which just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are all lying and have been lying this entire time.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I think the Patriots know that even if they can come up with sound reasoning to refute all of the air pressure readings etc, that they still have to come up with some kind of logical reason for the "deflator" moniker as well as some of the other stuff in the text messages in order to get off the hook.

Patriots: You could've used different air gauges at the start and then at half.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

Patriots: You didn't test all of the Colts balls.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

Patriots: The cold temperatures would explain the drop in air pressure.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

ETC

ETC

ETC

 

[Irish YJ]

Getting comical.
Almost embarrassed to read their explanations. If they would have kept their mouths closed, they would have just looked like "bad boys". Now they look like the "bad little boys" spinning a nonsensical yarn to escape having their Gameboys taken away.

 

[irishfan]

I think the Patriots know that even if they can come up with sound reasoning to refute all of the air pressure readings etc, that they still have to come up with some kind of logical reason for the "deflator" moniker as well as some of the other stuff in the text messages in order to get off the hook.

Patriots: You could've used different air gauges at the start and then at half.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

Patriots: You didn't test all of the Colts balls.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

Patriots: The cold temperatures would explain the drop in air pressure.

NFL: The guy called himself the "deflator"

ETC

ETC

ETC

This conpeltely. That one text is killing them more than anything else. For the most part, any analyst out there has agreed that the science in the Report is faulty. In theory, the NFL and Exponent proved that the footballs used by the Pats were fine. They fell to the correct pressure, the NFL didn't account for PSI dropping naturally, the NFL leaked false reports and did nothing to counter the false media reports about the PSI. Hell, the NFL sent the Pats a letter with the wrong information, withheld the halftime measurements from the Pats until March, and even said in their letter to them that they were essentially guilty. Even the guy taking the footballs from the officials' locker room isn't that bad since he walked right by them to get the balls and walked out and they didn't say anything.

They just look like idiots with the Deflator nickname story which is unfortunate because pretty much everything else in the Wells Report has been explained. The even don't look that bad not allowing the follow up interview with McNally since the agreement they made beforehand was that they could only interview people one time. In theory the Pats followed protocol with the investigation (barely), and pretty much every text besides the "deflator" one can be chalked up to two equipment guys being idiots with eachother.

 

[IrishLax]

In some alternate universe, after the story broke Brady would've said...

"Look, everyone in this league likes to play with footballs that feel a certain way. It's to the preference of the individual... some like them more inflated, others like them less inflated, some like the balls a little scuffed... everyone is different. The NFL gives us a range of pressures they deem acceptable. I tell the guys who prepare the balls to get them as close to the lower limit as possible. I've NEVER instructed them to make the balls illegal, and if they did happen to go past the allowable lower limit it was a mistake and I'm sure the organization will make sure it doesn't happen again."

And regardless of whether that is true or not, he would've received ZERO punishment and the Patriots would've gotten a small fine.

But they feel they're above the rules, stonewalled the NFL, have lied and continue to lie to everyone, and have created this whole mess. It's basically Mike Garrett at USC calling the NCAA "jealous" and that they "wish they were Trojans" and daring them to come find proof of violations. Never, ever does that crap work.

 

[irishfan]

In some alternate universe, after the story broke Brady would've said...

"Look, everyone in this league likes to play with footballs that feel a certain way. It's to the preference of the individual... some like them more inflated, others like them less inflated, some like the balls a little scuffed... everyone is different. The NFL gives us a range of pressures they deem acceptable. I tell the guys who prepare the balls to get them as close to the lower limit as possible. I've NEVER instructed them to make the balls illegal, and if they did happen to go past the allowable lower limit it was a mistake and I'm sure the organization will make sure it doesn't happen again."

And regardless of whether that is true or not, he would've received ZERO punishment and the Patriots would've gotten a small fine.

But they feel they're above the rules, stonewalled the NFL, have lied and continue to lie to everyone, and have created this whole mess. It's basically Mike Garrett at USC calling the NCAA "jealous" and that they "wish they were Trojans" and daring them to come find proof of violations. Never, ever does that crap work.

Agreed. However, there was such a media sh!tstorm after Mort's false report came out, so many people were on their high horse saying he or Belichick should be suspended for the Super Bowl. Kravitz, the guy who broke the story in Indy, was saying Belichick should be fired ASAP. No way the NFL would have actually done that before the Super Bowl, but I'm sure they were thinking they should deny for the timebeing and not jeopardize anything before that game.

Also, Kraft today gave the NFL the biggest FU calling out the Wells Report....I think it's probably the most an owner has done to stand up against the League since Al Davis back in the day suing. I can't wait to see what happens. They have another week before they have to decide to appeal. If I were Kraft, I'd be pissed too. The Report put no blame on the organization or coaches and they got slammed regardless. Goodell will say "ignorance is no excuse" but what were they ignorant of? The balls weren't deflated according to the science in the report. They got slammed for not complying, but there's nothing that says Brady had to hand over his cell phone records or that the Pats HAVE to grant Wells second interviews to employees. The NFL withheld all second half measurements from the Pats until March (after feeding them false info in their first memo) seemingly hoping they'd get some sort of admission of guilt before then. The NFL and Wells are just annoyed they came so close to proving guilt and couldn't.

The did something. I'm not saying they're innocent. But if they're only guilty of an equipment guy taking footballs into the bathroom for 100 seconds and for 1 text....it's tough to justify the penalty.

 

[Irish YJ]

So Kraft is the new Al Davis.. lol

In all seriousness, you had both player and staff conspiring to break the rules. That's a team, or organization failure no matter how you look at it. I think their history of skirting the rules played a big part in it as well.

As a fan of football, I wish they would have just taken their medicine and gone about their bad boy ways (Da Pats LOL). As a Colts fan, I'm glad their making a stink. I think the long term outcome will be more damaging to the Pats than the fine, suspension, and loss of draft picks.

Could be wrong, but you can see how the polls are trending from an opinion perspective. I also don't think Wells, or the NFL are stupid enough to totally shit the bed making a case they know could easily be overturned.