Clowney, Bridgewater, Miller join Manziel?

[irish1958]

I am wondering why these can't be academy type entities like in soccer outside of the US. This could be applied to any sport. Let those who want to be professional be professional.

Because the NFL and theNBA get it for free now.

 

[kmoose]

How about if all payments from things like this went into a fund that was then used to provide a stipend for all the players on a team? Each player, whether a superstar or scout team member, would get an equal amount. Sure, a player like Manziel may be the one whose autograph or jersey is providing most of the money for such a program, but he didn't get there without his teammates helping him, so.... You cap it at $5000/player and that prevents rich alumni from making their school's payout program any better than any other school's.

And who is going to pony up the $5000 for each of the Womens Field Hockey players?

 

[eNDzone]

If a player wants paid then go straight to the NFL. See how that works out for you. There are other advantages to college sports. Such as free training and a free education if sports don't pan out.

 

[TCramer]

Most of these schools make enough money off of football that they can easily afford to pay other athletes, male and female, $5,000 each...I'm sure Notre Dame makes around $50,000,000 per season

 

[Rack Em]

Most of these schools make enough money off of football that they can easily afford to pay other athletes, male and female, $5,000 each...I'm sure Notre Dame makes around $50,000,000 per season

Maybe in the power conferences. I doubt Bowling Green or Utah State can.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Most NCAA Athletic Departments Take Subsidies

In 2011-12, athletics programs at 23 of 228 Division I public schools generated enough money from media rights contracts, ticket sales, donations and other sources (not including subsidies from institutional or government support or student fees) to cover their expenses.

So tell me again about how much extra money athletic departments have to pay their student-athletes

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Another thing to think about in the paying players debate is that, in terms of revenue and profitability, it's sort of Texas and then everyone else.

School Rev. Exp. Profit
Texas $103.8 $25.9 $77.9
Michigan $85.2 $23.6 $61.6
Georgia $75.0 $22.7 $52.3
Florida $74.1 $23.1 $51.1
Alabama $82.0 $36.9 $45.1
LSU $68.8 $24.1 $44.8
Auburn $77.2 $33.3 $43.8
Notre Dame $69.0 $25.8 $43.2
Arkansas $64.2 $24.3 $39.9
Nebraska $55.1 $18.7 $36.4

 

[kmoose]

Most of these schools make enough money off of football that they can easily afford to pay other athletes, male and female, $5,000 each...I'm sure Notre Dame makes around $50,000,000 per season

Seriously? You think ND's athletic department just has piles of cash laying around?

 

[ulukinatme]

And who is going to pony up the $5000 for each of the Womens Field Hockey players?

Thats the price of having an extra X chromosome

 

[ulukinatme]

The national championship game would be between Oklahoma State and Oregon almost every year.

I wouldn't rule out Texas. They bring in more than both those schools.

 

[LoveThee]

85 scholarship players, if they each make $5,000 as suggested thats $425,000... but you also have to play basketball players so bump that to $485,000.... but then you get title IX arguments so you're paying all the women's teams. You also have to pay the other males sports.... this is easily a million dollar expenditure on "amateur" athletics. If you pay them, the amateur tag goes away and college sports loses something special

 

[ulukinatme]

85 scholarship players, if they each make $5,000 as suggested thats $425,000... but you also have to play basketball players so bump that to $485,000.... but then you get title IX arguments so you're paying all the women's teams. You also have to pay the other males sports.... this is easily a million dollar expenditure on "amateur" athletics. If you pay them, the amateur tag goes away and college sports loses something special

 

[Cackalacky]

SEC Schools Spend $163,931 Per Athlete, And Other Ways The NCAA Is A Bonfire For Your Money
Very interesting article.

