ND Oversold on Kelly?

[wizards8507]

Weis' teams would have gotten blown out by ASU and USC. Kelly's team won both of those games.

So we're supposed to be happy because we're a tad bit better than the suckiest we've been EVER?

 

[m-araim]

Bid BK put his signature on the contract

 

[Wild Bill]

So we're supposed to be happy because we're a tad bit better than the suckiest we've been EVER?

IMO, we're more than a tad bit better. We're fundamentally a different team. Kelly's teams are mentally tough and we expect them to win close games. Weis teams were mentally weak and we knew they would lose the close games.

I think that's why this game stings so bad. We are used to a Kelly coached team winning this type of game.

I'm not a Kelly apologist, just my honest opinion.

 

[Cali_domer]

NCAA rankings

Scoring offense
2010: 67th
2011: 49th
2012: 78th
2013: 71st

Total offense
2010: 61st
2011: 35th
2012: 54th
2013: 68th

Red Zone Offense

2010: 49th
2011: 88th
2012: 70th
2013: 105th

This sucks...

82nd in turnover margin

64th in third down defense

105th in red zone offense

65th in penalties

117 in kickoff coverage

106th in first down defense

100th in time of possession

This blows....

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Smh...this team is one year removed from an undefeated regular season and trip to the national championship game and people are seriously comparing BK to Weis? C'mon.

 

[CarrollVermin]

Smh...this team is one year removed from an undefeated regular season and trip to the national championship game and people are seriously comparing BK to Weis? C'mon.

It is not a comparison, but you can't give Kelly a pass for taking a team to the NCG. Heck, Chizik took a team and won one with a special player. Then look at what he followed it up with. If you don't have accountability in your program, and ask tough questions, then how do you continue to evolve? This team has underachieved, and has not gotten better as the season has continued. All teams deal with injuries, and I understand that to be a part of it...and I understand the schedule and player development argument...but you can't sit there and say that you are satisfied with where we are right now. If you are, then I guess you are willing to accept being an average program (not you personally,but in general).

 

[Rudy89]

Smh...this team is one year removed from an undefeated regular season and trip to the national championship game and people are seriously comparing BK to Weis? C'mon.

Because we are looking at a team that may very well finish the season one game over .500 that last year was one game away from being undefeated last year. Not quite as big of a drop from 10-3 to 3-9 like Weis had but it's a major dropoff that we have to have concern over but like I said earlier that might just be what the Irish are destined to be no elite team gets upset by awful football teams as much as we have over the last 5 years be it home or away we cannot let garbage play with us unless we are content with being a middle of the pack team and I like Kelly but this has to change.

 

[ACamp1900]

In fairness Weis was one Bush Push away from a title shot also... Just saying

 

[Rocket89]

In fairness Weis was one Bush Push away from a title shot also... Just saying

If only he hadn't of lost to an (eventual) 6-loss Michigan State team a couple weeks before.

 

[gkIrish]

NCAA rankings

Scoring offense
2010: 67th
2011: 49th
2012: 78th
2013: 71st

Total offense
2010: 61st
2011: 35th
2012: 54th
2013: 68th

Red Zone Offense

2010: 49th
2011: 88th
2012: 70th
2013: 105th

This sucks...

82nd in turnover margin

64th in third down defense

105th in red zone offense

65th in penalties

117 in kickoff coverage

106th in first down defense

100th in time of possession

This blows....

 

[irishpat183]

Weis' teams would have gotten blown out by ASU and USC. Kelly's team won both of those games.

Come on....How can you make that statement? We can't possibly know that.

I don't think Kelly is really any better. It's obvious he has the same depth problems that Weis had.

Granted, D is better...but Offense, we're not.

 

[Wild Bill]

It is not a comparison, but you can't give Kelly a pass for taking a team to the NCG. Heck, Chizik took a team and won one with a special player. Then look at what he followed it up with. If you don't have accountability in your program, and ask tough questions, then how do you continue to evolve? This team has underachieved, and has not gotten better as the season has continued. All teams deal with injuries, and I understand that to be a part of it...and I understand the schedule and player development argument...but you can't sit there and say that you are satisfied with where we are right now. If you are, then I guess you are willing to accept being an average program (not you personally,but in general).

Has it? I mean, without Golson, I thought this team would win about 8 or 9 games. With Golson we'd be a one loss team, IMO. Take away the starting QB on any team in the top 25 and I believe they'd be in a similar situation.

 

[ACamp1900]

The offense has definitely taken steps back while the defense has clearly taken leaps forward... Weis consistently had elite offenses, but every other game was a shoot out...

 

[irishpat183]

In fairness Weis was one Bush Push away from a title shot also... Just saying

Exactly

If only he hadn't of lost to an (eventual) 6-loss Michigan State team a couple weeks before.

Still a better team than the PITT team we lost too last night...And Kelly was one play away from losing to a few teams last year.

Kelly is just luckier than Weis. That is all.

 

[Wild Bill]

Exactly




Still a better team than the PITT team we lost too last night...And Kelly was one play away from losing to a few teams last year.

Kelly is just luckier than Weis. That is all.

Luck favors the prepared.

 

[irishpat183]

Has it? I mean, without Golson, I thought this team would win about 8 or 9 games. With Golson we'd be a one loss team, IMO. Take away the starting QB on any team in the top 25 and I believe they'd be in a similar situation.

I wouldn't call it "underacheiving" I'd call it that we had too high of expectations.

Coming into this year, we should've seen the drop off on D coming. And once we lost EG, the season was a bust.

 

[irishpat183]

Luck favors the prepared.

