George Zimmerman Trial

[Emcee77]

It's just a shame how these supposed "leaders" are just publicity whores who don't even care about consistent public policy.

Right, the reaction to the verdict really saddens me. Maybe Stand Your Ground laws are not good policy, and maybe Zimmerman was a blatant racial profiler (imo, yes and yes) ... but none of that means Zimmerman should be in jail. As far as I can tell, he had a valid self-defense defense in any state. The verdict was correct based on the evidence, imo. It's tragic that Trayvon is dead, but the justice system functioned properly. I mean, isn't this a country of laws?? This is a country where the Supreme Court decided a presidential election, and there was no military coup or popular revolution. We respect and abide by the law in this country, and the law doesn't and shouldn't require Zimmerman to go to jail on the evidence presented against him at trial.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a discussion sparked by this case about Stand Your Ground laws and racial profiling, but when the generalized conviction that Zimmerman did something wrong manifests itself as outrage at the verdict and at the justice system generally, and that outrage dominates the discussion, there's been a failure of logic, and it bothers me that so many people fail to see that.

 

[BGIF]

...surveillance cameras will tell the tale. Otherwise, she shot someone who had a weapon and brandished it...tragic, but sounds like if she is telling the truth, she'll walk and she should.

The tape should help but without audio it not going to show who said what to who. There were at least two witnessess within 10 - 15 feet.

Here's a snippet of tape from a KHOU article:

HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston | khou.com Houston

When the tape starts she already has her trunk/hatch open. There's no mention of whether she had a gas can in the trunk otherwise why open the trunk to fill the car's tank?

Did the 58 year old harass her or did she bait him? And when he came near pulled out the weapon and shot him. One witness said he was mad. Another likened it to the wild wild west, "just pulled out a gun".

You can see the man lunge and appear to take a swipe with his left arm but I can't see a knife. He has an umbrella in his right hand which was nearer the woman but didn't swing that. She clearly has the rifle out and close to him BEFORE he swipes at her. Was he defending himself from her gun threat?

The tape stops before the shots, plural, were fired. I've got to believe there's more footage than what was shown.

She claims she shot into the ground (concrete) and he was killed by a richochet.

I spent a half hour reading Texas law trying to determine if it's legal to have a loaded rifle in your car. Didn't find out. You don't need a permit to have a rifle in the car but carrying it loaded strikes me as suspicious.

In the first linked article in this thread, her P.C. with Quannell X, she noted she left and went home as she feared for her life from friends of the deceased. But she was in such great fear that she walked about casually taking photos of the scene before leaving. Police weren't notified until sometime after she got home.

72 hour and she's "not been arrested for killing someone".

So far no demonstrations aside from the P.C. Guess no one's hired a press agent to get the word out.

Whoever is in charge of this case apparently learned from Sanford. This case is being sent to a Grand Jury to see if CHARGES should be filed not because they have been filed.

Texas is a SYG state so I expect she walks but there's some explaining to do and possibly some other charges. He swipes at her but AFTER she has the rifle pointing in his direction, she was carrying a loaded rifle in the car, she didn't call police or wait for them as she claimed she feared for her life from his unseen friends but she casually took photos post killing.

 

[phgreek]

The tape should help but without audio it not going to show who said what to who. There were at least two witnessess within 10 - 15 feet.

Here's a snippet of tape from a KHOU article:

HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston | khou.com Houston

When the tape starts she already has her trunk/hatch open. There's no mention of whether she had a gas can in the trunk otherwise why open the trunk to fill the car's tank?

Did the 58 year old harass her or did she bait him? And when he came near pulled out the weapon and shot him. One witness said he was mad. Another likened it to the wild wild west, "just pulled out a gun".

You can see the man lunge and appear to take a swipe with his left arm but I can't see a knife. He has an umbrella in his right hand which was nearer the woman but didn't swing that. She clearly has the rifle out and close to him BEFORE he swipes at her. Was he defending himself from her gun threat?

The tape stops before the shots, plural, were fired. I've got to believe there's more footage than what was shown.

She claims she shot into the ground (concrete) and he was killed by a richochet.

I spent a half hour reading Texas law trying to determine if it's legal to have a loaded rifle in your car. Didn't find out. You don't need a permit to have a rifle in the car but carrying it loaded strikes me as suspicious.

