'16 MI OLB Daelin Hayes (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

[Luckylucci]

You might be right about his long term position but dwshade is just passing along info from the staff. They currently view him as Jaylons replacement. They think that's where he fits in the scheme and that he can be that good or close to it.

 

[drake29]

drake29,

I saw the kid eye to eye and it'll be hard to keep him from getting DE sized. He already looked like Adrian Wilson at the start of his junior year in high school. To be honest, I wouldn't doubt if he's closer to 6-4 than 6-3 and at least 230lbs. I don't know how he's gonna stay LB sized unless he never lifts and joins the cross country team on the side.

Now, the question is, can he be an effective 4-3 OLB in BVG's system if he's 6-4, 250lbs because that's where I see him heading. It can be done, I guess. Brian Urlacher comes to mind as a 6-4, 260lb guy that could've played any LB position at any level though he wasn't as big as Hayes is when he was Hayes' age.

.

Not every player that goes from HS to college needs to gain weight to play the position they are recruited for. Most do because they aren't freaks of nature. When I was introduced to a college weight training/conditioning program I actually lost 15 lbs. The staff will likely monitor his meals closely to keep him at a suitable weight that he doesn't lose a step. It's really not that complicated.

 

[Cackalacky]

So how realistic is this? He is not moving out west anymore right?

 

[clashmore_mike]

So how realistic is this? He is not moving out west anymore right?

He's back in Michigan now. Some kind of custody dispute if i recall correctly.

 

[Irish YJ]

Rough start to my week. Sorry, guys.

Whiskey even God makes mistakes.... See Michigan.

 

[ACamp1900]

Rough start to my week. Sorry, guys.

Eh, par for the course........

 

[dwshade]

Bookmark this page and check back in the future. Bilal is more Jaylon Smith sized than Hayes is. I'll stand by what I said regarding Hayes' future physical maturation. I hope he can remain a viable option at OLB, there has been players do it before but to say he isn't gonna get DE sized is probably wrong. Dude is grown as a junior.

I'm just saying BVG thinks he's an athletic clone of Jaylon. Freakish athletic skills. Just not "football skilled" like Jaylon at the same age but he is certainly coachable. One of the rivals analysts saw him doing LB drills at summer camp and he said covered RB's easily. Said he sees maybe 1 or 2 LB's a year with his athletic skill set. I just don't see DE in his future.

 

[BobbyMac]

Size wise he seems like an OLB. Not seeing this huge DE you speak of. If he is 225 at 6' 3" he is right where you would want him as a junior. Coached guys that were like this and their bodies change a buy but they just do not get massively huge and gain tons of weight. Let the coaches figure that out I guess.

He's all of 6-3, 225 right now. I would say in the 230's, I just saw him 20 feet away from me on the sideline last month. My point fellas... He's a junior in high school, he's gonna mature. I was 6-4, 200 as a HS Jr, 6-5.5 215 as a Sr and once i got to college blew up to 240 on a basketball lifting program my freshman year. If he weighs 225-230 now, he's gonna fill out 20-30lbs between now and his sophomore year with ND's strength program and improved dietary habits. I'm not saying he can't be a OLB at the next level just that he is going to be big enough to play DE most likely. All I know is, he won't be 6-3, 225 4 years from now... Is Jaylon Smith still 210lbs like his senior recruiting bio's state?

You might be right about his long term position but dwshade is just passing along info from the staff. They currently view him as Jaylons replacement. They think that's where he fits in the scheme and that he can be that good or close to it.

I won't argue with them, but after seeing Bilal stand next to JS, I'd say they already have JS's clone coming to South Bend next year.

.

 

[BobbyMac]

Not every player that goes from HS to college needs to gain weight to play the position they are recruited for. Most do because they aren't freaks of nature. When I was introduced to a college weight training/conditioning program I actually lost 15 lbs. The staff will likely monitor his meals closely to keep him at a suitable weight that he doesn't lose a step. It's really not that complicated.

I understand how it works, been there, I ran the strength and conditioning program for a DI basketball program. I don't know your personal situation but I would have to really sit and think about the guys who come to ND that lose weight to become game ready. Maybe some 325+ D lineman (?) but not linebackers. Jaylon Smith was and is a freak, he's put on 20-25 lbs since his recruiting bio's from his HS Sr year. After seeing Hayes up close & in the flesh, my opinion is he will continue to mature and he will gain weight. Once again, just my opinion.

