ND Oversold on Kelly?

[palinurus]

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to bring in 130 recruits in 4 years at ND, would he Pat?

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to bring his JUCOs in at ND, would he Pat?

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to get half his players past ND Admissions, would he Pat?


Those are just three of the reasons Urban Meyer turned down ND. (He can tap on the table with an NC ring as well.)

I haven't read every post, so I apologize if this has been said: while this is all true, let's not unfairly compare ourselves to programs with lesser/different standards. But I don't see why we still can't do extremely well and compete for titles. Someone has to tell me why Stanford, which I see as a Notre Dame type program in terms of academics (perhaps slightly better!), has been able to sustain excellence, but we cannot. I thought Stanford's success was built on Andrew Luck, but he's two years gone and they are still doing great. And I am not aware that Stanford's recruiting classes are ranked higher than ours.

 

[DCirishfan]

What if golson git hurt? What was bks back up plan? "Rees ... unacceptable

 

[Buster Bluth]

What if golson git hurt? What was bks back up plan? "Rees ... unacceptable

I honestly can't tell if this is serious.

 

[koonja]

Then you need to go root for another team.

Seriously, no team has been able to sustain that kind of success (compete for a title every year) for a long time. Bama has been doing it for 3 seasons, before Saban, they were a dumpster fire.

I'm so sick of fans like you. Your expectations are too high for any program, any coach or any players. Just go be a fan of Bama and then switch to whatever team has the next big success. Because if you are going to hate on the team this much, we don't need you.

I really SMH when people say this. Two people can cheer for the same team. One can want to win big even if it means relaxing some standards, while another wants the standards and is happy as a pig in **** if we go 9-3 every year. "If you don't like it my way go route for another team". Really? Come on... ND has already loosened up their academic standards. What's to say in the future they couldn't make more changes? IrishPat has to find another team to route for because he wishes ND would change somethings? That's asinine. He's a passionate ND fan. If he wasn't, he wouldn't get so worked up about them.

I would disagree, and don't question my fan hood simply because you disagree with my stance and view of the program. You don't "need" fans like me is as stupid a statement that anyone has ever made. If there wasn't a system of checks and balances or accountability, we would dive off into a socialist regime. Come at me with something better than that.

I don't think it is unrealistic to have those expectations. 9 wins plus is a standard at many programs, and when they fall below those expectations, coaches get run. The list of teams that have consistently achieved those levels of success is higher then you think. But, I guess I am not a "good fan" for having expectations of someone we pay millions of dollars and throw money at a sport that as of yet has not delivered on its goods.

Amen.

That goes to my point on player development. Honest question...if you are developing the younger talent do you see that sort of drop off from one year to the next? I understand the QB situation, but the rest?

This is what I don't get. We seem to have an excuse for everything nowadays, whereas the only one I give ND/BK a 100% pass on is the QB situation.

People make excuses all of the time on here. "We had an injury", "someone transferred", "well you try and replace ------", etc. BK is in his 4th year. Yes, the QB situation is out of his control and he's recruited very well at the QB position. After this year, he'll never have a QB issue again (knock on wood).

Transfers, coaching changes, injuries happen EVERYWHERE. We just lost to Michigan who was out 2 starting captains on defense, not to mention their best defensive player. Oklahoma replaced a veteran QB last year and beat us by double digits in our own stadium. MSU/Purdue can't light a candle to us in recruiting, and they fight us to the final buzzer, not to mention Purdue has a first year coach I believe. We complain about a couple of new starters on the offensive line, but it's not like they're true freshman. If you want to talk about unexperienced offensive line, look at Michigan. They do not have the veterans in the middle like we have.

I'm all in on BK and ND but I cannot recall one legitimate excuse for this team besides the QB issue. That is unseen and really cost us this year. We're not a great team this year, and honestly it's because we're a little slow on defense but 99% of it is missing Golson. If you want to point to anything, point to that and find solace in it because that's a major handicap. But inexperience, injuries, transfers, it's all a poor man's excuse because every school has these things happen to them one way or another.

