State Of The UNION!

[Cackalacky]

At what point do you think we should be concerned about the concentration of wealth in the top 1% or even .01%? When they own 99% of the country's wealth?

Robert Reich: Income inequality the defining issue for U.S. - The Denver Post

According to Robert Reich, 95% of the economic gains since 2009 (that's be the start of Obama's presidency) have gone to the top 1%'s net worth. Sooo if all this redistribution is just the worst, why are they doing better than ever and at a better than ever rate?

Obama is a Marxist Buster. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[Buster Bluth]

There are still people that believe the marxist talk that comes out of this President's mouth.

amazing

I too would like you to elaborate.

Also, out of curiosity for someone using Marxism as a pejorative...how much Marx have you read? Obama is a lot of things, but he's not a Marxist.

 

[irishff1014]

I liked what he addressed, especially the upgrading infrastructure mention. But I have zero faith the republican congress will do anything to support the middle class, or any of the other things he mentioned. My bold prediction is that they do what they always do.

This is just a republican/democrat issue. Politics in this country are becoming more and more a joke each. None of them really care about the voters.

 

[irishff1014]

IMO I don't care for the free community college issue. We give kids an education through 12 grade now as it is at a huge cost that most school districts around here and I am sure a lot of places have a vocational programs. It should be on the american people to pay for your college. I think more improvements could some how help in the loan process.

I don't know what kind of stipulations would go with it such as you have to pass all classes with at least 75% if not do they pay the government back. And I can image there is more issues like that to be worried about.

 

[woolybug25]

Hilarious that he states that community college can be "free"...pretty sure somebody has to pay for it.

I'm not concerned with using tax payer money to provide better educational benefits to young people. My concern with this is the question we should always ask, "what's the main goal of this program"?

In my opinion, if the main goal is to decrease the cost of higher education, then is this really going to help? Community colleges are typically only offering associates degrees and the majority of their students transfer to larger universities. This seems to be program that would simply add more students to the pool of higher education. Supply v Demand is a simple concept. If we are adding more students to the world of higher education, then we are increasing demand, hence raising the cost of education.

I would have rather them put a program together for trade schools and better military benefits. Not try to force feed higher education to people that a) don't have the means to accomplish graduation b) may not even know what they want to pursue and c) are only going to school to "make more money".

Regarding "C" above, if the main goal is to "make more money", then give them opportunities to most effectively attain that goal. Going to community college to purse an art history degree isn't the most effective way to do so in my opinion, nor is it the most effective way to use our tax dollars.

My $0.02

 

[ulukinatme]

Hilarious that he states that community college can be "free"...pretty sure somebody has to pay for it.

It's like someone once said "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." Just before ObamaCare I had a pretty decent plan with little to no deductible and didn't pay for generic prescriptions. $120/month for family. The deductible is so high now I'm lucky if I ever meet it and see assistance. Gotta have major surgery before it kicks in and helps now.

 

[goldandblue]

nobody believes it to be an entirely free education. that is unrealistic. rather, view it in the same vein as high school being free for students

taxes will cover the costs. graduating community college students will then be able to pay a higher percentage back than they would typically be able to after they are able to hold a job with greater income due to their associate degree

Flood the market with College Graduates and there will be no greater income. In this country now, we are already dealing with 4 year college grads not being able to find a decent job. A few years ago my wife applied and interviewed for a job not knowing the specifics of pay. At the time she had a 4 year degree in science and this job was pertaining to science. They wanted her to work an odd shift, 1:00 P.M to 11:00 P.M I think it was for $11.50 an hour.... I told her to tell em to get bent. She now has a Masters in Education and teaches which is still not great pay but considering time off, she does pretty well and it fits are family lifestyle perfectly.

 

[Buster Bluth]

It's like someone once said "If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free." Just before ObamaCare I had a pretty decent plan with little to no deductible and didn't pay for generic prescriptions. $120/month for family. The deductible is so high now I'm lucky if I ever meet it and see assistance. Gotta have major surgery before it kicks in and helps now.

