Jonathan Martin-Richie Incognito

[irishpat183]

telling someone to **** off really screams "professional"

Read the previous comment and do the same.


In NFL locker rooms, that's how biz is handled.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat you have one Hell of an idea of playful banter.

Secondly does the fact that reports are coming out that the coaching staff told Icognito to "toughen" up Martin change yor opinion any? There are even reports that the coaches encouraged hazing. In that environment how the Hell could Martin keep it internal when the coaching staff is part of the problem.

You assume that by "toughen up" they meant "go haze martin".

I doubt that was what they had in mind. Come on.


What you, and others are saying, is that coaches said that it was ok for Incognito to use racial slurs and pick on Martin to toughen him up? Laugable.

What makes you think they didn't say that at practice? Or in a film study to challenge the players to make Martin get tough on the field?



Again, it's this "anti-bully mob" that is taking over. Every time someone calls someone a name it's "bullying".


Who cares?! Let them work it out. The NFL doesn't need to do anything.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Depends on the industry...

you got me there

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Well this thread got stupid quickly. I wonder if it was lord of the morons who caused it?

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

You assume that by "toughen up" they meant "go haze martin".

I doubt that was what they had in mind. Come on.


What you, and others are saying, is that coaches said that it was ok for Incognito to use racial slurs and pick on Martin to toughen him up? Laugable.

What makes you think they didn't say that at practice? Or in a film study to challenge the players to make Martin get tough on the field?



Again, it's this "anti-bully mob" that is taking over. Every time someone calls someone a name it's "bullying".


Who cares?! Let them work it out. The NFL doesn't need to do anything.

nobody is saying this. we're just pointing out that this entire situation started because of instructions given by the coaching staff. the content of the "toughen up" approach was surely (and hopely) not encouraged. i think everyone is on the same page there. if true, the staff should've thought more carefully about who to have approach martin. incognito is known to have serious issues. it was no secret that teams put him on many "do not draft" lists.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

 

[irishpat183]

"The racial aspect of the saga took a fairly ridiculous turn when the Miami Herald posted a story titled "Richie Incognito considered black in Dolphins locker room." In it, three black Dolphins players are quoted as saying they don't think Incognito is a racist, and the Herald's Armando Salguero wrote this passage:


Well, I've spoken to multiple people today about this and the explanation from all of them is that in the Dolphins locker room, Richie Incognito was considered a black guy. He was accepted by the black players. He was an honorary black man.

And Jonathan Martin, who is bi-racial, was not. Indeed, Martin was considered less black than Incognito.

"Richie is honarary," one player who left the Dolphins this offseason told me today. "I don't expect you to understand because you're not black. But being a black guy, being a brother is more than just about skin color. It's about how you carry yourself. How you play. Where you come from. What you've experienced. A lot of things."




There is more to this story. Teammates, black teammates, are seeming to side with Incognito.

 

[irishpat183]

Well this thread got stupid quickly. I wonder if it was lord of the morons who caused it?

It's not stupid at all. We're discussing our theories on what happened.

Before you start calling names, read the posts...which you didn't do.


And of course you're referencing me. Thanks. Here I was thinking I was merely a prince of morons.

 

[irishpat183]

nobody is saying this. we're just pointing out that this entire situation started because of instructions given by the coaching staff. the content of the "toughen up" approach was surely (and hopely) not encouraged. i think everyone is on the same page there. if true, the staff should've thought more carefully about who to have approach martin. incognito is known to have serious issues. it was no secret that teams put him on many "do not draft" lists.

Yeah, but most of Incognito's issues are with players on other teams, not his own.

For all we know, and what Dolphin players are saying, he's a solid teammate. Just a douche to new guys and other teams

 

[Ndaccountant]

Y! SPORTS

Maybe all of the nfl isnt like the phins?

 

[Kanye West]

Y! SPORTS

Maybe all of the nfl isnt like the phins?

It isn't or there would be more stuff coming out? Considering bullying new teammates isn't the best way to build chemistry, I doubt there are many other cases like this.

