Post Holtz Era and Pre Kelly Era

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Who deserves the most blame for why ND football was mediocre between 1994-2011? I will go with the administration.

 

[Cali_domer]

Who deserves the most blame for why ND football was mediocre between 1994-2011? I will go with the administration.

Admin

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If I had to pick one person, it'd be Monk Malloy. The BoT during that period probably bears more responsibility, but it's easier to put a single face on those dark ages.

This thread is bad juju.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Kevin White is up there. That bastard.

 

[tussin]

Can someone give an overview of why the admin. / BOT sucked in the late 90s and early 00s?

 

[mgriff]

Let's start a ****-slinging thread right before the season! Can't we just ****ing look forward for once? The future is genuinely bright, finally, and we are going to go back into the **** that has haunted us for two decades? No thanks...

As a little aside, I understand your right to have questions and post whatever you want OP, but I just think this negative reflection isn't really a great thing at this juncture.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Can someone give an overview of why the admin. / BOT sucked in the late 90s and early 00s?

BGIF could probably explain this far better than I, but here's my understanding:

The BoT and then-President Monk Malloy wanted to improve ND's academic prestige. They believed that ND's reputation as a "football school" was an impediment to that goal. So they started to undermine the football program; this ultimately led to Holtz' departure and a long series of decisions in which the long-term success of the program was not a priority for the administration.

Things started to turn around when Jenkins became President and hired Swarbrick as AD. That was the end of NDFB's dark age. In Malloy's defense, however, he did succeed in significantly improving ND's academic reputation.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

Let's start a ****-slinging thread right before the season! Can't we just ****ing look forward for once? The future is genuinely bright, finally, and we are going to go back into the **** that has haunted us for two decades? No thanks...

As a little aside, I understand your right to have questions and post whatever you want OP, but I just think this negative reflection isn't really a great thing at this juncture.

I understand I was just curious cause I am a History person.

 

[Irish#1]

BGIF could probably explain this far better than I, but here's my understanding:

The BoT and then-President Monk Malloy wanted to improve ND's academic prestige. They believed that ND's reputation as a "football school" was an impediment to that goal. So they started to undermine the football program; this ultimately led to Holtz' departure and a long series of decisions in which the long-term success of the program was not a priority for the administration.

Things started to turn around when Jenkins became President and hired Swarbrick as AD. That was the end of NDFB's dark age. In Malloy's defense, however, he did succeed in significantly improving ND's academic reputation.

This is the same story I've heard over the years. The sad part is you can raise the academic excellence without compromising the football program. It didn't have to be one or the other.

 

[Cackalacky]

How much has Res Life impacted it? I understand there are several cases Res Life has hurt the football team. I think Kelly alluded to it recently that he wanted to be a part of the decision process regarding football players academic situations (it seemed like he was/is not).

 

[BGIF]

Who deserves the most blame for why ND football was mediocre between 1994-2011? I will go with the administration.

The same individual that insured mediocrity after Rocke and after Leahy, the UND President. I've posted at length here in the past so I'll not repeat it. When ND football gets successful ND presidents get uncomfortable.

If Rockne hadn't died in the crash, he might well have been fired. The Administration felt sadness AND relief at his passing as the crisis was avoided. They promoted a good but lesser coach then hamstrung him. Many players left school without Rockne to protect them and Anderson couldn't get players admitted that Rockne did. Malaise follows.

Leahy brings in a string of NCs, has health problems, and asks for a medical Leave of Abscence. The young ND president refuses. Leahy "resigns" and the Freshman Coach with no head coaching experience is promoted. Scholarships are cut. Admissions tightened. Repeat the Rockne scenario but with worse effect. It was until Parashegian turned down that ND president for the job that Fr Hesburgh "softened up". Then the football program returned.

Under Holtz, ND once again was spoken subordinate to the coach's name. "Rockne's Notre Dame", "Leahy's Lads", Holtz's Fighting Irish". ND president's don't like the coach's name ahead of the University.

Monk Malloy drew in the reins on the football program. AD Rosenthal was Holtz peer and buddy, the left and right hands worked together. ADs Wadsworth and White did Malloy's bidding as did V.P. Beauchamp and Admissison's Rooney.


