Is this a case of "Bullying"??

[irishpat183]

there is no blurry line. bullying can include criminal behavior. that's the bottom line. if you didn't mean to include that in your pro-bully post, then say that. don't just throw out these bold statements without considering whether you might need to articulate your thoughts a bit better.

I'm in a hurry sometimes, tough ****. LOL

 

[irishpat183]

there is no blurry line. bullying can include criminal behavior. that's the bottom line. if you didn't mean to include that in your pro-bully post, then say that. don't just throw out these bold statements without considering whether you might need to articulate your thoughts a bit better.

There is a blurry line. Othewise, stop calling it "bullying" and just call it criminal behaivor.

It's like "hate crimes"....aren't all crimes "hateful"??

 

[IrishLion]

On a base level, I have to agree with Pat.

My dad always taught me that there would be idiots out there to deal with. He told me to not let it get to me, but that if it was starting to bother me, that I needed to stand up for myself.

It's a HUGE generalization of course, and every case is different, but there are many "bullied" kids out there who simply don't stand up for themselves. They have a victim's mentality, and they take it and take it until they're completely broken down, and that's when stuff gets serious.

There are always going to be bullies. The difference is that these days, parents don't tell kids to stand up for themselves, thus ingraining them with the mentality that they are strong enough to deal with things. They simply teach the kid that bullying is wrong, but they don't prepare the kid for when it happens anyway.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

I get that....but normally when it gets to that point, who's fault is it?

Hear me out:

Kid A picks on Kid B. Kid B just takes it. Never saying anything, never fighting back...etc. Kid A continues to do it to othe point where Kid B finally breaks down. Charges are filed, shrinks are involved, or a suicide happens (extreme cases).


Had Kid B just stood up for himself from the begining...we likely avoid all these insane cases of teens offing themselves becuase of a ****ing facebook post. I'm sorry, I understand there are those that have lost loved ones due to suicide and I totally sympathize (my brother has tried to kill himself twice)...but alot of this behaior today isn't because of the bullies, but because we are raising such pussies.

i can't take your posts on this topic seriously because you just want to isolate particular hypotheticals that fit your argument. there's a broad spectrum of bullying that makes you and your comments look completely out of touch with reality. i've clearly stated that i understand low end bullying is not a big deal on its own. but don't blame the victims and assume that fighting back will resolve the issue. i can make up endless hypotheticals where that doesn't pan out well. Kid B fights back and Kid A beats him so badly that Kid B ends up in the hospital with internal bleeding and dies. How does your advice look then?

edit: and it's disgusting how you dismiss kids who have killed themselves over bullying. you act like you know it wasn't that bad. i'm sure some were too sensitive, but how do you know it wasn't so bad that a high percentage of kids would kill themselves over it? how could you say that to the face of their parents? we both know that there can be a reaction to the situation that is too severe, but have the decency to respect the victims.

 

[greyhammer90]

i can't take your posts on this topic seriously because you just want to isolate particular hypotheticals that fit your argument. there's a broad spectrum of bullying that makes you and your comments look completely out of touch with reality. i've clearly stated that i understand low end bullying is not a big deal on its own. but don't blame the victims and assume that fighting back will resolve the issue. i can make up endless hypotheticals where that doesn't pan out well. Kid B fights back and Kid A beats him so badly that Kid B ends up in the hospital with internal bleeding and dies. How does your advice look then?

Rub some dirt on it

 

[irishpat183]

On a base level, I have to agree with Pat.

My dad always taught me that there would be idiots out there to deal with. He told me to not let it get to me, but that if it was starting to bother me, that I needed to stand up for myself.

It's a HUGE generalization of course, and every case is different, but there are many "bullied" kids out there who simply don't stand up for themselves. They have a victim's mentality, and they take it and take it until they're completely broken down, and that's when stuff gets serious.

There are always going to be bullies. The difference is that these days, parents don't tell kids to stand up for themselves, thus ingraining them with the mentality that they are strong enough to deal with things. They simply teach the kid that bullying is wrong, but they don't prepare the kid for when it happens anyway.

This.


