Manning better than Brady?

[woolybug25]

Yep

Why did I think you were 18 or something? Crazy.

 

[irishfan]

Their stats are virtually identical. For every pro-Manning stat, you can find an equally impressive pro-Brady one.

For QBs with equal stats, you got to go wins. Brady is 10-4 against Manning. 3 rings. Easy call IMO.

 

[palinurus]

I don't mean this as an insult, so don't take it that way. But you're pretty young, right?

I'm just assuming that you never got to see Joe Montana in his prime or Dan Marino, etc?

It's interesting how different generations see the Mt Rushmore of NFL QB's.

True. It is virtually impossible to compare QBs across eras. If you go by stats, it's pure folly, because the rules were drastically different in the 1960s than in the 1980s, and drastically different now. And the game and game plans were much different pre 1970 than now. Not taking anything away from these guys; they're really good, but judging a passer or receiver in the pre-bump and run/pre-pass blocking rule change/pre hits on the QB/pre-anti-clothesline/pre-hits on WR is totally different than judging guys in a wide open/protecting the QB/WR era.

That's not a pejorative judgement on those rules; it's a fact of how those rules change offensive productivity. Would great players then be great now? Depends. But I bet Johnny Unitas throwing in a world where he has more time and doesn't have to worry about getting blasted in the head a second or two after the pass, throwing to a Raymond Berry who doesn't get touched more than five yards downfield, has dramatically higher numbers than he does in the record book right now.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

There has never been a good QB before.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

I don't understand system quarterback . I'm a homer huge I admit but if Brady is a system quarterback then why isn't every one in that system ? Honestly his winning percentage is just incredible and if the NFL is copy cat league which it is then why aren't there 30 Brady's . I think the main reason I pick Brady over Manning is Brady is effective in any conditions snow ,rain, cold, indoor or outdoor . Manning is great I fully admit but outdoors in January is where the most important football is usually played and if your that's where your the least effective then your not the best . That and I'm a huge homer.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't understand system quarterback . I'm a homer huge I admit but if Brady is a system quarterback then why isn't every one in that system ? Honestly his winning percentage is just incredible and if the NFL is copy cat league which it is then why aren't there 30 Brady's . I think the main reason I pick Brady over Manning is Brady is effective in any conditions snow ,rain, cold, indoor or outdoor . Manning is great I fully admit but outdoors in January is where the most important football is usually played and if your that's where your the least effective then your not the best . That and I'm a huge homer.

I keep hearing this argument, but Peyton won a Super Bowl in the pouring rain in January. He played 15 of his games last year outside and 9 games this season outside. These are two of his best seasons of his career. The argument just doesn't make sense to me.

Also... isn't "PatsandBostonfan" kinda redundant? jk... kinda

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

He won in the rain in January that's true .It could also be said that it was 67 degrees Florida rain not frozen rain. He also played one road game in that playoff's which 63 degree day in Baltimore . I also had to look all that stuff up because I am way to much of a homer to let this point sit .

 

[woolybug25]

He's won several games just this season in cold weather.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'll take Manning without thinking twice, best QB I've ever seen.

 

[Ndaccountant]

He's won several games just this season in cold weather.

Just asking, but is it cold weather or wind or both? I have never been too impressed with Manning's velocity or overall arm strength, but his IQ and ball placement are top notch. I seem to think his lack of zip (which is getting worse due to age) has more to do with his performances than anything else, when all else is close to equal.

 

[woolybug25]

Just asking, but is it cold weather or wind or both? I have never been too impressed with Manning's velocity or overall arm strength, but his IQ and ball placement are top notch. I seem to think his lack of zip (which is getting worse due to age) has more to do with his performances than anything else, when all else is close to equal.

Both. Denver is extremely windy and a couple of his games this season have been unseasonably cold.

I would agree with the arm strength comment. That being said, I don't think Brady has a rocket either. In fact, a lot of great QB's lacked in this department. Seems now more than ever, its about above the shoulders.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

He's won several games just this season in cold weather.

He has won several cold weather regular season games I agree . Beating elite teams in cold is what makes a great playoff quarterback . If your not great playoff quarterback your not greatest ever i'm sorry .

