'13 OH QB Malik Zaire (Notre Dame Early Enrollee)

[NDdomer2]

thats good to hear. did you listen to the teleconference on watchnd though? BK does sound serious. i know you miss out on the non verbals in this scenario, but he did sound like an upset parent.

i haven't listened but figured if Hamilton asked the question then a dead pan answer from BK seems very likely.

 

[Chi_IRISH]

Good to know it was a joke. Didnt mean to stir things up, blame it all on me

 

[IrishBlood81]

Malik and the Redshirt

Malik and the Redshirt

Hey everyone,
Been traveling so much I haven't had much of a chance to be on here. Hope everyone is okay and I'm happy to see the board hasn't crashed after the Pitt and Stanford loses.

And now here I am hoping maybe someone can offer some insight into this subject. I'm quite aware of the whole upside to a redshirt and that most QBs that come in will be redshirted for obvious reasons. But, when Golson got suspended, and Kelly said Rees is the guy, I still just have a hard to justifying throwing away a whole season just to redshirt Malik. Who has a very high probability, IMHO, to transfer if Golson comes back, exceeds as expected and wins the starting job.
When he was recruited, which I followed extremely closely, he was so confident, he had so much fervor for Notre Dame and playing there, his tapes were amazing. I had such high expectations that he may get a shot this year. I realize he didn't have full knowledge of the playbook, he had mono the first two (3?) games of the year..etc but after he was better I don't know why he wasn't given a shot.
The loses we suffered this year were hugely in part to QB play… or lack there of. Of course many things could have changed the outcome but its plain to see that the game was lost by Rees.
2 interceptions to open up against Oklahoma, we lose by two TDs.
Obviously Stanford game two pics in the last 5 mins.
EDIT: Pitt was also lost on two interceptions. (Courtesy of Irish#1)
I guess I also just look at other teams, USC in the past and the other elite teams, that start a true freshman at QB and he does amazing, some mistakes but overall pretty great. And then I look at Rees and he is just absolutely not a QB, he can't run, he's extremely inconsistent, under or overthrows pretty much every pass even competitions and he's just not a D1 quarterback by a long shot, IMHO.
This isn't hate, he's had moments of amazing but..their always overshadowed by tragic mistakes and poor decisions. I like the kid, met him outside the USC/ND game 2012, got a pic with him and everything. I feel for him all the crap he receives but its not his fault he's not a phenomenal QB, he's just not. The thing is he should not be in that position in the first place.

Anyways, just wondered if anyone had any insider insight into to the situation. Did Kelly sit Zaire down and talk to him about redshirting? How disappointed is Malik not to get a shot this last year?
I can only imagine how unbearable it would be, to sit on the sidelines and watch your team lose when you think you could cause them to win.

Recent quotes by Brian Kelly seem to hint that he's trying to get Malik excited about next year that he'll get a real chance to start/play and I think Kelly is also trying to prevent a transfer.
Thanks and lets keep this thing normal and unranty please

take care

Dj

 

[wizards8507]

I think any quarterback who comes in with expectations of seeing significant time as a freshman (redshirt or otherwise) is a bit overly optimistic. As it stands, EG will be back and likely "the guy" for Malik's redshirt Freshman and Sophomore seasons, leaving Malik to be "the guy" for his redshirt Junior and Senior years.

What do you mean when you say "throwing away a whole season"? If you mean that 2013 Malik would have won more games than 2013 Tommy, I think you're way off. Malik has much higher upside, but not as a true freshman. If you mean throwing away an entire season of Malik's, you're actually gaining a year, not losing it. By redshirting him this year, you add some security to your 2017 season.

Malik signed with ND knowing that Golson was the guy. It's not like we had a crappy QB and were desperate for a freshman to come in and save the day. It's not like had already been suspended and Malik recruited under the false premise that he'd contribute right away. I don't have any inside knowledge but I'd be shocked if Malik had not been told throughout his recruitment that he'd be waiting his turn until Golson graduates.