P.S. The drop off in '94 has a couple of others factors. Holtz was a great coach and a great closer but he was the key to the recruiting dynamo of the late 80's. That was Vinny Cerrato's work. Holtz's genius was in hiring Cerrato and making him fulltime Recruiting Coordinator with no position or field coaching responsibilities. Holtz sacrificed a coaching slot to do so meaning the others coaches had more player work to do. Competiting coaches complained about Cerratto's role although it was within the NCAA rules. The rule was changed abolishing a fulltime recruiting coordinator position and allowing only position coaches to recruit.

The ND Administration, Malloy/Beauchamp/Rooney, were also unhappy with Holtz and Cerrato repeatedly trying to force "borderline" student athletes through Admissions. No tears were shed when Cerrato left after the Signing Day in '90. Most of that class graduated after the '93 season, the year of ND's last great OLine. Without Cerrato, Holtz's recruiting classes dropped in talent over his 6 years.

Davie and Willingham ran scared of Admissions and the Administration. Weis, as an alumnus knew ND's tougher admissions policy and tougher academic environment. To his credit rather than fight Admissions adversarily ala Holtz, he embraced Admissions establishing dialog. He wanted to understand what to look for on a transcript so he and his staff could find the red flags that Admissions did and not waste coach's or Admission's time on the unadmitable. He also wanted to hone in on those that could be admitted if missing courses were taken, deficient grades improved, or a test score improved. Under Holtz Admissions would not rule in many cases until HS grades were received for the Fall semester in January. By then it was too late for corrective academic action by the recruit and too late for Holtz to move to Plan B. Weis worked to work with Admissions rather than trying to finesse them.

One more comment on Holtz. If you look at his history, he was a corporate Turn Around Specialist type rather than a corporate Shepherd. He was a builder not a maintainer. He was adversarial by nature. He was well received wherever he went but he wore his welcome out wherever he stayed long.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

How much has Res Life impacted it? I understand there are several cases Res Life has hurt the football team. I think Kelly alluded to it recently that he wanted to be a part of the decision process regarding football players academic situations (it seemed like he was/is not).

It all flows down from the administration. That was part and parcel with their undermining of the football program.

It looked like ResLife was getting reformed for a while, but then there was another abrupt change in leadership. I have no idea what direction it's heading in now.

It sounds like this is a sticking point in Kelly's contract negotiation.

 

[Patulski]

The same individual that insured mediocrity after Rocke and after Leahy, the UND President. I've posted at length here in the past so I'll not repeat it. When ND football gets successful ND presidents get uncomfortable.

If Rockne hadn't died in the crash, he might well have been fired. The Administration felt sadness AND relief at his passing as the crisis was avoided. They promoted a good but lesser coach then hamstrung him. Many players left school without Rockne to protect them and Anderson couldn't get players admitted that Rockne did. Malaise follows.

Leahy brings in a string of NCs, has health problems, and asks for a medical Leave of Abscence. The young ND president refuses. Leahy "resigns" and the Freshman Coach with no head coaching experience is promoted. Scholarships are cut. Admissions tightened. Repeat the Rockne scenario but with worse effect. It was until Parashegian turned down that ND president for the job that Fr Hesburgh "softened up". Then the football program returned.

Under Holtz, ND once again was spoken subordinate to the coach's name. "Rockne's Notre Dame", "Leahy's Lads", Holtz's Fighting Irish". ND president's don't like the coach's name ahead of the University.

Monk Malloy drew in the reins on the football program. AD Rosenthal was Holtz peer and buddy, the left and right hands worked together. ADs Wadsworth and White did Malloy's bidding as did V.P. Beauchamp and Admissison's Rooney.

Well stated.

I suspect that the amount of debt ND has taken on to finance all their building, along with the scare of the financial collapse of 2008 is behind the current resurgence of the program. As soon as ND feels that they are comfortable financially again, they'll push the football program aside again. This is why I will not be upset if Kelly leaves. He is dealing with people who use the football program, all the while holding their noses. If he stays and has legendary success, they'll stab him in the back like all the others when the time comes.

 

[PANDFAN]

irishpat

 

[Whiskeyjack]

See, I don't understand the Board's animus toward the program. Whenever Irish football is flying high, they begin to treat the head coach like a bunch of Roman senators would a dangerously ambitious and popular Consul.

I'm not expert on the politics of ND's administration, but I have a hard time believing there's any real possibility of a coup by the Athletic Department. The BoT is always in control. So why the cyclical undermining of the program? It's a cash cow, and it provides a wonderful platform from which to advertise the school.

 

[Cackalacky]

I blame this thread for Hoods decommitment.