Oh, I forgot my favorite is when the people who say we're a fast defense but we just have slow reaction times and take bad angles. No, we're slow. We need to get more athletic, especially at safety and in the middle. Hopefully Redfield/Shummate/JuJu Smith help on the back end, IDK what's going to save the middle.

I haven't read every post, so I apologize if this has been said: while this is all true, let's not unfairly compare ourselves to programs with lesser/different standards. But I don't see why we still can't do extremely well and compete for titles. Someone has to tell me why Stanford, which I see as a Notre Dame type program in terms of academics (perhaps slightly better!), has been able to sustain excellence, but we cannot. I thought Stanford's success was built on Andrew Luck, but he's two years gone and they are still doing great. And I am not aware that Stanford's recruiting classes are ranked higher than ours.

According to 247, we've had a higher ranked class than Stanford 3 of the last 4 years.

BK knows more than any of us or any pissed of Irish fan how ****** his QB situation is. But after this year, that will never be the case as long as he is our coach. He'll have Golson for 2 years, Malik for 4 years, Kizer for 5 years and anything after that will be his doing.

This year sucks because losing Golson makes us an awful offense. We're not a great team, but we lost the most important player on our team, and the heir apparent had an untimely transfer because he knew how good Golson was going to be. This is the only excuse ND fans should be using, and if you don't think it's a big one, watch Golson at the end of last year.

 

[BGIF]

Try responding in context like the rest of us did here!

Try responding in context like the rest of us did here!

You can break down stats or whatever you want, there isn't a better man in the country to have as head football coach at Notre Dame.

Nick Saban (while tapping his rings on the table)....

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to bring in 130 recruits in 4 years at ND, would he Pat?

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to bring his JUCOs in at ND, would he Pat?

Nick Saban wouldn't be allowed to get half his players past ND Admissions, would he Pat?


Those are just three of the reasons Urban Meyer turned down ND. (He can tap on the table with an NC ring as well.)

I haven't read every post, so I apologize if this has been said: while this is all true, let's not unfairly compare ourselves to programs with lesser/different standards. But I don't see why we still can't do extremely well and compete for titles. Someone has to tell me why Stanford, which I see as a Notre Dame type program in terms of academics (perhaps slightly better!), has been able to sustain excellence, but we cannot. I thought Stanford's success was built on Andrew Luck, but he's two years gone and they are still doing great. And I am not aware that Stanford's recruiting classes are ranked higher than ours.

If you had bothered to read the posts in context, my reply would need no explanation.

Feel free to highlight where I underfairly responded to Pat's retort.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I really SMH when people say this. Two people can cheer for the same team. One can want to win big even if it means relaxing some standards, while another wants the standards and is happy as a pig in **** if we go 9-3 every year. "If you don't like it my way go route for another team". Really? Come on... ND has already loosened up their academic standards. What's to say in the future they couldn't make more changes? IrishPat has to find another team to route for because he wishes ND would change somethings? That's asinine. He's a passionate ND fan. If he wasn't, he wouldn't get so worked up about them.

That doesn't mean pat doesn't need to tone it down. He stated that 10-2 is not a good year, yet it's a 83.3% winning percentage. Ara Parseghian was 83.4%. It's perfectly acceptable.

This is what I don't get. We seem to have an excuse for everything nowadays, whereas the only one I give ND/BK a 100% pass on is the QB situation.

People make excuses all of the time on here. "We had an injury", "someone transferred", "well you try and replace ------", etc. BK is in his 4th year. Yes, the QB situation is out of his control and he's recruited very well at the QB position. After this year, he'll never have a QB issue again (knock on wood).

There are reasons for everything. An excuse is a reason you don't want to accept.

Transfers, coaching changes, injuries happen EVERYWHERE. We just lost to Michigan who was out 2 starting captains on defense, not to mention their best defensive player. Oklahoma replaced a veteran QB last year and beat us by double digits in our own stadium. MSU/Purdue can't light a candle to us in recruiting, and they fight us to the final buzzer, not to mention Purdue has a first year coach I believe.