In the first linked article in this thread, her P.C. with Quannell X, she noted she left and went home as she feared for her life from friends of the deceased. But she was in such great fear that she walked about casually taking photos of the scene before leaving. Police weren't notified until sometime after she got home.

72 hour and she's "not been arrested for killing someone".

So far no demonstrations aside from the P.C. Guess no one's hired a press agent to get the word out.

Whoever is in charge of this case apparently learned from Sanford. This case is being sent to a Grand Jury to see if CHARGES should be filed not because they have been filed.

Texas is a SYG state so I expect she walks but there's some explaining to do and possibly some other charges. He swipes at her but AFTER she has the rifle pointing in his direction, she was carrying a loaded rifle in the car, she didn't call police or wait for them as she claimed she feared for her life from his unseen friends but she casually took photos post killing.

I can see how audio would certainly clarify...and the rest of the tape.

Thanks for the surveillance tape link BTW. Would like to see the ends of that tape for sure. As you say, How did the trunk come to be open is something I would want to know...and yea, I'd like to see the actual fatal exchange...and what happened after.

People do weird things in stressful situations...it may well have occurred to her after she took pictures that people were angry at her, or she just perceived that...and she bailed. The picture thing is just bizarre though...

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

The tape should help but without audio it not going to show who said what to who. There were at least two witnessess within 10 - 15 feet.

Here's a snippet of tape from a KHOU article:

HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston | khou.com Houston

When the tape starts she already has her trunk/hatch open. There's no mention of whether she had a gas can in the trunk otherwise why open the trunk to fill the car's tank?

Did the 58 year old harass her or did she bait him? And when he came near pulled out the weapon and shot him. One witness said he was mad. Another likened it to the wild wild west, "just pulled out a gun".

You can see the man lunge and appear to take a swipe with his left arm but I can't see a knife. He has an umbrella in his right hand which was nearer the woman but didn't swing that. She clearly has the rifle out and close to him BEFORE he swipes at her. Was he defending himself from her gun threat?

The tape stops before the shots, plural, were fired. I've got to believe there's more footage than what was shown.

She claims she shot into the ground (concrete) and he was killed by a richochet.

I spent a half hour reading Texas law trying to determine if it's legal to have a loaded rifle in your car. Didn't find out. You don't need a permit to have a rifle in the car but carrying it loaded strikes me as suspicious.

In the first linked article in this thread, her P.C. with Quannell X, she noted she left and went home as she feared for her life from friends of the deceased. But she was in such great fear that she walked about casually taking photos of the scene before leaving. Police weren't notified until sometime after she got home.

72 hour and she's "not been arrested for killing someone".

So far no demonstrations aside from the P.C. Guess no one's hired a press agent to get the word out.

Whoever is in charge of this case apparently learned from Sanford. This case is being sent to a Grand Jury to see if CHARGES should be filed not because they have been filed.

Texas is a SYG state so I expect she walks but there's some explaining to do and possibly some other charges. He swipes at her but AFTER she has the rifle pointing in his direction, she was carrying a loaded rifle in the car, she didn't call police or wait for them as she claimed she feared for her life from his unseen friends but she casually took photos post killing.

Great break down as you saw it.
Some things sound odd but we're only being given little snippets so far.
Gonna have to wait until more facts come out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

The fact that we are all asking these questions should make everyone uneasy.

Stand by. The entire public is being educated on how to take a human life and not have to pay for it. Years ago it was about right and wrong. Now it is about stand your ground justification. Watch the numbers climb. The real bonanza for the gun companies will be when guns used in homicides are destroyed. (Most effective gun law able to be passed.) Then they get to sell replacement guns, until they run out of people.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...You can see the man lunge and appear to take a swipe with his left arm but I can't see a knife. He has an umbrella in his right hand which was nearer the woman but didn't swing that. She clearly has the rifle out and close to him BEFORE he swipes at her. Was he defending himself from her gun threat?

...

It's a tough case but, without more, I'd probably say she's not guilty if I were on the jury.

I just can't believe the chutzpah of these leaders openly defending the killing of a possibly unarmed man in self-defense, when just two days prior they were leading marches across the city claiming the exact opposite. And demaning national changes in state self-defense laws.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It's a tough case but, without more, I'd probably say she's not guilty if I were on the jury.

