Jucos....

[kmoose]

Along about late September or early October, there will be a thread on here where someone will mention ND's recruiting being handicapped by not taking Junior College transfers. Someone else will challenge them to name some teams that have Jucos who make a difference. So, as a reference point, I offer the following article: Alabama Crimson Tide win recruiting war and moves up in latest Way-Too-Early Top 25 - ESPN

Note that the Top 4, and 5 of the Top 6, brought in Juco transfers. It will be interesting to look back and see how many, if any, of these guys play a significant role in their team's success, THIS year.

 

[T Town Tommy]

In Bama's case, I don't think they have had great success going the JUCO route. Outside of Jesse Williams and Deion Belue, most have seen little playing time and even less impact.

 

[kmoose]

In Bama's case, I don't think they have had great success going the JUCO route. Outside of Jesse Williams and Deion Belue, most have seen little playing time and even less impact.

Having quality depth can sometimes make an impact, even if the backup never sees the field. Sometimes it allows the coaches to implement schemes that they wouldn't otherwise be able to. If the backup O linemen can't zone block, then you aren't going to run a zone blocking offense. If you do, and one of your starters gets hurt, you're probably going to get your RB killed with the backup lineman in there.

 

[wizards8507]

In Bama's case, I don't think they have had great success going the JUCO route. Outside of Jesse Williams and Deion Belue, most have seen little playing time and even less impact.

Part of that might be a function of Alabama's admissions standards in the first place. A lot of the JUCO-type guys might have gotten in to Alabama in the first place so they didn't HAVE to go the JUCO route.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Having quality depth can sometimes make an impact, even if the backup never sees the field. Sometimes it allows the coaches to implement schemes that they wouldn't otherwise be able to. If the backup O linemen can't zone block, then you aren't going to run a zone blocking offense. If you do, and one of your starters gets hurt, you're probably going to get your RB killed with the backup lineman in there.

I agree. Outside of a few here or there that really step up, most will fill that depth role more than anything. There are always exceptions as some really good players have to go the JUCO route due to not preparing themselves in high school.

The case for JUCO transfers at ND is interesting. I don't really know the school's policy on JUCO transfers, but I am guessing they don't allow it. I do think there are some JUCO players who could go to ND and who could make it in the classroom too. But, the coach better be right in who he chooses. Otherwise, I would think he would be in some serious hot water if one were to fail.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Part of that might be a function of Alabama's admissions standards in the first place. A lot of the JUCO-type guys might have gotten in to Alabama in the first place so they didn't HAVE to go the JUCO route.

Not necessarily. Out of their JUCO transfers the past 4-5 years, there were about half that were originally committed to the school but failed to make it in on grades. Don't hold me to that at face value, as I would have to go back and look to be accurate. But I do know Belue fell in that category.

 

[wizards8507]

I agree. Outside of a few here or there that really step up, most will fill that depth role more than anything. There are always exceptions as some really good players have to go the JUCO route due to not preparing themselves in high school.

The case for JUCO transfers at ND is interesting. I don't really know the school's policy on JUCO transfers, but I am guessing they don't allow it. I do think there are some JUCO players who could go to ND and who could make it in the classroom too. But, the coach better be right in who he chooses. Otherwise, I would think he would be in some serious hot water if one were to fail.

I don't think there's a "policy" per se. ND wouldn't steer a kid to a JUCO with the intent of picking him up in two years, but if he happened to do so on his own I don't think there are any rules in place preventing the staff from revisiting the recruitment. It also probably couldn't be a true "junior college" in the strictest sense of the term. Transfers would probably have to come from legitimate four-year schools so that transfer credits would be applicable to a Notre Dame degree.

 

[irishfan]

In Bama's case, I don't think they have had great success going the JUCO route. Outside of Jesse Williams and Deion Belue, most have seen little playing time and even less impact.

Terrence Cody!

Menzie got drafted as a DB. Quinton Dial was pretty beastly.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I don't think there's a "policy" per se. ND wouldn't steer a kid to a JUCO with the intent of picking him up in two years, but if he happened to do so on his own I don't think there are any rules in place preventing the staff from revisiting the recruitment. It also probably couldn't be a true "junior college" in the strictest sense of the term. Transfers would probably have to come from legitimate four-year schools so that transfer credits would be applicable to a Notre Dame degree.

That makes sense then. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Terrence Cody!

Menzie got drafted as a DB. Quinton Dial was pretty beastly.

Menzie was pretty solid. Cody was ...well...huge. Dial underperformed IMO. Added depth but didn't really stand out. I believe Carpenter was JUCO as well and was drafted in the first round. Why I don't know. He was really not very good.

 

[RDU Irish]

Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals.com junior college postseason top 100 2014

SEC and the state of Arizona pretty much own this list of 100 top JUCO "recruits". Kind of interesting to see some familiar names (Tee, Prestwood).

Also seems like a great way to grow OL, DL. Big difference b/w an 18 year old and 20 year old when you are talking about building a 300 pound monster. Why waste a few years of schollie on a kid that won't scratch the OL depth chart if you can pick one out of JUCO that is ready to contribute (and less likely to bust).