 

[IrishLion]

Hell, Martin didn't even go to the Dolphins!!! I forgot who broke it first, but Martin just walked out and never came back. The Dolphins had to reach out to him.

How do you know?


And after reading the texts that Incognito sent...

"Hey wassup you half-nigg**, you're still a rookie, and I will kill you"


Seems like they had a playful banter. You could say that text was playful banter just as much as you could assume it was for real.

That doesn't sound like playfull banter. If that's Incognito's idea of "playful banter via hazing the rookie," then he's just an uncreative douche with a terrible sense of humor.

Also, you keep referencing the media shitsstorm... most of that was brought on by Incognito himself when he decided to call everyone out on Twitter.

 

[Irish2155]

[/B]


let's keep in mind that this is an employment situation. i know the chemistry of a professional sports team is different than a typical office, but walking out isn't necessarily a maturity issue. if a coworker was messing with me, one of the things i would consider is quitting. nothing requires him to fix it himself or tell the staff/front office/unions. he didn't want to play for miami anymore because there wasn't a professional environment. bulllying and bully resolution options aside, who wants to work with someone like incognito in any setting (including the NFL)?

Apparently the rest of the Dolphins linemen do. At least from the most recent reports of teammates defending him.

 

[woolybug25]

How do you know?


And after reading the texts that Incognito sent...

"Hey wassup you half-nigg**, you're still a rookie, and I will kill you"


Seems like they had a playful banter. You could say that text was playful banter just as much as you could assume it was for real.

So calling a half black dude a "half nigg**" is your idea of "playful banter"

Seriously... do you have a mild personality disorder or something?

 

[IrishLion]

So calling a half black dude a "half nigg**" is your idea of "playful banter"

Seriously... do you have a mild personality disorder or something?

But Wooly, the black dudes in the lockerroom named Incognito an honorary brother! That makes it okay for him to use the n-word!

 

[irishpat183]

So calling a half black dude a "half nigg**" is your idea of "playful banter"

Seriously... do you have a mild personality disorder or something?

Again, its all about context.

Incognito is viewed by many of his black teammates as "one of them".

So to THEM IN THEIR CIRCLE, it's not a big deal to hear that talk coming outta his mouth.




And I probably do have some kinda disorder..but I'm not a vag and I'll deal with it like a man: Alcohol and kicking ***.

 

[woolybug25]

Yeah, but most of Incognito's issues are with players on other teams, not his own.

For all we know, and what Dolphin players are saying, he's a solid teammate. Just a douche to new guys and other teams

You are unbelievable. You don't even bother to research the topics you talk about. Just spit off whatever comes off the top of your head. Here is how this dude has treated "his own".

• As a freshman at Nebraska in 2002, Incognito (according to USA Today this week) bullied teammate Jack Limbaugh to the point where he stormed off at practice.

• After several incidents involving fans and then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo (during a game against the Tennessee Titans), Incognito was released in December 2009.

• Incognito was voted the "NFL's dirtiest player" by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players in 2009.

• The incidents with Jonathan Martin, which reportedly dated from his rookie season, and through April OTAs, came to light in November.

 

[irishpat183]

But Wooly, the black dudes in the lockerroom named Incognito an honorary brother! That makes it okay for him to use the n-word!

Then what's the problem if he uses it with teammates that deemed it ok?

So you're saying because YOU and some butt hurt media members find it offensive given where they stand, he shoudln't say it??

He might have been talking like this for years with his teammates.......Never had a problem.

I mean, i get it when you use the word in a hateful manner...but this all sounds like teammates screwing around with each other.

 

[irishpat183]

You are unbelievable. You don't even bother to research the topics you talk about. Just spit off whatever comes off the top of your head. Here is how this dude has treated "his own".

• As a freshman at Nebraska in 2002, Incognito (according to USA Today this week) bullied teammate Jack Limbaugh to the point where he stormed off at practice.

