If you go by Rivals rankings high 4* and 5* guys have ratings of 6.0 or higher. Their are only 70 of those in the country. The difference for a any team comes in the the rest of the ranked players whether it's 2,3 or lower 4 star players. And the difference between your typical 3* and 4* star player is so small that this is where coaching evaluations and coaching development come into play. Sometimes the only difference may be in terms of football playing experience or a kid simply hasn't grown into his body yet. Johnny Williams is a perfect example. What these rankings also don't account for is a kid's work ethic, his desire to be the best player he can be, his heart. This is where a kid like Ferttita comes into play. Bottom line I trust Kelly and his staff to determine which kids they feel they can develop into solid players and those who are great fits for ND.
'15 NV S Nicco Fertitta (Notre Dame Signed NLI)
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If you go by Rivals rankings high 4* and 5* guys have ratings of 6.0 or higher. Their are only 70 of those in the country. The difference for a any team comes in the the rest of the ranked players whether it's 2,3 or lower 4 star players. And the difference between your typical 3* and 4* star player is so small that this is where coaching evaluations and coaching development come into play. Sometimes the only difference may be in terms of football playing experience or a kid simply hasn't grown into his body yet. Johnny Williams is a perfect example. What these rankings also don't account for is a kid's work ethic, his desire to be the best player he can be, his heart. This is where a kid like Ferttita comes into play. Bottom line I trust Kelly and his staff to determine which kids they feel they can develop into solid players and those who are great fits for ND.
Irish Man3
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Ive said countless times that I trust Kelly and staff as evaluators of talent. I still am suspect on the Fertitta commitment. I just don't like his film and don't think he offers much to a BCS caliber team, period.
I also stand by what I said about these senseless examples of 3* players that have made it. Count those against the low 3* guys that havent. I guess we can take every skinny 3* TE from the Midwest because Tyler Eifert made it. Disregard the 100's of other prospects with his ranking, frame, etc that amounted to nothing on the football field. Those examples are foolish. I simply dont like Fertitta, period. I don't hate the kid or hope he's unsuccessful to have my point proven. I hope I'm wrong.
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Bogtrotter07
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I hate to take it to this level, but I asked politely! What does it take to get people to take a discussion to the player's thread, around here?
I hate to take it to this level, but I asked politely! What does it take to get people to take a discussion to the player's thread, around here?
connect the dots
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Bogtrotter07
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Just my incredible humility, and giant dick size. I am a truly (elite) humble man with a big dick.
Are you happy, we have now blown this thread to shit!
drake29
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Brooks and Sunseri are at least 2 inches taller, 30 lbs heavier and likely faster than Nico. Not elite but they are at least adequate in terms of measurables and more athletic. Matthews is a rare example- he grew 3 inches and did enough steroids to add 70+ lbs of solid muscle. Besides, he wasn't a scholarship player initially - he was a preferred walk on. Dennard was listed as a 5-11 CB running a 4.5 with a 36 inch vertical - I would say that's pretty damn close to elite as far as the type of developmental recruit that you take. That's why I'm ok with taking 3 stars like Jhonny Williams and Grant Blankenship. You don't want to build an entire class out of these guys because a higher percentage won't pan out, but Nico as a scholarship special teams player just makes no sense.
irishjet34
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I have not really posted too much before but always love coming to this site but I got tired of seeing all the Nicco discussion in the Ross thread.
By all reports this kid is great locker room personality, a leader, has a high football IQ and an active recruiter of other kids for this class. He likes to hit and everything I have seen coming out on his play at camps has been very positive.
He plays tough competition on a good team at a high level. It has been 8 years since I stepped foot on a college football field but I would go to war with this type of kid every day of the week.
The staff has seen much more of his play than any one of us so I am going to trust their opinion. They have not given me a reason to doubt them on this yet.
By all reports this kid is great locker room personality, a leader, has a high football IQ and an active recruiter of other kids for this class. He likes to hit and everything I have seen coming out on his play at camps has been very positive.
He plays tough competition on a good team at a high level. It has been 8 years since I stepped foot on a college football field but I would go to war with this type of kid every day of the week.
The staff has seen much more of his play than any one of us so I am going to trust their opinion. They have not given me a reason to doubt them on this yet.
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Just not true. Sunseri coming out of HS was 5'11"ish 190 pounds. Fertitta is currently 5'10"ish (no shorter than 5'9.5" from people who have seen him recently) 175-185. But they are different prospects for sure if you're looking at a 1-to-1 comparison.
Nicco is 5'10" running a 4.5ish?
Cody Grimm was an example I brought in that is still being ignored, but I think is most comparable to Nicco. I think Justin Tranquill, viewed as a safety, was more comparable to Sunseri than Nicco is.
Grimm was just about the same exact build as Nicco in HS... 5'10" 180 pounds. I played against him in lacrosse many times and thought he was a meh athlete. Very strong, good athleticism but certainly no Evan Royster for a northern Virginia lacrosse midfielder->DI football->NFL 1-to-1 comparison. On the hoof, he was certainly not what you'd think when you think NFL.