Nobody tells kids that life is going to be hard anymore. So they grow up without knowing how to deal with conflict. Creating a society of wimps.

 

[irishpat183]

i can't take your posts on this topic seriously because you just want to isolate particular hypotheticals that fit your argument. there's a broad spectrum of bullying that makes you and your comments look completely out of touch with reality. i've clearly stated that i understand low end bullying is not a big deal on its own. but don't blame the victims and assume that fighting back will resolve the issue. i can make up endless hypotheticals where that doesn't pan out well. Kid B fights back and Kid A beats him so badly that Kid B ends up in the hospital with internal bleeding and dies. How does your advice look then?

edit: and it's disgusting how you dismiss kids who have killed themselves over bullying. you act like you know it wasn't that bad. i'm sure some were too sensitive, but how do you know it wasn't so bad that a high percentage of kids would kill themselves over it? how could you say that to the face of their parents? we both know that there can be a reaction to the situation that is too severe, but have the decency to respect the victims.

And I'm not the one out of touch!!! Kids and teenagers are. Life is hard. Get used to people picking on you now and learn how to deal with it. If you can't, God help you.

I did not dismiss it. Re read my post. I simply said that it probably could've been avoided.

 

[irishpat183]

Don't confuse my opinion with a lack of compassion....I'm taking emotion out of this conversation.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

really guys? nobody tells their kid to toughen up? or that life is hard? NOBODY?

stop oversimplifying the whole thing. this thread is a joke.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

Don't confuse my opinion with a lack of compassion....I'm taking emotion out of this conversation.

wtf kind of logic is that?

 

[greyhammer90]

This.


Nobody tells kids that life is going to be hard anymore. So they grow up without knowing how to deal with conflict. Creating a society of wimps.

Can you show some actual proof of this creation of a society of wimps? Or are you just imagining strawmen North of the Mason-Dixon line doing this and arguing against the way they are raising their straw-kids? You're essentially just posting your own bullsh*t conjecture on this point, and asking us to refute it.

I remember during one of the first political debates you ever got into on this site you said something along the lines of "I hate self-loathing Americans." Look in the mirror buddy.

 

[Wild Bill]

This.


Nobody tells kids that life is going to be hard anymore. So they grow up without knowing how to deal with conflict. Creating a society of wimps.

I'll be waiting for a thank you card from the pussies I bullied in high school.

 

[irishpat183]

really guys? nobody tells their kid to toughen up? or that life is hard? NOBODY?

stop oversimplifying the whole thing. this thread is a joke.

wtf kind of logic is that?

1. I bet that number is dwindling by the day. I'm sure there are parents out there that do...but you're lying to yourself if you think that's the norm nowadays. Pat them on the head, blame it on the other guy, and give them some pills.

2. It's exactly that: Logic. Emotion leads to irrational thinking. Logic may seem insensitive, but it doesn't lead to "bullying" legislation that ends up with kids being prosecuted for a facebook post, now does it?

 

[irisheyes]

You guys are all a bunch of bullies.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

And I'm not the one out of touch!!! Kids and teenagers are. Life is hard. Get used to people picking on you now and learn how to deal with it. If you can't, God help you.

I did not dismiss it. Re read my post. I simply said that it probably could've been avoided.

this really sums up your perspective to me. you think we should just abandon kids who can't take it. you assume your advice will magically help every victim, and if that doesn't work then they're just on their own. tough.

 

[irishpat183]

I'll be waiting for a thank you card from the pussies I bullied in high school.

LOL!!!!!

That fat kid in highschool that lost a ton of weight? Buy that bully dinner!

 

[ACamp1900]

Hey guys, Notre Dame beat USC this past weekend....

 

[greyhammer90]

Hey guys, Notre Dame beat USC this past weekend....

We already had the boobs thread now we need the American p*ssies thread.

 

[wizards8507]

this really sums up your perspective to me. you think we should just abandon kids who can't take it. you assume your advice will magically help every victim, and if that doesn't work then they're just on their own. tough.

No, his advice is built on the premise that not every "victim" IS a victim. Coddling people only encourages the victim mentality when it's not always warranted.