This is without question some creative phrasing of facts to slant a story. You should enter politics if you like doing it.

We complain about a couple of new starters on the offensive line, but it's not like they're true freshman. If you want to talk about unexperienced offensive line, look at Michigan. They do not have the veterans in the middle like we have.

I'm not sure there has been a lot of complaining of the OL. They've been fine in my opinion.

I'm all in on BK and ND but I cannot recall one legitimate excuse for this team besides the QB issue.

And the QB is basically the entire offense. On the defensive side of the ball, we need to accept that Diaco basically has four returning starters. I've mentioned it earlier in this thread.

Oh, I forgot my favorite is when the people who say we're a fast defense but we just have slow reaction times and take bad angles. No, we're slow. We need to get more athletic, especially at safety and in the middle. Hopefully Redfield/Shummate/JuJu Smith help on the back end, IDK what's going to save the middle.

They're really not all that slow. Every damn defense in the country has slower ILBs than they'd like. But you can always get more athletic. I'd give them a 7.5/10. What hurts this defense is the inexperience, and it doubles when they go nickle/dime due to DB depth.

This defense was built to play against power running teams, because the schedule normally sees Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Navy, Stanford, Pittsburgh, Boston College, and Southern Cal annually. That's not an excuse, it's a reason. It's why the defense is still stout against the run. It's why going against spread offenses with inexperienced linebackers and defensive backs have spelled trouble.

BK knows more than any of us or any pissed of Irish fan how ****** his QB situation is. But after this year, that will never be the case as long as he is our coach. He'll have Golson for 2 years, Malik for 4 years, Kizer for 5 years and anything after that will be his doing.

Never say never. I've seen too much **** to talk that way. Golson could not come back and ND would be in trouble. I'm 99% sure he will, but if he gets hurt in August...uh oh.

This year sucks because losing Golson makes us an awful offense.

I don't think people will say this team has an awful offense at the end of the year. Rees has only shown us, throughout his entire career, that he has trouble against supremely athletic defenses. Other than that, he's not awful. This running game will pick up, they'll be alright.

 

[Irish Insanity]

This year sucks because losing Golson makes us an awful offense. We're not a great team, but we lost the most important player on our team, and the heir apparent had an untimely transfer because he knew how good Golson was going to be. This is the only excuse ND fans should be using, and if you don't think it's a big one, watch Golson at the end of last year.

Look, losing Golson sucks. But we aren't awful on offense. Our average points per game is only like 3 less than last year. Our D last year forced more TOs and gave our O a short field to work with. We don't have that this year. Don't get me wrong, there is a big drop off between Rees and Golson down the stretch last year, but he is also being asked to do more bacause our D is struggling to hold the opponents score down. Golson only had to lead the O to 20 points to win. Rees needs to lead them to 30+. And with no Eifert, Riddick, or Wood.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Then you need to go root for another team.

Seriously, no team has been able to sustain that kind of success (compete for a title every year) for a long time. Bama has been doing it for 3 seasons, before Saban, they were a dumpster fire.

I'm so sick of fans like you. Your expectations are too high for any program, any coach or any players. Just go be a fan of Bama and then switch to whatever team has the next big success. Because if you are going to hate on the team this much, we don't need you.

The Bama nation doesn't want Pat either. Sorry... he belongs to you guys.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Pat often comes across angry, he may just need a hug. But I'd rather have passionate fans showing there support for the team and high expectations as opposed to ones quietly reading the Wall Street Journal while sitting in the stands.

 

[koonja]

That doesn't mean pat doesn't need to tone it down. He stated that 10-2 is not a good year, yet it's a 83.3% winning percentage. Ara Parseghian was 83.4%. It's perfectly acceptable.

There are reasons for everything. An excuse is a reason you don't want to accept.


This is without question some creative phrasing of facts to slant a story. You should enter politics if you like doing it.



