All things RB

[UmphreakDomer]

A question to start he discussion:

when does this "good problem to have," become a problem?

only so many touches. so, here's my forecast.

Amir is too electric to keep off the field. just hoping he holds up, i think everyone is.

GA3--hmmm...just not a number 1, right? but big play ability/fumble-itis will determine his fate, i.e. 10+ touches vs. situational.

Cam is a workhorse/blue collar guy. i like him. i like his moves. tenacious. can he stay in the fold as a clear spell?

2 dynamic frosh--who sees their time increase? how short is their leash? i liked greg's first run, but i like tarean's "overall game", if you can call i that.

so what happens moving forward?

 

[cyrano]

This is a better place for a post I made in the Folston thread on this very topic...

Cam is our most complete back currently. It's just that he isn't as fast as GAIII, as quick as Amir, or at talented as GB/TF. However, he is more consistent than GAIII, more tough/durable between the tackles than Amir, and more experienced than GB/TF.

As GB and TF gather more experience and master the offense their other attributes will carry them past Cam. Amir will always play and be explosive, but is probably not a 20-25 carry back. GA is fantastic on the perimeter and will always have a place in our offense, but just not as an every down back.

Ideally, one of Bryant or Folston will pick up the offense quickly and begin to carry the load with 15 carries a game, plus or minus 5. Amir should touch the ball 5-10 times a game. Atkinson should get a similar number of touches.

Kind of random addendum... I'd like to see Amir line up as RB with GAIII in the slot. GAIII could come across in motion. Rees would then have the option to hand to GAIII on the jet sweep or hand to Amir up the middle. I think this would play to their strengths. Pure speed is best on the periphery and quickness is most important between the tackles. (I know, it's pretty obvious I watched the Clemson UGA game last night)

 

[loomis41973]

Amir
Cam
The 2 freshmen
GA3
That is my starting lineup at RB...jmo

 

[IrishFaninTX]

I'm a huge fan of Cam. I know some guys said they were not impressed but when anyone can break off 10+ yards several times in any game, I think they are a good back. Is he super fast? No. But he is as tough as they come and never gives up on getting that extra yard or 2. Amir is crazy good and I think will just get better and better. Still not sold on GAIII. I was very impressed with both freshmen. Where does that leave Mahone? Move him to slot?

My depth chart:
Amir
Cam
Folston
Bryant
GAIII
Mahone

You get GAIII touches but he should not be the premier back.

 

[dublinirish]

is there any reason to run GA3 between the tackles at this point? I just dont see why.

 

[Irishbounty28]

I do think that everyone is still jumping ahead a litt bit on the GAIII issue. He has yet to prove that he can't be the main back.

Last year he was not used much between the tackles, which was mainly because we had Theo and Cierre. This year, so far, he has 8 carries.

2 for 5 yards, 2 for 4 yards, 1 for 14 yards, 1 for -2 yards (bad play call), and 2 for 2 yards (1 being a touchdown run).

Take out the bad play call, the touchdown run which was only a max of 2 yards and you have a 5.3 yards per carry average. Likewise, if you hadd those two runs to Cam's total you would get 4.6 yards per carry, which is just over what GAIII's was at.

Basically, the production from both was not too much different. They both have a totally different style of running, but can both be productive imho.

 

[dublinirish]

GA3 would be a great RB in an option offense i think. He would be out on the edge and in space everytime he gets the ball.

Somebody gotta tell me too whats going on with Daniel Smith at H-Back. Where is Welch, Koyack? Are they really that bad they got beat out by a WR on goal line packages??

 

[Old Man Mike]

a]. Coach has consistently praised Daniel Smith as a superior in-space blocker. That's my only guess as to his presence in one of the "personnel packages" which we at IE should be looking more closely at --- if we figure them out we'll be smarter about Kelly's thinking in utilizing his array of players.

b]. these personnel packages are Coach's way of simplifying his [and Martin's] in-game roster management, and they are currently pretty robotic about that. As we heard, Coach took blame for not leaving Cam in the game to get the touchdown he deserved after carrying us down to the goal-line. Kelly explained that he/Martin subbed in a standard personnel package [which included GAIII] and didn't stop to think about the "earned sociology" of getting Cam "his" score.

c]. Although no one in their right minds should be over-evaluating the relative real-game merits [I say it this way to distinguish game play from "eyeball" thrill responses and on-paper theories] of the RBs, we all have a right of a HUMBLE opinion at this moment. Mine is: Amir Carlisle and Cam McDaniel could exist quite compatibly on the field at the same time.

