A Song of Ice and Fire (Spoilers! Only enter if you have read all books)

[IrishLion]

Yeah, that "prophecy" from Bran's dream seems to fit just about perfectly with the imagery of Brienne/Sandor and Jaime vs undead Mountain.

It's crazy how people put these theories together. And with how detailed Martin's writing is, it will be interesting to see how many of these theories end up being correct.

R + L = J has to be one of those true theories, right?

More than anything, though, I'm holding out hope for Howland Reed as the High Septon. He was the only one with Ned Stark at the Tower of Joy. He's going to have some role to play in things, and I hope it turns out good for him at least.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

More than anything, though, I'm holding out hope for Howland Reed as the High Septon. He was the only one with Ned Stark at the Tower of Joy. He's going to have some role to play in things, and I hope it turns out good for him at least.

I'm coming around to it. I was initially agnostic, but it would be unlike Martin for him to build a character up to near mythic proportions only to have him swoop in at the 11th hour or, worse, to never appear at all. Would be much more in line with Martin's style to hide him in plain sight, which sets up nicely for a dramatic reveal.

 

[gkIrish]

Here's an interesting theory regarding "Cleganebowl" (and lots of other stuff). It ties together a bunch of prophecies for which I hadn't yet seen a coherent framework.

This would be so awesome. Very plausible. I especially like the part about killing the Mountain with Thoros' sword.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Even if the High Septon isn't Howland Reed (although that's my favorite theory ever), he is certainly from at least the Neck or farther north because Brienne came across him travelling south in the Riverlands. Even if he's not Howland Reed there's a damn good chance he's a Stark loyalist or anti-southron.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This would be so awesome. Very plausible. I especially like the part about killing the Mountain with Thoros' sword.

Oathkeeper seems more likely. Valyrian steel is supposedly effective against the undead.

Better yet, as Brienne dies in Jamie's arms (or visa versa), it gets forged in his/her lover's breast and becomes the true Lightbringer.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I love this theory. Jaime strangling Cersei with his gold hand that she had made for him would be a fine end for her

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Oathkeeper seems more likely. Valyrian steel is supposedly effective against the undead.

Better yet, as Brienne dies in Jamie's arms (or visa versa), it gets forged in his/her lover's breast and becomes the true Lightbringer.

Boom!

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Here's an interesting theory regarding "Cleganebowl" (and lots of other stuff). It ties together a bunch of prophecies for which I hadn't yet seen a coherent framework.

I'm not a huge fan of it. Sansa is being raised to be too big of a player to end up marrying Gendry. I don't see Jaime being able to prove himself to Lady Stoneheart. She's going to want him dead. Period. I don't see Brienne dying in the midst of a large battle like that. How many main characters have we seen die that way? Robb and Cat were killed in the Red Wedding, but they were killed after a lot of the deaths happened in the hall. I don't see the Hound rushing in with perfect timing like that out of nowhere. I don't even know why he would leave the Quiet Isle. The reason why the Cleganebowl theory works is that he would be the Faith's Champion.

And there would be no reason for the wedding to be at Harenhal. She's getting married to united the Vale and the Northern Armies. She'll get married in the Vale.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I like to believe the valonqar will be a younger sibling not related to Cersei. Whether it's Sandor, Arya, Daenerys, Aegon, Margarey, whoever. Just not Jaime or Tyrion.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I like to believe the valonqar will be a younger sibling not related to Cersei. Whether it's Sandor, Arya, Daenerys, Aegon, Margarey, whoever. Just not Jaime or Tyrion.

That interpretation is so broad as to be meaningless. As long as her killer isn't a first-born child, then the prophecy could be "fulfilled" by virtually anyone in Westeros. None of Martin's other prophecies have come to pass in such a pedantic fashion.

 

[Emcee77]

Here's an interesting theory regarding "Cleganebowl" (and lots of other stuff). It ties together a bunch of prophecies for which I hadn't yet seen a coherent framework.

Wow, the basics of that theory make almost too much sense! I love it.

I think he's set it up wrong ... I don't see why the wedding would be at Harrenhal rather than the Vale. That part isn't convincing to me at all. But unless I'm missing something, that part's not essential to the theory. The fight he describes, with the consequences he describes, could come to pass in some other way or take place in some other context.

P.S. His "bonus" theory of Sansa marrying Gendry? No way. True, there would be some thick irony in Sansa, the one who believed in courtly love and fairy tales and stories of lords and ladies, marrying a blacksmith. But it doesn't ring true for me ... the daughter of Ned Stark should end up making some more strategic match, no?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

That interpretation is so broad as to be meaningless. As long as her killer isn't a first-born child, then the prophecy could be "fulfilled" by virtually anyone in Westeros. None of Martin's other prophecies have come to pass in such a pedantic fashion.

The whole Azor Ahai thing is just as broad. I've seen everyone make a logical connection to the forging of Lightbringer from Jon Snow to Jaime to Lancel to Moonboy for all I know. I wouldn't be surprised if the valonqar prophecy is totally meaningless and is just a source of Cersei's madness.

