We are slow, Longo must go?

[irishpat183]

Have a good friend that is a head coach at a High School here in TN. He went to the Alabama coaching clinic this past year and Mike Joseph was there (director of strength and conditioning for WVU Mountaneers). Said friend was asking what he could do to improve the speed of his players and Mr Joseph told him nothing... He said kids are fast or they are not. He said in the amount of time you have to work with them, you may be able to squeeze .03 off their 40 times. He said you can do a little better with footwork and lateral movement but overall kids are either fast or slow from the womb.

I agree with this. You're born with speed.

Not that SandC coaches can't make you a better player/athlete...but you either got it or you don't when it comes to pure speed.

If this is the case, we need to recruit faster players. It seems we're a little generous with our compliments about how fast our players are, no?

Teams like Temple, Purdue, BC, BYU....Should NOT be running with us. Especially with the, appearent, disparity in recruiting classes.


So something is missing here.

 

[koonja]

Are you really calling well respected users out and calling the embarrassing for this site?

Do me a favor and look at the user "star rating" for this thread.

I'll answer it for you.
It's a one star "terrible" thread.

I have never, ever caused problems on this site. The posters you've mentioned haven't had problems.
Yet, multiple people have asked you many times to calm down.

Why is it multiple people are responding the same way as me? Are we conspiring against you?
No.

We all, independently, have been finding you as a recent annoyance.

You are calling for mods to ban me.

Really? Ban me for explaining my frustration? It's our frustration. It's not just this thread.

You're not a mod, I'm not a mod.
I'm just asking you to relax.
I never have a problem with you in the past, but now it's getting more and more out of hand.

Call me out, I'm fine with that. I'm calling you out. I expect retaliation.

But please, don't bring other respectful posters into this.

Just pointing out your words in this thread. And yes, they're immature, insulting, and embarrassing for this site. I've never insulted you, yet you, ThePiombi, and NDPhilly took tough guy shots at me. Read your words.

Lol, 95% of threads don't even get a 'star rating' regardless of how good/bad they are. 'The Post Game' Thread, 'Breaking Bad' thread don't even have a star rating... So by your reasoning they're among the worst threads on the site, which simply is NOT true.

I couldn't tell you. I would guess you just need a place to be tough, and this is your platform, unfortunately.

Absolutely. The things you've put on here shouldn't be allowed, IMO.

Not banning for your frustration, but for your poor lack of etiquette and disrespect for other posters.

For my questioning of our S/C coach? I'm fine with that. But drop the tough guy posts, the insults, and try to add to the discussion.


Ever notice how I get into discussions, but I never insult someone even when I completely disagree? That's called being an adult and respectful. Yet I take grenades from you and the others, and I have the problem? Lol.

 

[irishpat183]

I suppose, but I don't think these other schools that repetitively get top 10 recruiting classes lower their expectations.. why should we be any different? It would be unacceptable for them, and if we want to be on that level, it should be unacceptable for us.. unless we just wanna lie down for everyone and accept our fate as a middling top 25 squad that recruits competitively but can't develop the talent

Great call. Alabama has top recruiting classes every year....and their performance backs it up.

So what is wrong with us? Are we over rating our recruits, or are we failing to develop them?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I understand your point, but I hope the Weis era is not our measuring stick.

Good point. Let's use the Willingham era... I mean the Davie era...

Wait...

 

[irishpat183]

2005-2009: 35-27

2010-2013: 30-12

the entire coaching staff should be fired.

Proof in pudding.

This is college football.

How many rings and BCS wins??

Yeah, proof is in the pudding.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Great call. Alabama has top recruiting classes every year....and their performance backs it up.

So what is wrong with us? Are we over rating our recruits, or are we failing to develop them?

We had a top 5 defense, blew out a few inferior teams, beat OU and Stanford (two legitimately elite teams), and played in the national championship game.

What the hell is wrong with us?

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

Great call. Alabama has top recruiting classes every year....and their performance backs it up.

So what is wrong with us? Are we over rating our recruits, or are we failing to develop them?

Both.. we gush over every 3* guy we get and say he should definitely be a 4*.. then with every 4* we get, they should def be a 5*, etc.. it seems like we never get an overrated recruit...