 

[WaveDomer]

What? Getting free tuition isn't enough? It's 2 to 4 years of your life and if you are talented enough you then go pro and make money. Before that you just get a free education, get training in your sport from professional coaches, and exposure in that sport from television networks. You can't wait 2 - 4 years to get paid while getting an education in the meantime? And if you aren't talented enough you just got a free education. Basically an internship or low level position before you move up to something bigger. Same for everyone else in society who works.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

What? Getting free tuition isn't enough? It's 2 to 4 years of your life and if you are talented enough you then go pro and make money. Before that you just get a free education, get training in your sport from professional coaches, and exposure in that sport from television networks. You can't wait 2 - 4 years to get paid while getting an education in the meantime? And if you aren't talented enough you just got a free education. Basically an internship or low level position before you move up to something bigger. Same for everyone else in society who works.

I tend to agree that schools providing a full ride is enough on their part. However, your argument doesn't address the issue of players being able to capitalize on the market value of their personal brand. Why shouldn't JFF be able to accept $7,500 for signing hundreds of autographs? There is a legitimate discussion to be had about players ability to accept benefits

 

[ACamp1900]

What? Getting free tuition isn't enough? It's 2 to 4 years of your life and if you are talented enough you then go pro and make money. Before that you just get a free education, get training in your sport from professional coaches, and exposure in that sport from television networks. You can't wait 2 - 4 years to get paid while getting an education in the meantime? And if you aren't talented enough you just got a free education. Basically an internship or low level position before you move up to something bigger. Same for everyone else in society who works.

I see both sides but this is usually where I find myself every time... Look, I have a second mortgage between my wife and I called "student loan payments"... just down the street from me there was a 67 fastback mustang in great shape for sale for 25,500 last month... I could have owned that the next day if not for my SL debt... that's life.

I also started my education at a small Cal State... in my dorm hall were two athletes, one soccer player and one baseball player... they didn't want for much of anything... ever... I can also tell you right now that very few students I came across put in less effort than either of those two when it came to school... and I really don't feel that's atypical.

Put that all together and it's REALLY hard for me to feel bad for athletes that are ‘exploited’ while getting a full ride.


Again, I get all the other stuff too… that’s just where I am at.

 

[ACamp1900]

I tend to agree that schools providing a full ride is enough on their part. However, your argument doesn't address the issue of players being able to capitalize on the market value of their personal brand. Why shouldn't JFF be able to accept $7,500 for signing hundreds of autographs? There is a legitimate discussion to be had about players ability to accept benefits

I get all this too... not sure where I fall here yet to be honest... still waver back and forth for a number of reasons...

 

[kmoose]

Why shouldn't JFF be able to accept $7,500 for signing hundreds of autographs? There is a legitimate discussion to be had about players ability to accept benefits

No, there isn't. Money Badger shouldn't be able to accept $7.50 for signing autographs. All that will accomplish is to create a bidding war, with the schools with the richest boosters signing the top athletes, every year.

 

[Bishop2b5]

What? Getting free tuition isn't enough? It's 2 to 4 years of your life and if you are talented enough you then go pro and make money. Before that you just get a free education, get training in your sport from professional coaches, and exposure in that sport from television networks. You can't wait 2 - 4 years to get paid while getting an education in the meantime? And if you aren't talented enough you just got a free education. Basically an internship or low level position before you move up to something bigger. Same for everyone else in society who works.

I don't have a perfect answer for any of this. I don't think players should get a significant cut of the ticket sales, jersey sales, etc. their school gets. They're getting a free education, a chance to develop their skills and go on to the pros, etc. I do think most student athletes need a stipend of about $5000/year to cover the actual cost of attending college for things such as clothing, normal social expenses, household items, etc. For many athletes, their families can afford to provide that, but there are some who can't.

 

[Redbar]

What? Getting free tuition isn't enough? It's 2 to 4 years of your life and if you are talented enough you then go pro and make money. Before that you just get a free education, get training in your sport from professional coaches, and exposure in that sport from television networks. You can't wait 2 - 4 years to get paid while getting an education in the meantime? And if you aren't talented enough you just got a free education. Basically an internship or low level position before you move up to something bigger. Same for everyone else in society who works.

