Oct 5 | Arizona State

[ACamp1900]

Wow

 

[Bishop2b5]

Refs blew it. Should've been a delay of game on ASU for the player who just laid on the ball, keeping the refs from setting it. Wisconsin got royally screwed there.

 

[Kak7304]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/D-ELRub8n7s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Kak7304]

Refs blew it. Should've been a delay of game on ASU for the player who just laid on the ball, keeping the refs from setting it. Wisconsin got royally screwed there.

But was that a fumble? He just laid the ball on the ground. Didn't kneel, didn't spike it. Just laid it on the ground.

 

[koonja]

Wisconsin played their 2 minute offense and they made the plays. They were in 'time management' mode, and in position for a ~35 yard field goal; they were no longer trying to get 1st downs, just move the ball to the center and kick it, and they should have had enough time.

Edit: Video probably displayss it.

 

[ACamp1900]

Screw. Job.

Though take a knee and hand the ball to the ref.... Prob solved.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I'm just so angry right now I really can't think straight. I hate all referees.

 

[Bishop2b5]

But was that a fumble? He just laid the ball on the ground. Didn't kneel, didn't spike it. Just laid it on the ground.

I thought so too, but announcers said it was legal as the qb "gave himself up." Never heard that one, but apparently that's the rule.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

But was that a fumble? He just laid the ball on the ground. Didn't kneel, didn't spike it. Just laid it on the ground.

Watch the video again. He does go to one knee albeit quickly.

 

[koonja]

Watch the video again. He does go to one knee albeit quickly.

I honestly didn't think he did and I've seen it 5 times.

 

[Kak7304]

Watch the video again. He does go to one knee albeit quickly.

I disagree.

 

[BGIF]

Refs blew it. Should've been a delay of game on ASU for the player who just laid on the ball, keeping the refs from setting it. Wisconsin got royally screwed there.

In that replay tha Kak provided, the QB was not tackled, nor did he take a knee, nor did he spike the ball. He voluntarily placed the ball on the carpet which strikes me as an unforced fumble.

Did the ref blow a whistle killing the play? Or did those ASU players jump on a live ball?

Regardless it tough to justify a delay of game penalty for the defense when the QB has his back to the LOS arguing with the ref while the clock is ticking. He could have killed the clock with a spike but HIS choice of action kept the game clock going.

I be interested in a cite, by anyone, of a rule showing the clock stops when a player voluntarily places the ball on the ground (except when such action advances the ball sufficient for a 1st Down).

 

[NDWorld247]

Screw. Job.

Though take a knee and hand the ball to the ref.... Prob solved.

This. I think Wisconsin got screwed, but I'm not so sure. They could have avoided this situation by kneeling, handing the ball to the ref and showing some urgency to get off the spike. I don't think anyone (Wisconsin and the refs) handled the end of that game very well.

 

[koonja]

In that replay tha Kak provided, the QB was not tackled, nor did he take a knee, nor did he spike the ball. He voluntarily placed the ball on the carpet which strikes me as an unforced fumble.

Did the ref blow a whistle killing the play? Or did those ASU players jump on a live ball?

Regardless it tough to justify a delay of game penalty for the defense when the QB has his back to the LOS arguing with the ref while the clock is ticking. He could have killed the clock with a spike but HIS choice of action kept the game clock going.

I be interested in a cite, by anyone, of a rule showing the clock stops when a player voluntarily places the ball on the ground (except when such action advances the ball sufficient for a 1st Down).

That looked like it belonged in the 2011 Irish playbook, lol.

 

[Kak7304]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23karma&src=hash">#karma</a></p>— Jen Bielema (@jenbielema) <a href="https://twitter.com/jenbielema/statuses/379126996401258496">September 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Bret's wife's tweet immediately after that fiasco. Looks like they'll fit right in with the SEC. Classy.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

In that replay tha Kak provided, the QB was not tackled, nor did he take a knee, nor did he spike the ball. He voluntarily placed the ball on the carpet which strikes me as an unforced fumble.

Did the ref blow a whistle killing the play? Or did those ASU players jump on a live ball?

Regardless it tough to justify a delay of game penalty for the defense when the QB has his back to the LOS arguing with the ref while the clock is ticking. He could have killed the clock with a spike but HIS choice of action kept the game clock going.

I be interested in a cite, by anyone, of a rule showing the clock stops when a player voluntarily places the ball on the ground (except when such action advances the ball sufficient for a 1st Down).

Well he definitely took a knee and the play was immediately blown dead. ASU player laid on the ball for 9 seconds before he got off. It took the refs 15 seconds to spot the ball in the end of game situation.

 

[ACamp1900]

Well he definitely took a knee and the play was immediately blown dead. ASU player laid on the ball for 9 seconds before he got off. It took the refs 15 seconds to spot the ball in the end of game situation.

