Opinions on East Coast (NH, VT, MA)

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Just soliciting some feedback from the braintrust about the east coast. My wife and I grew up in the midwest (IN, MO), independently moved to CO and met there. We married and moved back to StLouis but now we're contemplating moving again.

Based purely on external variables, what do you think of the states mentioned above? I'm most seriously considering Vermont. We thought New Hampshire but the taxes appear to be double what Vermont charges. My job allows geographic flexibility and she has family in Boston.

If you have suggested cities/towns, I'm all ears. I'm not a big city person but I really like the old downtowns. I like communities but not busy-ness. I would never live in Boston but a few acres in Vermont sounds ideal.

Any feedback or stories, anecdotal or otherwise, is greatly appreciated!

 

[tussin]

If I could find the right job in VT, I would move there tomorrow. Beautiful state, nice people, perfect for the outdoorsman. Montpelier, Burlington, Sunderland, etc.

 

[woolybug25]

Just soliciting some feedback from the braintrust about the east coast. My wife and I grew up in the midwest (IN, MO), independently moved to CO and met there. We married and moved back to StLouis but now we're contemplating moving again.

Based purely on external variables, what do you think of the states mentioned above? I'm most seriously considering Vermont. We thought New Hampshire but the taxes appear to be double what Vermont charges. My job allows geographic flexibility and she has family in Boston.

If you have suggested cities/towns, I'm all ears. I'm not a big city person but I really like the old downtowns. I like communities but not busy-ness. I would never live in Boston but a few acres in Vermont sounds ideal.

Any feedback or stories, anecdotal or otherwise, is greatly appreciated!

New Hampshire was twice the taxes? I knew people that lived on the New Hampshire side for the taxes. If you are only looking at income tax, you may be missing the bigger picture on the cost of living. New Hampshire has no sales tax and their income tax is a flat tax. It's the "Live Free or Die" state, so you get less "east coast politics" than other states. Here's a breakdown of the tax situation:

New Hampshire levies a 0% general sales or use tax on consumers, which is below the national median of 5.95%. New Hampshire's state and local governments collect $0 per person in general sales taxes and $686 per person in excise taxes, for a combined figure of $686, which ranks 4th lowest nationally. New Hampshire's gasoline tax stands at 19.6¢ (10th lowest nationally), while its cigarette tax stands at $1.78 (17th highest nationally.)

I spent a lot of time in VT. Beautiful state, beautiful people, wonderful place to live. That being said, the cost of living is some of the highest in the country. Homes are expensive and property taxes are insane. Most of my time was spent in Burlington, which is a beautiful city with a downtown designed by the same guy that designed Boulder, CO's downtown. So it should feel familiar to you. In fact, I've heard Burlington referred to as "Boulder-East" on many of a occasion.

If you are looking for "a few acres" in VT though... you better have a fat pocketbook. But it's expensive because its worth it. Good luck!

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

If I could find the right job in VT, I would move there tomorrow. Beautiful state, nice people, perfect for the outdoorsman. Montpelier, Burlington, Sunderland, etc.

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.

New Hampshire was twice the taxes? I knew people that lived on the New Hampshire side for the taxes. If you are only looking at income tax, you may be missing the bigger picture on the cost of living. New Hampshire has no sales tax and their income tax is a flat tax. It's the "Live Free or Die" state, so you get less "east coast politics" than other states. Here's a breakdown of the tax situation:



I spent a lot of time in VT. Beautiful state, beautiful people, wonderful place to live. That being said, the cost of living is some of the highest in the country. Homes are expensive and property taxes are insane. Most of my time was spent in Burlington, which is a beautiful city with a downtown designed by the same guy that designed Boulder, CO's downtown. So it should feel familiar to you. In fact, I've heard Burlington referred to as "Boulder-East" on many of a occasion.

If you are looking for "a few acres" in VT though... you better have a fat pocketbook. But it's expensive because its worth it. Good luck!

Sorry, I should've been more explicit about the taxes. I saw property taxes were running nearly double for similar comps between VT and NH, but maybe Trulia is misleading? It makes more sense in light of what you posted: no sales or income tax, you have to get your money somewhere.

Whoa! I just found the education taxes that get added on to a home. That's where I was likely missing the totals.

I'll keep googling for more info but does anyone have a good website on taxes/costs of living/etc?

 

[woolybug25]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback.



Sorry, I should've been more explicit about the taxes. I saw property taxes were running nearly double for similar comps between VT and NH, but maybe Trulia is misleading? It makes more sense in light of what you posted: no sales or income tax, you have to get your money somewhere.

Whoa! I just found the education taxes that get added on to a home. That's where I was likely missing the totals.

I'll keep googling for more info but does anyone have a good website on taxes/costs of living/etc?

I don't know of a good site, but you are right on the education taxes in VT. I believe most property tax comparisons exclude that, which is a large chunk of change. Furthermore, it gets divided up equally between every school district in the state. So you are paying not only for your kids school, but every Podunk dairy farm school across the state... and they know how to spend it!

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

If I could find the right job in VT, I would move there tomorrow. Beautiful state, nice people, perfect for the outdoorsman. Montpelier, Burlington, Sunderland, etc.

