Upshot for the Rest of the Class (2014 Edition)

[koonja]

@TomLoy247: Recruit Reaction: VanGorder to #NotreDame. Commits react to the recent hire of the new defensive coordinator Recruit Reaction: VanGorder to ND @BGInews

Don't really know where to put this.

You put it in the right spot.

All recruits said they're now growing mustaches and will buy blazers to be worn to practice everyday. No info.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Are there any planned visits still to come aside from Alexander and McKenzie?

 

[Ironman8]

Are there any planned visits still to come aside from Alexander and McKenzie?

Trying to get all the DT targets on campus.

 

[Irish YJ]

I think we can. Bigger question is whether or not that's really a good idea. I truly believe Dickerson is the single most talented DT available right now. His ratings might be low but I think he has more talent than Sawyers, McDowell, etc. But there is a bigger philosophical question about recruiting a Cali kid who is "torn" or otherwise strongly pulled to stay home. Historically, prospects who play the flip-flop game with the exception of Stephon Tuitt don't work out well. Similarly, historically Cali prospects who aren't all-in for ND don't work out well.

I'll be really stoked if we can flip him back, but regardless we probably need to recruit another DT alongside him.

Love to have him, but agree it may not be the best thing long term for both parties. Can't argue with a kid who is taking care of family business. I know I would be staying in Cali.

 

[Cackalacky]

You put it in the right spot.

All recruits said they're now growing mustaches and will buy blazers to be worn to practice everyday. No info.

Don't forget about the planned weekly Longo/VanGorder Strength and Conditioning group meetings (aka the Wayne State Gun Show)

 

[NDhoosier]

Alexander is another name that is out there, but I just think that the need for a DT is greater than a CB. I'd rather take 2 DT's than 1 DT and 1 CB. If it was a highly rated guy, I'd change my tune...or we could just take Alexander and Sawyers.

Well, before Dickerson decommitted, the staff was going to take both McKenzie and Quick, not sure why that would change now. If it ends with 2 WRs and 2 DTs, I am fine with that as well. Heck It would be awesome if ND oversigned by 1 and took 2 WRs, 2 DT, and 1 DB.

I just really want Quick and McKenzie both to sign with ND, they are different WRs and very good at what they do.

 

[deise mike]

So, all 4 5th years asked back. Does that still leave us with 4 places for 2014 class. I need to keep being reminded.

 

[Cali_domer]

So, all 4 5th years asked back. Does that still leave us with 4 places for 2014 class. I need to keep being reminded.

3 I think.

 

[Brooklyn]

So, all 4 5th years asked back. Does that still leave us with 4 places for 2014 class. I need to keep being reminded.

3. http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/1209150-post182.html

 

[woolybug25]

BK said that he would sign 4 and that 5th years were decided. Since we are keeping 4, that means he plans to oversign by one.

I like that.

 

[johnnycando]

BK said that he would sign 4 and that 5th years were decided. Since we are keeping 4, that means he plans to oversign by one.

I like that.

Early enrollees count against last years numbers.

So he signs 25.

 

[woolybug25]

Early enrollees count against last years numbers.

So he signs 25.

That's 4 to the 85 limit.

 

[palinurus]

I think we can. Bigger question is whether or not that's really a good idea. I truly believe Dickerson is the single most talented DT available right now. His ratings might be low but I think he has more talent than Sawyers, McDowell, etc. But there is a bigger philosophical question about recruiting a Cali kid who is "torn" or otherwise strongly pulled to stay home. Historically, prospects who play the flip-flop game with the exception of Stephon Tuitt don't work out well. Similarly, historically Cali prospects who aren't all-in for ND don't work out well.

I'll be really stoked if we can flip him back, but regardless we probably need to recruit another DT alongside him.

The only factor that may be a little different here than the typical "torn" (Cali or not) kid is that here (and correct me if I am wrong) the sole factor making him torn is related to the dad's illness, not the Hamlet factor or family tug of war issues that we often see from "torn" kids.

Otherwise, my gut is that you are right but I really would love this kid, from the bit I've seen of him.

 

[ACamp1900]

Man, we are talking about four? I see an uphill battle to get to one. no?

 

[woolybug25]

I think we can. Bigger question is whether or not that's really a good idea. I truly believe Dickerson is the single most talented DT available right now. His ratings might be low but I think he has more talent than Sawyers, McDowell, etc. But there is a bigger philosophical question about recruiting a Cali kid who is "torn" or otherwise strongly pulled to stay home. Historically, prospects who play the flip-flop game with the exception of Stephon Tuitt don't work out well. Similarly, historically Cali prospects who aren't all-in for ND don't work out well.

I'll be really stoked if we can flip him back, but regardless we probably need to recruit another DT alongside him.

To each their own, but I don't agree with that. I think McDowell is a significantly better prospect.

 

[Emcee77]

Man, we are talking about four? I see an uphill battle to get to one. no?

Ha yeah ...we don't lead for any of our remaining prospects; in fact the consensus seems to be that we trail for most if not all of them. Hopefully the staff has some tricks up its sleeves.

 

[woolybug25]

Ha yeah ...we don't lead for any of our remaining prospects; in fact the consensus seems to be that we trail for most if not all of them. Hopefully the staff has some tricks up its sleeves.

I think we lead for Sawyers. I expect him to commit to us prior to NSD.

But yeah… other than that I totally agree with ya.

 

[IrishLax]

To each their own, but I don't agree with that. I think McDowell is a significantly better prospect.

He's not in the staff's opinion. Dickerson's camp performance was unbelievable and they considered him a gem. McDowell, on the other hand, has played with inconsistent effort his entire high school career. McDowell is a very good prospect on his physical traits but he also has very low floor. Basically your poor man's version of Stephon Tuitt. Dickerson, as an interior guy, has a better motor with better effort and elite athleticism. Every school Dickerson camped at (USC, UCLA, ND) was blown away.

