A New Division For Power Conferences?

[T Town Tommy]

How would ADDING an additional conference game threaten a conference rivalry?

Because that game would be lost in the round robin scheduling format that would have to be developed in order to play every team in your conference. At a minimum to make it work the Bama UT game would occur every three years at a minimum I believe.

I am all for nine games and have stated so several times. But I am also for preserving traditional rivalries. Somewhere there is a solution. Hopefully they will figure it out.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That's obviously changing moving forward with the Power 5. But to play every team in our conference - in the name of schedule equality - means that our traditional rival games occur once every six years. I don't think ND would want that arrangement with their Navy game. And for good reason. But to ask other conferences to forego their traditional games is a little condescending.

I'm not following you here, Tommy. The current suggestion would clear space on every SEC schedule for more cross-sectional rivalries. So you drop Florida Atlantic and Western Carolina... how exactly does that threaten the UT game? Forcing all "Power-5" teams to play at least 11 other "Power-5" teams would make it easier to keep those cross-sectional rivalries going every year, not harder.

 

[ACamp1900]

How would ADDING an additional conference game threaten a conference rivalry?

Because when bama, uga, florida and lsu (all in the same conference mind you) finally all have to play each other in the same season, any of those schools may become so beat up that great rivalry with vandy or Miss st may actually threaten them for once.

 

[irishog77]

If bama played 9 conference games, they could play their six division foes every year, rotate 2 games among 5 teams every year, and play utjr every year.

Again, not at all seeing how adding an extra conference game to their schedule hinders their ability to play utjr annually.

 

[NDWorld247]

That's obviously changing moving forward with the Power 5. But to play every team in our conference - in the name of schedule equality - means that our traditional rival games occur once every six years. I don't think ND would want that arrangement with their Navy game. And for good reason. But to ask other conferences to forego their traditional games is a little condescending.

Tommy, with all due respect, what the fuck are you talking about? The SEC 8-game schedule already preserves the traditional rivalry. As I'm sure you know, the set-up is: 6 games vs. division, 1 game vs. other division on rotating basis and 1 game vs. traditional rival from other division (e.g. Bama vs. Tenn). Adding a 9th conference games would allow the SEC to either a.) preserve/create another traditional cross-division rival or b.) accelerate the rotation of cross-division games.

The discussion of ND vs. Navy has nothing to do with the 9-game SEC scheduling discussion. Apples to oranges.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Not being a smart ass here, but I find that comment interesting. The two times I was in Knoxville for Irish/Vols, UT fans typically told me the two biggest rivals were UGA and UF. Does Bama consider it a bigger rivalry than UT maybe? Granted I only had a small sampling of a few UT fans.

The rivalry means more when both teams are good obviously. UT Bama fans have a long standing hatred for each other. Because UT has been pitiful the last decade, the intensity of the rivalry has died down somewhat. But let them beat Bama once. Then ask them about it again. Plus, the addition of Wonder Boy will get it going back again in full force.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Because that game would be lost in the round robin scheduling format that would have to be developed in order to play every team in your conference. At a minimum to make it work the Bama UT game would occur every three years at a minimum I believe.

Who said anything about that?

 

[Irish#1]

Board adopts new Division I structure (first posted by ResLife Hero above)

This details the new governance model and Council as well as voting rules for proposals for changes.

Thanks for sharing. I see how they can pass the changes, but I still see a whole host of problems waiting. Backroom deals like our congress will probably be the norm. I think we're going to have a lot of folks crying foul in the near future.

 

[irishog77]

Not being a smart ass here, but I find that comment interesting. The two times I was in Knoxville for Irish/Vols, UT fans typically told me the two biggest rivals were UGA and UF. Does Bama consider it a bigger rivalry than UT maybe? Granted I only had a small sampling of a few UT fans.

utjr has no primary rival. Their biggest "rivals" consider them to be number 2 or 3 on their list:

florida-- FSU, Georgia, probably even Miami....then utjr
georgia-- auburn/florida, georgia tech....then utjr
bama-- auburn, currently lsu...utjr


Honestly though, I've never heard a Vol fan mention georgia as their primary rival.

 

[irishog77]

I think this is a case of "bama counting." Just like the multiple national championships not recognized by anyone other than bama, an additional conference game somehow makes it more difficult to play conference teams.

#bamamath

 

[T Town Tommy]

Tommy, with all due respect, what the fuck are you talking about? The SEC 8-game schedule already preserves the traditional rivalry. As I'm sure you know, the set-up is: 6 games vs. division, 1 game vs. other division on rotating basis and 1 game vs. traditional rival from other division (e.g. Bama vs. Tenn). Adding a 9th conference games would allow the SEC to either a.) preserve/create another traditional cross-division rival or b.) accelerate the rotation of cross-division games.

The discussion of ND vs. Navy has nothing to do with the 9-game SEC scheduling discussion. Apples to oranges.

That is the same proposal put forth by some in the SEC. Play your cross division rival every year and then play two other teams from the other division on a rotating basis. That would work and I would hope they go to that format. Other schools - LSU and Miles in particular - balk at it as they play Fla every year and feel that other cross division rivals are easier.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I think this is a case of "bama counting." Just like the multiple national championships not recognized by anyone other than bama, an additional conference game somehow makes it more difficult to play conference teams.

