Very Post Game Observations (Michigan State) ....

ickythump1225

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My one big pet peeve with Tommy is he gets way too freaking cute sometimes with all of his wannabe Peyton Manning audibling at the line. SNAP THE FREAKING BALL. I swear we're up against the play clock almost every snap. Part of the reason I want no huddle/uptempo is you get lined up very quick so if you need to make an adjustment you have plenty of time.

If I have one real gripe with Tommy it's that.
 

Domer4ever

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Seriously, man... how long have you been watching college football? The players turn over way too often for a team to establish some kind of concrete identity in 4 years. What this team should be, and would be if Golson hadn't screwed the pooch, is a spread offense that runs inside very well.

How long have you been watching football? Any coach who has been at a program longer than a season or two is commonly able to at the very least implement a system of how they want their team to play football and forming an identity. They may not win, but by God they have a style of football ingrained in them that they will live and die by. This ND team has no identity on either side of the football and plays sporadic, undisciplined, sloppy football. Does anybody at this point in year four, know what kind of system Kelly is trying to run? It looks nothing like Cincinnati, and as far as I'm concerned the "QB genius" and "offensive guru" has looked anything but in his four years at ND. At the very least a head coach should have whatever his specialty is firing on all cylinders. Do you really think Golson makes all the check's and defensive reads at the line of scrimmage and make some of these plays Rees has been able to thusfar? The same Golson that was benched a number of times last season in favor of Rees? Tommy ain't great, but everybody excusing Kelly from any blame because he doesn't have "his guy" to run "his offense" are fools. This offense would look just as indecisive and unbalanced with Golson running the show.
 

Wild Bill

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How long have you been watching football? Any coach who has been at a program longer than a season or two is commonly able to at the very least implement a system of how they want their team to play football and forming an identity. They may not win, but by God they have a style of football ingrained in them that they will live and die by. This ND team has no identity on either side of the football and plays sporadic, undisciplined, sloppy football. Does anybody at this point in year four, know what kind of system Kelly is trying to run? It looks nothing like Cincinnati, and as far as I'm concerned the "QB genius" and "offensive guru" has looked anything but in his four years at ND. At the very least a head coach should have whatever his specialty is firing on all cylinders. Do you really think Golson makes all the check's and defensive reads at the line of scrimmage and make some of these plays Rees has been able to thusfar? The same Golson that was benched a number of times last season in favor of Rees? Tommy ain't great, but everybody excusing Kelly from any blame because he doesn't have "his guy" to run "his offense" are fools. This offense would look just as indecisive and unbalanced with Golson running the show.

The defensive philosophy is clear to me - bend but don't break. Keep everything in front of you, don't give up the big play and make them drive the field.

On offense, your guess is as good as mine.
 

kmoose

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How long have you been watching football?

About 40 years now.

Any coach who has been at a program longer than a season or two is commonly able to at the very least implement a system of how they want their team to play football and forming an identity. They may not win, but by God they have a style of football ingrained in them that they will live and die by. This ND team has no identity on either side of the football and plays sporadic, undisciplined, sloppy football. Does anybody at this point in year four, know what kind of system Kelly is trying to run?

Yes........... he is expecting the kids to play all 4 quarters, as they have. If you haven't noticed one major difference between Weis teams and Kelly teams, is that Kelly teams don't quit, then you haven't been paying ANY attention. Kelly will run a spread that fits the personnel he has. If he has tough inside runners, then he will spread them out and try to run the ball. If he has a scrambler who can sling it, then he will play pass happy.

It looks nothing like Cincinnati, and as far as I'm concerned the "QB genius" and "offensive guru" has looked anything but in his four years at ND. At the very least a head coach should have whatever his specialty is firing on all cylinders.

Who cares if it looks like Cincinnnati? This is Notre Dame, not Cincinnati. Your concern is duly noted, and has been filed in the appropriate repository. Kelly has taken a 3 star nobody, in Rees, and turned him into a very solid college QB. Is he going to set the world on fire? No. But he could barely complete a pass beyond 10 yards, two years ago. And he wasn't real particular about which color uniform he threw it to, either, at that time. Now the kid is slinging the rock, and very much appears to have his turnover troubles under control. Kelly could certainly be doing a better job with this team, but he sure as hell isn't doing a BAD job.