Secondly, I don't think the coaching staff allows the players to play naturally.. too much thinking, not enough instincts and making plays.. too robotic and systematic..

but that's just my take.. also, idk how to put it other than the way that one coach did in that interview, but we need more black guys.. to me, that's not racist because it's a compliment.. they're fast.. we need more of them to compete with the top guys.. I don't see too many white LBs or safeties on the top top teams.. a few here and there, but not as many as we have.. again, just my take

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

We had a top 5 defense, blew out a few inferior teams, beat OU and Stanford (two legitimately elite teams), and played in the national championship game.

What the hell is wrong with us?

we don't pass the eyeball test.. there's no way in hell we can compete with the Bama's, Oregon's, Clemson's, etc.. sure, our record might be there, but we are a far inferior squad.. squeaking out wins against terrible teams may be fine for the short term (one season), but to me, it's indicative of a larger problem for sustained success over multiple years..

 

[irishpat183]

We had a top 5 defense, blew out a few inferior teams, beat OU and Stanford (two legitimately elite teams), and played in the national championship game.

What the hell is wrong with us?

We had a LOT of things go our way last year. To dismiss that would be naive.

I agree with you, we had a great year. Nobody is disputing that. But it's as if you have blinders on. Look what happened when we played Bama?? I'm sorry, but Stanford is no Bama.

What happened in the Pitt game? Or BC?

Why is it always a near heart attack with this team? And then once the lights come on, like scUM or any bowl game, we stubble?

 

[irishpat183]

Both.. we gush over every 3* guy we get and say he should definitely be a 4*.. then with every 4* we get, they should def be a 5*, etc.. it seems like we never get an overrated recruit...

Secondly, I don't think the coaching staff allows the players to play naturally.. too much thinking, not enough instincts and making plays.. too robotic and systematic..

but that's just my take.. also, idk how to put it other than the way that one coach did in that interview, but we need more black guys.. to me, that's not racist because it's a compliment.. they're fast.. we need more of them to compete with the top guys.. I don't see too many white LBs or safeties on the top top teams.. a few here and there, but not as many as we have.. again, just my take

So annoying. I read those posts and laugh at those posters.


And you're a racist. LOL

 

[IrishLax]

I suppose, but I don't think these other schools that repetitively get top 10 recruiting classes lower their expectations.. why should we be any different? It would be unacceptable for them, and if we want to be on that level, it should be unacceptable for us.. unless we just wanna lie down for everyone and accept our fate as a middling top 25 squad that recruits competitively but can't develop the talent

Great call. Alabama has top recruiting classes every year....and their performance backs it up.

So what is wrong with us? Are we over rating our recruits, or are we failing to develop them?

I already posted this earlier in this thread but...

We've only signed two ILBs since Kelly started recruiting in '11. That's right... two. That is where the issue is. In this scheme you have to start two ILBs yet we've only signed 2 players to fit the scheme in 3 years? Get the f*ck out of here.

That's a gigantic blunder. That would be like recruiting 1 RB in 3 years. It leaves no margin for error whatsoever. So short of Grace being much better than his high 3 billing OR being able to move someone to ILB like we did for CB when we had a recruiting deficiency OR Deeb being ready to play one of the most mental positions on the field as a true freshman... we were going to have issues at ILB.

The bottom line is that our recruiting is NOT as good as people think it is. Most of the high talent that got the classes lofty rankings has failed to stick. If you went back and normalized for the transfers in '11 and '12 we'd have very mediocre classes. In fact, the '12 class would be downright terrible in some respects. We're also playing with a TON of open scholarships... basically self-sanctioning.

The holes on D that we currently have + the holes that we will have when Nix, etc. leave are the result of poor recruiting and play retention. The holes at QB are the result of poor recruiting and player retention. Basically every single problem this team has you can trace back to:
1. A recruiting deficiency.
2. A player retention problem.

So let's not kid ourselves that we're recruiting like a powerhouse. It's not happening at all. And the lack of JUCOs makes it impossible to address these holes as they pop up through transfers, late defections, etc.

 

[kmoose]

I suppose, but I don't think these other schools that repetitively get top 10 recruiting classes lower their expectations.. why should we be any different? It would be unacceptable for them, and if we want to be on that level, it should be unacceptable for us.. unless we just wanna lie down for everyone and accept our fate as a middling top 25 squad that recruits competitively but can't develop the talent

Brady Quinn and Golden Tate weren't developed at ND?