• After several incidents involving fans and then-Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo (during a game against the Tennessee Titans), Incognito was released in December 2009.

• Incognito was voted the "NFL's dirtiest player" by The Sporting News in a poll of 99 players in 2009.

• The incidents with Jonathan Martin, which reportedly dated from his rookie season, and through April OTAs, came to light in November.

So other than an incident with a teammate as a FRESHMAN at NEB...no other issues with teammates until now?

Maybe YOU need to check yourself. Nice try.


And I'm well aware of his rep. Dude is a dirty SOB. And I dont like him. But there are teammates going to bat for him on this one. I haven't heard ONE dolphin call him a racist.

 

[Ndaccountant]

So other than an incident with a teammate as a FRESHMAN at NEB...no other issues with teammates until now?

Maybe YOU need to check yourself. Nice try.


And I'm well aware of his rep. Dude is a dirty SOB. And I dont like him. But there are teammates going to bat for him on this one. I haven't heard ONE dolphin call him a racist.

Maybe some people are approaching the racist side, but that is just white noise (pun intended). The real issue is the harassment.

 

[irishpat183]

Maybe some people are approaching the racist side, but that is just white noise (pun intended). The real issue is the harassment.

Fair enough.

And my point was not to say he isn't guilty of harassing Martin...but that it should be dealt with in house. Not through the national anti-bullying campaign run by pussies

 

[Ndaccountant]

Fair enough.

And my point was not to say he isn't guilty of harassing Martin...but that it should be dealt with in house. Not through the national anti-bullying campaign run by pussies

And I get that and I would agree with you. However, if it is true that the coaches wanted this and even ordered it, as has been reported, you can understand why an "in-house" solution was really a viable option, correct?

 

[IrishLion]

Fair enough.

And my point was not to say he isn't guilty of harassing Martin...but that it should be dealt with in house. Not through the national anti-bullying campaign run by pussies

The national anti-bullying campaign wouldn't be so heavily involved if Incognito wouldn't have called out the media on Twitter.

Douchebag brought it on himself.

And for the record, I agreed with you in the other bullying thread. However, that's kids being kids. Incognito is a grown-*** man, so he has no excuse.

 

[woolybug25]

So other than an incident with a teammate as a FRESHMAN at NEB...no other issues with teammates until now?

Maybe YOU need to check yourself. Nice try.


And I'm well aware of his rep. Dude is a dirty SOB. And I dont like him. But there are teammates going to bat for him on this one. I haven't heard ONE dolphin call him a racist.

So you don't accept the evidence at Nebraska because its too long ago and you don't accept the coach because he isn't a player?

Ok then.

Btw, can you call your friends at work "half Nigg**"? If you did and they made a complaint, could you use the excuse that "he was part of your circle and he was always ok with it before"? The NFL is still a business that has to abide by the laws regarding harassment in the workplace.

 

[irishpat183]

And I get that and I would agree with you. However, if it is true that the coaches wanted this and even ordered it, as has been reported, you can understand why an "in-house" solution was really a viable option, correct?

That remains to be seen. And I can't buy the coaches condoning this. At all.

Again, them telling teammates to help "toughen" guys up doesn't mean anything. Could've been in practice, film...etc.

I think that was "reported" as an overraction to this whole thing....

"OHHHHH!!!! I HEARD THE COACHES TELL HIM TO TOUGHEN MARTIN UP!!!" They must've meant treat him like **** and text him racist texts!!


Again, I'm not even reading into that at all.



And did Martin even give the coaches a chance to step in? Or what about other vets on the team? He would've for sure mentioned to a teammate that Incognito was using racial slurs to a buddy in the locker room, no???

That's what I'm not getting here....If all this was so damn bad, and heinous....there would be guys jumping all over Incognitos ***.

 

[irishpat183]

So you don't accept the evidence at Nebraska because its too long ago and you don't accept the coach because he isn't a player?

Ok then.