Do you really think Golson makes all the check's and defensive reads at the line of scrimmage and make some of these plays Rees has been able to thusfar? The same Golson that was benched a number of times last season in favor of Rees? Tommy ain't great, but everybody excusing Kelly from any blame because he doesn't have "his guy" to run "his offense" are fools.


I don't make that excuse. But I don't think, based on the previous part of my post, that we need to excuse Kelly's coaching. And certainly not based on your professional assessment of what a DI-A BCS caliber coach should be doing.

This offense would look just as indecisive and unbalanced with Golson running the show.

Unbalanced? Again, I wonder if you are really watching the games? Through 4 games, ND has run the ball 123 times, to 147 passes. That's a 55/45 pass/run split. That's hardly "unbalanced", but don't let the actual facts get in the way of your irrational concern.
 

NDisme

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Im sure this is a common and annoying Question but is there anywhere i can re-watch the game, NBCsports used to always do it but i cant find it there
 

WakeUpEchoes

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How long have you been watching football? Any coach who has been at a program longer than a season or two is commonly able to at the very least implement a system of how they want their team to play football and forming an identity. They may not win, but by God they have a style of football ingrained in them that they will live and die by. This ND team has no identity on either side of the football and plays sporadic, undisciplined, sloppy football. Does anybody at this point in year four, know what kind of system Kelly is trying to run? It looks nothing like Cincinnati, and as far as I'm concerned the "QB genius" and "offensive guru" has looked anything but in his four years at ND. At the very least a head coach should have whatever his specialty is firing on all cylinders. Do you really think Golson makes all the check's and defensive reads at the line of scrimmage and make some of these plays Rees has been able to thusfar? The same Golson that was benched a number of times last season in favor of Rees? Tommy ain't great, but everybody excusing Kelly from any blame because he doesn't have "his guy" to run "his offense" are fools. This offense would look just as indecisive and unbalanced with Golson running the show.

All time 202–69–2 record. That's what kind of system.

The last person I am questioning in this "jump off the ledge" season so far is Kelly.
 

pumpdog20

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About 40 years now.



Yes........... he is expecting the kids to play all 4 quarters, as they have. If you haven't noticed one major difference between Weis teams and Kelly teams, is that Kelly teams don't quit, then you haven't been paying ANY attention. Kelly will run a spread that fits the personnel he has. If he has tough inside runners, then he will spread them out and try to run the ball. If he has a scrambler who can sling it, then he will play pass happy.



Who cares if it looks like Cincinnnati? This is Notre Dame, not Cincinnati. Your concern is duly noted, and has been filed in the appropriate repository. Kelly has taken a 3 star nobody, in Rees, and turned him into a very solid college QB. Is he going to set the world on fire? No. But he could barely complete a pass beyond 10 yards, two years ago. And he wasn't real particular about which color uniform he threw it to, either, at that time. Now the kid is slinging the rock, and very much appears to have his turnover troubles under control. Kelly could certainly be doing a better job with this team, but he sure as hell isn't doing a BAD job.




I don't make that excuse. But I don't think, based on the previous part of my post, that we need to excuse Kelly's coaching. And certainly not based on your professional assessment of what a DI-A BCS caliber coach should be doing.



Unbalanced? Again, I wonder if you are really watching the games? Through 4 games, ND has run the ball 123 times, to 147 passes. That's a 55/45 pass/run split. That's hardly "unbalanced", but don't let the actual facts get in the way of your irrational concern.

I can understand those that disagree with the run/pass ratio, because the run number you quote are skewed by the fact that the last 2 games ended with all runs trying to run the clock.
 

kmoose

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I can understand those that disagree with the run/pass ratio, because the run number you quote are skewed by the fact that the last 2 games ended with all runs trying to run the clock.

They also ended in Ws, so complaining about them is kind of pointless.
 

stlnd01

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All time 202–69–2 record. That's what kind of system.

The last person I am questioning in this "jump off the ledge" season so far is Kelly.

Exactly. Why does a coach need "a system?" I agree he doesn't appear to have one, but I'm not sure why it matters.
Through three-plus years of watching Brian Kelly coach Notre Dame, it seems apparent that his offensive philosophy is to take what his players can do and what the opposing defense will give him and to win the game that day. I wish he'd commit a little more to the run. I wish he'd throw a bit more to the tight end (aside from Eifert last year). But, really, it's hard to argue with the results, especially given the uncertainty at QB for so much of his tenure.
 

