'14 LA DT Courtney Garnett (Oklahoma Signee)

IrishLion

I am Beyonce, always.
Staff member
Messages
19,127
Reaction score
11,077
Reeeeally. Wasn't expecting that one ... but we have had a lot of success with the nickel and I could see us using more of it.

TCU has used a 4-2-5 as their base defense for many years with great success.

I love the idea of a 4-2-5 look as a base, especially if they find someone that can produce at nickel/star like Slaughter did, or even Shumate as a freshman.

It could afford a rotation as well... you could involve guys Butler and Hendrix for coverage, and others like Collinsworth or Shumate as a S/OLB tweener against the run, but guys that can still get it done in coverage.
 

Sherm Sticky

The Prophet
Messages
19,321
Reaction score
1,638
I love the idea of a 4-2-5 look as a base, especially if they find someone that can produce at nickel/star like Slaughter did, or even Shumate as a freshman.

It could afford a rotation as well... you could involve guys Butler and Hendrix for coverage, and others like Collinsworth or Shumate as a S/OLB tweener against the run, but guys that can still get it done in coverage.
Hendrix?

jimi_hendrix-208241.jpg
 
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
237
in all reality one of the 5 DB's is basically a LB in this alignment anyway.

If say Morgan and Deeb can handle the LB spots that allows Jaylon to move. Jaylon is better than all the DBs against the run and maybe even the pass.

I'm thinking late '14 season or '15 season.
 

GBdomer

People's Champion
Messages
6,845
Reaction score
555
I think Pete Sampson has pointed out it will be a 3-4 defense but they will also run a ton of 4-3 sets. A lot of what we did this season. But I believe you will see more 4-3 sets this year.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
2 guys from this group Deeb/ Morgan/ Grace at LB

and move Jaylon to one of the 5 DB spots

If Jaylon is better in coverage than our #1 NB, absolutely. But then that's not really a Nickel package; that's just a base 4-3 with a freakishly talented WLB.
 

GBdomer

People's Champion
Messages
6,845
Reaction score
555
Let's just run our defense like the Seahawks. With a secondary the size of linebackers and a bunch of pass rushers.
 
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
237
If Jaylon is better in coverage than our #1 NB, absolutely. But then that's not really a Nickel package; that's just a base 4-3 with a freakishly talented WLB.

Do the LB's responsibilities and/or alignment change in a 4-2-5 compared to the base 4-3?

Is a 4-2-5 just having a freak DB play WLB?
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
6,451
Do the LB's responsibilities and/or alignment change in a 4-2-5 compared to the base 4-3?

Is a 4-2-5 just having a freak DB play WLB?

that's the way i understand it...in all reality jaylon would be doing a lot of the same things he did as a DOG backer this year.
 

pkt77242

IPA Man
Messages
10,805
Reaction score
719
If say Morgan and Deeb can handle the LB spots that allows Jaylon to move. Jaylon is better than all the DBs against the run and maybe even the pass.

I'm thinking late '14 season or '15 season.

There is no way that Jaylon is better than KVR against the pass.
 

pkt77242

IPA Man
Messages
10,805
Reaction score
719
Do the LB's responsibilities and/or alignment change in a 4-2-5 compared to the base 4-3?

Is a 4-2-5 just having a freak DB play WLB?

Usually 4-2-5 are used by undersized teams to wreak havoc with speed since they don't have the size to compete that way.
 
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
237
There is no way that Jaylon is better than KVR against the pass.

I think if given the reps, Jaylon could be better or pretty damn close to KVR.

Usually 4-2-5 are used by undersized teams to wreak havoc with speed since they don't have the size to compete that way.

that's the way i understand it...in all reality jaylon would be doing a lot of the same things he did as a DOG backer this year.

So I take the "4-2-5" to mean we will just be adding some blitzing.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Do the LB's responsibilities and/or alignment change in a 4-2-5 compared to the base 4-3?

Is a 4-2-5 just having a freak DB play WLB?

that's the way i understand it...in all reality jaylon would be doing a lot of the same things he did as a DOG backer this year.

3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc. only describe the defensive personnel; not the formation. Formation is typically dictated by the offense. Whether or not the NB is in the box depends on how the opposing WRs are aligned.

Usually 4-2-5 are used by undersized teams to wreak havoc with speed since they don't have the size to compete that way.

TCU gets away with using it as their base defense because they play in the pass-happy Big-12. ND plays way too many MANBALL-type teams to do the same, though I fully expect us to utilize it frequently against spread teams. Hell, the NB is practically a starter on most NFL teams now.
 
Messages
2,475
Reaction score
237
3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc. only describe the defensive personnel; not the formation. Formation is typically dictated by the offense. Whether or not the NB is in the box depends on how the opposing WRs are aligned.

Ok, that clears that up for me. Thx.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

GoldenToTheGrave

Well-known member
Messages
1,907
Reaction score
772
3-4, 4-3, 4-2-5, etc. only describe the defensive personnel; not the formation. Formation is typically dictated by the offense. Whether or not the NB is in the box depends on how the opposing WRs are aligned.



TCU gets away with using it as their base defense because they play in the pass-happy Big-12. ND plays way too many MANBALL-type teams to do the same, though I fully expect us to utilize it frequently against spread teams. Hell, the NB is practically a starter on most NFL teams now.

I know the Jets and Patriots play a "hybrid 3-4/4-3", but I'm still not completely sure what the means. I know there's a lot of switching from the base package, but is there anything more to it? I've thought it may be something with 3 down lineman 2-gaping with another down player, basically playing a dedicated pass rusher. Haven't been able to find anything that goes more in depth.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
We have Tranquil, Baratti, and Smith.

We also have some very flexible linemen and linebackers like Okwara (A Star is born) and Williams, (Who will blow the top off this year.)
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
I know the Jets and Patriots play a "hybrid 3-4/4-3", but I'm still not completely sure what the means. I know there's a lot of switching from the base package, but is there anything more to it? I've thought it may be something with 3 down lineman 2-gaping with another down player, basically playing a dedicated pass rusher. Haven't been able to find anything that goes more in depth.

Good guess. This article by Chris Brown on NTs explains it well. They switch technique and gap-responsibilities around the NT.

For instance, as the best NT in the game, Wilfork almost always two-gaps and puts the opposing C on roller-skates. But the guys to either side of him occasionally two-gap, one-gap, stunt, etc. The number of down linemen is ultimately less important than what sort of technique they're using.

To possibly shed some light on the great BvG Scheme Debate, the above is the only combo I'm aware of that can accurately be described as a "hybrid" defensive front. And I'm virtually certain that BvG will not be implementing something like it, because it's very complex. People sometimes refer to a 3-4 as a hybrid scheme since the ROLB occasionally puts his hand in the dirt, but aside from that rather superficial aspect, there's nothing very hybrid about it (note the simplicity of Diaco's scheme), as the DL still two-gaps on all standard downs. I'd bet large sums that BvG will implement a 4-3 over/under, similar to what Mattison runs at Michigan. Still utilizes a NT, but it's a true 4-3 scheme that utilizes simple one-gap techniques.
 
Last edited:

Irish#1

Livin' Your Dream!
Staff member
Messages
44,583
Reaction score
20,035
So how 'bout this Garnett kid? What's our chances?
 
Top