 

[Emcee77]

I think any quarterback who comes in with expectations of seeing significant time as a freshman (redshirt or otherwise) is a bit overly optimistic. As it stands, EG will be back and likely "the guy" for Malik's redshirt Freshman and Sophomore seasons, leaving Malik to be "the guy" for his redshirt Junior and Senior years.

What do you mean when you say "throwing away a whole season"? If you mean that 2013 Malik would have won more games than 2013 Tommy, I think you're way off. Malik has much higher upside, but not as a true freshman. If you mean throwing away an entire season of Malik's, you're actually gaining a year, not losing it. By redshirting him this year, you add some security to your 2017 season.

Right, agreed.

And I'll add that Kelly said outright at a recent media session that he wanted to redshirt Malik. Not sure when the decision was made exactly, but it sounded to me like at some point before the season Kelly decided that he wasn't gonna play Malik unless Tommy and Andrew both got hurt.

 

[#1rish]

Like Wizards said, Malik came here as an early EE, before the whole Golson situation even went down.

I fully expect him to work his hardest and challenge for the starting job, just as Golson did when he was a redshirt freshman. Nothing should be written in stone when it comes to naming our 2014 QB IMO.

 

[Irishnuke]

Hey everyone,
Been traveling so much I haven't had much of a chance to be on here. Hope everyone is okay and I'm happy to see the board hasn't crashed after the Pitt and Stanford loses.

And now here I am hoping maybe someone can offer some insight into this subject. I'm quite aware of the whole upside to a redshirt and that most QBs that come in will be redshirted for obvious reasons. But, when Golson got suspended, and Kelly said Rees is the guy, I still just have a hard to justifying throwing away a whole season just to redshirt Malik. Who has a very high probability, IMHO, to transfer if Golson comes back, exceeds as expected and wins the starting job.
When he was recruited, which I followed extremely closely, he was so confident, he had so much fervor for Notre Dame and playing there, his tapes were amazing. I had such high expectations that he may get a shot this year. I realize he didn't have full knowledge of the playbook, he had mono the first two (3?) games of the year..etc but after he was better I don't know why he wasn't given a shot.
The loses we suffered this year were hugely in part to QB play… or lack there of. Of course many things could have changed the outcome but its plain to see that the game was lost by Rees.
2 interceptions to open up against Oklahoma, we lose by two TDs.
Obviously Stanford game two pics in the last 5 mins.
Pitt wasn't clearly his fault as much, had a lot of chances to win that one but a better QB could have definitely pushed us to a W.
I guess I also just look at other teams, USC in the past and the other elite teams, that start a true freshman at QB and he does amazing, some mistakes but overall pretty great. And then I look at Rees and he is just absolutely not a QB, he can't run, he's extremely inconsistent, under or overthrows pretty much every pass even competitions and he's just not a D1 quarterback by a long shot, IMHO.
This isn't hate, he's had moments of amazing but..their always overshadowed by tragic mistakes and poor decisions. I like the kid, met him outside the USC/ND game 2012, got a pic with him and everything. I feel for him all the crap he receives but its not his fault he's not a phenomenal QB, he's just not. The thing is he should not be in that position in the first place.

Anyways, just wondered if anyone had any insider insight into to the situation. Did Kelly sit Zaire down and talk to him about redshirting? How disappointed is Malik not to get a shot this last year?
I can only imagine how unbearable it would be, to sit on the sidelines and watch your team lose when you think you could cause them to win.

Recent quotes by Brian Kelly seem to hint that he's trying to get Malik excited about next year that he'll get a real chance to start/play and I think Kelly is also trying to prevent a transfer.
Thanks and lets keep this thing normal and unranty please

take care

Dj

So starting Tommy is throwing away the whole season but starting Malik wouldn't have been? And now Malik is going to transfer? Fuck. This. Thread.