I just can't believe the chutzpah of these leaders openly defending the killing of a possibly unarmed man in self-defense, when just two days prior they were leading marches across the city claiming the exact opposite. And demaning national changes in state self-defense laws.

Because he wasn't unarmed?


lol. see the facts. See the police report.

 

[Golden_Domer]

Here's some video of the exchange. One witness said she shot at him 4-5 times. What I find appalling is her casual reaction to it all. Instead of calling 911 after she shoots him, she casually continues to pump gas and then goes over to the body of the victim and takes a picture or video of the body. Wtf is wrong with her?

Imagine how much more of a $hit storm there would be (if that's even possible) if Zimmerman had 1) shot at TM 4-5 times instead of once, 2) never called 911 and 3) had taken a cell phone picture or video of Martin's dead body.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=578a9f44ec8f" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[GoIrish41]

The tape should help but without audio it not going to show who said what to who. There were at least two witnessess within 10 - 15 feet.

Here's a snippet of tape from a KHOU article:

HPD: Rifle-toting woman shoots, kills man outside gas station in SE Houston | khou.com Houston

When the tape starts she already has her trunk/hatch open. There's no mention of whether she had a gas can in the trunk otherwise why open the trunk to fill the car's tank?

Did the 58 year old harass her or did she bait him? And when he came near pulled out the weapon and shot him. One witness said he was mad. Another likened it to the wild wild west, "just pulled out a gun".

You can see the man lunge and appear to take a swipe with his left arm but I can't see a knife. He has an umbrella in his right hand which was nearer the woman but didn't swing that. She clearly has the rifle out and close to him BEFORE he swipes at her. Was he defending himself from her gun threat?

The tape stops before the shots, plural, were fired. I've got to believe there's more footage than what was shown.

She claims she shot into the ground (concrete) and he was killed by a richochet.

I spent a half hour reading Texas law trying to determine if it's legal to have a loaded rifle in your car. Didn't find out. You don't need a permit to have a rifle in the car but carrying it loaded strikes me as suspicious.

In the first linked article in this thread, her P.C. with Quannell X, she noted she left and went home as she feared for her life from friends of the deceased. But she was in such great fear that she walked about casually taking photos of the scene before leaving. Police weren't notified until sometime after she got home.

72 hour and she's "not been arrested for killing someone".

So far no demonstrations aside from the P.C. Guess no one's hired a press agent to get the word out.

Whoever is in charge of this case apparently learned from Sanford. This case is being sent to a Grand Jury to see if CHARGES should be filed not because they have been filed.

Texas is a SYG state so I expect she walks but there's some explaining to do and possibly some other charges. He swipes at her but AFTER she has the rifle pointing in his direction, she was carrying a loaded rifle in the car, she didn't call police or wait for them as she claimed she feared for her life from his unseen friends but she casually took photos post killing.

That is what I think we're seeing in the video. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be, and we can't hear what is going on, but the gun was clearly out before he took a swing at her. If she's not been arrested, Texas' law is just as fvcked as Florida's.

Incidently, all you people who debated the nonsensical nature of my idea that Zimmerman may have had a gun out already and that is what started the altercation with Martin, please take note of the video. It appears that there are people who would take a swing at someone with a gun pulled on them.

 

[BGIF]

Here's some video of the exchange. One witness said she shot at him 4-5 times. What I find appalling is her casual reaction to it all. Instead of calling 911 after she shoots him, she casually continues to pump gas and then goes over to the body of the victim and takes a picture or video of the body. Wtf is wrong with her?

Imagine how much more of a $hit storm there would be (if that's even possible) if Zimmerman had 1) shot at TM 4-5 times instead of once, 2) never called 911 and 3) had taken a cell phone picture or video of Martin's dead body.

...

That shows a little more video than the one I posted.

This reporter notes that police tracked her down through a witness recording her license plate which conflicts with the first story posted that claimed she called police afer going home first as she feared for her life.

 

[irishpat183]

Yep, calling people stupid (and making Nazi references) should get some backlash.

IrishPat, in particular, has been very respectful on the other side of the discussion.



