In All Four Losses

[Bluto]

ND's suspensions, injuries, and loss of confidence will prohibit anymore wins this year.

Playing Matuska and Hayes along with G Martini just isn't going to win at USC. Tough year because there was so much optimism after Stanford but that's what happens in college football.

USC and ND are about a wash at this point in terms of talent. ND does however have much more depth. It think USC is down to something like 50 scholarship players. They are starting a bunch of freshmen on the o line and have about zero depth on the d line special teams ect. If ND avoids big turnovers and it's close going into the fourth quarter ND will pull away. Should be a good game.

 

[IrishLax]

USC and ND are about a wash at this point in terms of talent. ND does however have much more depth. It think USC is down to something like 50 scholarship players. They are starting a bunch of freshmen on the o line and have about zero depth on the d line special teams ect. If ND avoids big turnovers and it's close going into the fourth quarter ND will pull away. Should be a good game.

We don't have much more depth actually, we're at about 60 healthy scholarship players ourselves.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Lax,
Do you think Kelly should make changes to his coaching staff after this season?

 

[GreenSox04]

Got into detail of how bad we are with a Michigan fam. Meat chicken went onto have too much to drink for a Sunday and I put him where he needed to be, we need to grow in play calling. An unrealistic and honest thought?

 

[koonja]

What's even more sad is we miss out on elite talent but think we're getting RKGs, glue guys, etc. You'd expect those types to be more team leaders since they're usually less selfish and not just about getting to the NFL. Not the case. I think youth is part of it, but crap flows down hill.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

We don't have much more depth actually, we're at about 60 healthy scholarship players ourselves.

Combination of terrible recruiting (roster management) and some of the absolute shittiest luck of all time.

 

[koonja]

I'm usually all about context. But at a certain point, when enough time has passed, the excuses have to stop and it is black and white. Aren't we the 'unluckiest' team every year?

 

[Irish#1]

I said this to Damefan and then he ended up blocking me on facebook. You are right let's wait till next year when the same softies come back and nothing changes.

Facebook..............lol

I have only read the first five or six posts, so I may be repeating someone's thoughts. I was at the game, so I didn't see any replays, comments, etc.. I personally think most of this is simply two things, the youth of this team and fundamentals. A lack of or poor fundamentals is nothing new with youth.

I.E., Our defense is trying to tackle high instead of going for the legs. That's why players are getting the extra yardage and looking like Heisman candidates.

A lot of predictions had us at 7-5 or 8-4. The disturbing part is that the losses are coming one after the other.

 

[IrishLax]

Lax,
Do you think Kelly should make changes to his coaching staff after this season?

Yeah, I think there are about 3 people that need to go or at minimum get reassigned.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm usually all about context. But at a certain point, when enough time has passed, the excuses have to stop and it is black and white. Aren't we the 'unluckiest' team every year?

My luck comment was basically towards the DL. It's a classic Coulda-Woulda-Shoulda situation. Potential to have Lynch, Ishaq, Tuitt, Nix, Schwenke, Vanderdoes, Day, Jones, Rochelle, Springmann, Hounshell. The true frosh would be a complete afterthought had it played out as listed. Losing guys to injury, transfers, early departure...those things happen. But at the rate at which they've happened to 1) elite talent and 2) one position group is just absurd and there's no logical explanation, imo. With that DL, suddenly the LB aren't so bad, the safeties aren't so bad, and the corners would be even better. To continue the what if game...what if the staff took Schutt, what if Darby signed, what if KVR didn't get suspended, what if they took Bolden, what if Grace/Councell/etc didn't have major injury issues...? These things add up and can crush a program. It's not all dumb luck. But it certainly can be argued.

I go back to my original comment: It's a combination of bad roster management and bad luck. I don't think there's any other way to explain it. This team is very young right now and very thin. And it's hurting them in close games. Turnovers, poor tackling, poor execution on the place-kicking team...I think that's on the coaches and poor player execution.

 

[dublinirish]

Yeah, I think there are about 3 people that need to go or at minimum get reassigned.

care to name them? Booker perhaps?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I haven't been crazy about Bob Elliot. He was with the safeties and now linebackers. Both have been underwhelming (although you can't put all the LB woes on him...most of that is poor recruiting and subpar DL play too).

 

[IrishLax]

care to name them? Booker perhaps?

I think Booker -- at minimum -- needs to be reassigned. I think we need a real special teams coach.

I think Elliot has to go... great guy, but coaching just "OLB" doesn't really make sense to me and there's some other stuff where I just don't think he's effective right now.

I don't "blame" Elston for a lot of the issues on the DL, but even the original starters when healthy were beginning to stagnate a little. Not much development of pass rushing moves. I think he needs to go.

I'm not sure what LaFleur really does. I'm assuming he's in the press box? But I don't get why Kelly is still having to do all of the coaching of Golson in-game. I don't like it and at minimum his role should be refined some.

Kelly needs to move heaven and earth to get Jeff Quinn back as the OC in the offseason. If that means Denbrock gets pissed and leaves that'd be a bummer because I really like him as a WR coach, but this addition is obvious.