ND went to the NCG, last year. Since then, we have lost our two leading rushers, an All-American Tight End, our starting QB, our All-American MLB, and most of the leaders on defense (KLM, Teo, Motta) from last year. And this team can still win 10 games. It will take some bounces going their way, and they can't do it playing like Saturday night every week. But they can get better as the season progresses, and possibly win 10 games. WTF else do you people want? This isn't the f'in SEC, PAC-10, or B1G, where your program can regularly ignore recruiting rules, practice rules, and amateurism rules.

 

[BobD]

Diaco needs to understand that "Bend but don't break" eventally is going to break. Especially when you don't have the talent to play that style of D.

What style would you suggest?

"Bend don't break" gives up the middle of the field to consolidate your defense into a smaller space, making it easier to defend, especially with less talented players.

 

[sharksamardzija8345]

So annoying. I read those posts and laugh at those posters.


And you're a racist. LOL

lol they played the angle of that coach being a racist, and I just don't get it.. I know I'm not racist, you know, don't need anyone telling me I am or am not, I know where I stand, but you just can't say things like that although perhaps a few of us think the same thing every game while watching our defense.. Idk, didn't mean to stir up the pot too much with that comment, and I suppose it did, but it's annoying that it does because it's a compliment on their god given ability to be fast

 

[koonja]

I already posted this earlier in this thread but...

We've only signed two ILBs since Kelly started recruiting in '11. That's right... two. That is where the issue is. In this scheme you have to start two ILBs yet we've only signed 2 players to fit the scheme in 3 years? Get the f*ck out of here.

That's a gigantic blunder. That would be like recruiting 1 RB in 3 years. It leaves no margin for error whatsoever. So short of Grace being much better than his high 3 billing OR being able to move someone to ILB like we did for CB when we had a recruiting deficiency OR Deeb being ready to play one of the most mental positions on the field as a true freshman... we were going to have issues at ILB.

The bottom line is that our recruiting is NOT as good as people think it is. Most of the high talent that got the classes lofty rankings has failed to stick. If you went back and normalized for the transfers in '11 and '12 we'd have very mediocre classes. In fact, the '12 class would be downright terrible in some respects. We're also playing with a TON of open scholarships... basically self-sanctioning.

The holes on D that we currently have + the holes that we will have when Nix, etc. leave are the result of poor recruiting and play retention. The holes at QB are the result of poor recruiting and player retention. Basically every single problem this team has you can trace back to:
1. A recruiting deficiency.
2. A player retention problem.

So let's not kid ourselves that we're recruiting like a powerhouse. It's not happening at all. And the lack of JUCOs makes it impossible to address these holes as they pop up through transfers, late defections, etc.

That's a very good point. We'd probably be ~ 25 for those classes.

Seriously, with how soft our middle looks, what is it going to be like when Nix isn't there to soak up two OL every play? Our LBS should be having a field day with Nix demanding a double. Tuitt should be, too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

we don't pass the eyeball test.. there's no way in hell we can compete with the Bama's, Oregon's, Clemson's, etc.. sure, our record might be there, but we are a far inferior squad.. squeaking out wins against terrible teams may be fine for the short term (one season), but to me, it's indicative of a larger problem for sustained success over multiple years..

And Stanford? Oklahoma?

I'm not saying we're elite. But we've won something like 14 of 16 and have beaten some fine programs. But that's just what I've seen with my eyeballs...

 

[koonja]

And Stanford? Oklahoma?

I'm not saying we're elite. But we've won something like 14 of 16 and have beaten some fine programs. But that's just what I've seen with my eyeballs...

Stanford is one team whose S/C program I'd like to see. They're doing the most with the least in regards to 'stars' IMO.

 

[Cackalacky]

I already posted this earlier in this thread but...

We've only signed two ILBs since Kelly started recruiting in '11. That's right... two. That is where the issue is. In this scheme you have to start two ILBs yet we've only signed 2 players to fit the scheme in 3 years? Get the f*ck out of here.

That's a gigantic blunder. That would be like recruiting 1 RB in 3 years. It leaves no margin for error whatsoever. So short of Grace being much better than his high 3 billing OR being able to move someone to ILB like we did for CB when we had a recruiting deficiency OR Deeb being ready to play one of the most mental positions on the field as a true freshman... we were going to have issues at ILB.

The bottom line is that our recruiting is NOT as good as people think it is. Most of the high talent that got the classes lofty rankings has failed to stick. If you went back and normalized for the transfers in '11 and '12 we'd have very mediocre classes. In fact, the '12 class would be downright terrible in some respects. We're also playing with a TON of open scholarships... basically self-sanctioning.

