'11 SC QB Everett Golson (FSU transfer)

[Irish Insanity]

Not enough for me to bank my life on, but one of my best friends' mom is in admissions, and she said they've known this was coming since Golson left and wouldn't have put him through all this if he wasn't going to be let back in.

Edit: this assumes nothing surfaces about legal/NCAA/eligibility issues popping up during his absence.

Thanks for the info

 

[dshans]

As is the case in all things, we shall see, we shall see. We have scant "evidence" of the exact nature of his transgression, as it should be. We also have no inside information on the thinking of those deciding his re-admission academically.

I more than understand and appreciate the calls for his continued role as an ND student based on his contrition and stated ambition to "do better" and live up to standards expected of him, but I find it repulsive that some call for his re-instatement simply because he has value as a gifted athlete within the football program.

Reference "the early days" and "hired" players (say Paul Hornung, for example) but the school and its athletic programs have evolved.

 

[ResLife Hero]

As is the case in all things, we shall see, we shall see. We have scant "evidence" of the exact nature of his transgression, as it should be. We also have no inside information on the thinking of those deciding his re-admission academically.

I more than understand and appreciate the calls for his continued role as an ND student based on his contrition and stated ambition to "do better" and live up to standards expected of him, but I find it repulsive that some call for his re-instatement simply because he has value as a gifted athlete within the football program.

Reference "the early days" and "hired" players (say Paul Hornung, for example) but the school and its athletic programs have evolved.

"The process acknowledges, but does not focus on his football accomplishments" was how it was put to me.

I agree that we don't want to lose sight of academic goals, but how many schools would have booted a starting QB who went to the NCG for cheating in the first place?

 

[dshans]

I agree that we don't want to lose sight of academic goals, but how many schools would have booted a starting QB who went to the NCG for cheating in the first place?

Truth be told: I don't give a flying ****. Consideration should be given, as it should be, to applicants that bring something to the mix outside of SAT/ACT or GPA numbers. When a student, be they an invisible "nerd" or a highly touted athlete run afoul of the academic rules, they should both be subject to the same scrutiny.

I'm not talking about "social" rules that address alcohol or marijuana (etc.) use. Those are selective and fluid to an extent. My arse would have been planted on US 31, thumb out, headed south to Florida. My guess is that good old Mom and Dad would not have welcomed me with open arms. Had I fugged up by cheating in my studies, I would have headed west or north ... anything but home.

Everett deserves a chance,no doubt, but not simply because he's a (maybe, maybe not) a damn good football quarterback.

 

[ResLife Hero]

Truth be told: I don't give a flying ****. Consideration should be given, as it should be, to applicants that bring something to the mix outside of SAT/ACT or GPA numbers. When a student, be they an invisible "nerd" or a highly touted athlete run afoul of the academic rules, they should both be subject to the same scrutiny.

I'm no talking about "social" rules that address alcohol or marijuana (etc.) use. Those are selective and fluid to an extent. My arse would have been planted on US 31, thumb out, headed south to Florida. My guess is that good old Mom and Dad would not have welcomed me with open arms. Had I fugged up by cheating in my studies, I would have headed west or north ... anything but home.

Everett deserves a chance,no doubt, but not simply because he's a (maybe, maybe not) a damn good football quarterback.

Totally agree. I've just been rubbed a bit raw by my Aggie friends who keep saying "who cares if he goes to school?" about Manziel and having to compare that to ND's course of action. I'd honestly be pissed if my degree was in any way cheapened by our pursuit of football glory. I just think we're unique in our handling of football players.

 

[chubler]

I'm gonna say something controversial:

What differentiates outstanding musical talent, or outstanding artistic talent, from outstanding athletic talent? All three are reasons admissions offices both at ND and around the country admit students who otherwise wouldn't cut it academically.

So, why is the ability to play a french horn exceptionally well or to paint a beautiful picture considered academically superior to the ability to throw a football and run really fast? Being a quarterback requires at least as much dedication, practice, and attention to detail as painting or music. So why is it considered "selling out" if you admit a questionable quarterback, but not if you admit a questionable painter?

Just something to ponder.

 

[kmoose]

I just don't understand what about ND's admissions history makes everyone feel so warm and fuzzy about his readmittance. I'm cautiously optimistic at best.

Golson was suspended, not expelled. That, to me, indicates that they will allow him to come back, provided that he does not have any problems during his suspension.