I think he grew a small smidge maybe (NFL combine sheet erroneously lists him at 6'1" which isn't even close to true and is likely just a typo, all other NFL/team/ESPN/draft/Wikipedia resources list him at 5'11" which is closer to accurate but in person even that seems like it might be a stretch) and was just such a hard worker with a great football mind and decent physical attributes that he worked himself from a nobody into a multi-year starter into a 7th round draft pick into an NFL starter before a bunch of nasty injuries derailed his career.
Never in my life would I have thought he was going to play serious college football much less end up starting in the NFL. I was legitimately quicker and faster than he was, and he wasn't very big. I was dead wrong. All of the places that passed on him were dead wrong. And because of guys like him, I will never prejudge somebody who has A+ intangibles even if their physical attributes aren't elite. He was rounded up to 5'11" 200 pounds and ran a 4.65 40 yard dash... and was an NFL starter. Hard to wrap your mind around. Definitely an exception to the rule, but also why no one should prejudge here.
Your last sentence is nonsensical. No one is claiming we build an entire team out of 3 star kids. And Nico wasn't recruited only as a special teams player. I'll bet you anything he plays meaningful defensive minutes before he leaves ND.
Crazy Balki
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The competition is a big reason why I think this kid is underrated. Very often, it's hard to show off any physical attributes if you're playing against bigger, stronger and faster guys. I mentioned this when comparing Coney and Nick Conner. It's also why I think we got a steal in Guyton, who plays in arguably the toughest division of football at the HS level.
drake29
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Which is what should worry you about him playing at the next level. Everyone he plays against will be that much bigger/faster/stronger. If I were a Nevada fan I'd be pumped, but ND plays a schedule that features the likes of USC, Stanford, Florida State, Georgia, etc.
drake29
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Nico is listed at 5-9 running a 4.55 on his recruiting site page. These numbers are often times adjusted to make the prospect taller and faster. He may be all of 5-9 but that 4.55 is probably more like a 4.65 or 4.7 at best at the NFL combine. Cody Grimm was clocked at a 4.48 and is listed at 5'11.
Dwshade - as far as my last sentence goes, we are building a class out of less highly regarded players. I wasn't saying that anyone on IE was saying we should, more stating that the staff seems much more content to settle with projects in this class as opposed to any other class since the beginning of the BK era. As far as YOUR last sentence goes I hope you are wrong. That means the staff hasn't done an adequate job of adding or developing highly regarded recruits.
Dwshade - as far as my last sentence goes, we are building a class out of less highly regarded players. I wasn't saying that anyone on IE was saying we should, more stating that the staff seems much more content to settle with projects in this class as opposed to any other class since the beginning of the BK era. As far as YOUR last sentence goes I hope you are wrong. That means the staff hasn't done an adequate job of adding or developing highly regarded recruits.
Grahambo
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Oh, look, more discussion about size. Again, size is overrated. Now, let's not become a smartass about it but size, for the most part, isn't as important as some like to think.
Kid has got skill and he has got heart. EVEN if he only turns into a stud special teams player, a special teams ace is extremely valuable. Field position is an often over-looked mega-battle that should not be overlooked. Look at the NFL, they pay good money for strict special teams players and they get invited to the Pro Bowl. There's a reason for that.
#MikeAnello
Kid has got skill and he has got heart. EVEN if he only turns into a stud special teams player, a special teams ace is extremely valuable. Field position is an often over-looked mega-battle that should not be overlooked. Look at the NFL, they pay good money for strict special teams players and they get invited to the Pro Bowl. There's a reason for that.
#MikeAnello
TheTurningPoint
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Im lost. He isnt going to show off any physical attributes if he plays bigger, stronger, faster guys in high school? He will be playing better competition at ND than at Bishop Gorman.
The competition Nicco plays is easily some of toughest in the country, and he does well. That is a great thing. He is never going to blow people away with his size but you can tell he has started to fill out in the last year.
I am intrigued to see how he does this year against Servite. I have heard that he played a nice game against them this year, but it would be hard to find a more dynamic QB/WR tandem to face than Waller/St.Brown.
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OK but what I'm saying is that this is not the case. Scout lists him as 5'11" (no), 247 lists him as 5'10", the other two list him at 5'9". ISD, which has seen him up close and personal, said he's "somewhere between 5-foot-9 and 5-foot-10" in their in the film room review.
People are acting like he's a 5'8" 160 munchkin being overlisted at 5'9"... in truth he's very close to 5'10" and a solid 180. He's got comparable size to Matt Elam, which isn't good but doesn't prohibit him from playing the position.
I dunno where you're seeing that. I think there might be some miss-listings like the profile I noted that had him erroneously at 6'1". He ran a 4.64 official.
Virginia Tech's Cody Grimm rips through his 40-yard dash at the NFL Combine - ACC All Access - dailypress.com
If you think this staff's recruiting strategy this year was to be "content" (whatever the hell that means) with getting a bunch of projects then you haven't a clue about how this staff recruits. And your last 2 sentences make no sense. If Fertitta contributes like I think he will then that means the staff will have done a great job of player development.
