Ken Gurnick HOF Voter

[irishog77]

Crazy how those Braves teams had what will turn out ot be three HOF starters and just couldn't get it done in the postseason... for the record, Maddux is the greatest pure pitcher I have ever seen.

Smoltz?

 

[clashmore_mike]

Smoltz?

Steve Avery

 

[Ironman8]

Greg is easily getting in guys, it's not some Greek Tragedy that a couple of guys didn’t have him on their ballots…

The point is not him ultimately getting in or not - like you said that was never in question. The point is how a baseball writer and HOF can honestly justify leaving him off his ballot. To me it is indefensible, and whoever the 16 were that left him off should never be allowed to vote again. They obviously can not vote rationally and/or objectively.

 

[ACamp1900]

Smoltz?

He won't be a sure fire guy like the other two, but I think he'll get in... yes. I would also vote for him.

Steve Avery

LOL... beat me to it, that was my first thought, "Da hell else could i be talking about hog?? Avery?"

 

[ACamp1900]

The point is not him ultimately getting in or not - like you said that was never in question. The point is how a baseball writer and HOF can honestly justify leaving him off his ballot. To me it is indefensible, and whoever the 16 were that left him off should never be allowed to vote again. They obviously can not vote rationally and/or objectively.

I understand that, my point is it's not worth getting worked up over, like at all.

 

[GowerND11]

The point is not him ultimately getting in or not - like you said that was never in question. The point is how a baseball writer and HOF can honestly justify leaving him off his ballot. To me it is indefensible, and whoever the 16 were that left him off should never be allowed to vote again. They obviously can not vote rationally and/or objectively.

There have been reports of voters leaving their ballots blank as protest to the steroid eras or for some other "just crusades" so in that sense they aren't denying he is HOF worthy but rather taking a stance on something "bigger." I'm sure there are other writers with some kind of belief that no player should be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

[GowerND11]

Smoltz?

He won't be a sure fire guy like the other two, but I think he'll get in... yes. I would also vote for him.



LOL... beat me to it, that was my first thought, "Da hell else could i be talking about hog?? Avery?"

Smoltz will get in. No other pitcher has ever won as many games AND had as many saves in their career.

Edit: 200+ wins and 150+ saves. That says a lot.

 

[ACamp1900]

I would have Smoltz higher than Glavine honestly... and yes hog, I'd even put him above Steve Avery...

 

[GowerND11]

I would have Smoltz higher than Glavine honestly... and yes hog, I'd even put him above Steve Avery...

So would I ACamp.

 

[ACamp1900]

Hell, I'd even take Smoltzy over Kent Merker....

 

[dwshade]

Smoltz is a lock to make it. His stats as a starter and closer are outstanding. Not to mention that he was a money pitcher in the post season. Maddux was absolutely brilliant. When it wasn't his day to pitch he'd sit on the bench and make observations about hitters that other pitchers sitting with him would marvel at. He just saw things that other pitchers never could see. Feel bad for Biggio, missing out by a handful of votes. Should get in next year.

 

[Irish#1]

Greg is easily getting in guys, it's not some Greek Tragedy that a couple of guys didn’t have him on their ballots…

Great point.

I wasn't paying attention to who was being interviewed on DP this morning, but he said a couple of things that caught my attention. He said he had never been asked if he was a first time ballot member or how many votes did he get. If they deserve to get in and get in great. If we win the NC on a fluke play, anyone want to give it back?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Crazy how those Braves teams had what will turn out ot be three HOF starters and just couldn't get it done in the postseason... for the record, Maddux is the greatest pure pitcher I have ever seen.

I love Maddux, but better pure pitcher than Pedro??? I know you hate the Red Sox, but if you could have one guy at the height of their powers pitch a game to save your life and you picked anyone other than Pedro, you're crazy IMO. Combo of raw stuff and heady pitching that is unmatched. Pedro circa 1999 was That Dude.

 

[ACamp1900]

Great point.

I wasn't paying attention to who was being interviewed on DP this morning, but he said a couple of things that caught my attention. He said he had never been asked if he was a first time ballot member or how many votes did he get. If they deserve to get in and get in great. If we win the NC on a fluke play, anyone want to give it back?

Actually, he was talking to our boy Smoltz I believe...

 

[BGIF]

Baseball Hall of Fame Members : A Voting Percentage List by Baseball Almanac

 

[ACamp1900]

The Hammer is sixth..... my man.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I love Maddux, but better pure pitcher than Pedro??? I know you hate the Red Sox, but if you could have one guy at the height of their powers pitch a game to save your life and you picked anyone other than Pedro, you're crazy IMO. Combo of raw stuff and heady pitching that is unmatched. Pedro circa 1999 was That Dude.

Yes. Maddux was better.

From ESPN:

Their individual accomplishments, especially Maddux's, are stunning. Maddux is, by any statistical measure, a top 10 pitcher of all time, probably a top six or seven. He won 355 games, eighth most ever. Spahn, who retired after the 1965 season, is the only pitcher to pitch after 1930 and have more wins than Maddux. Maddux won four Cy Young Awards, had five other top-five finishes, won 15 games for a record 17 years in a row, had a career .610 winning percentage, his 3.16 career ERA was almost a run lower than the league average and his 1994-95 seasons were impossibly brilliant. In those two seasons, he went 35-8 with a 1.60 ERA while the league average was 4.20, a gap of 2.60, which is absolutely amazing.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yes. Maddux was better.

From ESPN:

I know how good Maddux was. As I said, I love Maddux. I think you're wrong that he was better at his peak than Pedro was at his.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I know how good Maddux was. As I said, I love Maddux. I think you're wrong that he was better at his peak than Pedro was at his.

Pedro was great, but what made Maddux better was his glove and leadership on and off the field.