I'm just saying BVG thinks he's an athletic clone of Jaylon. Freakish athletic skills. Just not "football skilled" like Jaylon at the same age but he is certainly coachable. One of the rivals analysts saw him doing LB drills at summer camp and he said covered RB's easily. Said he sees maybe 1 or 2 LB's a year with his athletic skill set. I just don't see DE in his future.

Again, I'm not saying he will be a DE or must be a DE. I'm saying, he will most likely be the size of a DE when he has physically matured and put through Longo's system. Even if he's 6-3 250, he could still be a LB, Urlacher played a career at 6-4, 260lb and is headed to the HOF. How big was he when he was a junior in high school? Well he was 6-3 200 when he went to New Mexico and 6-4, 235 when took off as an OLB / Saftey his junior year of college. I'm not saying he will be just like Urlacher, but I'm saying he could be. I hope he signs with ND and I hope he can play the LB position like BVG wants but I'll stick by my assertion that he's gonna be WDE sized down the line.

.

 

[dwshade]

He's all of 6-3, 225 right now. I would say in the 230's, I just saw him 20 feet away from me on the sideline last month. My point fellas... He's a junior in high school, he's gonna mature. I was 6-4, 200 as a HS Jr, 6-5.5 215 as a Sr and once i got to college blew up to 240 on a basketball lifting program my freshman year. If he weighs 225-230 now, he's gonna fill out 20-30lbs between now and his sophomore year with ND's strength program and improved dietary habits. I'm not saying he can't be a OLB at the next level just that he is going to be big enough to play DE most likely. All I know is, he won't be 6-3, 225 4 years from now... Is Jaylon Smith still 210lbs like his senior recruiting bio's state?



I won't argue with them, but after seeing Bilal stand next to JS, I'd say they already have JS's clone coming to South Bend next year.

.

Bilal isn't even 200 pounds yet. Jaylon was 215 or so SR. year. Not every guy automatically gains a lot of weight once they get to college. Big frame DL do, LB's not so much. Nyles Morgan was 225 and I doubt he ever clears 240. James Onwaulu has only gained about 12-15 pounds. Jarrett Grace has only added 10-12 pounds. Jaylon has added 15 or so. I expect Hayes to play in the 235-240 range. Doug Randolph has only added 5-10 pounds.

 

[GBdomer]

I think he really,really liked Notre Dame and there was no doubt her was a huge fan of ND. Say's he "loves this place." Also selling him as the next Jaylon has to be the best pitch out of any staff. I don't see the USC sticking unless he moves back.

 

[BobbyMac]

Bilal isn't even 200 pounds yet. Jaylon was 215 or so SR. year. Not every guy automatically gains a lot of weight once they get to college. Big frame DL do, LB's not so much. Nyles Morgan was 225 and I doubt he ever clears 240. James Onwaulu has only gained about 12-15 pounds. Jarrett Grace has only added 10-12 pounds. Jaylon has added 15 or so. I expect Hayes to play in the 235-240 range. Doug Randolph has only added 5-10 pounds.

That's fine for all those guys but you'd be better off asking yourself what Jaylon weighed when he was a junior, 195-200-205?... once again, if Hayes is 225 right now as advertised (I believe he is bigger than that from seeing him in person) he will have a hard time not being a 250lb human being in 4 years. Forget Longo, forget ND's training table, dude has a grown man's body already at 16 and he's got 22 months before he will get to a college campus. I stand by what I said, he's most likely gonna have a WDE's body. That doesn't mean I think he won't be able to play LB at the larger size. Larger guys have done it before.

.

 

[ThePiombino]

Have to figure barring a grand slam hire, UM is out. What about OSU?

 

[rtrn2glory]

wouldn't rule out a grand slam hire by ann arbor.

 

[ThePiombino]

wouldn't rule out a grand slam hire by ann arbor.

Only two grand slam hires (as far as public perception) I see are Harbaugh and Miles and I don't see either one heading to AA.

 

[Grahambo]

Only two grand slam hires (as far as public perception) I see are Harbaugh and Miles and I don't see either one heading to AA.

Recent articles have mentioned that the Harbaugh that would be more likely for UM would be John Harbaugh and not Jim. With the way the Ravens are playing, I'm not sure that's likely. I'm also not sure how a successful pro coach would end up in the mess that UM is in right now when he can have his picking at the pro level if he wants to leave Baltimore.

I just don't see why Les would leave LSU. That would be a complete surprise to me.