I'm not sure there has been a lot of complaining of the OL. They've been fine in my opinion.



And the QB is basically the entire offense. On the defensive side of the ball, we need to accept that Diaco basically has four returning starters. I've mentioned it earlier in this thread.


They're really not all that slow. Every damn defense in the country has slower ILBs than they'd like. But you can always get more athletic. I'd give them a 7.5/10. What hurts this defense is the inexperience, and it doubles when they go nickle/dime due to DB depth.

This defense was built to play against power running teams, because the schedule normally sees Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Navy, Stanford, Pittsburgh, Boston College, and Southern Cal annually. That's not an excuse, it's a reason. It's why the defense is still stout against the run. It's why going against spread offenses with inexperienced linebackers and defensive backs have spelled trouble.



Never say never. I've seen too much **** to talk that way. Golson could not come back and ND would be in trouble. I'm 99% sure he will, but if he gets hurt in August...uh oh.



I don't think people will say this team has an awful offense at the end of the year. Rees has only shown us, throughout his entire career, that he has trouble against supremely athletic defenses. Other than that, he's not awful. This running game will pick up, they'll be alright.

Sure. But asking someone to cool it and asking them find another team is way different.

I'm simply saying all teams are going through something, whether it's injuries, coaching changes, etc., and outside of Keil transferring and Golson becoming ineligible, there's really nothing surprising that doesn't happen to almost every other team. Outside of the miserable QB issue, we lost a valuable transfer this year (EV), and we lost a starting LB for the season. Other than that, we're lost a back up DE and a backup safety. It sucks and it hurts this team, but almost all school have a comparable situation somewhere or another on their team.

I think BGIF mentioned them in this thread.

4 starters? I could Nix, Day, Tuitt, Carlo, Jackson, Farley, Russel, Shembo. That's 8.
I agree that the QB is the biggest issue in the world. But that's really the only area we should be licking our wounds for. The rest of the excuses/reasons are common to college football.

Well they're not fast.

We have a true freshman come in at nickel, and a true freshman at Dog (neither of which are hurting us on defense). Other than that in the secondary, Farley, Jackson, Russel are all returning starters. That's hardly inexperience, and our LBs (Shembo, Councel, Carlo, Grace) are definitely not inexperienced. This isn't the NFL where you play for 8 years.

No, I will say Never. Starting next year, Kelly will have Golson for 2 years, Malik for 4, and Kizer for 5. Even if Golson got hurt, he's had Malik in the system for 1.5 years starting next fall.

God I hope so. Remember that last game is Stanford.

Our running game is fine, but either Marting/BK aren't calling enough running plays IMO or Rees has to cool it on the audibles. We need to run more.

 

[woolybug25]

Hey Kuenja, answer me this... should this board be subjected to constant negativity about every single subject matter?

Do you think that a megadump of negativity should be the mantra of the board every season that we don't win a championship?

I told Pat to find another team because he expects this team to be Bama every single year for eternity. Bama isn't even Bama every year. If that is the type of excellence he demands, then his best bet is to just follow whatever team is hot, because no team can sustain that type of success. But that is Pat, he prefers to be miserable and to b!tch about anything possible. It's who he is and that type of discourse isn't why most of us come here. If that is what we were looking for in a ND site... we would all post on NDNation.

I also would prefer to not be your new Longo fascination, and seeing that every post you have made on this page has been about me, I kindly ask you to find another topic than what I feel about Pat. Leave that to us to discuss.

 

[koonja]

Hey Kuenja, answer me this... should this board be subjected to constant negativity about every single subject matter?

Do you think that a megadump of negativity should be the mantra of the board every season that we don't win a championship?

I told Pat to find another team because he expects this team to be Bama every single year for eternity. Bama isn't even Bama every year. If that is the type of excellence he demands, then his best bet is to just follow whatever team is hot, because no team can sustain that type of success.

I also would prefer to not be your knew Longo fascination, and seeing that every post you have made on this page has been about me, I kindly ask you to find another topic than what I feel about Pat. Leave that to us to discuss.