IrishJayhawk

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I love it that we can have stupid arguments about play calling and strength training (and I do mean stupid arguments) after a win rather than after a loss.

That's on Kelly.
 

Emcee77

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I love it that we can have stupid arguments about play calling and strength training (and I do mean stupid arguments) after a win rather than after a loss.

That's on Kelly.

Ha I was just thinking the same thing. It's crazy how the boards have erupted with angry fans after WINS the last two weeks.

Not saying there aren't things to be concerned about ... The tone of the conversation seems a little off sometimes though. I mean, surprise, with the loss of our best QB to suspension, our best safety and ILB--both leaders and key communicators--to the NFL as early round draft picks, and another leader and captain to the NFL, we are not as good as last year. I was hoping we would be better this year too, but the fact that we aren't isn't utterly shocking to me. Mildly disappointing, sure, but not gross incompetence on the part of the coaches like some people seem to think.
 

irishog77

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You are a great guy but you fade on a detail on many of your posts.

The MAC is not a "crap conference." I think that is an baseless comment, therefore wholly assholish in nature.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dwXoYn3ZdbQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Good for you. Thanks for sharing.

The MAC is a crap conference.

And if you'd like, I can post videos of 8th graders dunking in basketball games to prove how awesome their Parochial League is compared to the ACC, Big East, Big Ten, Big XII or any other major college basketball conference.
 

Domer4ever

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About 40 years now.

Ditto for myself.

Yes........... he is expecting the kids to play all 4 quarters, as they have. If you haven't noticed one major difference between Weis teams and Kelly teams, is that Kelly teams don't quit, then you haven't been paying ANY attention. Kelly will run a spread that fits the personnel he has. If he has tough inside runners, then he will spread them out and try to run the ball. If he has a scrambler who can sling it, then he will play pass happy.

I'm not asking about effort, I'm asking what is this guy's plan for forming a particular way he wants to play football schematically? I mean it's only been four years. The fact is nobody can answer that because he let's other teams dictate how he calls a game instead of doing what he wants his team to do and make the other team adjust to what they do well. Sure, it's good strategy to an extent, but when you let it totally take you out of what you may do well it's failure. The fact is he has "tough inside runners" on the roster now and a QB with stone feet and he's playing "pass happy." They are playing completely opposite of the example you gave.

Speaking of Weis, watching Brian Kelly formulate a game plan and call plays makes me yearn for the Charlie Weis offense. You want to take cheap shots at him, well here is some food for thought; through 43 games at ND, Brian Kelly 31-12, Charlie Weis 26-17. That's a five game swing and Weis did it with far less talent and far worse facilities. Not to mention that Kelly doesn't sniff the championship game last year without that senior class Weis recruited.


Who cares if it looks like Cincinnnati? This is Notre Dame, not Cincinnati. Your concern is duly noted, and has been filed in the appropriate repository. Kelly has taken a 3 star nobody, in Rees, and turned him into a very solid college QB. Is he going to set the world on fire? No. But he could barely complete a pass beyond 10 yards, two years ago. And he wasn't real particular about which color uniform he threw it to, either, at that time. Now the kid is slinging the rock, and very much appears to have his turnover troubles under control. Kelly could certainly be doing a better job with this team, but he sure as hell isn't doing a BAD job.

At Cincinnati his offense had an identity, his offense at ND does not....that's why I brought it up. I'm betting the development of Tommy Rees has more to do with his maturation as a fifth year senior and the type of person he is more so then Kelly dropping red faced F-bombs on him from the sidelines any time the team goes three and out. Just speculation though, your guess is as good as mine.


I don't make that excuse. But I don't think, based on the previous part of my post, that we need to excuse Kelly's coaching. And certainly not based on your professional assessment of what a DI-A BCS caliber coach should be doing.

Oh come on, you are pretty good at those excuses! Also, your continual attempts to belittle me are really quite comical being that your opinion on things hold no more water than my own.

Unbalanced? Again, I wonder if you are really watching the games? Through 4 games, ND has run the ball 123 times, to 147 passes. That's a 55/45 pass/run split. That's hardly "unbalanced", but don't let the actual facts get in the way of your irrational concern.