 

[irishmarine]

at the very least we have a hell of a Qb battle about to begin come bowl practices with EG (possibly) participating.

 

[Irish#1]

Not wanting to sound like a smart ass, but if you thought Malik had a real shot to play, then I don't think you really understand the huge leap and what it takes to play college ball. When you see a freshmen start at USC, it's because he's surrounded by All Americans that can compensate for some of his inexperience. The complexity of the offense and being able to read defenses are other big factors. When it comes to reads and changing targets, adjusting to the speed of the game may be the single biggest adjustment for the QB.

BTW.....Tommy's two picks is what cost us the Pitt game.

 

[BMT]

Having Malik redshirt was a great idea IMO. Remember mobile QBs are always usually getting injured at least once sometime and now we have 2 mobile QBs plus Kizer who hopefully redshirts as well, you really always want 2 ready to play-see Ohio State this year.

 

[wizards8507]

Not wanting to sound like a smart ass, but if you thought Malik had a real shot to play, then I don't think you really understand the huge leap and what it takes to play college ball. When you see a freshmen start at USC, it's because he's surrounded by All Americans that can compensate for some of his inexperience. The complexity of the offense and being able to read defenses are other big factors. When it comes to reads and changing targets, adjusting to the speed of the game may be the single biggest adjustment for the QB.

BTW.....Tommy's two picks is what cost us the Pitt game.

Especially for a runner. Kelly has said on numerous occasions that Golson didn't have enough "armor" on his body to be a true dual threat with designed runs even after a redshirt season. Hopefully he comes back with a few extra pounds on him next year.

 

[irishmarine]

from eerything ive read he is said to have gained a substantial amount of muscle.

 

[GowerND11]

Let's not forget the illness (mono) Malik had to deal with. What if we burned his redshirt, only for him to play in ~4 games and then out for most of the season because of mono? People would have been calling for Kelly's head: "How can Kelly burn his redshirt and waste his year with Tommy being back?"

 

[wizards8507]

from eerything ive read he is said to have gained a substantial amount of muscle.

EG or Malik?

 

[RyCo1983]

EG or Malik?

EG

 

[RyCo1983]

at the very least we have a hell of a Qb battle about to begin come bowl practices with EG (possibly) participating.

EG, if back, will be running the scout team, helping the seniors prep for their bowl game. The battling won't begin until spring practices.

 

[ulukinatme]

I doubt Zaire is going anywhere. I think he'll compete, probably lose to Golson, and will start his Redshirt Junior/Senior years, maybe Sophomore if Golson were to leave early. I think Golson will play 2 more years though.

 

[IrishBlood81]

I think any quarterback who comes in with expectations of seeing significant time as a freshman (redshirt or otherwise) is a bit overly optimistic. As it stands, EG will be back and likely "the guy" for Malik's redshirt Freshman and Sophomore seasons, leaving Malik to be "the guy" for his redshirt Junior and Senior years.

What do you mean when you say "throwing away a whole season"? If you mean that 2013 Malik would have won more games than 2013 Tommy, I think you're way off. Malik has much higher upside, but not as a true freshman.
Malik signed with ND knowing that Golson was the guy. It's not like we had a crappy QB and were desperate for a freshman to come in and save the day. It's not like had already been suspended and Malik recruited under the false premise that he'd contribute right away. I don't have any inside knowledge but I'd be shocked if Malik had not been told throughout his recruitment that he'd be waiting his turn until Golson graduates.

My main fear, of course is of him transferring. After Gunner Kiel's ordeal, its quite a real fear.

I meant throwing away the 2013 season for the Fighting Irish. A BCS bowl was right in our grasp.

I think Malik actually, naively, thought he could beat out Golson even as a freshmen. An interview I saw during his recruitment made it seem as much. The dude was way confident. Whether or not it was a real option, if it was in his mind, he'd be disappointed nonetheless.