 

[goldandblue]

Everyone complaining can blow it out there ass.... most of the game we were playing 5 true freshman on D. Trumbetti, Hayes, Matuska, Morgan, Tranquill.

What the hell do you expect from them? we lost two key starters before the season even started Williams, Russell. Somehow, someway, they managed to piece together a solid defense. as the season has dragged on we have lost other critical starters in Schmidt, Day, Cage, now Jones.

I mean really.... What the hell do you expect from a defense that is primarily composed of underclassmen???

 

[bkess8]

I mean really.... What the hell do you expect from a defense that is primarily composed of underclassmen???

Short answer is solid tackling IMO. I understand them being underclassmen but that is no excuse for all the missed tackles that led to big plays.

 

[zbikowski88]

I'm with Lax, Kelly needs to hire Jeff Quinn or someone else to call the offensive plays next year and beyond. Kelly needs to focus on the team as a whole more than putting most of his time on the offense. Let Denbrock coach the tightends and receivers if Kelly does hire Quinn. A special teams coach is needed, I really don't see what Booker does for this team, coaching tight ends and special teams just seems like an odd combination. Hire a coach who entirely focuses on special teams.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I think one of BK's biggest mistakes over the last couple of games was not sticking with Hunter Smith at holder. Malik hasn't done any better and what's worse is I think it's actually messed with Brindza. There needs to be a chemistry between snapper, holder, and kicker and I think BK royally F'd with it. It's been bad. Real bad.

ND should be 9-2 had it not been for the place kicking debacle. Even with a poor defense and mediocre-to-bad QB play, these last two games were winnable and came down to a kick here or there.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'm with Lax, Kelly needs to hire Jeff Quinn or someone else to call the offensive plays next year and beyond. Kelly needs to focus on the team as a whole more than putting most of his time on the offense. Let Denbrock coach the tightends and receivers if Kelly does hire Quinn. A special teams coach is needed, I really don't see what Booker does for this team, coaching tight ends and special teams just seems like an odd combination. Hire a coach who entirely focuses on special teams.

Position coaches normally double as the special teams coach. In fact I think they almost always do, no?

 

[zbikowski88]

Position coaches normally double as the special teams coach. In fact I think they almost always do, no?

You're probably right but it just seems like an odd combo with coaching tightends

 

[wizards8507]

ND should be 9-2 had it not been for the place kicking debacle. Even with a poor defense and mediocre-to-bad QB play, these last two games were winnable and came down to a kick here or there.

I'm more concerned with the fact that these games came down to our place kicking situation in the first place. Against teams like Northwestern and Louisville, Notre Dame should be winning by a wide enough margin that you can botch a hold here or there. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with the botched holds, but I think it's a good amount down my list of issues with this program.

 

[Irish#1]

I think Booker -- at minimum -- needs to be reassigned. I think we need a real special teams coach.

I think Elliot has to go... great guy, but coaching just "OLB" doesn't really make sense to me and there's some other stuff where I just don't think he's effective right now.

I don't "blame" Elston for a lot of the issues on the DL, but even the original starters when healthy were beginning to stagnate a little. Not much development of pass rushing moves. I think he needs to go.

I'm not sure what LaFleur really does. I'm assuming he's in the press box? But I don't get why Kelly is still having to do all of the coaching of Golson in-game. I don't like it and at minimum his role should be refined some.

Kelly needs to move heaven and earth to get Jeff Quinn back as the OC in the offseason. If that means Denbrock gets pissed and leaves that'd be a bummer because I really like him as a WR coach, but this addition is obvious.

That's his modus operandi.

If it's like most game day operations, LaFleur is the OC eye in the sky looking at the defense and relaying what adjustments the D is making against specific formations, how the D reacts and suggest what plays might work.

 

[Irish#1]

Combination of terrible recruiting (roster management) and some of the absolute shittiest luck of all time.

I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "the harder your work, the luckier you are".

Because of the targeting, do we lose Morgan for the first half or entire game? Martini played pretty well, so I'm not sure that we're worse off at MLB.

 

[IrishLax]

Position coaches normally double as the special teams coach. In fact I think they almost always do, no?

Yes, almost always. Very few places have a special teams coach that doesn't double as a positional coach. Usually, it's somewhere on the defensive side of the ball.

I think what you'd do is go out and make an outside hire with experience as a proven special teams coach and let him double at his natural position (DL/LB/CB/S) and then readjust staff accordingly. That might mean Booker could stay strictly as the TE coach or move to another position.

Booker played safety and had all of his coaching experience prior to ND at safety. So I think you move him there, Cooks coaches CBs (and still safeties a bit too... lord knows they need the help), and then you have Quinn coach TEs in addition to being OC (Quinn's experience is primarily as an OL coach which means he could REALLY help the TEs with blocking).

Then all you need to do is figure out how you want your front 7 coached and make another hire accordingly. VanGorder should really be able to coach the LBs on his own.