Here is a great article about Maddux and Glavine:

Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2014 announced - ESPN

The parts about Maddux being at 999 walks, the pitch count, and directing Bret Boone are classic

 

[ACamp1900]

If I had to pick one guy to win a game my life depended on??...lol.. I wouldn't go with either honestly. Neither ever struck me as top flight 'big game' guys... with that said both are way up the list of greats in my lifetime, no further dicussion needed there.

If I had to pick that one big game guy, I’m paging Jack Morris. So Cold.

 

[PANDFAN]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Y'all are on Twitter worried about which baseball players' names get to go in some building as if spring football isn't 3 months away. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23sad&src=hash">#sad</a></p>— Connor Tapp (@MeetMeAtTapps) <a href="https://twitter.com/MeetMeAtTapps/statuses/421010195012395008">January 8, 2014</a></blockquote>
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[ACamp1900]

I would also take Schil over Pedro if it's a do or die thing if we are just talking Red Sox and focusing on those big moment games... but just a pure pitching in general? I'm obviously taking Pedro.

 

[irishtrooper]

I know how good Maddux was. As I said, I love Maddux. I think you're wrong that he was better at his peak than Pedro was at his.

He (Maddux)is a better person imo..... I like Maddux better over a period of time, but it pains me to say when Pedro was at his best..... He was better imo. This is from a Cards fan......so no dog in the fight. If anything maybe shaded a little away from Maddux because of the Cubs, but still always thought very highly of him.

 

[Rhode Irish]

When the Sox were finally good enough to play in a ton of big games, Pedro was past his prime.* In the late nineties he pitched some great big games. In limited playoff opportunities, he struck out 19 in a playoff game at Yankee Stadium in the middle of the Yanks' great run and pitched 6+ perfect innings out of the bullpen with an injury that would have put him on the DL in the regular season in a deciding game 5 at Cleveland.

*Side note: Pedro's prime was short enough to make it hard to argue his body of work against the other top guys, kind of like Koufax. That's why I always talk about his peak.

 

[BGIF]

I love Maddux, but better pure pitcher than Pedro??? I know you hate the Red Sox, but if you could have one guy at the height of their powers pitch a game to save your life and you picked anyone other than Pedro, you're crazy IMO. Combo of raw stuff and heady pitching that is unmatched. Pedro circa 1999 was That Dude.

#2 Reason that Players don't get 100% of the votes regardless of performance, biased writers that believe their city's guy, even though not on the ballot, was better than the rivals guy. Neither Jeter nor Rivera will get 100% of the votes from New England BBWAA.


#1 Reason, writers that believe no one should get 100%, period. Ruth was a dominant hitter AND pitcher and only got 95%. Cobb was despised by his comtemporaries but like Ruth his stats were in the stratosphere compared to the others who had played the game. Cobb got 98%. Teddy Baseball and Stan The Man both got only 93%.

 

[irishtrooper]

#2 Reason that Players don't get 100% of the votes regardless of performance, biased writers that believe their city's guy, even though not on the ballot, was better than the rivals guy. Neither Jeter nor Rivera will get 100% of the votes from New England BBWAA.


#1 Reason, writers that believe no one should get 100%, period. Ruth was a dominant hitter AND pitcher and only got 95%. Cobb was despised by his comtemporaries but like Ruth his stats were in the stratosphere compared to the others who had played the game. Cobb got 98%. Teddy Baseball and Stan The Man both got only 93%.

Uhhhhh remembering that Musial and Williams not at 100% makes me wonder what the hell these people are even doing with a vote. Nobody will ever be there

 

[wizards8507]

Very long article on the hall of fame vote and the history of sports journalism as it relates to the steroid era. Worth the read if you're a "baseball guy."

MLB Hall of Fame voting during the steroid era - Grantland

 

[Rhode Irish]

#2 Reason that Players don't get 100% of the votes regardless of performance, biased writers that believe their city's guy, even though not on the ballot, was better than the rivals guy. Neither Jeter nor Rivera will get 100% of the votes from New England BBWAA.


#1 Reason, writers that believe no one should get 100%, period. Ruth was a dominant hitter AND pitcher and only got 95%. Cobb was despised by his comtemporaries but like Ruth his stats were in the stratosphere compared to the others who had played the game. Cobb got 98%. Teddy Baseball and Stan The Man both got only 93%.

Not sure if this is what you meant by quoting my post, but I don't think I'm overly biased with respect to Pedro. I loved watching him pitch and maybe my familiarity with his resume deepens my appreciation for how good he was, but the numbers stack up. I'll try to put something together later arguing for why he was so good. As far as local bias effecting voters, I would vote for Jeter and Rivera 100 times out of 100; Jim Rice's problems getting into the Hall started with local writers not liking him because he was difficult to deal with, but years later they were the ones convincing others to vote for him when he finally got in; Murray Chass of the NYT (I think, could have the wrong guy) cost Pedro the MVP in 1999 when he clearly deserved it by leaving him completely off his ballot "because he didn't believe pitchers should win the MVP" but years later voted for Verlander when he won it.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Uhhhhh remembering that Musial and Williams not at 100% makes me wonder what the hell these people are even doing with a vote. Nobody will ever be there

Willie Mays, either. In fact the idiots that leave people off to make sure nobody gets 100% always site Mays as the reason why.

 

[Irish#1]

I love Maddux, but better pure pitcher than Pedro??? I know you hate the Red Sox, but if you could have one guy at the height of their powers pitch a game to save your life and you picked anyone other than Pedro, you're crazy IMO. Combo of raw stuff and heady pitching that is unmatched. Pedro circa 1999 was That Dude.

I'd take Sandy Koufax over Pedro any day and I'm a Yankee fan. Probably Bob Gibson and Whitey Ford as well.