What about New Hampshire? or on the boarder of New Hampshire in Massachusetts?

Both of you talked mostly about VT, was that coincidental or is VT that much better? (outside of taxes)

 

[Old Man Mike]

For my tastes, that area of the US is probably the most civilized area of our country. Both VT and NH are known for future-oriented thinking in their varied ways. Both insist on thinking about things based on knowledge [sure, there are knee-jerk goons anywhere]. If you have a "new" idea, you are not as likely to simply get immediate rejection like many other state and village offices in other states often do.

Dollars? I don't know. They have never meant much to me. Quality-of-life [not "stuff"] is the trump card for me.

 

[Rhode Irish]

I am clearly biased in the famous east coast way, having never lived further west or south than Manhattan, and I think a lot of the criticism people from other parts of the country have about the northeast are actually warranted. But overall it is the best place to live on the planet.

You get all four seasons, you have generally well-educated populaces and really, really nice ("New England-y") towns that are suburban in a way that has main streets with shops and nice neighborhoods, rather than big box stores and strip mall sprawl and people with deceased automobiles in their backyards.

I would at least come up and see some places in person if you're thinking about it. Fly into Boston and drive up into New Hampshire and over to Vermont and stay in a couple bed & breakfasts. I think you'll really like what you see.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

For my tastes, that area of the US is probably the most civilized area of our country. Both VT and NH are known for future-oriented thinking in their varied ways. Both insist on thinking about things based on knowledge [sure, there are knee-jerk goons anywhere]. If you have a "new" idea, you are not as likely to simply get immediate rejection like many other state and village offices in other states often do.

Dollars? I don't know. They have never meant much to me. Quality-of-life [not "stuff"] is the trump card for me.

Thanks OMM, I'm trying to come around to this type of thinking. I grew up where money was always thought of first and it's a limited and limiting way to view things. I want to give my family a chance to have a better atmosphere that fosters creative interest and developing one's self.

I am clearly biased in the famous east coast way, having never lived further west or south than Manhattan, and I think a lot of the criticism people from other parts of the country have about the northeast are actually warranted. But overall it is the best place to live on the planet.

You get all four seasons, you have generally well-educated populaces and really, really nice ("New England-y") towns that are suburban in a way that has main streets with shops and nice neighborhoods, rather than big box stores and strip mall sprawl and people with deceased automobiles in their backyards.

I would at least come up and see some places in person if you're thinking about it. Fly into Boston and drive up into New Hampshire and over to Vermont and stay in a couple bed & breakfasts. I think you'll really like what you see.

This is the plan at the beginning of December. We're going to fly into Boston, stay with my SIL and then rent a car and drive up to Haverhill, MA then through New Hampshire and then over and up through Vermont. I'm guessing we'll be renting a 4-wheel drive SUV.

Any suggested cities/towns to check out? I haven't planned the itinerary out yet so all suggestions are appreciated.

 

[tussin]

What about New Hampshire? or on the boarder of New Hampshire in Massachusetts?

Both of you talked mostly about VT, was that coincidental or is VT that much better? (outside of taxes)

Massachusetts is a fine state and the New England Atlantic coast is absolutely gorgeous. That being said, MA doesn't align with my own personal interests as much as VT or NH. I like to fish, hike, ski, and do other outdoorsy activities. Vermont (and New Hampshire to a lesser extent) easily trump Massachusetts in those areas.

I haven't spent too much time in Massachusetts, but my personal opinion based on visiting relatives is that inner Massachusetts is somewhat boring and the state as a whole doesn't have as many of the "classic" New England small towns as Vermont and NH. Also, Massachusetts isn't nearly as friendly to the sole-proprietor as Vermont; you will see less local business and more chains.

 

[stlnd01]

I grew up in Boston, lived in St. Louis for a bunch of years (now for some reason live in Southern California). I'd move back to New England in a heartbeat if the right job came up, and plan to eventually regardless. Like Rhode said, it's the greatest place to live on the planet (though they do say distance makes the heart grow fonder).

If you like small cities, New England has lots of them. But unless you're talking about Boston, which is expensive, I don't really think the cost of living is going to be all that different across the region. Different places have different tax structures, but they all get you one way or another, and the cost of other stuff will vary widely based on your lifestyle. Even in Vermont there's a big diff between the touristy towns and places off the beaten path (between Burlington and Rutland, for instance). And while the flatlands of southern New Hampshire are basically suburban Boston, drive north an hour and you're in a very different place. So it kinda depends what you're into.

Also I would not neglect Maine. It's gorgeous, especially along the coast. Portland's a great town. And a lot of the smaller cities are neat places too. Does get cold though. Bring a good coat.

 

[nsisk157]

Jersey.... overtaxed but worth it lol...only if you're from here... not worth it otherwise

 

[NDdomer2]

I know nothing about these states but me2southbend lives in Mass If irc. He can provide some insight as well.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Massachusetts is a fine state and the New England Atlantic coast is absolutely gorgeous. That being said, MA doesn't align with my own personal interests as much as VT or NH. I like to fish, hike, ski, and do other outdoorsy activities. Vermont (and New Hampshire to a lesser extent) easily trump Massachusetts in those areas.