Right, agreed.
And I'll add that Kelly said outright at a recent media session that he wanted to redshirt Malik. Not sure when the decision was made exactly, but it sounded to me like at some point before the season Kelly decided that he wasn't gonna play Malik unless Tommy and Andrew both got hurt.

Thanks for that. If it was fully communicated to Malik of the redshirt then he probably plans to stick around. Unless, in the back of his mind he still thought he would win the starting job.

Like Wizards said, Malik came here as an early EE, before the whole Golson situation even went down.
I fully expect him to work his hardest and challenge for the starting job, just as Golson did when he was a redshirt freshman. Nothing should be written in stone when it comes to naming our 2014 QB IMO.

Yeah, I agree. I really hope Kelly gives him a full shot to win the starting position.

So starting Tommy is throwing away the whole season but starting Malik wouldn't have been? And now Malik is going to transfer?

I love it when the thread is not all that negative and is just a decent debate and then someone comes in and paraphrases only the most dramatic parts from a whole page and starts making it a negative thread.
Its pretty straight up that we could have made a BCS bowl if it hadn't been for Tommy's mistakes. Obviously I have no idea if Malik is what I think he is but I sure think he would've added a ton to our offense. Enough to make it worth wasting a redshirt? I don't know and mostly wasn't.
I said I feared of a transfer if Golson comes back and is really good. Are you totally unaware of Gunner Kiel transferring earlier this year… and many other players as well? 0.o

Not wanting to sound like a smart ass, but if you thought Malik had a real shot to play, then I don't think you really understand the huge leap and what it takes to play college ball. When you see a freshmen start at USC, it's because he's surrounded by All Americans that can compensate for some of his inexperience. The complexity of the offense and being able to read defenses are other big factors. When it comes to reads and changing targets, adjusting to the speed of the game may be the single biggest adjustment for the QB.
BTW.....Tommy's two picks is what cost us the Pitt game.

Yeah, I probably don't realize what it takes. I guess I look at Rees and even as a senior he makes the most basic mistakes so how could Malik be worse. Then again, you see Hendrix and you realize how he could be worse. So, yeah I understand what your saying. Just had bigger hopes for this season and I'm still way frustrated with how it ended.
Fixed ty

Having Malik redshirt was a great idea IMO. Remember mobile QBs are always usually getting injured at least once sometime and now we have 2 mobile QBs plus Kizer who hopefully redshirts as well, you really always want 2 ready to play-see Ohio State this year.

Agreed! Ideal having two great QBs is obviously what any program wants. But it is a very difficult thing to have because good kids want to play and they want to play now. So keeping them is the tuff part.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

My main fear, of course is of him transferring. After Gunner Kiel's ordeal, its quite a real fear.



I think Malik actually, naively, thought he could beat out Golson even as a freshmen. An interview I saw during his recruitment made it seem as much. The dude was way confident. Whether or not it was a real option, if it was in his mind, he'd be disappointed nonetheless.



Thanks for that. If it was fully communicated to Malik of the redshirt then he probably plans to stick around. Unless, in the back of his mind he still thought he would win the starting job.








Yeah, I agree. I really hope Kelly gives him a full shot to win the starting position.



I love it when the thread is not all that negative and is just a decent debate and then someone comes in and paraphrases only the most dramatic parts from a whole page and starts making it a negative thread.
Its pretty straight up that we could have made a BCS bowl if it hadn't been for Tommy's mistakes. Obviously I have no idea if Malik is what I think he is but I sure think he would've added a ton to our offense. Enough to make it worth wasting a redshirt? I don't know and mostly wasn't.
I said I feared of a transfer if Golson comes back and is really good. Are you totally unaware of Gunner Kiel transferring earlier this year… and many other players as well? 0.o



Yeah, I probably don't realize what it takes. I guess I look at Rees and even as a senior he makes the most basic mistakes so how could Malik be worse. Then again, you see Hendrix and you realize how he could be worse. So, yeah I understand what your saying. Just had bigger hopes for this season and I'm still way frustrated with how it ended.
Fixed ty



Agreed! Ideal having two great QBs is obviously what any program wants. But it is a very difficult thing to have because good kids want to play and they want to play now. So keeping them is the tuff part.