 

[ACamp1900]

I still don't see Kelly as bringing about the end to the 'post Hotlz drama" era... one year doesn't overwrite 15...

 

[Patulski]

See, I don't understand the Board's animus toward the program. Whenever Irish football is flying high, they begin to treat the head coach like a bunch of Roman senators would a dangerously ambitious and popular Consul.

I'm not expert on the politics of ND's administration, but I have a hard time believing there's any real possibility of a coup by the Athletic Department. The BoT is always in control. So why the cyclical undermining of the program? It's a cash cow, and it provides a wonderful platform from which to advertise the school.

The Fellow's elect the Trustees. They are the real power of the university and 6 of them are always C.S.C's. You would be surprised how big the ego's of these C.S.C.'s are. Power is as big a motivator to them as money is. A guy to watch as a power broker is Timothy Skully. Many believe he would have had Jenkins job had he not gotten into this dispute. Nevertheless, he's still on the Board of Fellows and very powerful.

 

[BGIF]

How much has Res Life impacted it? I understand there are several cases Res Life has hurt the football team. I think Kelly alluded to it recently that he wanted to be a part of the decision process regarding football players academic situations (it seemed like he was/is not).

Res Life has not impacted football directly like hiring under qualified coaches, reducing scholarships, or stricter admissions policies has. Res Life like, Residentiality, parietals, du Lac, ND's academic environment/graduation rate all impact football but they aren't measures enacted to diminish the success of a sports program, they were put in place for the betterment of the individual student in a Catholic environment.

Cooper Rego was not targeted by Res Life for being a football player. He was dismissed and banned from campus for an alledged unconsensual sexual encounter.

Ross Browner and several others were not targeted for being a football players but they were dismissed by UND for a group parietal violation. It was not a criminal and on all but a handful of campuses would not have been a student violation. That group took their dismissal, sat out a year, and as Seniors won NC rings.

Powers-Neal would not have sat out the rest of the season at Minnesota but he did at ND but for the same rules that apply to all students.


As Res Life applies to all ND students why should some get a multi-million dollar advocate when others aren't permitted an academic advocate?

If a player on the gridiron or on the court makes a bonehead play it's appropriate for a coach to take some action be it running the steps or sitting on the bench.

If student makes a bonehead play it's appropriate for the University to take action not a coach whose bonus may decide on the outcome.

 

[Patulski]

As Res Life applies to all ND students why should some get a multi-million dollar advocate when others aren't permitted an academic advocate?

Individuals get million dollar advocates at Notre Dame all the time. Check out this years Hesburgh-Yusko Scholars list. There's a familiar name on there whose father is politically connected and was a classmate of Mark Yusco. Notre Dame is rife with back scratching and influence, like all powerful institutions.

 

[mgriff]

I understand I was just curious cause I am a History person.

Hey man no worries. Pat started a thread far more volatile than this one.

 

[ulukinatme]

The same individual that insured mediocrity after Rocke and after Leahy, the UND President. I've posted at length here in the past so I'll not repeat it. When ND football gets successful ND presidents get uncomfortable.

...

BGIF....that whole post was beautiful...and sad.

 

[BGIF]

I still don't see Kelly as bringing about the end to the 'post Hotlz drama" era... one year doesn't overwrite 15...

Monk being put out to pasture and Jenkins taking over does.

Swarbrick is more Rosenthal than Wadsworth and White combined.

 

[ACamp1900]

Monk being put out to pasture and Jenkins taking over does.

Swarbrick is more Rosenthal than Wadsworth and White combined.

I'll be fully on-board when ND wins ten plus games at least three of the next five seasons... or something to that effect/average... and wins a big bowl game or two...

I'm a sample size kind of guy.

 

[GBdomer]

The Golic's

 

[ulukinatme]

The Golic's

Don't you bring Bob into this

 

[Black Irish]

The Fellow's elect the Trustees. They are the real power of the university and 6 of them are always C.S.C's. You would be surprised how big the ego's of these C.S.C.'s are. Power is as big a motivator to them as money is. A guy to watch as a power broker is Timothy Skully. Many believe he would have had Jenkins job had he not gotten into this dispute. Nevertheless, he's still on the Board of Fellows and very powerful.

Ego and politics, the usual suspects involved when people feel the need to sh*t on a program that is bringing home the bacon. People like that must have "cut off your nose to spite your face" as their life's motto.