Honestly, how do you know that's because of Obamacare specifically?

 

[irish4ever]

Hilarious that he states that community college can be "free"...pretty sure somebody has to pay for it.

Didn't you know money grows on trees?! You just have to go deep into the forrest to find it evidently. The U.S. is $18.1 TRILLION in debt and growing each minute, what the fv<k is another billion or 2 added to it?!? Fv<k I'll never be able to retire because I'll have to help take care all the people just looking for another GOV'T HANDOUT, which is what this administration is all about!

 

[ulukinatme]

Honestly, how do you know that's because of Obamacare specifically?

What other factors would cause my deductible to go from nothing to $2000/year? My monthly premium was going up every year regardless and it continues to do so, but the deductible skyrocketed after the introduction of Obamacare. With a deductible that high it's basically just insurance against an accident or major surgery, it does nothing to assist with the billions of visits to the doctor I have for my wife and kids.

 

[woolybug25]

One thing I find ironic about Obamacare is that a lot of people that don't like it, point to high deductables as their reasoning. When a high deductible world was inevitable. Furthermore, you would think conservatives would rather have insurance more indicative of personal responsibility.

Which means, wouldn't a low cost - high deductible plan, where the onus of making proper health decisions was on the patient, not the taxpayer be the better plan? Seems like a lot of people are just used to getting their money taken pretax and not really doing the math on how much actual cost is involved with full service health plans.

Personally, I like the idea of pairing a company matched HSA (pretax of course) with a low monthly cost plan with a high deductible. Let me make my healthcare choices. The only downside is that the healthcare world needs to start following suit. By making quotes and cost estimates easier and more accurate. I want doctors to make as much as they want, but I want their services and associated costs to be clear. Competition is a good thing.

 

[Buster Bluth]

What other factors would cause my deductible to go from nothing to $2000/year? My monthly premium was going up every year regardless and it continues to do so, but the deductible skyrocketed after the introduction of Obamacare.

Corporations gunna corporate?

Employers cut health coverage, find scapegoat: Obamacare - LA Times

According to an AP poll released over the weekend, three-quarters of those with private or employer-based insurance think the Affordable Care Act is the reason for changes in their health coverage for 2014.

Some companies have been blaming the act for forcing them to roll back health coverage if it exceeds "Cadillac plan" standards. This is curious, because the employer tax on Cadillac plans, which is getting fingered as the culprit, doesn't start until 2018. If your company is cutting back your benefits now, it's because it wants to cut its payroll costs, period.

High deductibles and Obamacare derangement syndrome - LA Times

The truth is that the rapid spread of "high-deductible" health plans (based on IRS regulations, that's technically any plan with a deductible of $1,250 per person and $2,500 per family, or above) is very much an artifact of the pre-ACA healthcare landscape. Indeed, one of the goals of the ACA is to relieve the economic pressures that prompted employers to jack up deductibles on their employees toward this level every year.

The evidence for rising deductibles as a pre-existing condition of American healthcare is incontrovertible. As the Kaiser Family Foundation reported in 2012, the percentage of workers in employer plans with a single deductible of $1,000 or higher had risen to 34% from 10% since 2006; in the same period the percentage with deductibles of $2,000 of higher had risen to 14% from 3%. The average deductibles for all employees had nearly doubled to $1,097 from $584.

The underlying idea, of course, is to shift healthcare expenses from the employers to the employees, while discouraging usage by the latter. There's another driver: the high-deductible trend, as we reported back in 2008, owes much to a libertarian insurance entrepreneur named J. Patrick Rooney, who saw business opportunity in the sale of tax-advantaged health savings accounts. A Republican Congress obligingly passed a law providing a tax advantage to HSAs -- if they were paired with qualified high-deducible health plans (also sold by Rooney).

The point is that calling high-deductible plans as outgrowths of the ACA is just dead wrong.

 

[DonnieNarco]

This is just a republican/democrat issue. Politics in this country are becoming more and more a joke each. None of them really care about the voters.