 

[dublinirish]

Recent articles have mentioned that the Harbaugh that would be more likely for UM would be John Harbaugh and not Jim. With the way the Ravens are playing, I'm not sure that's likely. I'm also not sure how a successful pro coach would end up in the mess that UM is in right now when he can have his picking at the pro level if he wants to leave Baltimore.

I just don't see why Les would leave LSU. That would be a complete surprise to me.

He wanted to go there when they hired rich rod. i don't think anything would change that. It's his dream job.

 

[IrishLax]

Only two grand slam hires (as far as public perception) I see are Harbaugh and Miles and I don't see either one heading to AA.

Or Dan Mullen or the other Harbaugh or... they've got a lot of options. Ultimately I'd bet they end up with a Greg Schiano type.

 

[irishog77]

Wait, so we're basing how much this kid will weigh 3-5 years from now based on an eye witness report...from 20 feet away (which, as we know, probably isn't an accurate distance measurement anyway)?

I think what we really need to do in this thread now is debate whether he could successfully play QB, DT, and MLB for ND.


By the way, I like this kid. I hope he comes to ND.

 

[irishog77]

Or Dan Mullen or the other Harbaugh or... they've got a lot of options. Ultimately I'd bet they end up with a Greg Schiano type.

Grand slam? Eh...not so sure.

 

[BobbyMac]

Wait, so we're basing how much this kid will weigh 3-5 years from now based on an eye witness report...from 20 feet away (which, as we know, probably isn't an accurate distance measurement anyway)?

I think what we really need to do in this thread now is debate whether he could successfully play QB, DT, and MLB for ND.


By the way, I like this kid. I hope he comes to ND.

*Edit -- skip the bashing part of #1, I misread the first half of the opening sentence though the second half of the response remains valid. Number #2 and closing question still apply.


1. Who is BASHING the kid? I just said IMO Hayes is going to be WDE sized once he matures and once again, that doesn't mean he won't be able to play LB if he ends up 6-4, 250+lbs. It's been done before. He's already a beast and to me, he looks bigger than 6-3, 225lbs. I'm 6-5, 260 so I have some reference. I was the an asst. coach in charge of S&C for a DI basketball program so my exposure to athlete's size and development isn't relegated to the back of a trading card or internet recruiting bios.

2. I was standing directly behind him on the sideline at Saddleback CC when they played JSerra. 20 feet is accurate. I know what 20 feet is.


I gotta ask, do you ever contribute anything to this site except low wit snark?

.

 

[ThePiombino]

Or Dan Mullen or the other Harbaugh or... they've got a lot of options. Ultimately I'd bet they end up with a Greg Schiano type.

Actually forgot about John somehow. That could be big. Mullen, not so sure one great season makes a great coach. To me, grand slam would mean great coach and great public perception - thus recruiting immediately falls in line with expectations. But even then, look at Texas. A LOT of people thought that was a nearly perfect hire, yet they're still struggling. I know it takes time, but most fan bases and a lot of programs don't afford the luxory of time. UM needs something HUGE here and I don't see it happening unless they plan to write a blank check, like highest paid coach in NCAA big.

 

[IrishinTN]

Wait, so we're basing how much this kid will weigh 3-5 years from now based on an eye witness report...from 20 feet away (which, as we know, probably isn't an accurate distance measurement anyway)?.

1. Who is BASHING the kid? I just said IMO Hayes is going to be WDE sized once he matures and once again, that doesn't mean he won't be able to play LB if he ends up 6-4, 250+lbs.

Don't think he said bashing, he said "basing".

 

[BobbyMac]

Actually forgot about John somehow. That could be big. Mullen, not so sure one great season makes a great coach. To me, grand slam would mean great coach and great public perception - thus recruiting immediately falls in line with expectations. But even then, look at Texas. A LOT of people thought that was a nearly perfect hire, yet they're still struggling. I know it takes time, but most fan bases and a lot of programs don't afford the luxory of time. UM needs something HUGE here and I don't see it happening unless they plan to write a blank check, like highest paid coach in NCAA big.

If anyone can and needs to, it's them.

They aren't going 'up and coming' again, they are 0 for the last 2.

The John Harbaugh scenario is gaining traction, is there fire attached to the smoke? He grew up in AA so he probably sees it as his hometown. That means something to a lot of people. Great job to retire into if you can beat OSU and MSU 50% of the time.

Something is up.

.

 

[BobbyMac]

Don't think he said bashing, he said "basing".

Good catch , thanks.