And for the record, Pat defended the tone of Rhode's posts earlier in the thread. He's consistent.

Hey...As long as people know what they're gettting with me, I can live with it. I mean nothing personal to anyone, it's just how I am.

I understand how I come off....I make no apologies. And I ask none of anyone else.

 

[irishpat183]

Here's some video of the exchange. One witness said she shot at him 4-5 times. What I find appalling is her casual reaction to it all. Instead of calling 911 after she shoots him, she casually continues to pump gas and then goes over to the body of the victim and takes a picture or video of the body. Wtf is wrong with her?

Imagine how much more of a $hit storm there would be (if that's even possible) if Zimmerman had 1) shot at TM 4-5 times instead of once, 2) never called 911 and 3) had taken a cell phone picture or video of Martin's dead body.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=578a9f44ec8f" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Exactly....Think about this: there was a shitstorm and they didn't even have an proof of wrong doing by GZ in the first place!!!!

And by the way...this is a total shithole of an area in HTown

 

[GoIrish41]

Hey...As long as people know what they're gettting with me, I can live with it. I mean nothing personal to anyone, it's just how I am.

I understand how I come off....I make no apologies. And I ask none of anyone else.

We love ya Pat. If you didn't go over the top, some of us wouldn't know what was on the other side.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Hey...As long as people know what they're gettting with me, I can live with it. I mean nothing personal to anyone, it's just how I am.

I understand how I come off....I make no apologies. And I ask none of anyone else.

Fair enough. I've figured it out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Exactly....Think about this: there was a shitstorm and they didn't even have an proof of wrong doing by GZ in the first place!!!!

And by the way...this is a total shithole of an area in HTown

Pat,

I do believe you are looking at it backwards; with GZ there was proof of stupidity and no proof of doing things right. This woman pulled a long gun, not a handgun. Then she fired a warning shot. Then she killed him. She followed the NRA instruction booklet to a "T".

And by the way, what are the chances of a part of HTown not being "a total shiithole of an area?" lol.

 

[BGIF]

Pat,

I do believe you are looking at it backwards; with GZ there was proof of stupidity and no proof of doing things right. This woman pulled a long gun, not a handgun. Then she fired a warning shot. Then she killed him. She followed the NRA instruction booklet to a "T".

And by the way, what are the chances of a part of HTown not being "a total shiithole of an area?" lol.

Yeah, the stupidity of a broken nose sucker punch and a concrete sidewalk headbashing.


A long gun already loaded that she had conveniently at hand in her open trunk while Zimmerman was on his back with the gun underneath and his athletic, 160 pound assailant on top of him. How athletic was that 58 year old?

Warning shot? Which of the 5 was that?

Then after killing him she calmly took pictures then left as she was in constant fear for her life. So scared the police had to track her down from her license plate.

In contrast Zimmerman spoke with the police, police he had called prior to Martin attacking him, and cooperated fully with the police. He didn't invoke 5th amendent. He didn't flee the scene. He didn't take pictures of the scene. He didn't have a community activist hold a press conference for him.

 

[irishpat183]

Pat,

I do believe you are looking at it backwards; with GZ there was proof of stupidity and no proof of doing things right. This woman pulled a long gun, not a handgun. Then she fired a warning shot. Then she killed him. She followed the NRA instruction booklet to a "T".

And by the way, what are the chances of a part of HTown not being "a total shiithole of an area?" lol.

LOL....Very sketchy area.

Legally is the key word. GZ didn't do anything illegally. And there was no proof he "did things wrong".

Again, lets leave emotion out of it

 

[Irish Houstonian]

The couple that GZ saved the other day have now cancelled their public appearence, for fear of "blow back from saying anything favorable about George".

Makes you wonder whether the good is beating the bad in this country.

Family Rescued by George Zimmerman Fears 'Blow Back' - ABC News

 

[BGIF]

The couple that GZ saved the other day have now cancelled their public appearence, for fear of "blow back from saying anything favorable about George".

Makes you wonder whether the good is beating the bad in this country.

Family Rescued by George Zimmerman Fears 'Blow Back' - ABC News

No good deed goes unpunished.

Oscar Wilde

 

[Emcee77]

Today in Houston, Black community leaders are rallying to support a black woman who shot a panhandler at a gas station. Supposedly the women felt threatened.