Nice quote...but it doesn't apply.

That PITT game last year? Where we actually shoud've been flagged for two men wearing the same number? That's not "prepared"

 

[Rocket89]

Kelly is just luckier than Weis. That is all.

Oh, that's it?

 

[woolybug25]

Kelly is just luckier than Weis. That is all.

I guess that explains why BK has been a consistently good college coach for over 20 years, while Weis has stunk up his entire short college career. But yes... luck is all that seperates them.

You guys are a trip. Especially you, Pat. There is no more consistent poster on this board. If there is a negative, divisive, hatred-filled or insensitive opinion to have... it is surely one of yours...

 

[Wild Bill]

Nice quote...but it doesn't apply.

That PITT game last year? Where we actually shoud've been flagged for two men wearing the same number? That's not "prepared"

If Weis was coaching for us during that same Pitt game we wouldn't have seen overtime. The team would have quit and Pitt would have stomped us.

 

[ACamp1900]

Kelly is just luckier than Weis. That is all.

I don't know about that either... I believe the program is stronger now... But I don't feel its clear night and day as has been implied, still think there is a ways to go... I'd be interested to see stat comparisons of Weis and Kelly at ND... Ill bet the numbers are similar enough...

With that said this was the first hire since Holtz that clearly moved ND in the right direction IMO...

 

[Rocket89]

The program is much stronger right now than under Weis. If you really don't think so I don't know what to tell you.

I think a lot of folks are just upset that we're not elite yet. That's an entirely different argument.

Here's something to think about with Weis:

HE NEVER BEAT RANKED TEAMS.

 

[irishpat183]

I guess that explains why BK has been a consistently good college coach for over 20 years, while Weis has stunk up his entire short college career. But yes... luck is all that seperates them.

You guys are a trip. Especially you, Pat. There is no more consistent poster on this board. If there is a negative, divisive, hatred-filled or insensitive opinion to have... it is surely one of yours...

I'm not saying that Weis is a "better" coach...but you can't deny (unless you're just lost) that Kelly had more than a couple things go his way last year...

We were lucky last year. Not a bad thing. Kelly didn't run on the ffield and push that FG to the right.

If Weis was coaching for us during that same Pitt game we wouldn't have seen overtime. The team would have quit and Pitt would have stomped us.

Again....I can't possibly respond to those kinds of things. Just like Weis's team "quit" against USC in the Bush push game?

I'm not buying it.

I don't know about that either... I believe the program is stronger now... But I don't feel its clear night and day as has been implied, still think there is a ways to go... I'd be interested to see stat comparisons of Weis and Kelly at ND... Ill bet the numbers are similar enough...

With that said this was the first hire since Holtz that clearly moved ND in the right direction IMO...

So do I. But that doesn't mean Kelly is just head and shoulders above any other guy. HOw many BCS wins does Kelly have?

Are we just "better" because we had a great year last year? I mean....what the hell is soo much better?


We're about to have a 8-4, 7-5 season and play in the "whogivesashit.com" bowl.

 

[gkIrish]

IMO there is no debate. BK needs to do better. However, BK>>>>Weis.

I was at ND from 2006-2010. We lost to Navy AT HOME twice. We went 3-9 one year. 6-6 TWO other seasons. Got DESTROYED in a BCS game against a team not named Alabama. NO PLAYER DEVELOPMENT.

There is no rational comparison to be made between the two.

 

[irishpat183]

I'm just questioning all these blind Kelly fans, I'm not saying that Weis is a better coach. He clearly has a disconnect with college players.


Kelly hasn't won jack. Neither did Weis. At the end of the day, I'm still waiting for that BCS win or ring

 

[CarrollVermin]

Has it? I mean, without Golson, I thought this team would win about 8 or 9 games. With Golson we'd be a one loss team, IMO. Take away the starting QB on any team in the top 25 and I believe they'd be in a similar situation.

I think this team was better than OU and certainly Michigan. Right now could realistically be sitting here with one loss.

 

[CarrollVermin]

I think the perception shared by Pat is the same for a lot of fans. Personally, I can see how the offseason disasters led to where we are, but I expected the "Next Man In" mentality to show itself, especially given recent recruiting. There is no reason to be sitting here with 3 losses right now. At most, we should have the OU loss, and be preparing for the last two games and a possible BCS game. That is a sign of inconsistent leadership.

 

[Wild Bill]

Again....I can't possibly respond to those kinds of things. Just like Weis's team "quit" against USC in the Bush push game?

I'm not buying it.

I used the same eyeball test you used to assess our run game.

 

[gkIrish]

I'm just questioning all these blind Kelly fans, I'm not saying that Weis is a better coach. He clearly has a disconnect with college players.


Kelly hasn't won jack. Neither did Weis. At the end of the day, I'm still waiting for that BCS win or ring

Kelly went 12-0 and if OSU hadn't made a terrible decision, he would have won a national championship. We have had a really tough season injury-wise (Weis never had to deal with this many injuries) and lost our QB. If the timing was better with EG, Kiel wouldn't have transferred either, so spare me the lack of backup QB argument.

For me, Kelly gets another season. If we don't go at least 10-3 next year, I'll call for his head.

 

[Bluto]

I think this team was better than OU and certainly Michigan. Right now could realistically be sitting here with one loss.

On paper yes. On game day not so much. That is the most frustrating thing about watching this team and the 2011 team for that matter. Bonehead plays, lack of execution and turnovers cost this team and the 2011 team games that they could have won (in the case of Pitt easily) which in some ways speaks to Irish Pat's point.

In other news, hell just froze over...lol.