They care about the people who fund them. They care about the corporations and lobbyists. American public doesn't matter when people like the Koch Brothers can convince the public to vote in their interest.

 

[DonnieNarco]

There are still people that believe the marxist talk that comes out of this President's mouth.

amazing

Please explain what makes him a Marxist. Also explain what a Marxist is. I have a feeling you are confused.

 

[GoIrish41]

What other factors would cause my deductible to go from nothing to $2000/year? My monthly premium was going up every year regardless and it continues to do so, but the deductible skyrocketed after the introduction of Obamacare. With a deductible that high it's basically just insurance against an accident or major surgery, it does nothing to assist with the billions of visits to the doctor I have for my wife and kids.

Could be one of two things.

You are suggesting the deductible went up as a result of Obamacare.

But, perhaps you might consider that your insurance company used the shift in policy to turn the screw a few extra turns.

I mean look at the chart that Buster posted. They have been screwing people for years. Do you think they are beyond screwing consumers and allowing them to blame it on Obama?

 

[ozzman]

Flood the market with College Graduates and there will be no greater income. In this country now, we are already dealing with 4 year college grads not being able to find a decent job. A few years ago my wife applied and interviewed for a job not knowing the specifics of pay. At the time she had a 4 year degree in science and this job was pertaining to science. They wanted her to work an odd shift, 1:00 P.M to 11:00 P.M I think it was for $11.50 an hour.... I told her to tell em to get bent. She now has a Masters in Education and teaches which is still not great pay but considering time off, she does pretty well and it fits are family lifestyle perfectly.

Just what we need, more entitled, college educated people that demand higher paying jobs. This graph will just explode even more with unemployed college educated people.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>For the first time in history, a majority of jobless workers 25 and over have attended some college <a href="http://t.co/HhGg4peqE2">pic.twitter.com/HhGg4peqE2</a></p>— zerohedge (@zerohedge) <a href="https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/557727992710189057">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[pkt77242]

Just what we need, more entitled, college educated people that demand higher paying jobs. This graph will just explode even more with unemployed college educated people.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>For the first time in history, a majority of jobless workers 25 and over have attended some college <a href="http://t.co/HhGg4peqE2">pic.twitter.com/HhGg4peqE2</a></p>— zerohedge (@zerohedge) <a href="https://twitter.com/zerohedge/status/557727992710189057">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That is very misleading as it lumps people who attended some college in with college graduates. You need the degree for the college education to matter. Fail.

Here is the difference between unemployment rates for College Grads vs HS grads

Here is a BLS one from 2014 that also looks at wages.

 

[Ndaccountant]

This whole college thing is fascinating to watch play out. Politics aside, let's look at the facts of the situation (not sure if these were covered last night or not since I didn't watch, but based on news this morning, I get the message).

According to the collegeboard latest data on public institutions (2012 year, second and third quartile represent middle class $30K - $106K in income, fourth quartile is $106K+)

1 - Net yearly tuition and fees for two year college for two lowest income quartiles: $0
2 - Net yearly tuition and fees for four year college for two lowest income quartiles: $0 for lowest quartile, $2,325 for second quartile
3 - Yearly American Opportunity Tax Credit for bottom two quartiles (fully paid regardless if you paid tax or not) - $2,500
4 - Net Full cost of attendance for two year college for two lowest income quartiles: $9,500 per year
5 - Net Full cost of attendance for two year college for two highest income quartiles: $13,500 per year
6 - Net Full cost of attendance for four year college for two lowest income quartiles: $13,800 per year
7 - Net Full cost of attendance for four year college for two highest income quartiles: $21,500 per year

8 - Total Grants & aid for two year college by quartile:
1 - $5,700 + $2,500 tax credit
2 - $3,200 + $2,500 tax credit
3 - $1,000 & maybe tax a tax credit
4 - $800 & most likely no tax credit

9 - Total Grants & aid for four year college by quartile:
1 - $10,000 + $2,500 tax credit
2 - $6,750 + $2,500 tax credit
3 - $3,000 & maybe tax a tax credit
4 - $2,500 & most likely no tax credit

10 - According to the GAO, the median income of a 529 college savings plan owner is $145,000 and the tax break associated with the account distributions is estimated to be $3,000 (not clear in the data if that is based off ordinary rates or capital gain rates).


