[NFL] vBook: Colts vs Patriots (Deflategate)

[NDWorld247]

2. Teams are allowed to reinflate the balls over the course of the game. Example: if a QB likes his ball at 13.0 PSI and it deflates to 12.2 as the game progresses, they can add air to bring it back to 13.0. If Brady likes a softer ball, they'd just let the decline in pressure happen naturally and not pump it back up. They're under no obligation to continually check the ball over the course of play.

Are you sure about this? Everything I've read says teams are not allowed to do anything to the balls after they've been checked, which makes sense.

 

[wizards8507]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>(1/4)When checking the game balls, the refs check the psi indoors. This is frustrating bc the ball loses some pressure in cold weather...</p>— Graham Gano (@GrahamGano) <a href="https://twitter.com/GrahamGano/status/557762547911524353">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>(2/4)... During our home playoff game this year I asked the official if he could check the psi outside again bc the ball felt flat and he...</p>— Graham Gano (@GrahamGano) <a href="https://twitter.com/GrahamGano/status/557762576663457793">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>(3/4)...said he could not. I guess you can't blame the official for that. Rules are rules. Maybe the league will make some changes this...</p>— Graham Gano (@GrahamGano) <a href="https://twitter.com/GrahamGano/status/557762600134795265">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>(4/4)...offseason. Sucks kicking a flat ball tho. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BombSquadNonetheless?src=hash">#BombSquadNonetheless</a> ��</p>— Graham Gano (@GrahamGano) <a href="https://twitter.com/GrahamGano/status/557762624260419585">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[gkIrish]

A couple of possible reasons
3. Amontons' Law of Pressure-Temperature is REAL. Again, why oh why do people keep ignoring this scientifically factual component of this whole thing?.

No one is ignoring or denying that particular law of physics exist. What you are ignoring is that there is plenty of evidence that suggests, in reality, this is not what happened to those balls. A) it wasn't that cold B) it didn't happen to all 12 of the balls C) the balls aren't as cold as the outside temperature D) it's never been brought up in colder weather games, or any games at all prior to this year's playoffs

 

[irishfan]

So multiple kickers have come out saying that the balls get deflated in the cold. That seems to be verified via science. If kickers know this, you can bet your ass that Belichick knows this.

The Patriots balls were measured 2:15 prior to kickoff in what I'm assuming was roughly 70 degree temperature indoors. They were re-measured at halftime, roughly 4 hours later.

I am curious what happens to those balls during the 2:15 prior to kickoff. I know the Pats ballboy had them. Are they supposed to stay indoors? Can they go outdoors prior to warmups? If they can go outside, is it scientifcally possible that they balls deflated by 2 PSI in the 4 hours that they were outside?

The strangest part about the story is the fact that none of the refs picked up on it despite touching the ball every single play.

In defense of the Pats, there are 3 explanations:
--a) the refs didn't properly check pre-game
--b) this isn't a heavily enforced issue, so refs didn't care/notice a deflated ball (lot of stories on this) --c) the balls were pumped to 12.5 and naturally delfated 2 PSI in the cold

Maybe none seem very likely, but I don't think any are far-fetched either. It is also equally likely that BB ordered the balls to be deflated prior to kickoff. Who knows? I'm looking forward to the report.

Just read that they were indeed properly checked before the game.

Also this:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Every team tampers with the footballs. Ask any Qb In the league, this is ridiculous!!</p>— Matt Leinart (@MattLeinartQB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattLeinartQB/status/557943575585882112">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[wizards8507]

D) it's never been brought up in colder weather games, or any games at all prior to this year's playoffs

Yes it has! Every single cold weather field goal attempt over 40 yards features commentary about how "kickers hate to kick in this weather because the ball is deflated and doesn't travel as far" yada yada.

 

[gkIrish]

Are you sure about this? Everything I've read says teams are not allowed to do anything to the balls after they've been checked, which makes sense.

Pretty sure wizards made that up, shockingly

 

[wizards8507]

Temp outside: 45F / 7C
Temp inside: 75 F 24 C (for sake of argument)

In Kelvin:
Outside = 273 + 7 = 280
Inside = 273 + 24 = 297

Initial Pressure 12.5psi. Absolute pressure 14.7psi + 12.5psi = 27.2 psi
ratio 280 / 297 = .942
Absolute pressure outside = .942 * 27.2 = 25.6
Guage pressure outside = 25.6 - 14.7 or 10.9 psi

Honest to God you guys are something else. The one time ESPN and the media actually ARE making a story out of nothing to drive website traffic and I'm the only one criticizing them.

 

[Irish Fam]

And the problem isn't that Brady needed or didn't need the advantage of a deflated ball. It is that there are rules in place to level the playing field and the Patriots possibly purposely ignored those rules - they cheated.

FIFY

Not sure that will be necessary. But thank you.

A couple of possible reasons:

1. The Colts are butthurt whiny bitches who didn't like getting their asses handed to them. Just because no one has complained about weather deflating balls before doesn't mean that weather has never deflated a ball.
While perhaps this is the case, it definitely was not the first time a team has lost badly in cold weather. Hard to believe others have not been "butthurt" after an ass kicking in the cold.