That would put our best all-around back, and toughest between the tackles runner, alongside our quickest/ fastest actual gamespeed back as a potential home-run hitter. Whereas Amir cannot be a likely blocker for Cam, driving into the line probably doesn't need that. On the other hand however, Cam would be a good in-space blocker for Amir [as he does this all the time on Kickoffs anyway.]

d]. In their brief opportunities, both Bryant and Folston looked like studs. Maybe Coach could use them as a second Cam/ Amir pair.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

Good observation OMM.

Unfortunately, I find Kelly to be a bit predictable with his personnel packages and certain play calling.

As examples: last season when GA3 was in the game you knew it was either the quick toss out of the shotgun or the reverse draw. When Smith is in the game it's almost certain to be a run. I hope they self scout to eliminate some tendencies.

As for the backs, I think the best three should play. It can be a very fluid situation and would lead to some pretty fantastic practices. They should have to earn it Monday through Friday.
Then on game day you can either:
1- Give each guy a handful of carries and then feed whomever has the hot hand. Not only are they earning it during the week, but must then produce to get touches.
or
2-Run a faster pace offense to give your team more snaps.

 

[Patulski]

I think before anybody decides anything about running backs, we ought to see what kind of offense ND is going to run. I don't think we saw much of the offense Saturday.

Personally, I think the offense is going to be a more wide open offense where running backs are valued for their versatility running and catching the ball. We were more of a running offense last year because Golson was limited, particularly early, in his ability to read and check out of plays. We also ran it more because Golson could run the read option. Rees's strengths are his ability to read defenses and adapt. He can't run the read option, so to keep linebackers and safeties on their toes we're going to make them cover running backs in the slot and out of the backfield and make them play all over the field. We'll see that this week, with Carlisle and Atkinson getting most of the work. I would not be surprised if on short down run situations we see Bryant. He's a load who is not ready to build an offense around yet, particularly with Rees as the QB, but who can be used situationally.

 

[fightingirish26]

I expect the rbs to be used Saturday as they were against temple early on. If GAIII plays like he usually does he won't see many carries in the second half. I expect Carlisle and cam to get most of the load and, if we really get desperate, folston and Bryant will get meaningful touches. I'm still not quite sure how Atkinson was the top back on the depth chart, unless if he really just lapsed back into his old self for temple. I find it hard to believe that he was really running like a running back during fall camp

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Coach is in the business of winning games, not setting a little league roster where everyone shares the field equally.

With that said, I understand the need to share carries (keep morale high across the position), but the level of trust and consistency an offense needs to win games won't be reached if the backfield has a new duo every drive.

Bottom line: the younglins need to realize this Saturday is serious business, and if they don't play, it isn't a slight to them. It's Coach playing guys who have already earned his trust in big moments.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I'm giving GA3 one more game...

 

[A2forND]

Big on Cam....Notre Dames Danny Woodhead. We got to calling him "white chocolate" on saturday lol

 

[Patulski]

Amir and GAIII: Starters. Versatile backs with speed.

Cam: Good garbage game back

Bryant and Folston: The future. Bryant may be used on short yardage this year.

 

[woolybug25]

Amir and GAIII: Starters. Versatile backs with speed.

Cam: Good garbage game back

Bryant and Folston: The future. Bryant may be used on short yardage this year.

I see this much differently. Cam is much better than a "garbage game" back. He runs like a RB is suppose to and outplayed GA3 by a large margin in my opinion.

I would like to see Amir be our featured 3-down back with Cam as our between the tackles pounder.

 

[pumpdog20]

Granted, very little to go on, I know, but if the freshman are adequate with blitz pick up:

1- Folston- only over Amir because he "appears" to be able to handle a bigger load of inside runs. He also appears to be a decent threat out of the backfield for a pass.

2- Amir- quick, explosive, will cause headaches for opposing DCs. Need to see more inside runs to push him over TF. Should not be taken as a slight to be my #2.

3- Bryant- perhaps this "low" because I just didn't get to see him much. He may be TF's equal or even better, it just happened that Folston got more opportunity to show more.

4- Cam- he's actually a very good running back. Just a appears to be a half step slower in that first step otherwise he would be #1.

5- GAIII- sure he's the fastest, but it takes him forever, it seems, to get that fast gear. Plus, for as big as he is, Cam does a much better job of falling forward than GAIII.