What the data tells me:
- After figuring in tax credits paid, the bottom two quartiles are paying negative tuition for both two year and four year schools (tuition covered by grants, tax credit makes it negative). The same could be true for the third quartile for two year schools, depending on filing status and other tax information and is most likely not the case for the highest quartile for either two or four year schools.
- Room and board is not fully covered by grants for any quartile, though the first and second quartile do receive some grants to cover these expenses. With that said, one could argue that a large portion of these expenses are more "living expenses" that would be incurred whether enrolled or not (food, shelter, etc). The cost difference would depend heavily on current living conditions and represent a portion of the opportunity cost of going to school. These costs, in theory, should be paid off if you believe you will attain better employment status due to the degree and could be offset by living at home and "staying local".
- At four year schools, the bottom quartiles are getting anywhere from 2X to 4X the amount of aid

I have two point of contention here:
- What are we getting with this free tuition proposal at two year schools? The bottom two quartiles don't pay tuition as it is and it's hard to decipher if the grants they receive to offset tuition would continue to be paid to offset room and board in the future. My hunch is no, it would not continue, at least not in full. Thus, what's the point?
- Removing the 529 tax deduction is beyond a really bad idea. Yes, it is true that the median income of those utilizing a 529 plan is in the top quartile of income ($145K). But, the distribution below the median tells an interesting story. Over 60% of the bottom 50% (or 30% of the total if you prefer) make less than $100K. Depending on filing status, these people may or may not be eligible for tax credits (the same tax credits the proposal wishes to expand). Plus, the median tax benefit is only $3,000, which when added to total grant and taxes above, still means the bottom two quartiles are getting significantly more assistance. There is a real chance here that people in the $80K-$100K range will get squeezed out of the 529 tax break while not receiving the additional tax credit.

More over, the median retirement asset balance for a 529 plan owner is just north of $200K. That tells me that top 1% really aren't using 529 plans. Trusts are the more preferred approach and will continue to be with or without the 529 tax change.

We know we have a savings problem in this country and 529 plans provide people the opportunity to save for college. Considering the average retirement balance is only $200K among 529 account owners, the super wealthy are not getting the break here. It is the upper middle class group that is getting the break, which is helping to offset the higher net COA they pay compared to the bottom quartiles. Why would anyone think this is a good idea to reduce the incentives for saving for college for people clearly not swimming in excess wealth? Sure, you will have people still save for college with or without the plans. But my hunch is that they would move out of 529 age based plans into easy to understand and obtain vehicles like CD's, which will only lower their overall return and create additional savings shortfall. Just a really dumb idea IMO.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Corporations gunna corporate?

Employers cut health coverage, find scapegoat: Obamacare - LA Times



High deductibles and Obamacare derangement syndrome - LA Times

Every work and budget for a major corporation? I would love for you to sit in my shoes for a week to see if your perspective of "Corporations gunna corporate?" would change at all.

There is no doubt that corporations have too much influence over policy at both the state and federal level and I see that myself at work. But blaming evil corporations for something like this is laughably ignorant.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Every work and budget for a major corporation? I would love for you to sit in my shoes for a week to see if your perspective of "Corporations gunna corporate?" would change at all.

There is no doubt that corporations have too much influence over policy at both the state and federal level and I see that myself at work. But blaming evil corporations for something like this is laughably ignorant.

Wait huh? The guy wondered if anything other than Obamacare could explain the rise in premiums. Maybe, hence the question mark, corporations are reducing their costs independent of Obamacare in response to the ever-increasing costs of medical care, hence the graph in the post before that one. I didn't exactly go on a tirade.

 

[woolybug25]

Every work and budget for a major corporation? I would love for you to sit in my shoes for a week to see if your perspective of "Corporations gunna corporate?" would change at all.

