[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[Bubbles]

I had a long answer typed up but again, frankly, I'm not going to explain to Patriots fans why deflating the balls is a whole different level of cheating than committing a penalty within a game. Is this seriously the justification you are all coming up with? It baffles my mind.

It's not a justification, I just thought the thread could use a bit of fatuous levity based on:

When I think "cheating" I think of an intent element. Holding or pass interference lacks that intent because I'm sure the players don't actually want to violate the rules because they don't want to get a penalty.

really? c'mon man.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Oh Gerry Austin did the game? Or he just used to be a referee?

 

[Monk]

Also this:

There's no guarantee that the Pats balls and the Colts balls were inflated the same amount from the beginning. There's a full 1.0 PSI acceptable range.

I figured the person making the biggest case for the Patriots would at least know the balls were 2 PSI under the minimum pressure. Which in turn would make the Colts balls 1 PSI below the minimum limit even if they were inflated to the maximum.

 

[wizards8507]

I figured the person making the biggest case for the Patriots would at least know the balls were 2 PSI under the minimum pressure. Which in turn would make the Colts balls 1 PSI below the minimum limit even if they were inflated to the maximum.

See my other post... have we seen ANYTHING credible that says the Colts' balls were tested?

Emphasis on credible.

 

[Irish#1]

I still haven't seen a credible source that says the Colts balls were, in fact, tested and if so, WHEN. It sounds like if they were tested it was at a later date and likely indoors. A ball that shrinks due to cold will re-inflate if returned to the original temperature at which it was inflated.

Pre-game: All balls properly inflated

During and immediately post-game: All balls under inflated due to cold <--- Patriots balls tested

Long post-game: Balls returned to indoors and return to proper inflation <--- Colts balls tested(?)

Provide a credible source that says the Colts balls were tested.

Also this:

There's no guarantee that the Pats balls and the Colts balls were inflated the same amount from the beginning. There's a full 1.0 PSI acceptable range.

I have nothing to base this upon, but since this was brought to the leagues attention during the game, I have to believe the secured both teams balls after the game. Of course you've already given your excuse that if the Colts balls were tested, they were tested in a warm room versus outdoors for the Pats. It's clear to me that if Goodell says they were deflated, you'll find another excuse.

 

[Monk]

See my other post... have we seen ANYTHING credible that says the Colts' balls were tested?

Emphasis on credible.

See my previous post...you are grasping at straws.

 

[gkIrish]

Oh Gerry Austin did the game? Or he just used to be a referee?

I believe he is retired. And I'm sure he is friends with the referee that did the game and asked him. I don't know how much more credible it gets.

Btw he said it on ESPN on Mike and Mike.

 

[pkt77242]

I have nothing to base this upon, but since this was brought to the leagues attention during the game, I have to believe the secured both teams balls after the game. Of course you've already given your excuse that if the Colts balls were tested, they were tested in a warm room versus outdoors for the Pats. It's clear to me that if Goodell says they were deflated, you'll find another excuse.

Obviously Goodell would just like to take the focus off of his shitty handling of the Ray Rice fiasco. He should send BB a thank you note.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Somehow this is a perfect analogy.

Thanks! I actually made that one up on the fly but I thought it worked pretty well.

 

[SoDakDomer]

I'm so glad this was an ass whoopin' and not a one possession game. Could you imagine the outcry then? It would have for sure ruined the super bowl, if this hasn't already. I say if they have credible proof hit them with some sort of $ or draft pick fine and move on. I haven’t really seen any statement by Colts players that feel they were cheated. Most of them know it had nothing to do with the outcome of the game and they pretty much got owned in the trenches. It’s a bye week in sports and ESPN needs something to drive interest, hopefully it goes away as we get into game week.

 

[wizards8507]

I believe he is retired. And I'm sure he is friends with the referee that did the game and asked him. I don't know how much more credible it gets.

Btw he said it on ESPN on Mike and Mike.

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interest in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

 

[edgesofsanity]

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interested in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

Whether or not the Patriots definitely cheated is up for debate - the NFL investigation is currently ongoing. However, you can't conclude that the Patriots definitely didn't cheat based on the evidence so far acquired.

I get that it's your team, but try to show some objectivity.

 

[Monk]

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interested in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

I believe there are multiple individuals on this site with a wide range of views. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't generalize my views with every poster on this board. I have not said anything regarding the ESPN suit against ND and frankly can completely understand why a media outlet would be suing for information. But I digress considering this is not the place for that discussion.

 

[Bubbles]

Whether or not the Patriots definitely cheated is up for debate - the NFL investigation is currently ongoing. However, you can't conclude that the Patriots definitely didn't cheat based on the evidence so far acquired.

We get that it's your team, but try to show some objectivity.

this is where I'm at....hope its nothing nefarious, but if so, head should roll.....not literal heads as it seems some of the axe grinders would want, but penalties in accordance with the rules.

 

[gkIrish]

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interest in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

GERRY AUSTIN SAID SO. I pointed out the ESPN thing because I figured you would have seen it and not pretended this never happened.

 

[wizards8507]

Whether or not the Patriots definitely cheated is up for debate - the NFL investigation is currently ongoing. However, you can't conclude that the Patriots definitely didn't cheat based on the evidence so far acquired.

That's exactly where I stand. We can't say they definitely didn't and we can't say the definitely did. If we never get to "definitely did," then everyone should move on. If we DO get to "definitely did," punish away.

My objection is to the people calling for Belichick's head based on the CURRENT information that we have.

 

[edgesofsanity]

That's exactly where I stand. We can't say they definitely didn't and we can't say the definitely did. If we never get to "definitely did," then everyone should move on. If we DO get to "definitely did," punish away.