+1
Not to mention instant gratification is not necessarily a good thing for the individual. Most kids will take that money and do nothing but find trouble and waste potential. See Manziel, John.

 

[Cackalacky]

Because the NFL and theNBA get it for free now.

We as taxpayers at least pay for some of the costs of the state schools (exceptions being private schools in part or wholly) to include student-onlys and student athletes. So we are effectively subsidizing professional sports teams as well.

If we had football academies, kids could bypass school, play lower tier competition getting their bodies physically ready to take the beating of an NFL career, and be at amateur status and develop their brand. Football for the most part does require someone to have an additional 2-4 years to develop their body into taking an NFL beating, and we allow most other sports to go pro just after or even before leaving high school.

The kids that want to go to school go to school. At heart I am a purist and love college athletics but I see the business aspect of it as well. Texas (for example) will not want to give up all the revenue they bring in as some of it does back into the university as a whole. To what extent, I don't know.

I waiver like ACamp for numerous reasons. I like the professional academies idea though.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

No, there isn't. Money Badger shouldn't be able to accept $7.50 for signing autographs. All that will accomplish is to create a bidding war, with the schools with the richest boosters signing the top athletes, every year.

I don't understand why this is treated like it's inherently evil. Recruiting now is very much driven by the schools with the richest boosters. Instead of paying the players directly, though, they funnel the money throw the school and you end up with the new Oregon and Bama weight rooms. The top schools already recruit on an uneven playing field so I don't understand what you think will change.

 

[kmoose]

I don't understand why this is treated like it's inherently evil. Recruiting now is very much driven by the schools with the richest boosters. Instead of paying the players directly, though, they funnel the money throw the school and you end up with the new Oregon and Bama weight rooms. The top schools already recruit on an uneven playing field so I don't understand what you think will change.

As soon as you start "legally" paying college football players, people are going to start talking about compensating high school football players. We wonder why professional athletes seem to have this sense of entitlement? It's because they have been treated like they are special, for probably most of their lives. We've all seen the stories of High School football stars who get away with things that no other "normal" kid would get away with. As soon as these kids start realizing that they will make damn good money, in college, their behavior will be over the top. Does no one care about how this money corrupts these kids? I'm not asking to take all of the money out of sports; that's naïve and unrealistic. But I do think that we should be on guard against allowing things to get out of hand, and allowing the money factor to just run amok.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

As soon as you start "legally" paying college football players, people are going to start talking about compensating high school football players. We wonder why professional athletes seem to have this sense of entitlement? It's because they have been treated like they are special, for probably most of their lives. We've all seen the stories of High School football stars who get away with things that no other "normal" kid would get away with. As soon as these kids start realizing that they will make damn good money, in college, their behavior will be over the top. Does no one care about how this money corrupts these kids? I'm not asking to take all of the money out of sports; that's naïve and unrealistic. But I do think that we should be on guard against allowing things to get out of hand, and allowing the money factor to just run amok.

I don't think anyone is going to suggest we pay high school players. The conversation is being had about college players because of the significant market they create but are not allowed to participate in.

As for the corrupting and running amok, I think that's highly speculative and I could easily argue the other way. Most likely, nothing will change and 18-22 year old kids are still going to act the way they have for years, which is to say some will be grounded and humble and act right and others will be idiots and *******s.

You may have the last word if you like.

 

[Cackalacky]

As soon as you start "legally" paying college football players, people are going to start talking about compensating high school football players. We wonder why professional athletes seem to have this sense of entitlement? It's because they have been treated like they are special, for probably most of their lives. We've all seen the stories of High School football stars who get away with things that no other "normal" kid would get away with. As soon as these kids start realizing that they will make damn good money, in college, their behavior will be over the top. Does no one care about how this money corrupts these kids? I'm not asking to take all of the money out of sports; that's naïve and unrealistic. But I do think that we should be on guard against allowing things to get out of hand, and allowing the money factor to just run amok.

This sounds like an infinite regression argument.

 

[kmoose]

This sounds like an infinite regression argument.