I also don't want to see Myrcella and Tommen die because I really like them, although Tommen's is inevitable when Aegon smashes his head in.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Wow, the basics of that theory make almost too much sense! I love it.

I think he's set it up wrong ... I don't see why the wedding would be at Harrenhal rather than the Vale. That part isn't convincing to me at all. But unless I'm missing something, that part's not essential to the theory. The fight he describes, with the consequences he describes, could come to pass in some other way or take place in some other context.

P.S. His "bonus" theory of Sansa marrying Gendry? No way. True, there would be some thick irony in Sansa, the one who believed in courtly love and fairy tales and stories of lords and ladies, marrying a blacksmith. But it doesn't ring true for me ... the daughter of Ned Stark should end up making some more strategic match, no?

I recently read an interesting theory on Jon and Sansa and how their stories are linked (Sansa now a "bastard" Jon now a knight of sorts). It sets up that Sansa is going to marry someone completely unlike who you would have expected her to. Are you familiar? I will look for it if not

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Wow, the basics of that theory make almost too much sense! I love it.

I think he's set it up wrong ... I don't see why the wedding would be at Harrenhal rather than the Vale. That part isn't convincing to me at all. But unless I'm missing something, that part's not essential to the theory. The fight he describes, with the consequences he describes, could come to pass in some other way or take place in some other context.

P.S. His "bonus" theory of Sansa marrying Gendry? No way. True, there would be some thick irony in Sansa, the one who believed in courtly love and fairy tales and stories of lords and ladies, marrying a blacksmith. But it doesn't ring true for me ... the daughter of Ned Stark should end up making some more strategic match, no?

It's essential because the Robert Strong army would not get beyond the Bloody Gate with it still being an ambush and without losing most of their men. The BWB would also not be able to get there. The natural protection of the Vale is too much for there to be a battle there like that.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The whole Azor Ahai thing is just as broad. I've seen everyone make a logical connection to the forging of Lightbringer from Jon Snow to Jaime to Lancel to Moonboy for all I know. I wouldn't be surprised if the valonqar prophecy is totally meaningless and is just a source of Cersei's madness.

That's a possibility, too; it's either that or she dies at the hands of one of her brothers. Having a non-Lannister kill Cersei and then claiming it "fits the prophecy" because High Valyrian is genderless and that person wasn't a first-born would be f*cking stupid.

I also don't want to see Myrcella and Tommen die because I really like them, although Tommen's is inevitable when Aegon smashes his head in.

I have no idea what Aegon is going to accomplish, but I'd bet large sums that he doesn't end up handing out titles at the end.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I have no idea what Aegon is going to accomplish, but I'd bet large sums that he doesn't end up handing out titles at the end.

Aegon doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would go easy on the Lannisters and Tyrells. I expect a massacre when he takes King's Landing (which I think is inevitable). I'm more interested to see who ends up being his queen. Sansa and Arianne both have good cases IMO.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

I actually combined two theories in my recollection but I found the one post that I enjoyed reading. It deals with the arcs of Jon and Sansa and how the Myth of Persephone looms of both of them

ASOIAF University

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

The Blackfish is going to end up being very important in the Vale, the BWB, or in the North. I think wherever he ends up, he will change everything up. If he goes to the Vale I think he could throw off Littlefinger's plan majorly.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Aegon doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would go easy on the Lannisters and Tyrells. I expect a massacre when he takes King's Landing (which I think is inevitable).

Who knows what kind of a guy he is? He came out of the blue in Book Five, and there's good reason to believe he's not the genuine article. That does not lead me to believe that he's going to be successful; though he does have the advantage of having landed in Westeros after most of his enemies have exhausted themselves.

I'm more interested to see who ends up being his queen. Sansa and Arianne both have good cases IMO.

Arianne getting crowned would be a bit anti-climatic.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Even if the High Septon isn't Howland Reed (although that's my favorite theory ever), he is certainly from at least the Neck or farther north because Brienne came across him travelling south in the Riverlands. Even if he's not Howland Reed there's a damn good chance he's a Stark loyalist or anti-southron.

Has it been established that the traveler Brienne met on the road is the new High Septon? I think his backstory of turning outlaw (which he just suggests, not explicitly states, I must admit) would preclude him from having been anyone of importance, wouldn't it?

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I think the Red Wedding 2.0 is a good bet for the BWB. They've got a man inside Riverrun, there is going to be a marriage there, and the show also set itself up for another marriage with Walder's wife being killed in the RW. That would be a great scene. BWB crash the wedding, slaughtering Freys and Lannisters, Lady Stoneheart walks in and kills Walder Frey.

Wishful thinking.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Who knows what kind of a guy he is? He came out of the blue in Book Five, and there's good reason to believe he's not the genuine article. That does not lead me to believe that he's going to be successful; though he does have the advantage of having landed in Westeros after most of his enemies have exhausted themselves.