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I'm with you ITP... NF will get to show off what he has against a MURDERER'S ROW of a high school schedule. Phoenix Brophy, Servite, Bingham, UT, Centenial, CA, Santa Margarita, CA and John Bosco, CA to start off a season??? NOOOOBODY is starting off their season in the country against that much firepower. It's the toughest high school schedule, I've EVER seen.
I'll see 3 of these games as I bounce back and forth between OC and Scottsdale.
Don't forget everybody... this kid has access to trainers that most likely, nobody has ever been able to duplicate in the history of high school sports.
At the very worst.... He should end up a black belt in Mike Anello special teams ju-jitsu while playing meaningful minutes in his upperclassmen years.
....and found a QB/WR combo in a half a second to match the Servite guys... Kyler Murray and the one and only Jalen Guyton. Not sure how good Guyton will be but St. Brown isn't all that in my opinion. I'd take Boykin with a twisted ankle before St Brown.
drake29
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How this staff has recruited over the past several years is to identify 3-4 RKGs then try to nab the top level guys until later in the cycle. For the most part this has worked well with a few notable exceptions (Lynch, Vanderdoes, Shepard). Even the RKGs they identify early on are kids who have good measurable (Farley, Brent, Martini). Let's just call this what it is - Nico's last name means something. If his last name were Smith he wouldn't sniff an offer until January/February - or MAYBE be offered a spot as a preferred walk on. Even taking the Cody Grimm comparison into account - he was a walk on at Virginia Tech. Nobody expected him to be an NFL player some day, and his development is far from the norm for a player of his size/athletic limitations. If size didn't come into play you would see a lot more players at 5-6/5-7 roaming the fields at college and NFL games - it absolutely matters.
All of the second guessing regarding the staff's decision to offer Nicco is irrelevant. He just finished his junior year in high school. He will gain some weight and perhaps another inch or two in height before he reaches Notre Dame.
Whether or not the offer was a good one or not may never be known. Nicco could easily prove all the doubters wrong with his play on the field. He could also end up buried on the depth chart. Only time will tell. He plays without fear, and I expect him to be a productive player for the Irish.
However, what seems to be most relevant is that many of the top recruits (the 5-stars) either aren't interested in Notre Dame or don't qualify academically. Fertitta wants to be at Notre Dame, and he has what a number of our past recruits lacked: an aggressive, won't be denied attitude on the field. He has the aggressiveness of a Braxton Cave or a Chris Watt. I have a feeling we are going to "ooh" and "ah" following some of his hits as a defensive back or as a special teams player.
Thanks for choosing Notre Dame, Nicco.
Whether or not the offer was a good one or not may never be known. Nicco could easily prove all the doubters wrong with his play on the field. He could also end up buried on the depth chart. Only time will tell. He plays without fear, and I expect him to be a productive player for the Irish.
However, what seems to be most relevant is that many of the top recruits (the 5-stars) either aren't interested in Notre Dame or don't qualify academically. Fertitta wants to be at Notre Dame, and he has what a number of our past recruits lacked: an aggressive, won't be denied attitude on the field. He has the aggressiveness of a Braxton Cave or a Chris Watt. I have a feeling we are going to "ooh" and "ah" following some of his hits as a defensive back or as a special teams player.
Thanks for choosing Notre Dame, Nicco.
Booslum31
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Thinking he's going to be a menace on Special Teams...Steve Tasker.
Crazy Balki
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I couldn't disagree with you more. I believe it's the exact opposite. I never said he looked bad against good competition, because he probably wouldn't be ranked if that were the case. In fact, he looks really good. Going up against some of the best teams in the country are not only good practice for facing stiffer competition at the college level, but also an easier way to gauge his potential.
dublinirish
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i would compare nicco to collinsworth, if he has that kind of decent ST career and then some depth at DB then i think we can all be happy
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Bogtrotter07
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Shouldn't limit yourself like that.
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Bogtrotter07
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I am already happy. You happy, too, deartháir?
ResLife Hero
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Irish S commit <a href="https://twitter.com/NFsoCrucial">@NFsoCrucial</a> on his physical style - "It's a big momentum change when you crack someone" ($) <a href="http://t.co/LGXBK7p6Sa">http://t.co/LGXBK7p6Sa</a></p>— Anna Hickey (@AnnaHScout) <a href="https://twitter.com/AnnaHScout/statuses/489764676368990209">July 17, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Bogtrotter07
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You and I both remember the Harrison Smith hatred. That blossomed into full Tommy Rees hatred, and what did he end up third on the all-time list? It wasn't either of their fault if they had the wrong system for their talent in place. Both guys always played their hearts out.
And then Stephon Tuitt last year. The hatred for him after having a serious sports hernia repair. Go figure.
That will be me next to you sitting there with the popcorn watching the ass-hats having to eat their "famous last words," once again; I will share!
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tko
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Amen, popcorn popping Bogs.