Useless opinion based on 1 game.

 

[ND22SB]

GA I think should get the nod each game unless injury or plays a really bad game. Missed blocks, fumbles, etc.

Cam appears to see the field well. No flash or break away speed but hits the hole or edge and goes forward. A +0 RB. If you can't get positive yards get zero.

Amir in two RB set or in slot. Even start in slot and motion back from and get the DC head spinning. Has to see the field.

Folston and Bryant will definitely see the field this year. Bryant can lower the pads and Folston will have LB tripping over their own feet.

Could make a case for this one to get more reps than the other. If ND wins the running game each time, this team can go far.

 

[scUM Hater]

I want to see a two back offense once in a while. I dont care who is in there, they are all talented. Terrible problem to have.

 

[stlnd01]

I'd have to see Cam running against a stouter D before anointing him RB1, but the guy falls forward and that means a lot.
I like Carlisle but not sure he's durable enough to be our grinder. Good slot weapon, though.
Atkinson's got loads of talent, but still waiting for the light to go on. If it doesn't go on soon, he'll be looking up at someone on the depth chart...
Was impressed with Folston in limited action, didn't see enough of Bryant to say. But if one/both of those two can block, we ought to get them in a lot.
This is a good problem to have.

 

[Fire Charlie]

I don't get people's infatuation with Cam McDaniels. He's slow and should be used only in short yardage situations.

Carlisle and Atkinson are the 2, with the freshmen spelling them and Cam on 3rd and short/4th and short.

 

[SoIll]

I don't get people's infatuation with Cam McDaniels. He's slow and should be used only in short yardage situations.

Carlisle and Atkinson are the 2, with the freshmen spelling them and Cam on 3rd and short/4th and short.

invest on some of these chief..


sick of people hating on Cam. He out played GA3. Yeah it was Temple, but thats the problem.. He's got good vision, hits the hole hard and isn't afraid to lower the pads.. Still waiting to see that from George

 

[GoIrish41]

I think Folston will be starting by mid-year and Amir will become the full-time slot back. Bryant spelling Folston (or sharing the position) and McDaniel getting garbage carries when the game is decided. I'd like to see GA3 get some touches in space, where he can put that speed to use.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't get people's infatuation with Cam McDaniels. He's slow and should be used only in short yardage situations.

Carlisle and Atkinson are the 2, with the freshmen spelling them and Cam on 3rd and short/4th and short.

Did you actually watch the game?

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

I'm giving GA3 one more game...

I am too. I really think that first hit he took knocked him off his axis a little bit.

 

[NDWorld247]

I'm giving GA3 one more game...

I am too. I really think that first hit he took knocked him off his axis a little bit.

And then what? You guys going to bench him?

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

And then what? You guys going to bench him?

Then I'm going to come on here and bitch. Pretty much it.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

And then what? You guys going to bench him?

No.. it means I got to be like Kate Winslet in Titanic.

 

[Circa]

They know, believe that! Carlisle is the man and we got to see him the very 1st play of the game.... per say; that's all we needed to see! as for the rest of these studs... if we really think it's an issue finding the next man in theory? we are an over-analyzing bunch of dorks who want to think and watch as much video as I do... or not....hehe

 

[Fire Charlie]

Did you actually watch the game?

Yes. Did you?

Your post doesn't really extrapolate on what exactly it is you disagree with in my post so I'm having a hard time responding. Perhaps if you added more details we could have a civilized debate.

invest on some of these chief..


sick of people hating on Cam. He out played GA3. Yeah it was Temple, but thats the problem.. He's got good vision, hits the hole hard and isn't afraid to lower the pads.. Still waiting to see that from George

First off: you're sick of people hating on Cam? All I've seen is non stop Cam love here.


2nd, all those things you described is exactly why he is perfect for short yardage downs. In all other situations though, it should be someone with speed. Cam McDaniels had monsterous holes opened for him in the Temple game by the offensive line, and a faster RB would have been preferable in the open space situations that Cam found himself in.

I think maybe because you saw Cam have 25+ yard runs you think that was his doing, rather than the offensive line. I don't give credit to the RB for running through a hole that a truck could be driven through. I give that credit to the offensive line. He had some very nice holes opened up for him on Saturday that could have been every better plays if a faster runner had been in.

I agree with your points about his low pad level and hitting the hole hard, he does that well.

btw, no need for the insults.