Arianne getting crowned would be a bit anti-climatic.

It's certainly true we don't know Aegon well but Varas seems to put a lot of importance in his high character. At least, he would have no motive to lie about that when talking to a dying Kevan Lannister.

EDIT: after re-reading the comments I see you weren't speaking to his overall moral character so NM.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Who knows what kind of a guy he is? He came out of the blue in Book Five, and there's good reason to believe he's not the genuine article. That does not lead me to believe that he's going to be successful; though he does have the advantage of having landed in Westeros after most of his enemies have exhausted themselves.



Arianne getting crowned would be a bit anti-climatic.

He's impulsive and childish as he showed with Tyrion and his invasion and snubbing of Daenerys. He's not going to be on the Iron Throne at the end, but he's got the Golden Company, "friends in the Reach", possibly Dorne, and Storm's End. He's the closest to taking advantage of the turmoil in King's Landing.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Has it been established that the traveler Brienne met on the road is the new High Septon? I think his backstory of turning outlaw (which he just suggests, not explicitly states, I must admit) would preclude him from having been anyone of importance, wouldn't it?

His description is pretty much identical I think. Short septon, grey and brown beard, black feet. The backstory of the High Septon is strange, which lends to the mystery. He was popular among the commonfolk and they made him the new High Septon. We know nothing about Howland, so he could have travelled around, trying to get support around the time Ned died.

 

[DSully1995]

I love this theory. Jaime strangling Cersei with his gold hand that she had made for him would be a fine end for her

Hands of gold are always cold...

 

[Emcee77]

It's essential because the Robert Strong army would not get beyond the Bloody Gate with it still being an ambush and without losing most of their men. The BWB would also not be able to get there. The natural protection of the Vale is too much for there to be a battle there like that.

Army? Ambush? Vale? None of these elements is essential, imo. Maybe I haven't thought it through, but all you need for the theory to be persuasive is for the fight described in the portion of this post beginning with the 5th paragraph, involving the half-dozen or so people described in that section of the post, to take place. It could take place in King's Landing or Winterfell or anywhere. There's at least two books left, and things could change dramatically with all those pages left. As Whiskey said, it draws many prophecies together that I didn't really understand, so it's at least worth considering even if we don't know how exactly how the fight comes to pass.

 

[Emcee77]

I actually combined two theories in my recollection but I found the one post that I enjoyed reading. It deals with the arcs of Jon and Sansa and how the Myth of Persephone looms of both of them

ASOIAF University

Many interesting points. Thanks!

 

[IrishLion]

Oathkeeper seems more likely. Valyrian steel is supposedly effective against the undead.

Better yet, as Brienne dies in Jamie's arms (or visa versa), it gets forged in his/her lover's breast and becomes the true Lightbringer.

What if Jaime kills Cersei with Oathkeeper?

If fulfills the Volanquar prophecy.
It could potentially create Lightbringer and make Jaime Azhor Ahai, because he would be forging it in the breast of his lover.
And it is a means of Jaime showing his change to Lady Stoneheart and that he's working on keeping his oath.

The only trouble I have is that Jaime as the Lord of Light incarnate doesn't have the "wow" factor since he hasn't been connected to the Lord of Light storyline at all yet... but it would also make sense in that Bran is always seeing Jaime in his dreams as a sun-like being (light).

 

[Whiskeyjack]

What if Jaime kills Cersei with Oathkeeper?

If fulfills the Volanquar prophecy.
It could potentially create Lightbringer and make Jaime Azhor Ahai, because he would be forging it in the breast of his lover.
And it is a means of Jaime showing his change to Lady Stoneheart and that he's working on keeping his oath.

The only trouble I have is that Jaime as the Lord of Light incarnate doesn't have the "wow" factor since he hasn't been connected to the Lord of Light storyline at all yet... but it would also make sense in that Bran is always seeing Jaime in his dreams as a sun-like being (light).

The Azor Ahai prophecy is really vague, so this is all very imprecise, but there are a couple big problems with that interpretation. First, Maggy the Frog's prophecy is pretty clear that on how Cersei is going to die:

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Every other portion of her prophecy has been quite literally fulfilled already, so I'm fairly confident that Cersei isn't going to die via impalement.

Also, the Azor Ahai legend strongly implies that the "magic" which finally perfects Lightbringer is the love between him and Nissa Nissa. At this point in the series, there isn't much love left between Jamie and Cersei. Assuming that Lightbringer must be reforged (instead of someone discovering the original), I'd bet that process is going to involve a heroic sacrifice between two actual lovers.

 

[IrishLion]

Perhaps Jaime will return to Kings Landing and Cersei gets her hands on Oathkeeper and tries to kill him... Until Brienne steps in a takes the fatal blow. Then Jaime strangles Cersei out of anger, he pulls Oathkeeper from Briennes chest to create Lightbringer, and bam! Reformed Clegane shows up just in time to prevent Robert Strong from murdering everyone, fighting alongside reformed Jaime.