#bamamath

Do we need to go there again? The last one is really all that matters... and my Bama math was pretty good on that one.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

That is the same proposal put forth by some in the SEC. Play your cross division rival every year and then play two other teams from the other division on a rotating basis. That would work and I would hope they go to that format. Other schools - LSU and Miles in particular - balk at it as they play Fla every year and feel that other cross division rivals are easier.

That's the exact sort of objection that was legitimate under the BCS, but (in theory) isn't under the new post-season model. If LSU plays a tougher schedule, they'll be rewarded for it. In other words, LSU's annual game against UF is a feature, not a bug, of these new proposals.

 

[T Town Tommy]

That's the exact sort of objection that was legitimate under the BCS, but (in theory) isn't under the new post-season model. If LSU plays a tougher schedule, they'll be rewarded for it. In other words, LSU's annual game against UF is a feature, not a bug, of these new proposals.

I agree.

My position on nine games for the SEC has been pretty clear... or at least I thought so anyway. If we can keep our traditional rivals - ours being UT even though they don't help us in our SOS schedule so much - then I am all for it. Rotate the other two games remaining against the remaining six teams in the other division and play ball.

I am a supporter of ND keeping Navy as well. The two programs have helped each other through the years and that relationship should be preserved - even though most years Navy would not be that great for ND's SOS. I applaud the school for reacting the way they did yesterday.

The rest of the recent discussion here - mostly the negative type - amounts to nothing more than preverbial chest beating... which is kinda funny to me.

 

[dshans]

Can't think of any other rivalry games where the visiting team is CHEERED before and after the game like Navy-Notre Dame.

I attended both the '70 and '71 ND vs Navy games. I was able to spend time with a Midshipman high school classmate in both Annapolis and South Bend. I will spare all a telling of the attendant stories again.

I was left with a deep and moving sense of the respect and appreciation emanating from both sides of the field. The pageantry was impressive. I would not appreciate, one iota, an end to this traditional game.

 

[Legacy]

As much as the Autonomy decision has been touted as resolving issues of athlete welfare and rights, the heart of it is the centrifugal force that has separated the Power 5s from the rest of FBS. The final driving factors are money and control.

Clearly sooner rather than later, the focus is becoming the differences between schools/conferences on such issues as scheduling, four year scholarships, recruiting issues, payment of athletes, self-policing, etc.

I found this semi-satirical article from an Ole Miss grad funny, but harder for me to relate to. Meet the Bag Man

If I had my way (with a nod towards the continual centrifugal force), I would execute a NFL-type of scheduling with a certain number of games within the division (read conference), games with a rotating division, and the rest weighted with last year's finish. More top 25 teams would play each other. Seeing more Top 10 teams from different conferences playing each other with preservation of rivalries would be good for college football.

Otherwise, there will always be an element of chest-thumping.

I wonder why the non-Power 5 teams don't band together and discuss items of common interest with guidance as how much buy-ins games will be worth, what their share of television revenue for away games should be, and establishing their own Council for governance.

Down the road, imagine there are no more conference bowl tie-ins and the top bowls outside the Playoff bowls will match up the best teams.

 

[Irish#1]

utjr has no primary rival. Their biggest "rivals" consider them to be number 2 or 3 on their list:

florida-- FSU, Georgia, probably even Miami....then utjr
georgia-- auburn/florida, georgia tech....then utjr
bama-- auburn, currently lsu...utjr


Honestly though, I've never heard a Vol fan mention georgia as their primary rival.

You should have been tailgating with me outside Neyland stadium! lol

I like the idea of using an NFL model for scheduling.

 

[vmgsf]

Notre Dame will play Navy. Nothing will interfere with that. Notre Dame owes Navy and respects Navy. Politically do you think any group of power schools would try to screw this historic and wonderful "rivalry."

Navy and Notre Dame not playing - it is not going to happen. However they rationalize it. Notre Dame and Navy will play every year.

Do you want to get the Secretary of the Navy mad at you?

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>On Power 5 scheduling, whether Navy would count: “I don’t think you can count Navy out of the conversation."</p>— Andrew Owens (@BGI_AndrewOwens) <a href="https://twitter.com/BGI_AndrewOwens/statuses/498139730064973825">August 9, 2014</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Brian Kelly on P5 skeds: "Would be extremely excited if everybody would go down the same road & play the kind of schedule we do." <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a></p>— Matt Fortuna (@Matt_Fortuna) <a href="https://twitter.com/Matt_Fortuna/statuses/498139783919845376">August 9, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Legacy]

Notre Dame would gladly go into a national scheduling NFL-type model like BK says.

Four year scholarships, national scheduling among similar strength teams, and standards for discipline are issues the new NCAA Council will need to address. But they would be my goals.

Here's a nice site to see who plays whom (with Archives):

Colley Bias Free Matrix-Rankings by Conference

The FCS games vs the Power 5 are obviously just buy-in home games without any of the tradition that is college football or any competitive factor. Just dump those and provide FCS schools with a percentage of P5 television money.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This thread is very confused, except Swarbrick's statement, Kelly's comments, and some of the posts thereafter.

May understanding dshans posts should be a prerequisite to posting. I have never had a problem with the man, his posts, or anything. In fact, I believe he is likely among the most intelligent and well stated on the board.

 

[ResLife Hero]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Big Ten issues statement on autonomy recommendations <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/collegefootball?src=hash">#collegefootball</a> <a href="http://t.co/cioss934fG">http://t.co/cioss934fG</a></p>— CollegeFootballTalk (@CFTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFTalk/status/517375081815625728">October 1, 2014</a></blockquote>
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