The holes on D that we currently have + the holes that we will have when Nix, etc. leave are the result of poor recruiting and play retention. The holes at QB are the result of poor recruiting and player retention. Basically every single problem this team has you can trace back to:
1. A recruiting deficiency.
2. A player retention problem.

So let's not kid ourselves that we're recruiting like a powerhouse. It's not happening at all. And the lack of JUCOs makes it impossible to address these holes as they pop up through transfers, late defections, etc.

All of this. # NDFootballproblems.

I was watching the Bama and A&M game and there was a receiver (his name escapes me) but he had a TD and was productive. Maybe it was a RB, IDK...point is the announcers were saying he came from the scout team and had been playing against the 1st team defense. They said he had won the respect of the 1st team D so Saban gave him some touches. What does he do... burns A&M. He came from the scout team LOL.

Maybe TTT can expand but that made me nauseous when I heard that. We can't figure out where to play our RBs and WRs without being predictable yet Bama can plug in a guy from the scout team to play in their biggest game of the year.

 

[koonja]

All of this. # NDFootballproblems.

I was watching the Bama and A&M game and there was a receiver (his name escapes me) but he had a TD and was productive. Maybe it was a RB, IDK...point is the announcers were saying he came from the scout team and had been playing against the 1st team defense. They said he had won the respect of the 1st team D so Saban gave him some touches. What does he do... burns A&M. He came from the scout team LOL.

Maybe TTT can expand but that made me nauseous when I heard that. We can't figure out where to play our RBs and WRs without being predictable yet Bama can plug in a guy from the scout team to play in their biggest game of the year.

I THINK you're talking about #17, Drake, RB. He did look like very physical.

This is an example of what I'm talking about. Other teams that are recruiting similarly to us (granted, Bama has been better in the past few years, but we're in the ball park), have athletes everywhere, all of the way through special teams and even the scout team and this is a down year for Alabama! Sure we have some great athletes, but top to bottom, it's not even close. That's why I question our S/C program and if Longo's falling behind. And it's not just Alabama, FSU/Georgia/Ole Miss all have better athletes, top to bottom than us IMO.

Official Football Roster - ROLLTIDE.COM - University of Alabama Official Athletic Site

 

[BobD]

Stanford is one team whose S/C program I'd like to see. They're doing the most with the least in regards to 'stars' IMO.

The Stanford area is chock full of beautiful women, many of them are runners/joggers so ya have to be fast.

 

[NDohio]

Serious question. How much of the speed that we see from some "guestionable" programs is a result of doping?

 

[Irishbounty28]

Have a good friend that is a head coach at a High School here in TN. He went to the Alabama coaching clinic this past year and Mike Joseph was there (director of strength and conditioning for WVU Mountaneers). Said friend was asking what he could do to improve the speed of his players and Mr Joseph told him nothing... He said kids are fast or they are not. He said in the amount of time you have to work with them, you may be able to squeeze .03 off their 40 times. He said you can do a little better with footwork and lateral movement but overall kids are either fast or slow from the womb.

I would say that this portion of your statement ties into what I was stating earlier that time is a factor in strength and conditioning. Being that time is limited, it is probably very hard to increase an individuals speed and/or quickness. I do know that it is fairly evident that speed can be increased through training. Granted you are not going to take a lower tier athlete, and turn them into an olympic sprinter. This is what I believe Mike Joseph was referring to, when stating kids are either fast or they are not.

I have seen individuals increase their 40 time by .3 through strength and development, coupled with running technique. The problem with this is that speed on the field has a ton to do with reaction time, as you are constantly reacting to a play and moving towards it. This is why it is hard to see speed translate to the field, because most peoples reaction time can only be improved upon 10 to 20%. Average reaction time is .3 seconds, which would mean an increase would be highly unnoticeable.

 

[irishpat183]

And Stanford? Oklahoma?

I'm not saying we're elite. But we've won something like 14 of 16 and have beaten some fine programs. But that's just what I've seen with my eyeballs...

You keep pointing to those two games...OU isn't the OU of old. They only beat one ranked team last year, UT (who was terrible).

And Stanford has been on fire. I'll give you that. I admire their program.

 

[IrishLax]

Serious question. How much of the speed that we see from some "guestionable" programs is a result of doping?

Lots. USC was juicing out of its mind under Carroll.