I've stated earlier in this thread that I am close with people close to Malik. He was well aware of what he was getting into. First of all a lot of people forget that he's a lefty or fail to understand what that does/means to the offense. EVERYTHING changes. He signed with a realistic idea of playing in 2015. 2015 because he sort of assumed that maybe Golson kicks ass in 2013/2014 and rolls to the pros. If earlier he'd say "hell yeah" but he wants the opportunity to. Compete but is/was well aware of Golson and a guy who takes you to a title game just doesn't get dethroned because a freshman with a ton of potential is on campus. I can say with 100% certainty that Malik would struggled in a huge way in the pocket and would of ran around like a crazy man this year. Not his fault, just his style. Highschool football specific to my parts which is Malik parts is this, there are good qb's on some teams but no one to catch the damn ball or guys that can catch but no one to throw it to. Malik had 1 guy who could catch the rest...option all day.

 

[woolybug25]

Geez... how many people are "close to Malik"? haha.


For realz though. I think that you never know when you will get your opportunity at QB. Shoot, Rees was a 3star kid that was seemingly going to sit behind a 5star stud until he was a senior and then... and only then... would he possibly get to play on this team. Instead... he started games in every season of his career. Playing time at QB is all about taking advantage of opportunity.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Geez... how many people are "close to Malik"? haha.
.

The whole Domsitz family was at my wedding. Ed Domsitz is Alters head coach. I even have Alter
t-shirts. I'm basically awesome! I get free Alter swag. Lol

 

[woolybug25]

The whole Domsitz family was at my wedding. Ed Domsitz is Alters head coach. I even have Alter
t-shirts. I'm basically awesome! I get free Alter swag. Lol

Was jojoblack at your wedding?

 

[Cackalacky]

Geez... how many people are "close to Malik"? haha.


For realz though. I think that you never know when you will get your opportunity at QB. Shoot, Rees was a 3star kid that was seemingly going to sit behind a 5star stud until he was a senior and then... and only then... would he possibly get to play on this team. Instead... he started games in every season of his career. Playing time at QB is all about taking advantage of opportunity.

100% correct. And if the starter starts screwing up you bench him and bring in the next guy. Kelly showed he would do that last year.

 

[Hammer Of The Gods]

Was jojoblack at your wedding?

90% of them belong to the Ohio State cult. So they got all pissy when he didn't show much interest in them. ( I always felt that it was a mutual thing OSU/Malik) Ed is a good guy, hard nosed doesn't mess around. He is vague is hell at times especially during Malik's recurring he wouldn't say much because he knows I'm ND all the way and hate OSU., more so the fans really more than anything

But to answer your question. No, at least I hope not. He struck me as a troll and that family is pretty level headed and all very football savvy unless you talk about their beloved Buckeyes then...well...I'm sure you know how that goes.

 

[Irish8248]

Why would you want Golson and Zaire leave in the same year? ... Dumb ... RS Zaire was the right decision

 

[Bluto]

EG, if back, will be running the scout team, helping the seniors prep for their bowl game. The battling won't begin until spring practices.

He's going to tear the first team db's apart. Haha.

 

[irishmarine]

when i said the battle will begin during bowl games i meant that the coaches will be watching both qbs. if they are both at practce they are both competing for next years job, reguardless of which team they are running with. scout, 3rd,whatever

 

[wizards8507]

My main fear, of course is of him transferring. After Gunner Kiel's ordeal, its quite a real fear.