 

[irishog77]

*Edit -- skip the bashing part of #1, I misread the first half of the opening sentence though the second half of the response remains valid. Number #2 and closing question still apply.


1. Who is BASHING the kid? I just said IMO Hayes is going to be WDE sized once he matures and once again, that doesn't mean he won't be able to play LB if he ends up 6-4, 250+lbs. It's been done before. He's already a beast and to me, he looks bigger than 6-3, 225lbs. I'm 6-5, 260 so I have some reference. I was the an asst. coach in charge of S&C for a DI basketball program so my exposure to athlete's size and development isn't relegated to the back of a trading card or internet recruiting bios.

2. I was standing directly behind him on the sideline at Saddleback CC when they played JSerra. 20 feet is accurate. I know what 20 feet is.


I gotta ask, do you ever contribute anything to this site except low wit snark?

.

Yes.

Sorry if I am somewhat skeptical of this kid's weight (or anybody else's in the world, for that matter), several years from now, based on you seeing him in football pads and uniform from a measurable 20 feet.

This board has been down this road before regarding people from all walks of life with guesstimates about height and weight. You may be 100% correct in your assessment...or you may be 100% wrong. Most of us on this board, rather than getting into a big discussion about what a high school junior's weight will be when he's a college junior, wait until it actually matters.

Now I've had to waste my time writing this and waste the time of anybody who reads it spelling this all out.

 

[dwshade]

John Harbaugh will not be going to Michigan.

 

[BobbyMac]

Yes.

Sorry if I am somewhat skeptical of this kid's weight (or anybody else's in the world, for that matter), several years from now, based on you seeing him in football pads and uniform from a measurable 20 feet.

This board has been down this road before regarding people from all walks of life with guesstimates about height and weight. You may be 100% correct in your assessment...or you may be 100% wrong. Most of us on this board, rather than getting into a big discussion about what a high school junior's weight will be when he's a college junior, wait until it actually matters.

Now I've had to waste my time writing this and waste the time of anybody who reads it spelling this all out.

No, you didn't have to waste your time. You could have read what I posted and left it at that. All I have said is after seeing him up close, I believe he will end up more DE sized than LB sized. I never said he'll have to play DE and will grow out of the LB position.

Lastly, he wasn't in pads as he didn't play because of a reported shoulder injury though it was just days before he returned to Michigan so that may have been the real reason. I saw him up close, for an entire game, at ground level. I may not be 100% right in what he matures into but I know I'm 100% right about what I saw with a trained eye and in no way am I 100% wrong about anything I said.

Way to end on a snark, well played.

.

 

[irishog77]

No, you didn't have to waste your time. You could have read what I posted and left it at that. All I have said is after seeing him up close, I believe he will end up more DE sized than LB sized. I never said he'll have to play DE and will grow out of the LB position.

Lastly, he wasn't in pads as he didn't play because of a reported shoulder injury though it was just days before he returned to Michigan so that may have been the real reason. I saw him up close, for an entire game, at ground level. I may not be 100% right in what he matures into but I know I'm 100% right about what I saw with a trained eye and in no way am I 100% wrong about anything I said.

Way to end on a snark, well played.

.

Can you tell us how tall Bob Diaco and EG are and if eddie vanderdoes can play middle line backer?

 

[Irish#1]

Yes.

Sorry if I am somewhat skeptical of this kid's weight (or anybody else's in the world, for that matter), several years from now, based on you seeing him in football pads and uniform from a measurable 20 feet.

This board has been down this road before regarding people from all walks of life with guesstimates about height and weight. You may be 100% correct in your assessment...or you may be 100% wrong. Most of us on this board, rather than getting into a big discussion about what a high school junior's weight will be when he's a college junior, wait until it actually matters.

Now I've had to waste my time writing this and waste the time of anybody who reads it spelling this all out.

No, you didn't have to waste your time. You could have read what I posted and left it at that. All I have said is after seeing him up close, I believe he will end up more DE sized than LB sized. I never said he'll have to play DE and will grow out of the LB position.

Lastly, he wasn't in pads as he didn't play because of a reported shoulder injury though it was just days before he returned to Michigan so that may have been the real reason. I saw him up close, for an entire game, at ground level. I may not be 100% right in what he matures into but I know I'm 100% right about what I saw with a trained eye and in no way am I 100% wrong about anything I said.

Way to end on a snark, well played.

.

If you two don't stop, there will be no Twinkies and Hot Chocolate for you.