 

[Buster Bluth]

That's a very good point. We'd probably be ~ 25 for those classes.

Seriously, with how soft our middle looks, what is it going to be like when Nix isn't there to soak up two OL every play? Our LBS should be having a field day with Nix demanding a double. Tuitt should be, too.

hUH?

 

[koonja]

hUH?

I'm talking about our middle after the DL (i.e., ILBs). Sorry, should have clarified.

 

[Cackalacky]

I THINK you're talking about #17, Drake, RB. He did look like very physical.

This is an example of what I'm talking about. Other teams that are recruiting similarly to us (granted, Bama has been better in the past few years, but we're in the ball park), have athletes everywhere, all of the way through special teams and even the scout team and this is a down year for Alabama! Sure we have some great athletes, but top to bottom, it's not even close. That's why I question our S/C program and if Longo's falling behind. And it's not just Alabama, FSU/Georgia/Ole Miss all have better athletes, top to bottom than us IMO.

Official Football Roster - ROLLTIDE.COM - University of Alabama Official Athletic Site

I think what you are not getting is that ND football players have a **** ton more responsibility that most other schools. Just go and watch "Strong and True." Our guys have an academic adviser harassing them every day on their assignments and makes sure they are on track. I see tweets by our ND football players all the time talking about the level of school work they have to do (unlike playin at skool). They obviously don't have time to take weightlifting 400 and Golf 350 like Purdue's QB.

ND is different and special, and guys come here for that. If you (them) can't handle it, then IDK what to tell anyone, fan or player. No S/C coach can change that other than maximize their time while they are together.

You should re-read IrishLax's post that I quoted. It identified all of the major issues you are complaining about. None of which has anything to do with Longo.

BTW, this thread is a gutterball.

 

[GoIrish41]

Last year we beat Purdue by 3, BYU by 3, Pittsburgh by 3 (OT), an aweful BC by 15, and a struggling USC by 9. All inferior teams who we should have stomped and didn't.

This year, we have one game when we don't wipe the floor with an opponent who everyone things isn't good and all of the sudden we are miserable. This whole thread is just comical. We won the game! The game after BYU last year we came out and just spanked Oklahoma. We had an off week and still managed a win. Why is everyone so disgusted? I hope I don't have to hear all this whining the entire season.

 

[T Town Tommy]

All of this. # NDFootballproblems.

I was watching the Bama and A&M game and there was a receiver (his name escapes me) but he had a TD and was productive. Maybe it was a RB, IDK...point is the announcers were saying he came from the scout team and had been playing against the 1st team defense. They said he had won the respect of the 1st team D so Saban gave him some touches. What does he do... burns A&M. He came from the scout team LOL.

Maybe TTT can expand but that made me nauseous when I heard that. We can't figure out where to play our RBs and WRs without being predictable yet Bama can plug in a guy from the scout team to play in their biggest game of the year.

The player is Kenyon Drake. Great rb who is trying to get back up into the regular rb rotation. Good to see him out there Saturday making some plays.

 

[Cackalacky]

Last year we beat Purdue by 3, BYU by 3, Pittsburgh by 3 (OT), an aweful BC by 15, and a struggling USC by 9. All inferior teams who we should have stomped and didn't.

This year, we have one game when we don't wipe the floor with an opponent who everyone things isn't good and all of the sudden we are miserable. This whole thread is just comical. We won the game! The game after BYU last year we came out and just spanked Oklahoma. We had an off week and still managed a win. Why is everyone so disgusted? I hope I don't have to hear all this whining the entire season.

I think everyone was anticipating the Defense to be better all throughout the offseason and that it was just a fact that we finally had depth along the lines and we would finally be able to plug in some high profile recruits. Then we had the offseason and lost Spond, Springman, transfers, and Golson goes bye bye.

I think more people were concerned with our offense after fall camp and expected the D to be better just by default. Then the Temple game which was explained away as a vanilla offense and tepid defense (not showing anything). Then the Michigan game where everyone's hopes for the defense were dashed against the rocks or explained away as being beat by a worldbeater and that we would be "just fine." Then comes Purdue who got trashed by Cincinnati and struggled to beat another inferior team and holds us off till the 4th quarter.

I don't think we have had an off week necessarily but it is more of the denial of the percieved reality and an acceptance of an objective analysis of what is really going on.

Our defense is just not good. We have no leadership, our depth is not that deep, and our scheme is allowing our weakness to become liabilities.