Will 2012 be the peak of the Kelly era?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There's no reason to expect the team to be playoff material next year. There are too many fatal flaws, especially with the safeties and defensive line.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I don't see how the probable 8-4 or 7-5 is anything acceptable for a coach in his 4th year here. The schedule wasn't even that difficult.

 

[Irish2155]

boy, I had no idea how much we'd miss Joe, but his absence is very noticeable. Our linebacker is a 5 star and has all the potential but not Joe.

To be honest, I can't remember the last time our defense was good. Stanford?

Defense gets worse, and worse, and worse...every week...

 

[Irish2155]

There's no reason to expect the team to be playoff material next year. There are too many fatal flaws, especially with the safeties and defensive line.

I agree with this. NW lost is unacceptable and our defense won't stop the milk man...

 

[Bluto]

My Kelly stock is off hold and being sold. Four years in and these are his players, his program, his offense, his defense, his inabilty to start hot in the 1st quarter, his inabity to get a qb prepared, his inabililty to dominate inferior opposition. Outside of 2012, his teams wilt during the last half of the season. I have fully suppported him up until now. We are looking at yet another 8-5 or 9-4 season. Lousiville and USC will destroy this defense. We might actually be averaging more TOs a game than yards per attempt rushing per game.

My disillusionment is vast right now and I think we have reached our nadir with Kelly.

Actually over the course of his tenure ND has tended to finish strong at the end of the season if I'm remembering things correctly.

 

[irishff1014]

boy, I had no idea how much we'd miss Joe, but his absence is very noticeable. Our linebacker is a 5 star and has all the potential but not Joe.

To be honest, I can't remember the last time our defense was good. Stanford?

Defense gets worse, and worse, and worse...every week...

Joe was in for UNC and Navy and look at the defense. I am not saying that Joe being out didn't effect it some but lets face there are more problems besides just Joe.

 

[gkIrish]

I don't see how the probable 8-4 or 7-5 is anything acceptable for a coach in his 4th year here. The schedule wasn't even that difficult.

Yeah this is the scary thing. We are going to play 3 teams max that finish the season in the top 25 and Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue, Navy, Rice, UNC are all really bad teams.

Stanford lost AGAIN today btw.

 

[GATTACA!]

Yes, Joe's superior ability to play MLB kept Morgan off the field. The best all around player usually plays in team sports. That shouldn't be a revelation and you shouldn't be upset that Joe Schmidt beat out the better athlete who at this time is the lesser player. Had Joe not gotten hurt, you wouldn't even have mentioned him with the other under performers. If anything, Kelly should have been working him in more but the team hasn't had leads enough to play the depth chart so I'm not even sure that is applicable..

And I wouldn't worry about Morgan being green going into next year. I'm sure Schmidt will be back and pick up where he left off. If Morgan improves enough over the last 3 games of this season and through spring ball and wins the spot, fantastic. If not he will get more part time work next year and he'll be ready as a junior to call the shots in the middle when Joe is gone.

I absolutely would have mentioned Morgan regardless of Schmidt's injury, and already was. Im not arguing that because of the mental side Schmidt probably was the better player at the start of the season. That is why i would have thrown Morgan out there to take his lumps, by now you would have a much better player than late season Schmidt.

You act like we where in tight 14-10 games. It wasn't the offense that has been struggling its the D. Idk what fantastic mental plays from Schmidt i was missing, but they clearly where not making as big of an impact as you believe. What i had seen was our linebackers pathetic ability to drop and cover over the middle, something that can be attributed partly to Schmidt's lack of athleticism.

Overall i believe Kelly places FAR to much value on a player simply because they are an upperclassmen. It almost seems like he doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings. Kelly needs to simply play the best players!

 

[T Town Tommy]

Where there's talent, there's hope. Not enough talent right now, but better than what Kelly had when he came. Depth has to get better as well. If anything, I do think Kelly has flatlined as a HC right now. He has to get better in order to lead the Irish. It starts with him, and up to this point I haven't really heard him take the lions share of the blame. Maybe he needs to man up and take some heat off his players.

 

[Cackalacky]

Actually over the course of his tenure ND has tended to finish strong at the end of the season if I'm remembering things correctly.

To be clear I am not talking strictly wins and losses. There are plenty of wins against mediocre teams and losses against bad teams and mediocre play in both.