Again, the run attempts number is skewed because of trying to milk clock in garbage time against Temple and Purdue, but hey let's not let actual facts get in the way of your irrational homerism.
 

ickythump1225

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Exactly. Why does a coach need "a system?" I agree he doesn't appear to have one, but I'm not sure why it matters.
Through three-plus years of watching Brian Kelly coach Notre Dame, it seems apparent that his offensive philosophy is to take what his players can do and what the opposing defense will give him and to win the game that day. I wish he'd commit a little more to the run. I wish he'd throw a bit more to the tight end (aside from Eifert last year). But, really, it's hard to argue with the results, especially given the uncertainty at QB for so much of his tenure.
But if the run isn't working he shouldn't over commit to it. I mean everyone would be screaming bloody murder and talking about how inept the playcalling is...and...questioning whether Kelly should even be the coach or is the right fit for Notre Dame if he kept running when it wasn't working. Oh wait...we're doing that anyway I forgot.
 

ickythump1225

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Again, the run attempts number is skewed because of trying to milk clock in garbage time against Temple and Purdue, but hey let's not let actual facts get in the way of your irrational homerism.
You mean the last two games that we....wait for it....WON?! My god I've never seen a fanbase so upset after wins. I'll take ugly wins over beautiful losses every single time. I live in Georgia about 45 minutes from Athens so I'm thoroughly in the heart of Bulldawg nation and they had two beautiful losses recently (Alabama and Clemson) and trust me they'd trade their beautiful losses for 17-13 grinding victories.

Perhaps BK is just a pragmatist who fits his system to the personnel he has and not the other way around. Do you know how many fanbases can would kill to have won 15 of 17 and 10 home games in a row? I also cheer for the Gophers because I'm a native Minnesotan and trust me Gopher fans wouldn't mind winning every game 3-2 if it meant they got to win 12 games last season and go the MNC.
 

T Town Tommy

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You mean the last two games that we....wait for it....WON?! My god I've never seen a fanbase so upset after wins. I'll take ugly wins over beautiful losses every single time. I live in Georgia about 45 minutes from Athens so I'm thoroughly in the heart of Bulldawg nation and they had two beautiful losses recently (Alabama and Clemson) and trust me they'd trade their beautiful losses for 17-13 grinding victories.

Perhaps BK is just a pragmatist who fits his system to the personnel he has and not the other way around. Do you know how many fanbases can would kill to have won 15 of 17 and 10 home games in a row? I also cheer for the Gophers because I'm a native Minnesotan and trust me Gopher fans wouldn't mind winning every game 3-2 if it meant they got to win 12 games last season and go the MNC.

While I agree an ugly win is still a win, there is a danger in dismissing the things the Irish must correct in order to be able to compete and beat better teams than MSU. Not saying you are or other posters are either but there was so much wrong with the Irish Saturday that it can't be dismissed as simply ugly. After watching my team play this weekend and gain nothing more than an ugly win, I came to the conclusion that they will not beat upper echelon teams such as LSU - and maybe even middling Ole Miss next week - unless they start fixing those issues that plague them. Case in point is the defense. While it is apparent they are starting to figure some things out, they are still not consistent enough in order to rise up and beat much better teams than they played Saturday. And just because they have won a couple of crystal balls means nothing for this year's team. I am confident in the coaching staff and that they will do what it takes to fix those issues. I am also confident in Kelly and his staff to do the same. But I do know it will take a much, much better effort from both teams this Saturday to walk away with wins.
 

Domer4ever

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You mean the last two games that we....wait for it....WON?! My god I've never seen a fanbase so upset after wins. I'll take ugly wins over beautiful losses every single time. I live in Georgia about 45 minutes from Athens so I'm thoroughly in the heart of Bulldawg nation and they had two beautiful losses recently (Alabama and Clemson) and trust me they'd trade their beautiful losses for 17-13 grinding victories.

Perhaps BK is just a pragmatist who fits his system to the personnel he has and not the other way around. Do you know how many fanbases can would kill to have won 15 of 17 and 10 home games in a row? I also cheer for the Gophers because I'm a native Minnesotan and trust me Gopher fans wouldn't mind winning every game 3-2 if it meant they got to win 12 games last season and go the MNC.

Nobody is complaining about winning, just making some general discussion regarding Kelly and some of the problems with the team currently as it's unlikely the team will have continued success with the way they have played. Again winning is the best deodorant because this team has stunk for much of the season. I think most of us see trouble on the horizon, and that's not being a pessimist it's just calling things for what they are.
 