Btw, can you call your friends at work "half Nigg**"? If you did and they made a complaint, could you use the excuse that "he was part of your circle and he was always ok with it before"? The NFL is still a business that has to abide by the laws regarding harassment in the workplace.

I get this. I really do.

But you also must admit that this is an entirely different kind of "workplace" that is run by testosterone.

Are you now gonna regulate what is said on the field? Warren Sapp is on record as saying that Incognito called him a Nigg** on the field and he didn't care...why? because that's the culture and it was a "term of endearment". Never heard a word about that until now and Sapp retired years ago....


Again, you can't say this is a typical workplace and typical rules apply. That would be stupid.

 

[Ndaccountant]

That remains to be seen. And I can't buy the coaches condoning this. At all.

Again, them telling teammates to help "toughen" guys up doesn't mean anything. Could've been in practice, film...etc.

I think that was "reported" as an overraction to this whole thing....

"OHHHHH!!!! I HEARD THE COACHES TELL HIM TO TOUGHEN MARTIN UP!!!" They must've meant treat him like **** and text him racist texts!!


Again, I'm not even reading into that at all.



And did Martin even give the coaches a chance to step in? Or what about other vets on the team? He would've for sure mentioned to a teammate that Incognito was using racial slurs to a buddy in the locker room, no???

That's what I'm not getting here....If all this was so damn bad, and heinous....there would be guys jumping all over Incognitos ***.

And that is where the culture side comes into this. I know you don't buy that, but it's true. If the team had a culture of treating some as outcasts, nobody would bat an eye. If guys felt by standing up they would become the target of the harassment, they let it go. If guys thought they stood to profit from Martin not playing or being demoted, they let it go. There are numerous possible reasons why people wouldn't report it.

You ever see that show what would you do? You see it all the time that people witness an act that obviously goes against social norms yet only some people stand in. You think that is any different in the NFL locker room?

 

[IrishLion]

I get this. I really do.

But you also must admit that this is an entirely different kind of "workplace" that is run by testosterone.

Are you now gonna regulate what is said on the field? Warren Sapp is on record as saying that Incognito called him a Nigg** on the field and he didn't care...why? because that's the culture and it was a "term of endearment". Never heard a word about that until now and Sapp retired years ago....


Again, you can't say this is a typical workplace and typical rules apply. That would be stupid.

I would agree, but the example referenced was ON the field... I'm a gigantic supporter of "what happens on the field, stays on the field." When you're in the heat of battle, you say stuff and might even do stuff that is unmentionable. People just tried to start a storm over Pacman Jones threatening a WR from the Jets, but the Jets WR blew it off and said, "I didn't take it as a threat. He said it on the field in the heat of the moment."

However, what Incognito has been doing is NOT on the field. He's taking it too far, and that's my whole issue.

I understand you want to toughen your teammate up, and I agree that some people are made better for it in the long run. However, Incognito should have kept it strictly on the practice field by getting after Martin in drills, and probably should've realized that Martin was bit unstable.

 

[irishpat183]

And that is where the culture side comes into this. I know you don't buy that, but it's true. If the team had a culture of treating some as outcasts, nobody would bat an eye. If guys felt by standing up they would become the target of the harassment, they let it go. If guys thought they stood to profit from Martin not playing or being demoted, they let it go. There is numerous possible reasons why people wouldn't report it.

You ever see that show what would you do? You see it all the time that people witness an act that obviously goes against social norms yet only some people stand in. You think that is any different in the NFL locker room?

...if this is the case, and Martin was THAT FAR removed from his team...


Then is it really Incognito's (and the rest of the Dolphins roster which includes many, many black players) problem?

Again, nobody else had an issue. Either you gel with the team or you don't.

 

[Pachuco]

That's what I'm not getting here....If all this was so damn bad, and heinous....there would be guys jumping all over Incognitos ***.[/QUOTE]

Not if it means potential suspensions. If they witnessed harassment and said nothing about it, it could mean their "biz" is threatened. Self-interest is a powerful motivating factor.