 

[Irish2155]

Yeah this is the scary thing. We are going to play 3 teams max that finish the season in the top 25 and Michigan, Northwestern, Purdue, Navy, Rice, UNC are all really bad teams.

Stanford lost AGAIN today btw.

Damn, I agree, can't think of anything to defend it...today's loss was a really, really bad one. It was a bad lose.

If we beat UL and USC to win out...it'll be ok. I bet we lose next week BECAUSE we are at home then win the week after at USC...we got to get away.

 

[pkt77242]

My Kelly stock is off hold and being sold. Four years in and these are his players, his program, his offense, his defense, his inabilty to start hot in the 1st quarter, his inabity to get a qb prepared, his inabililty to dominate inferior opposition. Outside of 2012, his teams wilt during the last half of the season. I have fully suppported him up until now. We are looking at yet another 8-5 or 9-4 season. Lousiville and USC will destroy this defense. We might actually be averaging more TOs a game than yards per attempt rushing per game.

My disillusionment is vast right now and I think we have reached our nadir with Kelly.

I will wait till next week to make a decision. If the team comes out next week not playing hard and acting like they have given up, then I will sell on Kelly.

 

[Irish2155]

It's that WTF loss, happens most years...keep it together next year...all will be good. Just wont have a running back to block though.

 

[IrishLax]

If he doesn't make a run next year, then yes.

We've had serious recruiting deficiencies on defense that are coming home to roost. Kelly originally inherited NFL caliber guys like Te'o, Smith, Blanton, Walls, Fleming, Nix, Ian Williams, KLM, Shembo... and the talent level now is worse than what he had from Weis at every position but QB. Next year sets up really well and that's his window. If he doesn't go 11-1 next year he might as well quit.

The fact that 7-5 is a more likely outcome than 9-3 after starting 7-1 is just so sad. The defense is very injured (and recruiting has clearly been shit on that side of the ball which is why we have no depth). 7-5 calls into question whether we'll even hold this class together.

 

[Junkhead]

All I ask is to have a good offense and defense in the same season? Does it ever happen at ND? lol

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There's no reason to think next year will be better though other than blind optimism.

 

[BobbyMac]

I absolutely would have mentioned Morgan regardless of Schmidt's injury, and already was. Im not arguing that because of the mental side Schmidt probably was the better player at the start of the season. That is why i would have thrown Morgan out there to take his lumps, by now you would have a much better player than late season Schmidt.

You act like we where in tight 14-10 games. It wasn't the offense that has been struggling its the D. Idk what fantastic mental plays from Schmidt i was missing, but they clearly where not making as big of an impact as you believe. What i had seen was our linebackers pathetic ability to drop and cover over the middle, something that can be attributed partly to Schmidt's lack of athleticism.

Overall i believe Kelly places FAR to much value on a player simply because they are an upperclassmen. It almost seems like he doesn't want to hurt anyones feelings. Kelly needs to simply play the best players!

I know what you are saying. I agree with this line of thinking with Cam and today with Collinsworth but Joe Schmidt is a better player than Nyles Morgan right now. Nyles had no chance of being a better player than Joe this season. Hopefully he learns quickly on the fly and competes hard for the spot next year.

.

 

[pkt77242]

There's no reason to think next year will be better though other than blind optimism.

Care to explain? We should have almost all of our starters back next year on both offense and defense, that is a reason for optimism. Plus we get back KVR and Ishaq.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Care to explain? We should have almost all of our starters back next year on both offense and defense, that is a reason for optimism. Plus we get back KVR and Ishaq.

They are the same starters who are getting demolished on defense. These guys aren't showing flashes like Tuitt or Nix or Te'o or KVR showed as young guys. The scheme has completely stopped working and I don't trust the leadership on defense either.

 

[GATTACA!]

I know what you are saying. I agree with this line of thinking with Cam and today with Collinsworth but Joe Schmidt is a better player than Nyles Morgan right now. Nyles had no chance of being a better player than Joe this season. Hopefully he learns quickly on the fly and competes hard for the spot next year.

.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Schmidt is better right now than Morgan but IMO if Morgan started from game one then he would be better than Schmidt at this point. If i didnt see this as a reoccurring issue i probably wouldn't have thought twice about Schmidt, but seeing it at multiple positions really makes you think.