 

[irishpat183]

this really sums up your perspective to me. you think we should just abandon kids who can't take it. you assume your advice will magically help every victim, and if that doesn't work then they're just on their own. tough.

Not abandon...just teach. Show them how to handle it.

I never said "abandon" anyone.

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

1. I bet that number is dwindling by the day. I'm sure there are parents out there that do...but you're lying to yourself if you think that's the norm nowadays. Pat them on the head, blame it on the other guy, and give them some pills.

2. It's exactly that: Logic. Emotion leads to irrational thinking. Logic may seem insensitive, but it doesn't lead to "bullying" legislation that ends up with kids being prosecuted for a facebook post, now does it?

you assume way too much buddy. just accept that there are many examples, in reality and hypothetically, that don't fit your little model for stopping a bully. you have to understand that it's not as simple as you believe. just because some people overreact doesn't mean the country is going to hell in a hand basket. you're overreacting about other people overreacting.

 

[irishpat183]

Can you show some actual proof of this creation of a society of wimps? Or are you just imagining strawmen North of the Mason-Dixon line doing this and arguing against the way they are raising their straw-kids? You're essentially just posting your own bullsh*t conjecture on this point, and asking us to refute it.

I remember during one of the first political debates you ever got into on this site you said something along the lines of "I hate self-loathing Americans." Look in the mirror buddy.

Thanks for remembering another IP victory....


This is a great piece that hits the nail on the head (full of staticstics and studies and not my "own bullshit"..so suck it):

Three Huge Mistakes We Make Leading Kids…and How to Correct Them

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

No, his advice is built on the premise that not every "victim" IS a victim. Coddling people only encourages the victim mentality when it's not always warranted.

sure, not every victim is a victim. but that perspective doesn't help the victims who won't be helped by his advice.

the difference between my perspective and pat's, is that i accept and understand there's the possibility of every circumstance. he's trying to neatly package it into his narrow perspective. by ignoring those beyond his help, he's effectively abandoning them. whether he used that word or not, he clearly implied it.

 

[IrishLion]

really guys? nobody tells their kid to toughen up? or that life is hard? NOBODY?

stop oversimplifying the whole thing. this thread is a joke.

For the record, I recognized my post as a vast generalization and thus a simplification.

I agree with Pat on the base level that kids are not taught/prepared to deal with bullies like they should be. They are simply taught that bullying is wrong, and that's where the teaching stops in some cases.

"Kids, bullying is wrong. We should treat eachother with kindness and respect."

That's a good start, but that is also where it stops sometimes. In reality, it should continue.

"Kids, bullying is wrong. We should treat eachother with kindness and respect. But sometimes, there is going to be a bully anyway. Here are some ways to deal with bullying..."

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

For the record, I recognized my post as a vast generalization and thus a simplification.

I agree with Pat on the base level that kids are not taught/prepared to deal with bullies like they should be. They are simply taught that bullying is wrong, and that's where the teaching stops in some cases.

"Kids, bullying is wrong. We should treat eachother with kindness and respect."

That's a good start, but that is also where it stops sometimes. In reality, it should continue.

"Kids, bullying is wrong. We should treat eachother with kindness and respect. But sometimes, there is going to be a bully anyway. Here are some ways to deal with bullying..."

i don't object to your posts. you're capable of seeing the big picture. irishpat is an absolutist. note that he won't acknowledge what falls outside his "solution" to bullying.

 

[greyhammer90]

Thanks for remembering another IP victory....


This is a great piece that hits the nail on the head (full of staticstics and studies and not my "own bullshit"..so suck it):

Three Huge Mistakes We Make Leading Kids…and How to Correct Them

You decide to disprove that you're posting conjecture by posting an article with almost nothing but conjecture.... Even the parts that have a cite to a journal don't support your premise that the majority of America does things this way (kids still have playgrounds and go outside last time I checked) and thus has become a nation of weaklings.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Some of my biggest role models growing up were bullies:

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

nobody likes wayne, come on

 

[Irish2155]

DEBO!!!

 

[ACamp1900]

DEBO!!!

He got knocked da f**k out!!