2. Teams are allowed to reinflate the balls over the course of the game. Example: if a QB likes his ball at 13.0 PSI and it deflates to 12.2 as the game progresses, they can add air to bring it back to 13.0. If Brady likes a softer ball, they'd just let the decline in pressure happen naturally and not pump it back up. They're under no obligation to continually check the ball over the course of play.
Again, why has this never been an issue before? Hundreds of games have been played in similar conditions. Surely Brady isn't the first QB to prefer a slightly deflated ball.

3. Amontons' Law of Pressure-Temperature is REAL. Again, why oh why do people keep ignoring this scientifically factual component of this whole thing?
Not sure how you think I am ignoring this concept. In fact, I am addressing it directly. And giving you the benefit of the doubt. If footballs deflate at the rate that you insist, why is this the first time an opposing team has drawn attention to it?

I'm not saying "Brady did it but who cares because he doesn't need an advantage." I'm saying, Brady has whooped on people in much worse and DIDN'T cheat, so why would he risk it this time.

That's what we are all trying to figure out. But that is an incredibly weak defense. "Lance Armstrong won a ton of races already. Why would he start doping now? Why take the risk?"... Who the hell knows, but cheating is cheating is cheating.

 

[wizards8507]

Cheating is cheating is cheating? Really?

Let's see the outrage the next time LeBron takes too many steps before a layup.

I'm sure NHL players never curve their sticks more than the allowed amount.

Remember those all-time great offensive linemen who would report themselves to the officials when they committed a holding penalty that wasn't spotted?

Let's see everyone get pissy the next time a batter leans into a pitch.

 

[gkIrish]

Temp outside: 45F / 7C
Temp inside: 75 F 24 C (for sake of argument)

In Kelvin:
Outside = 273 + 7 = 280
Inside = 273 + 24 = 297

Initial Pressure 12.5psi. Absolute pressure 14.7psi + 12.5psi = 27.2 psi
ratio 280 / 297 = .942
Absolute pressure outside = .942 * 27.2 = 25.6
Guage pressure outside = 25.6 - 14.7 or 10.9 psi

Honest to God you guys are something else. The one time ESPN and the media actually ARE making a story out of nothing to drive website traffic and I'm the only one criticizing them.

You are giving me such a headache. You act like a science experiment has 100% correlation to what happens to NFL balls when A) No one knows how cold the balls are. The outside temperature doesn't mean the balls are the same temperature and B) If your science is right, then the balls in the Ice Bowl would be even flatter. But wait, referees inflate the balls during the game, right?

 

[gkIrish]

Cheating is cheating is cheating? Really?

Let's see the outrage the next time LeBron takes too many steps before a layup.

I'm sure NHL players never curve their sticks more than the allowed amount.

Remember those all-time great offensive linemen who would report themselves to the officials when they committed a holding penalty that wasn't spotted?

Let's see everyone get pissy the next time a batter leans into a pitch.

All-time dumb post.

Lebron traveling is not cheating. That's like saying goaltending is cheating. He isn't paying a referee to ignore his violation of the rules.

NHL players do curve their sticks on occasion. If they get caught, that's a penalty. Because it's cheating.

I'm not even going to keep going.

I'm tempted to search for any posts re: Michael Pineda. I'm sure you were adamant that he should have been punished for using pine tar against the Sox.

 

[wizards8507]

NFL Investigating Whether Patriots Played Game With Properly Inflated Vince Wilfork | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[Irish Fam]

Cheating is cheating is cheating? Really?

Let's see the outrage the next time LeBron takes too many steps before a layup.

I'm sure NHL players never curve their sticks more than the allowed amount.

Remember those all-time great offensive linemen who would report themselves to the officials when they committed a holding penalty that wasn't spotted?

Let's see everyone get pissy the next time a batter leans into a pitch.

Hah. Glad that was all you took from my post.

And maybe I shouldn't have used that phrase. But your defense of "Why would he do it? He didn't need to before!" is comically weak

 

[gkIrish]

Read #16 on this list and shove your science theories: The Beginner’s Guide to DEFLATEGATE «

Avogadro's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tires are bigger than footballs. Footballs don't lose PSI as much as a tire would is what I understand from that.

 

[wizards8507]

I'm tempted to search for any posts re: Michael Pineda. I'm sure you were adamant that he should have been punished for using pine tar against the Sox.

I'm consistent: if they prove the Patriots cheated, the Patriots should be penalized. The existence of deflated footballs does not mean the Patriots intentionally deflated them to get a competitive advantage.

Pineda, on the other hand, had pine tar on his NECK. That's the equivalent of Brady standing on the 40 yard line with a ball needle letting air out while the CBS cameras zoom in on exactly what he's doing.

 

[Irish Fam]

You are giving me such a headache. You act like a science experiment has 100% correlation to what happens to NFL balls when A) No one knows how cold the balls are. The outside temperature doesn't mean the balls are the same temperature and B) If your science is right, then the balls in the Ice Bowl would be even flatter. But wait, referees inflate the balls during the game, right?