There is no doubt that corporations have too much influence over policy at both the state and federal level and I see that myself at work. But blaming evil corporations for something like this is laughably ignorant.

I think you are missing his point, furthermore, i'm not sure "laughably ignorant" would be considered polite discourse between friends. No reason to lower the level of communication. Your points above are very thought out and interesting, then you go and kill it with comments like above. I don't get it.

 

[ulukinatme]

Corporations gunna corporate?

Employers cut health coverage, find scapegoat: Obamacare - LA Times



High deductibles and Obamacare derangement syndrome - LA Times

LA Times, Michael Hiltzik, right? No thanks, I'll pass.
I won't argue that corporations likely tried to pass the buck here, but there likely wouldn't have been an excuse/reason to pass the buck if Obamacare hadn't come around.

 

[connor_in]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/RvapcF1jQu">pic.twitter.com/RvapcF1jQu</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557738372186505216">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/YbkYuHRZTz">pic.twitter.com/YbkYuHRZTz</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557734367813185539">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/gl0xOS9EXK">pic.twitter.com/gl0xOS9EXK</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557732255599431680">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/hPmTeKdUy5">pic.twitter.com/hPmTeKdUy5</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557731083937411073">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/VNyeycgIcW">pic.twitter.com/VNyeycgIcW</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557727824157892608">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/EoH07xCpjo">pic.twitter.com/EoH07xCpjo</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557727270635601920">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/vyO3UxnCtD">pic.twitter.com/vyO3UxnCtD</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557725631384150016">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en data-scribe-reduced-action-queue="><p>Obama translation <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SOTU?src=hash">#SOTU</a> <a href="http://t.co/mvfsCvhJwc">pic.twitter.com/mvfsCvhJwc</a></p>— John Stossel (@FBNStossel) <a href="https://twitter.com/FBNStossel/status/557724720985280512">January 21, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ND NYC]

.

 

[pkt77242]

LA Times, Michael Hiltzik, right? No thanks, I'll pass.
I won't argue that corporations likely tried to pass the buck here, but there likely wouldn't have been an excuse/reason to pass the buck if Obamacare hadn't come around.

That isn't completely true, companies had already started the process of raising deductibles before the ACA.

Any interesting graphs of premiums, workers contributions to them, company contributions and inflation

 

[connor_in]

no matter what side your on...not bad!

you want us to log into your AOL email?


you still have AOL? a dial up modem?

 

[ND NYC]

.

 

[ulukinatme]

That isn't completely true, companies had already started the process of raising deductibles before the ACA.

Any interesting graphs of premiums, workers contributions to them, company contributions and inflation

Sure, but some of the biggest jumps occurred as the discussions and voting were going on for the ACA. The period from '08 till the 2011 calendar year after the bill was signed into law (2011 would be the first year where the changes would affect health care since workers were already locked in for 2010 when the bill was signed) are where some of the largest jumps occurred in the deductible.

I'm not really concerned with premiums. Yeah, they've been steadily climbing for years, way before Obama was even in office. Premiums can suck, but an extra $10-15 a month isn't going to kill me, we just tighten the belts or budget better. Going from virtually no deductible to $2000+ means I'm paying out of pocket pretty much all year for every doctor visit unless we have a major issue, I'm not getting that 70-80% assistance from Anthem until that deductible is met.

 

[connor_in]

find the pic you want somewhere on the internet
get the actual pic's internet address (probaly will end in a .jpg...some others .gif, .png)
highlight and copy said address
go to IE reply box and just above it, just right of middle click on small yellow box that looks like picture of mountains and sun
paste the pic address in the internet address box that appears there and hit OK

then type in comments or not in comments box as per usual

then submit

 

[IrishJayhawk]

find the pic you want somewhere on the internet
get the actual pic's internet address (probaly will end in a .jpg...some others .gif, .png)
highlight and copy said address
go to IE reply box and just above it, just right of middle click on small yellow box that looks like picture of mountains and sun
paste the pic address in the internet address box that appears there and hit OK

then type in comments or not in comments box as per usual

then submit

Sweet...it works.