 

[pkt77242]

They are the same starters who are getting demolished on defense. These guys aren't showing flashes like Tuitt or Nix or Te'o or KVR showed as young guys. The scheme has completely stopped working and I don't trust the leadership on defense either.

I do worry that people have caught onto our blitzing tendencies but I do think that the some of the players have shown flashes (Luke in particular has been impressive, and Cage played well before getting hurt today). The real issue on defense seems to be at safety where Redfield has shown flashes of talent but Shumate has been rough.

I wouldn't mind seeing a defense that looked like
Day Jones Cage Ishaq
JamesO/Tranquill Schmidt Smith
Luke KVR
Redfield ?

It is a little unconventional having Day as a DE in a 4-3 but I think that we could use the size after getting gashed this year by the run. Butler or Watkins as the NB.

 

[Irish2155]

There's no reason to think next year will be better though other than blind optimism.

Yeah, I think there is. First of all the team you've seen all year...will be there next year, one year older and experienced.

And second, as much as everyone wants to beat up on EG...he missed a whole year of "growing pains". 2015/16 he might win a Heisman.

The defense, well sh!t, lets hope KVR is back at least...

 

[IrishLax]

There's no reason to think next year will be better though other than blind optimism.

Well, there is IF everyone comes back, I could see us being quite good.

CB = Luke/KVR. Good players.
Safety = ... I have no words for how bad that position is right now, and it doesn't look like it's getting any better.
LB = Schmidt + Smith + ?? should be formidable. Should be deeper too. The "SAM" has been a non-factor all season though.
DL = Jones+Day+??+??... can anyone rush the passer? At least DTs will be good.

WR=Very good, if not downright great.
TE=fine.
OL=Better. Stanley is good, and an opportunity for improvement at the otehr spots.
RB=fine.
QB=Better.

Schedule is really easy on paper too... even easier than this year's meh schedule.

 

[philipm31]

You make a lot of valed points...the defense is really, really bad.

But wait til next year, EG cleans up his slop, that defense looks a tad bit better...very young this year too.

I do not see EG as the starter next year.

He is WAY too turnover prone. We need to have a better backup plan if he is though. Because he is just KILLING us.

When was the last game he did not have a TO?

And YES, '12 was the peak.

 

[NDRock]

They are the same starters who are getting demolished on defense. These guys aren't showing flashes like Tuitt or Nix or Te'o or KVR showed as young guys. The scheme has completely stopped working and I don't trust the leadership on defense either.

Agree, same mediocre players coming back next year doesn't mean they will be any good. Heck, people kept thinking Tommy was going to have a breakout year.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I think it is ridiculous to be carrying on like this. Yes indeed, this was a botched game in many ways. But seriously with all injuries and suspensions on defense the fact that the team stayed in the playoff conversation as long as they did is a bonus. I always thought that '15 would be the year, and if you read comments from earlier in the year almost everybody else on this board did too. This was one game and it was an awful choke job, but was it worse than any of the losses to Navy? Was it worse than the loss to South Florida? Call me a fool but I am not giving up that easily.

 

[connor_in]

Will 2012 be the peak of the Kelly era?

Tune in next time...same bat-time...same bat-channel

 

[IrishinSyria]

Should probably note that 12-1 is really really freaking good, so the Kelly era could go on for 15 more years, be very good (not legendary) and still have 2012 be the peak.

 

[BGIF]

I think it is ridiculous to be carrying on like this. Yes indeed, this was a botched game in many ways. But seriously with all injuries and suspensions on defense the fact that the team stayed in the playoff conversation as long as they did is a bonus. I always thought that '15 would be the year, and if you read comments from earlier in the year almost everybody else on this board did too. This was one game and it was an awful choke job, but was it worse than any of the losses to Navy? Was it worse than the loss to South Florida? Call me a fool but I am not giving up that easily.

Yes they did with many forecasting an 8 win season this year even BEFORE the suspensions and injuries depleted the ranks.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Yes they did with many forecasting an 8 win season this year even BEFORE the suspensions and injuries depleted the ranks.

To be fair, a large part of the 8-win forecast for this year was the idea that teams like NU, Stanford, USC, and Michigan would be better than they turned out to be.