Seems straightforward on paper, IMO.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm more concerned with the fact that these games came down to our place kicking situation in the first place. Against teams like Northwestern and Louisville, Notre Dame should be winning by a wide enough margin that you can botch a hold here or there. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with the botched holds, but I think it's a good amount down my list of issues with this program.

This is true. I just feel the team/staff need some grace since they're dealing with a terribly young and thin defense. Yes, they should've recruited better. But this is the hand they're dealt. Having a good offense (ranked 34th nationally; 34.7 ppg) should be good enough to beat teams like NW and UL, but not when you have a god awful defense (ranked 73rd; 27.5 ppg). That's why these games are coming down to ST and place kicking just isn't getting it done.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I'm a firm believer in the old adage, "the harder your work, the luckier you are".

Because of the targeting, do we lose Morgan for the first half or entire game? Martini played pretty well, so I'm not sure that we're worse off at MLB.

First half, I believe.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Yes, almost always. Very few places have a special teams coach that doesn't double as a positional coach. Usually, it's somewhere on the defensive side of the ball.

I think what you'd do is go out and make an outside hire with experience as a proven special teams coach and let him double at his natural position (DL/LB/CB/S) and then readjust staff accordingly. That might mean Booker could stay strictly as the TE coach or move to another position.

Booker played safety and had all of his coaching experience prior to ND at safety. So I think you move him there, Cooks coaches CBs (and still safeties a bit too... lord knows they need the help), and then you have Quinn coach TEs in addition to being OC (Quinn's experience is primarily as an OL coach which means he could REALLY help the TEs with blocking).

Then all you need to do is figure out how you want your front 7 coached and make another hire accordingly. VanGorder should really be able to coach the LBs on his own.

Seems straightforward on paper, IMO.

Aside from place kicking, ST haven't been bad this year.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm more concerned with the fact that these games came down to our place kicking situation in the first place. Against teams like Northwestern and Louisville, Notre Dame should be winning by a wide enough margin that you can botch a hold here or there. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with the botched holds, but I think it's a good amount down my list of issues with this program.

Every single one of the top teams this year has played some close games against inferior opponents. This happens virtually every year (save FSU last year and maybe Vince Young Texas?)... even "world beater" teams inevitably play a couple really close games against scrubs. Go look at TCU vs Kansas, Ohio State vs everyone, Bama, FSU, etc. etc.

There is no "should be" retro-justification for "hey, kicking isn't a big issue, because we should have a 28 point comfortable lead..." because you are inevitably going to find yourself in a tight game a couple times a year. Knowing that, kicking = wins every year, regardless of other flaws/strengths.

Against Northwestern, kicking was worth multiple TDs. Against Louisville, it was less of a factor, but it was still the difference in and of itself.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Every single one of the top teams this year has played some close games against inferior opponents. This happens virtually every year (save FSU last year and maybe Vince Young Texas?)... even "world beater" teams inevitably play a couple really close games against scrubs. Go look at TCU vs Kansas, Ohio State vs everyone, Bama, FSU, etc. etc.

There is no "should be" retro-justification for "hey, kicking isn't a big issue, because we should have a 28 point comfortable lead..." because you are inevitably going to find yourself in a tight game a couple times a year. Knowing that, kicking = wins every year, regardless of other flaws/strengths.

Against Northwestern, kicking was worth multiple TDs. Against Louisville, it was less of a factor, but it was still the difference in and of itself.

I agree with your post but it wasn't "multiple TDs." I counted 8 missed points in the NW game: a blocked XP, a failed 2-pt conversion where BK should've just kicked the XP, and two missed FGs. Regardless, it's enough to change the outcome of that game and you're right, every year there are games that come down to kicking...you need to be able to convert. In the UL game it was one missed FG, but it was a huge one.

 

[phgreek]

I agree with your post but it wasn't "multiple TDs." I counted 8 missed points in the NW game: a blocked XP, a failed 2-pt conversion where BK should've just kicked the XP, and two missed FGs. Regardless, it's enough to change the outcome of that game and you're right, every year there are games that come down to kicking...you need to be able to convert. In the UL game it was one missed FG, but it was a huge one.

punting...failed to flip the field multiple times from possitions where a cheerleader could have thrown it farther than he kicked it.

 

[IrishLax]

I agree with your post but it wasn't "multiple TDs." I counted 8 missed points in the NW game: a blocked XP, a failed 2-pt conversion where BK should've just kicked the XP, and two missed FGs. Regardless, it's enough to change the outcome of that game and you're right, every year there are games that come down to kicking...you need to be able to convert. In the UL game it was one missed FG, but it was a huge one.

3 points for the XP returned the other way, two missed field goals, and then net 4 points by NW not needing a TD on last drive for victory condition on account of Kelly forgoing the XP because he thought the unit would fail.

3+3+3+4=2 TDs would be needed to overcome the points lost to kicking. Even if you don't believe in "win condition" statistics and just look at straight points it's 3+3+3+1(not going for the XP)+1(Northwestern getting the extra point to put them in range to tie instead of what they would've done down 12 in that situation) which is 11 points and two scores (although you could get away covering that with only one being a TD + conversion).