 

[woolybug25]

He has won several cold weather regular season games I agree . Beating elite teams in cold is what makes a great playoff quarterback . If your not great playoff quarterback your not greatest ever i'm sorry .

The same could be said about Brady against physical defenses. If you look at most of the losses he has had, they are usually coming from teams that play a physical brand of defense. This has been an ongoing problem his entire career.

Now, he has beat teams with physical defenses, but Manning has beat teams in cold weather. So what have we really learned here?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Both. Denver is extremely windy and a couple of his games this season have been unseasonably cold.

I would agree with the arm strength comment. That being said, I don't think Brady has a rocket either. In fact, a lot of great QB's lacked in this department. Seems now more than ever, its about above the shoulders.

I support that 100%.

I guess I just look at last night as a microcosm of Brady versus Manning. Over the years, I have thought that the front office for the Pats know how to build a team to win in Jan, especially in New England. Last night was no different and when you compare to Manning's teams with the Colts, they were many steps behind. Denver is a different story and I think last night was just a really strange game from the kickoff. I am not putting too much into that game.

I personally like Manning more than Brady, but the results speak for themselves, even though most of the head to head match-ups have occurred in New England.

 

[anarin]

I don't understand system quarterback .

How has Matt Cassel done since he left New England?

I'm a huge homer

And this is why people like me cannot have a serious debate with someone like you. Patriots fans and Steelers fans are the worst at any sort of serious debate when it involves their teams.

 

[irishfan]

I keep hearing this argument, but Peyton won a Super Bowl in the pouring rain in January. He played 15 of his games last year outside and 9 games this season outside. These are two of his best seasons of his career. The argument just doesn't make sense to me.

Also... isn't "PatsandBostonfan" kinda redundant? jk... kinda

Since 2003, he is 23-5 in games played when it is freezing, while Manning is 1-6.

Can Peyton Manning consistently play well in cold weather? - NFL.com

Freezing temperature doesn't come around often, no doubt, but you're likely to run into it come playoff time unless you play in the confines of a dome (another knock on Peyton obviously from his Colts days) or are a warm-weather team with home field advantage.

 

[Rhode Irish]

This argument goes from fun to dumb when you start devaluing how good either guy has been. The thing that makes it a fun debate is it is one of those impossible questions. There is no "right" answer, just opinions of people with different biases and criteria and ideas about what makes someone "great."

 

[irishfan]

Mentioned this earlier, but for every pro-Manning argument or stat, there's an equally impressive pro-Brady one. Manning has better completion percentage or more yards? Well, Brady has a much higher TD/INT ratio. Brady is a system QB? Well, Manning has consistently had better weapons around him througout his career.

Stats are too close. Comes down to wins and rings. Brady's got Manning crushed there.

 

[anarin]

Mentioned this earlier, but for every pro-Manning argument or stat, there's an equally impressive pro-Brady one. Manning has better completion percentage or more yards? Well, Brady has a much higher TD/INT ratio. Brady is a system QB? Well, Manning has consistently had better weapons around him througout his career.

Stats are too close. Comes down to wins and rings. Brady's got Manning crushed there.

Rings are overvalued for players. Everyone knows that the NFL is the ultimate team sport and coaching is what puts you into contender or pretender status. If you went by ring status you would consider Dilfer a good QB.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

How has Matt Cassel done since he left New England?



And this is why people like me cannot have a serious debate with someone like you. Patriots fans and Steelers fans are the worst at any sort of serious debate when it involves their teams.

Tom Brady same team as Cassel Tom Brady (2007): 398 of 578 for 4,806 yards, 50 touchdowns and eight interceptions.

Quarterback Rating: 117.2. Made it to Superbowl lost closing seconds .


Matt Cassel 327 of 516 for 3,693 yards, 21 touchdowns and 11 interceptions and didn't make playoff's . No difference your right .

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I keep hearing this argument, but Peyton won a Super Bowl in the pouring rain in January. He played 15 of his games last year outside and 9 games this season outside. These are two of his best seasons of his career. The argument just doesn't make sense to me.