Look at what Irishinsanity said above my previous post. I 100% agree with his post, but I also think People that have a current negative perspective of the program, should ignore the message boards OR 'tread lightly' (wooly you won't get this because you're dumb and you don't watch Breaking Bad). So yes, I agree with you wooly.

Maybe you were being tongue in cheek and tried to prove a point by doing so, but I'd take offense if a fellow Irish fan told me to go route for someone else. To be honest, I couldn't even tell you why I'm a ND fan (I did not go to Notre Dame), but they've always been my favorite team since before middle school, NFL or college. Not sure why, but every year my love for ND grows. Point is, it's not like you can stop loving a team, even if they aren't doing things the way you like. This is probably moot because I think you were being sarcastic, so let's just drop it.

Funny, but I've made 2, now 3 posts on this thread. Don't flatter yourself, you're way below Longo on my list .

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Glad to see Keuhnja is still being Keuhnja.

Longo would be proud.

 

[koonja]

Glad to see Keuhnja is still being Keuhnja.

Longo would be proud.

What are you talking about? This is another bad and pointless post.

How many times do I have to beg you to drop the grudge from whatever it is that has the stick of your ***. Life goes on. Please stop stalking me on this site and commenting on anything you can find. I don't follow you through this site, what would be the point? Every time you do this, you look more and more pathetic.


But really, what is your point here? Anything? Or are you just looking to rekindle a previous fight?

If so, we're having a respectful, ND fan, gentlemans discussion here. Go find someone on the monkey bars to play with.

 

[irishfanjho15]

23-4 in last 27 regular season games.

IMHO that's not terrible. Or horrible.

 

[NDohio]

Sure. But asking someone to cool it and asking them find another team is way different.

I'm simply saying all teams are going through something, whether it's injuries, coaching changes, etc., and outside of Keil transferring and Golson becoming ineligible, there's really nothing surprising that doesn't happen to almost every other team. Outside of the miserable QB issue, we lost a valuable transfer this year (EV), and we lost a starting LB for the season. Other than that, we're lost a back up DE and a backup safety. It sucks and it hurts this team, but almost all school have a comparable situation somewhere or another on their team.

I think BGIF mentioned them in this thread.

4 starters? I could Nix, Day, Tuitt, Carlo, Jackson, Farley, Russel, Shembo. That's 8.
I agree that the QB is the biggest issue in the world. But that's really the only area we should be licking our wounds for. The rest of the excuses/reasons are common to college football.

Well they're not fast.

We have a true freshman come in at nickel, and a true freshman at Dog (neither of which are hurting us on defense). Other than that in the secondary, Farley, Jackson, Russel are all returning starters. That's hardly inexperience, and our LBs (Shembo, Councel, Carlo, Grace) are definitely not inexperienced. This isn't the NFL where you play for 8 years.

No, I will say Never. Starting next year, Kelly will have Golson for 2 years, Malik for 4, and Kizer for 5. Even if Golson got hurt, he's had Malik in the system for 1.5 years starting next fall.

God I hope so. Remember that last game is Stanford.

Our running game is fine, but either Marting/BK aren't calling enough running plays IMO or Rees has to cool it on the audibles. We need to run more.

And if our QB situation wasn't what it is, we would be 5-0 and having casual conversations about how the defense could get better but realize they are overcoming their injury/loss to the NFL situation.

 

[NDohio]

23-4 in last 27 regular season games.

IMHO that's not terrible. Or horrible.

Thats just not good enough!

 

[RDU Irish]

Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, football fans could feed the world.

If we avoid negative 3 on turnover margin the rest of the season we should be OK. I could stand to see us FORCE more turnovers and actually go positive on that TO margin. We knew going in that with Tommy at QB we had this risk and we should not throw the entire program under the bus because one of our big turnover games came against one of our better opponents this season.