 

[IrishLax]

Ha yeah ...we don't lead for any of our remaining prospects; in fact the consensus seems to be that we trail for most if not all of them. Hopefully the staff has some tricks up its sleeves.

Yeah, we trail for most or are at best in a pack of schools. At the same time, odds say that we're going to win a couple races here. I think we can get to 4. Terrence Alexander is going to be the most interesting one to watch.

 

[koonja]

He's not in the staff's opinion. Dickerson's camp performance was unbelievable and they considered him a gem. McDowell, on the other hand, has played with inconsistent effort his entire high school career. McDowell is a very good prospect on his physical traits but he also has very low floor. Basically your poor man's version of Stephon Tuitt. Dickerson, as an interior guy, has a better motor with better effort and elite athleticism. Every school Dickerson camped at (USC, UCLA, ND) was blown away.

I believe what you say about the staff and their opinion, but IMO (which doesn't mean much), Dickerson looked horribly un-agile in his film. He could blow up a blocker and/or a play, but if he had to move laterally to make a play, forget about it. I think this is one area Malik/Sawyers have an edge.

 

[Emcee77]

Yeah, we trail for most or are at best in a pack of schools. At the same time, odds say that we're going to win a couple races here. I think we can get to 4. Terrence Alexander is going to be the most interesting one to watch.

This is what I was thinking. Even though when you look at each case individually there is no one who I'm confident will pick ND, we have enough irons in the fire that I think we have a decent shot of getting to 4.

 

[woolybug25]

He's not in the staff's opinion. Dickerson's camp performance was unbelievable and they considered him a gem. McDowell, on the other hand, has played with inconsistent effort his entire high school career. McDowell is a very good prospect on his physical traits but he also has very low floor. Basically your poor man's version of Stephon Tuitt. Dickerson, as an interior guy, has a better motor with better effort and elite athleticism. Every school Dickerson camped at (USC, UCLA, ND) was blown away.

Yeah, but he certainly isn't a slouch in other staff's minds. He has offers from everywhere. He is a first team all american and every single recruiting site sees him as one of the best defensive lineman in the class. When I look at his film compared to Dickerson's, I see a significantly more talented prospect in Malik.

I like Dickerson and think he is very underrated… but I really don't think he is close to Malik.

To each their own though. If Malik magically ended up here, then I hope i'm right!

 

[dwshade]

I think McDowell is a real longshot.

 

[NDdomer2]

I think we lead for Sawyers. I expect him to commit to us prior to NSD.

But yeah… other than that I totally agree with ya.

is this based off some subscription articles. doesnt seem to be much in his thread

 

[IrishLax]

Yeah, but he certainly isn't a slouch in other staff's minds. He has offers from everywhere. He is a first team all american and every single recruiting site sees him as one of the best defensive lineman in the class. When I look at his film compared to Dickerson's, I see a significantly more talented prospect in Malik.

I like Dickerson and think he is very underrated… but I really don't think he is close to Malik.

To each their own though. If Malik magically ended up here, then I hope i'm right!

If Malik ends up here with the right mindset then I have no doubt the coaches can get something good out of him. Coach Kelly, above really all else, has been awesome in coaxing effort out of every player that buys in.

Dickerson would have more offers if:
1. He didn't miss his entire senior season.
2. He didn't already have offers from every school he is interested in (USC, UCLA, ND). It's hard to hate on Dickerson's offers when he had summer offers from every school he wanted.

247 thinks Dickerson is garbage compared to McDowell. All services think on some level McDowell > Dickerson. Dickerson is one of our lowest rated recruits in composite. All I can tell you is that everyone who saw Dickerson up close loved him. He had the ability to play inside in a 3-4 like McDowell does not, and they are different prospects. So it's actually kind of silly to compare/contrast them like we are. Dickerson I don't think can play end well, while McDowell has your prototypical 3-4 DE build like Tuitt but we didn't bother recruiting him. That's a head scratcher, but was explained that we didn't view him as an elite prospect and did not like the inconsistency in his film and were happy with Jay Hayes filling the need for that kind of body.

Maybe our staff is a bunch of idiots. Or maybe McDowell is wildly overrated. Or maybe it's somewhere in between. But for an interior guy, I really think Dickerson is a superior prospect to McDowell.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I thought that Dickerson was thought to be a NG candidate as well, which would be a huge plus over Malik.

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[IrishLax]

I thought that Dickerson was thought to be a NG candidate as well, which would be a huge plus over Malik.

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You're right, he absolutely was. Really two very different players, which is why this discussion in and of itself is a bit weird.

 

[zelezo vlk]

I'd still rather have both, but if I had to choose, gimme the Calif boy. Even with the constant fear of him needing to go home.

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[Ironman8]

I think we lead for Sawyers. I expect him to commit to us prior to NSD.

But yeah… other than that I totally agree with ya.

I'm sorry man but we definitely don't lead for Sawyers right now. Ole Miss undoubtedly has the edge at the moment. We just started recruiting him and he has never been to South Bend. We need a visit before NSD to even be a realistic option IMO.

 

[irishog77]

I alluded to this yesterday when we were talking about Malik. I'd absolutely rather have Dickerson over Malik...based on current team configuration and needs.

If it were recess and I was on the playground picking my team, I'd maybe take Malik though.

If I had to pick one for the next 4 years, not knowing if I were playing a 3-4 or 4-3...I'm not sure who I would take.

I think Malik has a higher ceiling than Dickerson, but as Lax said, probably a lower floor too.