I can't really support it, clearly. It's just a gut feeling I have. Once we start paying college athletes, the public demand for the game will continue to pressure the market to pay more and more, similar to what has happened with salaries in the NFL, from the 50s-60s, to now. I don't think they will start making millionaires out of college kids, but the growth of the money will probably be profound. As that pressure mounts, people are going to be paying more and more attention to High School football. ESPN is already showcasing High School football on TV. As that interest piques, the money involved is going to grow....the "celebrity" of High School players is going to skyrocket, and schools are going to start using football as a tool for financing. Most school districts are already feeling the crunch of shrinking budgets. At that point, people will start making the same arguments about High School players as they are making about College players now; the schools are profiting from students' work, while the students see nothing.

 

[Cackalacky]

I can't really support it, clearly. It's just a gut feeling I have. Once we start paying college athletes, the public demand for the game will continue to pressure the market to pay more and more, similar to what has happened with salaries in the NFL, from the 50s-60s, to now. I don't think they will start making millionaires out of college kids, but the growth of the money will probably be profound. As that pressure mounts, people are going to be paying more and more attention to High School football. ESPN is already showcasing High School football on TV. As that interest piques, the money involved is going to grow....the "celebrity" of High School players is going to skyrocket, and schools are going to start using football as a tool for financing. Most school districts are already feeling the crunch of shrinking budgets. At that point, people will start making the same arguments about High School players as they are making about College players now; the schools are profiting from students' work, while the students see nothing.

For other sports there are plenty of millionaire teenagers. I have no problems with that and there is no pressure to find the next Tiger Woods or A-Rod fro the public.

Football in this country, especially college football, is a huge beast and stands alone. It will take some serious discussions/actions to ground this juggernaut.

 

[kmoose]

For other sports there are plenty of millionaire teenagers. I have no problems with that and there is no pressure to find the next Tiger Woods or A-Rod fro the public.

Football in this country, especially college football, is a huge beast and stands alone. It will take some serious discussions/actions to ground this juggernaut.

No pressure to find the next Tiger Woods? How about Michelle Wie? For Christ's sake, she was finishing practically dead last in LPGA events, and they were trying to get her into PGA events.

I also think that football is just a different sport. The passion and frenzy that surrounds it is unique, in the US. No one cares about college baseball, outside of maybe the College World Series.

 

[IrishLion]

No pressure to find the next Tiger Woods? How about Michelle Wie? For Christ's sake, she was finishing practically dead last in LPGA events, and they were trying to get her into PGA events.

I also think that football is just a different sport. The passion and frenzy that surrounds it is unique, in the US. No one cares about college baseball, outside of maybe the College World Series.

Though she isn't an amateur, and thus doesn't really fit in with this discussion, this reminds me a lot of Danica Patrick in Nascar. Don't get me wrong, she's a decent driver, but there are 10+ female drivers at lower levels more talented than her.

However, since people know her name and because she's good-looking, she gets put on the fast track. Really, this type of situation is unfair for those getting passed by, but also for the athlete in question. It reaks of unrealistic expectations... which reminds me of football recruiting at times... these things really can turn into neverending discussions.

 

[Cackalacky]

Though she isn't an amateur, and thus doesn't really fit in with this discussion, this reminds me a lot of Danica Patrick in Nascar. Don't get me wrong, she's a decent driver, but there are 10+ female drivers at lower levels more talented than her.

However, since people know her name and because she's good-looking, she gets put on the fast track. Really, this type of situation is unfair for those getting passed by, but also for the athlete in question. It reaks of unrealistic expectations... which reminds me of football recruiting at times... these things really can turn into neverending discussions.

This. Michele Wie went through the amateur tours at her own choosing and because she was allowed to. Going pro, I am pretty sure means she had to play well enough to qualify for the professional circuit, though I may be wrong. Most sports require persons to go amateur routes or at least allow them to anyway, then go professional. Football and to an extent basketball amateur levels are in Universities.