ARALOU

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Trust me, Tennessee would take an ugly win over anybody. They just had their worst beat down in a hundred years. Stay calm everybody.
 

ARALOU

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LOL, now now, I like Phil. I think he got the shaft. UT hasn't done **** since they ran him out of town. I hate UT fans. But I used to love going up there and watching games. Especially back in the 90s, and especially when they got a taste of the Rocket. Bout got my *** whipped at that game. I pissed off 100k rednecks.
 
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kmoose

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I'm not asking about effort, I'm asking what is this guy's plan for forming a particular way he wants to play football schematically? I mean it's only been four years. The fact is nobody can answer that because he let's other teams dictate how he calls a game instead of doing what he wants his team to do and make the other team adjust to what they do well. Sure, it's good strategy to an extent, but when you let it totally take you out of what you may do well it's failure. The fact is he has "tough inside runners" on the roster now and a QB with stone feet and he's playing "pass happy." They are playing completely opposite of the example you gave.

Speaking of Weis, watching Brian Kelly formulate a game plan and call plays makes me yearn for the Charlie Weis offense. You want to take cheap shots at him, well here is some food for thought; through 43 games at ND, Brian Kelly 31-12, Charlie Weis 26-17. That's a five game swing and Weis did it with far less talent and far worse facilities. Not to mention that Kelly doesn't sniff the championship game last year without that senior class Weis recruited.

His way of playing, schematically, is going to change based on what his personnel are. Last year, we had two very good Senior tailbacks, in Riddick and Wood, so we ran the ball quite a bit (506 rushing attempts to 388 passing attempts). This year, the tailback situation was very much up in the air, coming into the season. But you have an experienced Senior QB returning, who by all accounts certainly appears to have improved arm strength. He is still not mobile, but coming into the season, he is more of a complete package than any of your tailbacks are. So we start the season throwing more than running. Gee, that makes sense. You want Kelly to have some kind of rigid system in place, and force players to fit into the system. News Flash: most successful college coaches have a base system that they tailor to the strengths of their personnel. Kelly wants to run an uptempo spread. But he's smart enough not to try to force some rigid system onto players that are not well suited for it.

If you think I am taking a cheap shot at Weis, or have anything other than great respect for him, then you are VERY wrong. I always supported Weis. But the fact remains that his teams quit in more than one game.
 

returnofthemack

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While I agree an ugly win is still a win, there is a danger in dismissing the things the Irish must correct in order to be able to compete and beat better teams than MSU. Not saying you are or other posters are either but there was so much wrong with the Irish Saturday that it can't be dismissed as simply ugly. After watching my team play this weekend and gain nothing more than an ugly win, I came to the conclusion that they will not beat upper echelon teams such as LSU - and maybe even middling Ole Miss next week - unless they start fixing those issues that plague them. Case in point is the defense. While it is apparent they are starting to figure some things out, they are still not consistent enough in order to rise up and beat much better teams than they played Saturday. And just because they have won a couple of crystal balls means nothing for this year's team. I am confident in the coaching staff and that they will do what it takes to fix those issues. I am also confident in Kelly and his staff to do the same. But I do know it will take a much, much better effort from both teams this Saturday to walk away with wins.

Truth. Do you guys really think anybody would be complaining if we beat michigan or Oklahoma or Stanford in an ugly game? Hell no. But when you're playing poorly and squeaking out wins against Purdue (got rocked by Wisconsin) and MSU (Western Michigan and South Florida held them to about the same offensive output as we did) there are severe problems that need to be fixed.
 

TheSunIsRising

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Phil knows nothing about that which you speak of.

Now, technically, Phil declined knowledge of the money, he never did say he never brought the food. Heck, even if there were NCAA violations committed for bringing the tacos, Phil would consider them to be less than minor: 50 tacos was like an afternoon snack, right?!?!
 

Fbolt

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Rees had his first poor game of the season and anticipate a better performance next week.

Run blocking was not where it needs to be. Hoping that the OL remembers what its like to impose their will late in games. Happened last year again OU-maybe the same thing this year?

The RB position is still a work in progress. Amir seemed to still be in the doghouse. Wonder who Bryant ticked off?

Nice game from Corey and Jaylon.

I'll take the "W".
 
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