 

[Irish#1]

We'll see EG on the field this spring and I bet you won't hear another thing about EG and academic fraud or cheating.

 

[dshans]

I'm gonna say something controversial:

What differentiates outstanding musical talent, or outstanding artistic talent, from outstanding athletic talent? All three are reasons admissions offices both at ND and around the country admit students who otherwise wouldn't cut it academically.

So, why is the ability to play a french horn exceptionally well or to paint a beautiful picture considered academically superior to the ability to throw a football and run really fast? Being a quarterback requires at least as much dedication, practice, and attention to detail as painting or music. So why is it considered "selling out" if you admit a questionable quarterback, but not if you admit a questionable painter?

Just something to ponder.

Good point, and well taken. It's a wide, wide world and test scores shouldn't be the ultimate arbiter. Notre Dame would be a poorer place; a boring, stagnant place without a healthy mix of personalities and dreams, whatever the form. It is, after all, a place and a time to dispense, distill and disperse many diverse "liberal" arts.

A recognition of athletic ability should be the equivalent to musicianship (often equated with mathematics) brush stroke, an ability to write, stage, light and "sell" a scene assuming a level of disbelief. The same is true for those in management, economics and any of the many sciences.

My point is simply this: a level "playing field."

 

[chubler]

Good point, and well taken. It's a wide, wide world and test scores shouldn't be the ultimate arbiter. Notre Dame would be a poorer place; a boring, stagnant place without a healthy mix of personalities and dreams, whatever the form. It is, after all, a place and a time to dispense, distill and disperse many diverse "liberal" arts.

A recognition of athletic ability should be the equivalent to musicianship (often equated mathematics) brush stroke, an ability to write, stage, light and "sell" a scene assuming a level of disbelief. The same is true for those in management, economics and any of the many sciences.

My point is simply this: a level "playing field."

I agree on that front. IMO Everett has fully demonstrated, at least in public, the "conversion" or change that I imagine is required of any student reapplying after a suspension for academic dishonesty. If you replace Everett with a hypothetical business student who received the same suspension and handled it in the same way, I can see no reason he wouldn't be readmitted.

Regardless, I wish ND admissions thought about athletic talent the same way you do. It seems to me that a football prospect, given the exceptional nature of his talent, should be evaluated mostly on the basis of his potential for success in the classroom once he arrives at the University. He doesn't need to be compared academically to the rest of the student body because he has distinguished himself by a special talent, and assuming he has met some baseline of sufficient academic rigor in high school, I see no reason he should have to "measure up" academically to nerds like myself who were studying while he was practicing. Same goes for an exceptional opera singer- If he can succeed here, and meets the baseline, why hold him to the same standard as the tone-deaf?

 

[irishpat183]

He throws a great spiral and can move in the pocket.

Let him in. I want to win games. And football, believe it or not, pays the bills for those band members and artists.


Admissions, step aside. Let the money maker through.

 

[chubler]

He throws a great spiral and can move in the pocket.

Let him in. I want to win games. And football, believe it or not, pays the bills for those band members and artists.


Admissions, step aside. Let the money maker through.

Theres the point I was looking for last night and couldn't quite come up with. The guy has proven he'll be successful in the classroom. Not letting him in simply because his special skill has an actual market value isn't academically rigorous or commendable, it's just contrarian.

That goes for any other athlete who can prove their ability to succeed in the classroom as well.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

He's getting back in right ? Maybe it was the kool-aid but I thought this was a forgone conclusion.

 

[Emcee77]

He's getting back in right ? Maybe it was the kool-aid but I thought this was a forgone conclusion.

You're right, re-applying is a formality.

I cannot recall a player serving one of these one-semester suspensions and then not being re-admitted. (Incidentially, it would hurt our graduation rate not to re-admit him, wouldn't it?) I see no chance of that happening.

 

[PatsandBostonfan1975]

I hope so a part me is getting scared that admissions might want to make a example . I really respect the route he took to get back I hope so do they .

 

[chubler]

I hope so a part me is getting scared that admissions might want to make a example . I really respect the route he took to get back I hope so do they .

I'm pretty sure the people who tell admissions what to do know exactly how disastrous that would be for the program and the university, and have no intention of allowing that to happen.

 

[ThePiombino]

He's getting back in right ? Maybe it was the kool-aid but I thought this was a forgone conclusion.