While getting gas she went to her trunk, got a rifle and killed him. She claimed that she thought he had a knife, was "harassing her", and felt threatened.

I have no idea whether the killing was justified, but this very same group had their Zimmerman protest two days ago....Facepalm.

Houston woman says she killed man in self-defense - Houston Chronicle

Holy ****. After watching that video, I cannot believe people want to support that woman. Sure, the guy took a swing at her, but then he started running away. What, did she shoot him in the back?? And she wants to claim self-defense?? Unbelievable.

 

[GUknights75]

George Zimmerman Stoned Trayvon Martin: Deuteronomy 21 : 18 - 21 - YouTube

Preaching the truth! One of the best videos I have seen about this case because if this was a white man saying this, it would be RACIST!

Could someone embed this? reps will follow

Edit: I will be clear that I do not agree 100% to everything he says and I am not a very religious person. With that said he brings up many valid points that should be taken into consideration, especially when/if it comes to a civil trial. It's some pretty powerful stuff.

 

[Golden_Domer]

Could someone embed this? reps will follow

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/L9s900vZr_k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Embedded

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of Golden_Domer

 

[Irish Insanity]

stand your ground, Rhode


i kid i kid HCTI...

No Rhode, don't stand your ground. It may cost you your life

*in no reference to HCTI

 

[Booslum31]

The couple that GZ saved the other day have now cancelled their public appearence, for fear of "blow back from saying anything favorable about George".

Makes you wonder whether the good is beating the bad in this country.

Family Rescued by George Zimmerman Fears 'Blow Back' - ABC News

Shame on anyone who would "blow back". Shame....used to mean something.

 

[kmoose]

Thanks for the surveillance tape link BTW. Would like to see the ends of that tape for sure. As you say, How did the trunk come to be open is something I would want to know...and yea, I'd like to see the actual fatal exchange...and what happened after.

Carlos Hyde came flying in from off camera and sucker punched her. Or maybe he didn't. Film at 11....

 

[jmurphy75]

Pat,

I do believe you are looking at it backwards; with GZ there was proof of stupidity and no proof of doing things right. This woman pulled a long gun, not a handgun. Then she fired a warning shot. Then she killed him. She followed the NRA instruction booklet to a "T".

And by the way, what are the chances of a part of HTown not being "a total shiithole of an area?" lol.

Bogs, we've gone back and forth with opinions on this thread with some form of respect for each others opinion, but if you are seriously trying to compare the two situations.....you need to put the coo coo back in the clock dude. This lady was never assulted physically and shot the man while he was running away after her alleged warning shot...never mind you won't listen.....how do I keep getting sucked back into this thread

 

[phgreek]

Carlos Hyde came flying in from off camera and sucker punched her. Or maybe he didn't. Film at 11....

...that's funny...

...and yes I am well aware I jumped on Hyde all too quickly because of the program and reputation of his coach...that was crappy. I was absolved of my sins by a senior poster via PM after I saw the error in my ways and said 25 hail jasons (since I don't know who else to hail around here).

 

[kmoose]

...that's funny...

...and yes I am well aware I jumped on Hyde all too quickly because of the program and reputation of his coach...that was crappy. I was absolved of my sins by a senior poster via PM after I saw the error in my ways and said 25 hail jasons (since I don't know who else to hail around here).

Most of us were pretty much ready to assume the worst. And the worst might still be the truth. I didn't mean to single you out. You just wondered, aloud, what might be at the end of that tape.

 

[phgreek]

Most of us were pretty much ready to assume the worst. And the worst might still be the truth. I didn't mean to single you out. You just wondered, aloud, what might be at the end of that tape.

...its cool, and I know what you were saying...I was just using the opportunity to admit to being a sh!t re: Hyde.

 

[BGIF]

...that's funny...

...and yes I am well aware I jumped on Hyde all too quickly because of the program and reputation of his coach...that was crappy. I was absolved of my sins by a senior poster via PM after I saw the error in my ways and said 25 hail jasons (since I don't know who else to hail around here).

You could Hail Bogs or depending political affiliation, Hale Boggs, the House Majority Leader who disappeared in '72 to the relief of Nixon and created a job opportunity for Tip O'Neill.