Kiel had a reasonable belief that he'd be on a level playing field with EG and Tommy going into 2012. He competed, lost, and left. Zaire was recruited under a much different scenario. He committed while EG was the quarterback of a national championship contender who still had three years of eligibility. If he honestly thought he'd compete right away, he's either the most naive kid ever or the coaches are the best liars ever.

I meant throwing away the 2013 season for the Fighting Irish. A BCS bowl was right in our grasp.

No. It wasn't. MAYBE with Golson. Very slim chance with Tommy if everything had gone right. Not with Zaire. Zaire TODAY is worse than Tommy TODAY. Zaire in 2016 should be better than Tommy in 2013, but Tommy in 2013 was the correct choice and we got what we got.

I think Malik actually, naively, thought he could beat out Golson even as a freshmen. An interview I saw during his recruitment made it seem as much. The dude was way confident. Whether or not it was a real option, if it was in his mind, he'd be disappointed nonetheless.

I can't imagine the coaches would have been so unclear in the recruiting process. Maybe, but I just don't see it.

 

[IrishBlood81]

I've stated earlier in this thread that I am close with people close to Malik. He was well aware of what he was getting into. First of all a lot of people forget that he's a lefty or fail to understand what that does/means to the offense. EVERYTHING changes. He signed with a realistic idea of playing in 2015. 2015 because he sort of assumed that maybe Golson kicks ass in 2013/2014 and rolls to the pros. If earlier he'd say "hell yeah" but he wants the opportunity to. Compete but is/was well aware of Golson and a guy who takes you to a title game just doesn't get dethroned because a freshman with a ton of potential is on campus. I can say with 100% certainty that Malik would struggled in a huge way in the pocket and would of ran around like a crazy man this year. Not his fault, just his style. Highschool football specific to my parts which is Malik parts is this, there are good qb's on some teams but no one to catch the damn ball or guys that can catch but no one to throw it to. Malik had 1 guy who could catch the rest...option all day.

Great to hear Hammer. Thank you very much. Nice peace of mind you've given me. Much appreciated mate.

For realz though. I think that you never know when you will get your opportunity at QB. Shoot, Rees was a 3star kid that was seemingly going to sit behind a 5star stud until he was a senior and then... and only then... would he possibly get to play on this team. Instead... he started games in every season of his career. Playing time at QB is all about taking advantage of opportunity.

Very true. Look at Gunner. If he would have stayed around, hard not to think he would have gotten playing time.

Kiel had a reasonable belief that he'd be on a level playing field with EG and Tommy going into 2012. He competed, lost, and left. Zaire was recruited under a much different scenario. He committed while EG was the quarterback of a national championship contender who still had three years of eligibility. If he honestly thought he'd compete right away, he's either the most naive kid ever or the coaches are the best liars ever.

Yes your right on there. Though, I can't imagine Kiel doesn't have a bit of regret with his decision.

No. It wasn't. MAYBE with Golson. Very slim chance with Tommy if everything had gone right. Not with Zaire. Zaire TODAY is worse than Tommy TODAY. Zaire in 2016 should be better than Tommy in 2013, but Tommy in 2013 was the correct choice and we got what we got.

How can you say that? Four less interceptions and we would have been in. The Pitt and Stanford games are all we needed. 5 minutes to play in the end of Stanford, we had the ball twice with possible game tying and then game winning drives. Both ended with interceptions.
Similar story with Pitt. Golson took us to an undefeated season last year, are you saying this years schedule was more difficult? I'm aware our defense was nowhere near last years power house but still, they did not lose us those games.

I can't imagine the coaches would have been so unclear in the recruiting process. Maybe, but I just don't see it.

Great. Thats all I was concerned about. As long as he was aware of the situation we cool. Sucks to have had such a season as this on though… especially after last year.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Frustrated</p>— ♏️ALIK ƵAIRE (@LuckyLefty8) <a href="https://twitter.com/LuckyLefty8/statuses/407929141615276032">December 3, 2013</a></blockquote>
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