I haven't spent too much time in Massachusetts, but my personal opinion based on visiting relatives is that inner Massachusetts is somewhat boring and the state as a whole doesn't have as many of the "classic" New England small towns as Vermont and NH. Also, Massachusetts isn't nearly as friendly to the sole-proprietor as Vermont; you will see less local business and more chains.

I really like the small town structure, it's something we've looked for repeatedly but it's hard/impossible to find near StL. Like you, I enjoy the outdoors. I'm not so much a fisherman but hiking, snowboarding, (really want to learn timberframing), I think I'd like snowshoeing and I really would like to have a nice sized garden. Thanks for the input!

I grew up in Boston, lived in St. Louis for a bunch of years (now for some reason live in Southern California). I'd move back to New England in a heartbeat if the right job came up, and plan to eventually regardless. Like Rhode said, it's the greatest place to live on the planet (though they do say distance makes the heart grow fonder).

If you like small cities, New England has lots of them. But unless you're talking about Boston, which is expensive, I don't really think the cost of living is going to be all that different across the region. Different places have different tax structures, but they all get you one way or another, and the cost of other stuff will vary widely based on your lifestyle. Even in Vermont there's a big diff between the touristy towns and places off the beaten path (between Burlington and Rutland, for instance). And while the flatlands of southern New Hampshire are basically suburban Boston, drive north an hour and you're in a very different place. So it kinda depends what you're into.

Also I would not neglect Maine. It's gorgeous, especially along the coast. Portland's a great town. And a lot of the smaller cities are neat places too. Does get cold though. Bring a good coat.

Thanks for the feedback. Maine is too far away from her sister. We'd like to be close to family if we are going to make this big transition, ideally we aren't more than 2ish hours away from Boston.

Jersey.... overtaxed but worth it lol...only if you're from here... not worth it otherwise

Thanks nsisk, I don't think Jersey is my place but I think you helped confirm it.

I know nothing about these states but me2southbend lives in Mass If irc. He can provide some insight as well.

Thanks, hopefully he chimes in.


To those who have lived there, I'm trying to understand the additional costs associated with living in the New England area.

If we are rural, do we need a generator? snowmobile? These are very simplistic, perhaps naive questions but I don't know what is involved at all with these locations.

I'm assuming being in an area with more people won't require as many considerations. Some of the homes we've been looking at have 3-12 acres and it says they are just off the snowmobile route. I don't really know what that means, ha ha.

Thanks again for the comments from each of you.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

I know nothing about these states but me2southbend lives in Mass If irc. He can provide some insight as well.

Actually live outside of Portland Me. (grew up in Ma.). You weren't asking about Me., but it is a great place to live. Lots to do, plenty of great land, affordable priced land as far as I can tell. I feel like Me., NH and Vt. could all afford you the same pace of life if that matters to you. Mass is inherently "busier" and typically more crowded both in terms of population and traffic. This is a huge thing for me and I couldn't be happier w the pace and space of things in and around Greater Portland. There are plenty of small towns and small cities (across the 3 northern states) that have culture, night life, seasonal attractions and a variety of other reasons why it's a good place to live and raise a family.

One downside to the move is you can't speak to great local HS football talent. Can be fun to watch, but you won't be going out scouting D1 talent to provide feedback here.

Best of luck!

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Thanks for the feedback. Maine is too far away from her sister. We'd like to be close to family if we are going to make this big transition, ideally we aren't more than 2ish hours away from Boston.

Just saw this in a previous post. If you were to stay Portland or south, you wouldn't be too far from Ma. York, Wells, Kennebunk, Ogunquit, Scarborough are all nice towns south of Portland that are less than an hour from the Ma border and if Haverhill Ma. is the landing spot, you can get from Scarborough (the northern most of those towns listed) to Haverhill in just over an hour. NH only has 8 or 9 miles of coastline, so you zip through there pretty quickly from Me. to Ma.

I can get from my house to Fenway in an hour and 45 or so, and I'm north of Portland.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Thanks for the feedback. Maine is too far away from her sister. We'd like to be close to family if we are going to make this big transition, ideally we aren't more than 2ish hours away from Boston.

Just saw this in a previous post. If you were to stay Portland or south, you wouldn't be too far from Ma. York, Wells, Kennebunk, Ogunquit, Scarborough are all nice towns south of Portland that are less than an hour from the Ma border and if Haverhill Ma. is the landing spot, you can get from Scarborough (the northern most of those towns listed) to Haverhill in just over an hour. NH only has 8 or 9 miles of coastline, so you zip through there pretty quickly from Me. to Ma.

I can get from my house to Fenway in an hour and 45 or so, and I'm north of Portland.

Awesome! Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to look up the cities/towns you listed and see where they are located.

I want to get out of StL and into a more quiet place, more neighborly, etc. StL is pretty good about supporting local businesses but coming from Colorado, it still leaves something to be desired. Plus, there have been something like 12ish murders in North St. Louis in the past month, it's just too much violence.