 

[Grahambo]

QB play is the sole reason we have two losses. TR is not a dual threat QB and is not an All-American caliber pocket passer so it's easy to defend him. The problem stems from him continuing to do what he's done since his freshman year and that is making throws that he simply has no business making. His job is to take care of the football, not make huge plays; sorta how it was for Greg McElroy. He's failed at that and cost ND two wins.

 

[koonja]

And if our QB situation wasn't what it is, we would be 5-0 and having casual conversations about how the defense could get better but realize they are overcoming their injury/loss to the NFL situation.

QB play is the sole reason we have two losses. TR is not a dual threat QB and is not an All-American caliber pocket passer so it's easy to defend him. The problem stems from him continuing to do what he's done since his freshman year and that is making throws that he simply has no business making. His job is to take care of the football, not make huge plays; sorta how it was for Greg McElroy. He's failed at that and cost ND two wins.

Both of these are correct. We're not looking good on defense, but with Golson we'd move the chains enough to give the defense more time off and we'd also be scoring enough to keep up with Michigan/Oklahoma.

 

[RDU Irish]

IMHO, Tommy's turnovers stem as much from his inaccuracy as they do from poor decisions. Pre-snap he may be great, I just don't think the reaction time and accuracy is there post-snap. Anyone expecting Tommy to be the next Tom Brady was basing it more on hopes and prayers than logic anyway.

Elite QBs make up for tons of deficiencies. We knew we didn't have one so I think I am more disappointed than surprised that the coaching staff did not have a better plan to compensate.

 

[Grahambo]

Both of these are correct. We're not looking good on defense, but with Golson we'd move the chains enough to give the defense more time off and we'd also be scoring enough to keep up with Michigan/Oklahoma.

There have been several drives in both games when I thought EG would have extended the drive by scrambling/running. EG can also stretch the defense with his arm and would most definitely have kept both defenses honest. The best help to a young defense is the offense sustaining drives. Both games were winnable and EG would have made the difference.

As for the defense, they're inexperienced as far as their pre-snap reads. Sure, they have enough PT amongst themselves but the pre-snap reads were left to Motta, Te'o, and Kap who aren't here anymore. That's the problem. I've seen countless times where the defense has not only been positioned incorrectly but how many plays have we seen where they're all looking around at each other with arms shrugged?

If you're not gonna be lineup correctly then you need to have elite athleticism to overcome that mistake which is why I keep asking for PT for Max Redfield. He's the most athletic safety and should be getting his feet wet.

 

[kmoose]

QB play is the sole reason we have two losses.

At the risk of being further labelled a "Tommy jock hanger", are you kidding me? There is no "sole reason" for our two losses. Tommy has missed some throws that could have turned games around, but the defense has given up some ridiculously easy drives that could have made the difference, as well.

Late in the 3rd quarter of the Michigan game, ND scores a touchdown to cut Michigan's lead to 27-20. Michigan's ensuing drive covers 78 yards in 7 plays, for 7 points. Then comes Tuitt's pick 6, and an ND FG, to cut the Michigan lead to 34-30. The ensuing Michigan drive covers 75 yards in 10 plays, for a Michigan TD.

With 14:10 left in the game against Oklahoma, ND scores a TD to cut the score to 27-21. Oklahoma's next drive is a 5 play, 75 yard TD drive.

Those big drives after the offense cut the lead are killers. Especially the Oklahoma drive. Before the drive, a TD and an XP win the game for ND. After the drive, the offense has to try to score quickly, because they need two TDs. So they have to go to a low percentage deep passing game.

The offense, and Rees in particular, bear some responsibility for sure. But the QB position is not the "sole" reason for the two losses.

 

[Kanye West]

At the risk of being further labelled a "Tommy jock hanger", are you kidding me? There is no "sole reason" for our two losses. Tommy has missed some throws that could have turned games around, but the defense has given up some ridiculously easy drives that could have made the difference, as well.

Late in the 3rd quarter of the Michigan game, ND scores a touchdown to cut Michigan's lead to 27-20. Michigan's ensuing drive covers 78 yards in 7 plays, for 7 points. Then comes Tuitt's pick 6, and an ND FG, to cut the Michigan lead to 34-30. The ensuing Michigan drive covers 75 yards in 10 plays, for a Michigan TD.