 

[zelezo vlk]

Wait, are they seriously saying that FSU should be #1 in that poll? Though they did just win a championship, I think Saban has proven that he should be given the #1 spot...although I think a fight at the top is more interesting than Bama merely having the top spot.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't think there's a "policy" per se. ND wouldn't steer a kid to a JUCO with the intent of picking him up in two years, but if he happened to do so on his own I don't think there are any rules in place preventing the staff from revisiting the recruitment. It also probably couldn't be a true "junior college" in the strictest sense of the term. Transfers would probably have to come from legitimate four-year schools so that transfer credits would be applicable to a Notre Dame degree.

I can't remember what thread it was in but BGIF laid out the plethora of reasons why ND would almost never take a transfer much less a JUCO. It is primarily what freshmen and sophomore credit hours one would have to have just to transfer in as a junior. Most kids from JUCO or even other institutions would not meet NDs requirements (or at least would be highly unlikely).

 

[wizards8507]

I can't remember what thread it was in but BGIF laid out the plethora of reasons why ND would almost never take a transfer much less a JUCO. It is primarily what freshmen and sophomore credit hours one would have to have just to transfer in as a junior. Most kids from JUCO or even other institutions would not meet NDs requirements (or at least would be highly unlikely).

Yeah I think that's what I was trying to get at but you said it better. ND will almost never take a JUCO, not because there are specific rules saying "no JUCOs," but because of a bunch of other little rules that apply to all transfer applicants to the University.

Edit: I think they closest we might ever get would be a die-hard ND kid who only wants to play for the Irish. He's academically solid but is missing something like the foreign language requirement. Normally a kid like that just goes to another school to play ball but if he were dead set on ND I suppose it wouldn't be too far "out there" for him to take freshman classes at another four-year school and then apply as a transfer.

 

[IrishLax]

Yahoo Sports: Rivals.com Ranking - Rivals.com junior college postseason top 100 2014

SEC and the state of Arizona pretty much own this list of 100 top JUCO "recruits". Kind of interesting to see some familiar names (Tee, Prestwood).

Also seems like a great way to grow OL, DL. Big difference b/w an 18 year old and 20 year old when you are talking about building a 300 pound monster. Why waste a few years of schollie on a kid that won't scratch the OL depth chart if you can pick one out of JUCO that is ready to contribute (and less likely not to bust).

Yeah, this is all JUCO recruiting really helps for. It allows you to grab plug-and-play power position players, when almost always even 5 true freshmen at those positions are not physically ready yet to be every down players.

Obviously, there are some studs at skill positions as well, but you can find those pretty darn well in just regular prep recruiting and get them ready to play in year 1 if they have the talent.

 

[irish1958]

Wasn't Rudy a JUCO transfer?

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Yeah, this is all JUCO recruiting really helps for. It allows you to grab plug-and-play power position players, when almost always even 5 true freshmen at those positions are not physically ready yet to be every down players.

Obviously, there are some studs at skill positions as well, but you can find those pretty darn well in just regular prep recruiting and get them ready to play in year 1 if they have the talent.

For LSU Cordarrelle Paterson comes to mind.

Edit: That would be Tennessee.

 

[GowerND11]

Wasn't Rudy a JUCO transfer?

Eh... He attended Holy Cross while it was still a 2 year college, but he can'r really count IMO. holy Cross is across the street, and works very closely with Notre Dame, as they are run by the same order. He also worked his butt off to transfer as a student, and tried out as a walk-on, so he is really not much of an example.

 

[RDU Irish]

O Line traditionally is very unusual to see a true freshman starter. That means you are burning a number of your 85 scholarships every year just developing these guys that have virtually zero chance of producing in year one or two. If you consistently take one or two JUCO linemen each year, you are essentially increasing your limit to more like 90 from 85. I would add to that the reduced risk getting stuck with a bust (not that an SEC school wouldn't cut the dead weight or run it out of town), at least theoretically that would be a one or two scholarship per year advantage as well.

 

[phork]

Also adds instant depth when needed.

 

[stlnd01]

Yeah I think that's what I was trying to get at but you said it better. ND will almost never take a JUCO, not because there are specific rules saying "no JUCOs," but because of a bunch of other little rules that apply to all transfer applicants to the University.

Edit: I think they closest we might ever get would be a die-hard ND kid who only wants to play for the Irish. He's academically solid but is missing something like the foreign language requirement. Normally a kid like that just goes to another school to play ball but if he were dead set on ND I suppose it wouldn't be too far "out there" for him to take freshman classes at another four-year school and then apply as a transfer.

Yep. All this.
Any JUCO Notre Dame would take would have to enter junior college intending to/motivated to wind up at Notre Dame and take all the requisite classes, including some that would not be necessary at many other major D-1 programs. But he'd also have to be not qualified to get into Notre Dame coming out of high school (because if he was, why would he Juco?).
The number of people who'd check both these boxes is pretty small. So don't hold your breath on JUCOs.

 

[Legacy]

(T Town Tommy) "In Bama's case, I don't think they have had great success going the JUCO route. Outside of Jesse Williams and Deion Belue, most have seen little playing time and even less impact."

Terrence Cody!

Menzie got drafted as a DB. Quinton Dial was pretty beastly.

And James Carpenter, now with the Seahawks