Also... isn't "PatsandBostonfan" kinda redundant? jk... kinda

To be fair, Rex Grossman.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

and I quoted wrong guy .... Point is Valid though .

 

[BobD]

There are lots of great quarterbacks. All we can do is pick our favorites.

There are folks who think Eli Manning is great. He even has more rings than his brother. I personally think he's a luck box.....how did the ball stick to that helmet?

Then there's poor old Jim Kelly.....what was that, 4 consecutive super bowls with no wins? How many rings does Marino have?

 

[NDBoiler]

Football is a team sport.

This is the key of this whole debate IMO. Manning had steaming piles of crap for a defense (and running game for that matter) for many years in Indy, and Brady accompanied arguably dominant defenses to 3 Super Bowl wins. Give Manning the same defense in Indy as Brady had, and I'd argue you'd see Manning with 3 Super Bowl wins too, if not more.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

This is the key of this whole debate IMO. Manning had steaming piles of crap for a defense (and running game for that matter) for many years in Indy, and Brady accompanied arguably dominant defenses to 3 Super Bowl wins. Give Manning the same defense in Indy as Brady had, and I'd argue you'd see Manning with 3 Super Bowl wins too, if not more.

Freeney and Sanders weren't exactly crap and James was better than average running back . Brady also had no one to really throw to then either .

 

[ACamp1900]

This is the key of this whole debate IMO. Manning had steaming piles of crap for a defense (and running game for that matter) for many years in Indy, and Brady accompanied arguably dominant defenses to 3 Super Bowl wins. Give Manning the same defense in Indy as Brady had, and I'd argue you'd see Manning with 3 Super Bowl wins too, if not more.

I agree... thing is it doesn't matter, Marino is clearly one of the best QBs to ever live, the guy's teams made it to one SB and got boat raced by the 49ers... does that make Montana better than Marino??? Well Montana may have been better, but how his team did against the fin's defense had nothing to do with it... just my opinon

 

[NDBoiler]

Freeney and Sanders weren't exactly crap and James was better than average running back . Brady also had no one to really throw to then either .

While being an awesome pass rusher in his prime, Freeney is completely one dimensional though and totally non-existent against the run, often taking himself way out of plays where teams would pick up on it and use his over pursuit against him. Bob Sanders played about 2 games without being injured. I think he once pulled a groin sneezing or something. Possibly one of the biggest defensive busts of all time after being a DPOY early in his career (in a season he participated in 12 games, the most of his career). James' prime doesn't quite correspond with Manning's either, he was gone from Indy after 2005 season I believe. The year the Colts played in the Super Bowl against New Orleans (2008 or 2009, can;t remember, they were DFL/DFL -1 respectively in team rushing.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

This is the key of this whole debate IMO. Manning had steaming piles of crap for a defense (and running game for that matter) for many years in Indy, and Brady accompanied arguably dominant defenses to 3 Super Bowl wins. Give Manning the same defense in Indy as Brady had, and I'd argue you'd see Manning with 3 Super Bowl wins too, if not more.

I'd say you can argue that Manning has had more offensive weapons. Corey Dillon late in his career, Antoine Smith, and Kevin Faulk were their (EDIT: The Patriots) feature backs. Not elite by any means. I'd take Edgerrin James.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

While being an awesome pass rusher in his prime, Freeney is completely one dimensional though and totally non-existent against the run, often taking himself way out of plays where teams would pick up on it and use his over pursuit against him. Bob Sanders played about 2 games without being injured. I think he once pulled a groin sneezing or something. Possibly one of the biggest defensive busts of all time after being a DPOY early in his career (in a season he participated in 12 games, the most of his career).

Your right but when he played he was such a game changer loved that guy.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

He's won several games just this season in cold weather.

Where and when? He has struggled mightily in sub 30 degree games throughout his career. He's had some good weather games in Denver this year to play in. Last night he was downright pedestrian (I know it was only 1 game), but he has a history of poor play outdoors in cold temps. He also has a history of early playoff exits as a top seed which doesn't usually make for a good argument when trying to assert career greatness and I respect the hell out of him and all that he has done.