With 14:10 left in the game against Oklahoma, ND scores a TD to cut the score to 27-21. Oklahoma's next drive is a 5 play, 75 yard TD drive.

Those big drives after the offense cut the lead are killers. Especially the Oklahoma drive. Before the drive, a TD and an XP win the game for ND. After the drive, the offense has to try to score quickly, because they need two TDs. So they have to go to a low percentage deep passing game.

The offense, and Rees in particular, bear some responsibility for sure. But the QB position is not the "sole" reason for the two losses.

It's O's fault they lost against Michigan and Oklahoma. The defense could/shoud have played better, but if ND doesn't go 2-5 against Michigan in the red zone they win. If they run the ball more they win. Against Oklahoma well 21 points off of turnovers is the O's fault more than the D's. Both losses are play calling losses, but who actually calls the plays Martin or Tommy Manning?

 

[kmoose]

It's O's fault they lost against Michigan and Oklahoma. The defense could/shoud have played better, but if ND doesn't go 2-5 against Michigan in the red zone they win. If they run the ball more they win. Against Oklahoma well 21 points off of turnovers is the O's fault more than the D's. Both losses are play calling losses, but who actually calls the plays Martin or Tommy Manning?

You're right. The hate for Tommy Rees obviously trumps the logic that football is a team game, and that people win or lose as a team. There's really no need for the defense to ever stop anyone, is there? After all, if the Offense just calls the right plays, and executes perfectly, they will score a TD on every possession.

 

[GowerND11]

It's O's fault they lost against Michigan and Oklahoma. The defense could/shoud have played better, but if ND doesn't go 2-5 against Michigan in the red zone they win. If they run the ball more they win. Against Oklahoma well 21 points off of turnovers is the O's fault more than the D's. Both losses are play calling losses, but who actually calls the plays Martin or Tommy Manning?

I disagree about the Michigan game. The defense forced two count them TWO stops all game. One punt and the Tuitt pick. If the DEFENSE steps up against Michigan, we don't put the ball in Tommy's hands, we run the ball more, and very effectively I might add, and chew the clock while potentially building a lead.

 

[NDohio]

Both of these are correct. We're not looking good on defense, but with Golson we'd move the chains enough to give the defense more time off and we'd also be scoring enough to keep up with Michigan/Oklahoma.

Great. Now let's allow this thread to die and not be calling for Kelly's head. At least not until he deserves it.

 

[Buster Bluth]

4 starters? I could Nix, Day, Tuitt, Carlo, Jackson, Farley, Russel, Shembo. That's 8.

Day didn't start, Lewis-Moore did. Farley isn't starting, Collinsworth is. Carlo wasnt the primary starter, Fox was. Tuitt is clearly recovering from an injury, so he is not his 2012 self.

So, it's kinda four.

 

[koonja]

Day didn't start, Lewis-Moore did. Farley isn't starting, Collinsworth is. Carlo wasnt the primary starter, Fox was. Tuitt is clearly recovering from an injury, so he is not his 2012 self.

So, it's kinda four.

Forgot that, you are right.

I honestly didn't know that because they both play so much this year.

So you basically have two returning, half-time returning starters (Fox and Calabrese). Since we're talking experience, I'd argue that is better than having one return with no experience, and one that started 13 games, but either way, I think it's safe to say between the two of them, their experience equates to at that of least one returning starter. But technically you are correct.

 

[Grahambo]

You're right. The hate for Tommy Rees obviously trumps the logic that football is a team game, and that people win or lose as a team. There's really no need for the defense to ever stop anyone, is there? After all, if the Offense just calls the right plays, and executes perfectly, they will score a TD on every possession.

Take away his ridiculous INT's and then how do the games look? Its why the QB position is the highest paid position. The guy has trouble taking care of the football. He takes care of the football and the season is looking a lot different.

This is just something we're gonna disagree on.