My objection is to the people calling for Belichick's head based on the CURRENT information that we have.

And hence the investigation. However, I hope you and everyone else will be satisfied with a "probably did" or "probably didn't" - as outside of a confession from the affected parties the answer will never move to the definitive.

 

[connor_in]

 

[ACamp1900]

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interest in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

Egg-xact-tily!!! It's about time you came to grips with reality...

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I'm not saying "Brady did it but who cares because he doesn't need an advantage." I'm saying, Brady has whooped on people in much worse and DIDN'T cheat, so why would he risk it this time.

Hmmm, has he now? I think this is now a legitimate question. You have to now doubt the legitimacy of everything that has happened during the belichick era.

 

[Irish YJ]

Some of this is comical. What if USC, Alabama, or scum was caught doing this. What would some on this board say.

There's enough circumstantial evidence to draw a conclusion. Everyone knows BB will push the rules to the limit. In addition to spygate and other crap, BB has been rumored to do a lot more shady sh... It's like the comparison of ND and the SEC. ND does things the right way and we are proud. The SEC is, well everyone knows.... and the board views them as corrupt pieces of sh... But the Pats do shady sh.. and some Irish fans become SEC like defenders. Hilarious.

 

[Cackalacky]

Ugh. I keep losing my post. Anyway. Losing 2 psi of pressure is pretty difficult to do just having weather act on it. If the balls were filled inside it would have to have been filled at a temp. upwards of 85 degrees at a minimum and filled just to the minimum pressure. If they were filled at the game time temp. and minimum pressure, the outside air temperature would have to have been as low as 20 degrees to cause the ball to lose 2 psi.

The Patriots deflated their balls.

 

[Irish#1]

This is why I love you guys. The Patriots definitely cheated because ESPN said so and they have no interest in keeping this story going as long as possible, but fuck ESPN for suing Notre Dame and signing a distribution deal with the SEC and every other thing. They can't be trusted and have zero credibility... except when they say the Patriots cheated because totes.

I haven't read a thing on ESPN.com or listened to ESPN. Rarely do as I have posted more than once in this forum. This issue isn't being pushed by ESPN, it's being reported by sports media and some news media all over the place.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

This could very well happen, the only issue is the allowable pressure pre game is 12.5 to 13.5 PSI giving the balls 1 PSI to fluctuate. The Patriots balls as reported by ESPN were 2 PSI below the minimum pressure allowable.

This.

Edit:

Just catching up. Some of the Patriots fans on this board need to quit trolling and open your minds to the possibility that your team cheated (again). No one is suggesting anything definite, but at this point, what we do know seems to prove guilt. IF, it is proven so, then I personally feel the NFL needs to step up.

I'm actually tired of hearing about BB and wish more focus was on Brady...you know, the guy that handled the deflated balls every single snap the Pats offense was on the field, yet said nothing about it. Or the center, who also touched the ball every single snap. Did BB know? Probably, but he never touched the ball. Is it possible he did not know and that Brady orchestrated this with those who had the power to deflate the balls? Yes. It is possible that BB nor Brady knew and that the ball boys took it upon themselves to do this? Sure. Unlikely, but possible. What is NOT possible is no one noticed. It's what these guys do. Every QB (and center) knows how the ball feels. Consistency is key for these perfectionists. It's their profession. Trust me. Someone knew, no one told.

 

[Irish YJ]

espn talking about it now and doing blind test with Jerome B. They easily identified the underinflated ball.

 

[Irish#1]

From the Boston Herald

"Former NFL official Gerry Austin told ESPN yesterday that the Patriots’ 12th ball was also under-inflated but not by 2 pounds. Austin also said all 12 of the Colts’ balls were properly inflated when they were measured at halftime."

So much for the excuse of cold effecting the pressure of the balls and the Colts balls not being tested. This confirms what I said before that I was sure the NFL would test all the balls, not just the Pats.

 

[NDRock]

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.

The Colts and Patriots balls were both checked before the game and at halftime. Both were compliant in the pre-game inspection. Only one was noncompliant at halftime. So it must have been colder on the Patriots sideline.

What if the Colts' balls were inflated to the max level before the game and the Pats' balls were at the minimum level? An equal drop in pressure due to temperature could make the Pats drop below level while the Colts would still be within range.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

What if the Colts' balls were inflated to the max level before the game and the Pats' balls were at the minimum level? An equal drop in pressure due to temperature could make the Pats drop below level while the Colts would still be within range.

Not the case. They're reporting a 2 psi drop. The range is only 1 psi. If the Colts began at the max range, a 2 psi drop would put them 1 psi below the minimum accepted measurement.

 

[yankeeND]

Well, I'm definitely interested to see what the final verdict is on this whole mess. If the Pats are found to be guilty then they need a fair punishment to fit the crime, though I am not quite sure what that is considering the ridiculous nature of allowing teams to scuff up balls and then how the balls are monitored and then given back to the teams. To be honest I never knew that this is how the NFL did it and I am more concerned with their practice than anything else. Something as important as the ball should never be left to the integrity of the teams using them. I am not saying that it is ok if the team did in fact alter the game balls, I am however suggesting that the NFL should take a little more accountability for not controlling such a thing. They control everything else, but not the most important piece of equipment used for the sport. They are more worried about fining Kap and Lynch for the types of shoes and headphones they are wearing. This to me is more everything that is wrong with the league rather than a another Pats are cheating scandal.

 

[irishfan]

Belichick denied any wrongdoing on his part this morning in his press conference. Brady's press conference set for 4:00 today. Should be good.