Nothing is a foregone conclusion when it comes to ND admissions. It's likely, but not set in stone by any means.

 

[IrishFan4L]

When or if he returns will he have lost a year of elgibility?

 

[irishog77]

When or if he returns will he have lost a year of elgibility?

Yes.

 

[GoIrish41]

Yes.

Really? Why is that?

 

[ThePiombino]

Really? Why is that?

Because a player has 5 years to play 4 once he steps foot on campus. EG's counter started ticking down in 2011. His eligibility is as follows:

Yr1: 2011 RS
Yr2: 2012 RS Fr (played)
Yr3: 2013 RS So (ineligible)
Yr4: 2014 RS Jr (TBD)
Yr5: 2015 RS Sr (TBD)

 

[GoIrish41]

Because a player has 5 years to play 4 once he steps foot on campus. EG's counter started ticking down in 2011. His eligibility is as follows:

Yr1: 2011 RS
Yr2: 2012 RS Fr (played)
Yr3: 2013 RS So (ineligible)
Yr4: 2014 RS Jr (TBD)
Yr5: 2015 RS Sr (TBD)

Thanks. Did not realize this.

 

[clashmore_jon]

sorry if this is common knowledge to people---but any chance golson would get any playing time in a bowl game? would it matter if it's Jan 1 vs. late December?

I feel like he'd be way too out of synch to run the whole show, but maybe in an emergency or in a changeup role? edit: or after we've blown the other team out of the water

 

[BGIF]

sorry if this is common knowledge to people---but any chance golson would get any playing time in a bowl game? would it matter if it's Jan 1 vs. late December?

I feel like he'd be way too out of synch to run the whole show, but maybe in an emergency or in a changeup role? edit: or after we've blown the other team out of the water

No chance. He's ineligible for a bowl per NCAA rules. Can't play in a bowl unless you were in school for the season and academically eligible for the bowel.

NCAA rules will allow him to practice if readmitted but he can not participate in a game until next Fall.

 

[Luckylucci]

sorry if this is common knowledge to people---but any chance golson would get any playing time in a bowl game? would it matter if it's Jan 1 vs. late December?

I feel like he'd be way too out of synch to run the whole show, but maybe in an emergency or in a changeup role? edit: or after we've blown the other team out of the water

Can't play, only practice.

 

[clashmore_jon]

No chance. He's ineligible for a bowl. Can't play in a bowl unless you were in school for the season and academically eligible for the bowel.

figured there must be a rule like that. thanks. (bowel, lol)

 

[ulukinatme]

I honestly wouldn't want to play EG if he was eligible just for the bowl. As painful as it is for some people to watch Tommy behind center, the guy earned the chance to lead the team in one more bowl game. I think it would be a slap in the face to all the kids that were eligible this year and did things the right way if EG came in just for the bowl game, he didn't earn that. If the defense is healthy, and given the fact we're not going to be in a BCS game, I like our chances against whoever we'll face in a bowl from this point forward with Tommy as QB.

 

[ndfi78]

I honestly wouldn't want to play EG if he was eligible just for the bowl. As painful as it is for some people to watch Tommy behind center, the guy earned the chance to lead the team in one more bowl game. I think it would be a slap in the face to all the kids that were eligible this year and did things the right way if EG came in just for the bowl game, he didn't earn that. If the defense is healthy, and given the fact we're not going to be in a BCS game, I like our chances against whoever we'll face in a bowl from this point forward with Tommy as QB.

I could not agree more. It would be so disrespectful to Tommy if EG played in the bowl game, thankfully it cannot happen

 

[BGIF]

figured there must be a rule like that. thanks. (bowel, lol)

Perhaps a Freudian Slip over the quality of the bowl.

 

[jojoblack]

Theres the point I was looking for last night and couldn't quite come up with. The guy has proven he'll be successful in the classroom. Not letting him in simply because his special skill has an actual market value isn't academically rigorous or commendable, it's just contrarian.

That goes for any other athlete who can prove their ability to succeed in the classroom as well.

He should not be allowed to be re-admitted especially because he plays sports. The bottom line is The Notre Dame is an fine Academic Institution of Higher Education and its principals of leadership for the world should not be undermine because of a kid can throw a nice spiral. Shame on the university for being a hypocrite if they let him back in. It is a privilege to attend and then to play for the University. Not a right! "Come On Man"