Lol no, GK. The teams get to re-inflate their own balls at their leisure. The initial check of the balls by the refs is just for show.

 

[wizards8507]

Read #16 on this list and shove your science theories: The Beginner’s Guide to DEFLATEGATE «

Avogadro's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sorry, but that calculation is incorrect because it uses relative pressure, not absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is pressure in the ball PLUS atmospheric pressure, which the naysayers are ignoring in their calculations.

ETA: Also, you're using Andrew Sharp and Twitter as your scientific experts?

Edit again: He also says that taking air out of the football makes it "lighter," which is idiotic and untrue.

Edit again again: This article helps prove MY point:

The Vikings, for example, were warned by the league after cameras showed their sideline using heaters to warm up footballs during a 12-degree game in November.

Edit a fourth time: Remember when you said Aaron Rodgers doesn't overinflate his balls above the allowed PSI?

I don’t know if I did, because the quarterbacks got tired of them complaining. But he said something that was unique: ‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.’ Because he thinks it’s easier for him to grip. He likes them tight. Of course, he’s got very big hands and you can tell that by watching him play.

 

[irishfan]

This is Spygate 2.0. Pats "cheating" in the same way that everyone else is. Only some butthurt AFC team who can't beat the Pats decided to complain about it.

 

[connor_in]

Lol no, GK. The teams get to re-inflate their own balls at their leisure. The initial check of the balls by the refs is just for show.

so many comedic comments to be made here...too hard to choose which to type

 

[Irish Fam]

so many comedic comments to be made here...too hard to choose which to type

hoping this is a laughing with comment.... loads of sarcasm in my post

 

[gkIrish]

Sorry, but that calculation is incorrect because it uses relative pressure, not absolute pressure. Absolute pressure is pressure in the ball PLUS atmospheric pressure, which the naysayers are ignoring in their calculations.

ETA: Also, you're using Andrew Sharp and Twitter as your scientific experts?

No, I'm using "my engineer friends."


Edit again: He also says that taking air out of the football makes it "lighter," which is idiotic and untrue.

Edit again again: This article helps prove MY point:

I'm not saying it's not possible the cold deflates the balls. I'm sure it does. I just don't see how they could have been deflated so significantly that somehow all of America doesn't understand the science except for you and other Patriots fans.

Edit a fourth time: Remember when you said Aaron Rodgers doesn't overinflate his balls above the allowed PSI? For the love of God again, inflating them before the inspection is not the same thing as doing it after inspection. One is cheating, the other is not

.

 

[bkess8]

Temp outside: 45F / 7C
Temp inside: 75 F 24 C (for sake of argument)

In Kelvin:
Outside = 273 + 7 = 280
Inside = 273 + 24 = 297

Initial Pressure 12.5psi. Absolute pressure 14.7psi + 12.5psi = 27.2 psi
ratio 280 / 297 = .942
Absolute pressure outside = .942 * 27.2 = 25.6
Guage pressure outside = 25.6 - 14.7 or 10.9 psi

Honest to God you guys are something else. The one time ESPN and the media actually ARE making a story out of nothing to drive website traffic and I'm the only one criticizing them.

 

[brick4956]

I seem to remember everyone jumping on usc and Lane Kiffin when they had a deflate gate issue so stop being fucking one sided hypocrites when some team you like gets caught doing the same damn thing it's about the integrity of the game not people being whiny bitches

 

[arrowryan]

Can't blame the weather for this one

Report: Colts complained Patriots used deflated footballs in November - CBSSports.com

 

[Bubbles]

Can we all just agree that the only reason this is an issue is because Tom Brady has tiny little girl hands?

Also....confirmation bias sure is funny to watch.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Pats haters making <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/DeflateGate?src=hash">#DeflateGate</a> custom jerseys (H/T <a href="https://twitter.com/brian_beers">@brian_beers</a>) <a href="http://t.co/zkW2SdTy2b">pic.twitter.com/zkW2SdTy2b</a></p>— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) <a href="https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/557970039257989120">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
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[connor_in]

hoping this is a laughing with comment.... loads of sarcasm in my post

Yes...yes it was

 

[gkIrish]

Listening to Mike Francesca here in NY on the radio and he says the NFL has inspected all 24 balls. He is about as well connected to the NFL as a member of the media can be.

 

[wizards8507]

Jackie Mac calling for BB to be suspended for the Super Bowl.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I am curious which rules you can violate and pay the penalty without it being cheating and which ones you can't. Can anyone offer some guidance on this?

No question that whoever in the NE organization decided to deflate the footballs is either an idiot or just does not have any fucks to give about the public perception of the team (the latter seems to finger Belichick, but hard to imagine that the air in the ball comes from him, not the QB or the QB coach). There is so little advantage to be gained here that it doesn't make sense to me that you would risk the predictable fallout for such a small benefit. That doesn't make the fallout any less dumb, though. Never has a bigger deal been made over a smaller thing.