Reps

 

[BGIF]

Watch the video again. He does go to one knee albeit quickly.

About the 6 or 7 second mark it appear he tries to take a knee, his left knee, when one of his OLs backs into him knocking him backward. He struggles for balance and stands up.

Did his knee make contact with the ground or did the OLs bump prevent him?

The Ref is standing to the rear of the QB and is the only one with an unobstructed view fo his left or rear leg. I gather he didn't see a knee down making contact with the ground otherwise he would blow his whistle.

Without a whistle the play is live with the ball being "fumbled" not spiked to kill the clock.

Guess ww'll have to wait for the Monday Big 10/Pac 12 chief of refs to explain.

 

[NDWorld247]

Just saw the replay on SportsCenter...The ASU player jumps on the ball a good 2-3 seconds AFTER the whistle blows the play dead. That definitely should have been a delay of game.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Who cares he gave himself up. That's why QBs who kneel the ball in the NFL or slide don't have to be touched down.

 

[Kak7304]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>RT “<a href="https://twitter.com/swmckewonOWH">@swmckewonOWH</a>: He kneeled. <a href="http://t.co/iHV9WoQ18i">pic.twitter.com/iHV9WoQ18i</a>”</p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/statuses/379133138523287552">September 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

Did his knee make contact with the ground or did the OLs bump prevent him?

This actually doesn't matter. From NCAA 2012/2013 Rules and Interpretations Rule 4 Seciton 1 Article 3

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead: When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground

 

[Kak7304]

And another angle:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>RT “<a href="https://twitter.com/BTNMikeHall">@BTNMikeHall</a>: Stave taking a knee - video proof <a href="http://t.co/6jQkaUD8JC">pic.twitter.com/6jQkaUD8JC</a>”</p>— Angelo Di Carlo (@angdicarlowndu) <a href="https://twitter.com/angdicarlowndu/statuses/379133314759540736">September 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[BGIF]

This actually doesn't matter. From NCAA 2012/2013 Rules and Interpretations Rule 4 Seciton 1 Article 3

A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead: When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground

If you read my question I asked if his knee actually make contact with the ground or if the OLs bump prevented him from doing so.

The tweet Kak provided shows he does which I couldn't see from the first video. I thought it was the left knee he was trying to down not the first. I'm not arguing the rule but did he execute the required action. Action the tweet shows he does.

Next question is did the Ref situated behind the play see it, if not, it's academic.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

If you read my question I asked if his knee actually make contact with the ground or if the OLs bump prevented him from doing so.

The tweet Kak provided shows he does which I couldn't see from the first video. I thought it was the left knee he was trying to down not the first. I'm not arguing the rule but did he execute the required action. Action the tweet shows he does.

I understand that and I posted a picture earlier showing that. I'm just saying it didn't matter whether or not his knee touched the ground. Making a kneeling motion stills blows the play dead per the rules

Next question is did the Ref situated behind the play see it, if not, it's academic

Well some ref blew a whistle before any ASU player landed on the ball so the play was dead before any 'recovery'. And if the ref considered it a fumble then the play should have gone to review.

 

[BGIF]

I understand that and I posted a picture earlier showing that. I'm just saying it didn't matter whether or not his knee touched the ground. Making a kneeling motion stills blows the play dead per the rules



Well some ref blew a whistle before any ASU player landed on the ball so the play was dead before any 'recovery'. And if the ref considered it a fumble then the play should have gone to review.

Thanks for the explanation I didn't hear the whistle and didn't realize the kneel was like a phantom touch of second base on a double play ball. I thought you actually had to touch the ground, like really breaking the plane.

 

[dudesthisisthebest]

Thanks for the explanation I didn't hear the whistle and didn't realize the kneel was like a phantom touch of second base on a double play ball. I thought you actually had to touch the ground, like really breaking the plane.

Did not know that until today either. Looked up the rules right after I saw the play.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

I thought ASU was clearly the better team. Wisconsin was lucky to be in position to win the game.

ASU failed to capitalize on their early dominance, and handed Bucky some points on that fumble. As awful as the ending to the game was, the better team prevailed. I really don't feel bad for Wisconsin here.

 

[rtrn2glory]

we're really going to need to improve defensively to hold them off imo

 

[Kak7304]

Thanks for the explanation I didn't hear the whistle and didn't realize the kneel was like a phantom touch of second base on a double play ball. I thought you actually had to touch the ground, like really breaking the plane.

Yes, because the QB is basically giving up the play and the rule is made to prevent injuries. A few years ago, time was expiring in the half in a Texas Tech game and Mike Leach tried to run a fake QB kneel, throw it deep but it was whistled dead even though the QB didn't come close to making contact with the ground. He made the motion of taking a knee so it was blown dead.