George Zimmerman Trial

[ND NYC]

so would he be able to legally conceal carry a gun registered in someone elses name?

 

[drayer54]

so would he be able to legally conceal carry a gun registered in someone elses name?

Why or how would the gun be registered?

Why does it matter what gun he carried?

If he passes the background check to obtain a CCW, he can conceal a 8" bbl Python if he wants.

I wouldn't trust my life with a Kel-tec, but it worked out.

 

[FLDomer]

so would he be able to legally conceal carry a gun registered in someone elses name?

Yes, if the one whos firearm it is has given permission to the carrier.

 

[ND NYC]

Yes, if the one whos firearm it is has given permission to the carrier.

i doubt his wife would have, as she had a restraining order on GZ (as he did on her)

 

[irishpat183]

I'm still trying to follow this based on the presentation of evidence.

My takeaway reading this site and listening to the media

...a lot of "attitude" is ascribed to Mr. Zimmerman's alleged "actions/conduct".

As relates to "actions/conduct" from Mr. Martin actually entered into evidence, great effort is taken to not ascribe "attitudes" e.g. "Crazy *** Cracker".

...outside that, much left to be presented...

No ****. Great point.

It's all about attiude and what GZ was supposedly acting like.

Who the hell says TM wasn't casing houses!!!! If we're going to "assume" that GZ was some renegade cop wannabe...let's "assume" that TM was some punk cases houses at night.

 

[FLDomer]

i doubt his wife would have, as she had a restraining order on GZ (as he did on her)

Was the gun for a fact owned by his wife? I was under belief that he and his wife were living together, I know a neighbor was asked and did call his wife when the police were handcuffing him after the shooting.

Did a little digging and the restraining order was filed by his ex-fiance and is married to a different woman.

 

[irishpat183]

Nothing George Zimmerman did made any "sense". He seemed to escalate the situation for the worst at every turn due to his bad decision making beginning with going out to "patrol" the neighborhood with a loaded firearm.

It made absolute sense. He saw a suspicious person walking around his neighborhood at night and confronted them to see what they were up too. A fight broke out, he was getting beat up, so he shot the guy in self defense.

What doesn't make sense about that? (in the legal sense, not your opinion)

 

[irishpat183]

I've only watched a little of the trial, but living in Orlando its on 24/7. If I remember correctly one of the witnesses said the exact opposite of that. One of the neighbors said that after the shots were fired the person on top was the one who got up. The person on the bottom didn't move after the shots.

I've never heard that. I've always heard that the witness saw TM on top of GZ.

He'd be guilty by now if your witness existed.

 

[irishpat183]

In all fairness, this is a guy that called 911 46 times in 8 years prior to this situation. It is reasonable to believe that GZ always felt as if he was "on the ole beat".

so that makes him a murderer?

Cause I know some old lady's that probably call the cops more than that! LOL...


That argument is garbage. All kinds of people call the cops for all kinds of crap these days. While I feel it's a waste of public servants time, it's their job. Was GZ an idiot that cried wolf too many times? Probably....But it has nothing to do with this case. At all.

 

[FLDomer]

I've only watched a little of the trial, but living in Orlando its on 24/7. If I remember correctly one of the witnesses said the exact opposite of that. One of the neighbors said that after the shots were fired the person on top was the one who got up. The person on the bottom didn't move after the shots.

And this is why that witness is being discredited. They said they heard 3 shots when there was only 1 shot fired. GZ also admitted he was on top of TM after the shot was fired because he was initially unaware he hit TM and got on top, thinking to restrain him after the fight and shot was fired.

 

[ND NYC]

It made absolute sense. He saw a suspicious person walking around his neighborhood at night and confronted them to see what they were up too. A fight broke out, he was getting beat up, so he shot the guy in self defense.

What doesn't make sense about that? (in the legal sense, not your opinion)

if he was a uniformed police officer, i wouldnt have a probem with him checking out what was going on.
but as far as i know, he was alone, in his own Unmarked) truck, in plainclothes when he started his "pursuit" of TM. so to TM, he was some dude follwoing him around. what would YOU do?

also from legal standpoint (correct me if im wrong here) arent authrized "neighborhood watch" units required to "patrol" in pairs (min of 2 people)? (not allowed do them solo/rogue)

 

[FLDomer]

if he was a uniformed police officer, i wouldnt have a probem with him checking out what was going on.
but as far as i know, he was alone, in his own Unmarked) truck, in plainclothes when he started his "pursuit" of TM. so to TM, he was some dude follwoing him around. what would YOU do?

also from legal standpoint (correct me if im wrong here) arent authrized "neighborhood watch" units required to "patrol" in pairs (min of 2 people)? (not allowed do them solo/rogue)

It would depend what the HOA guidelines are for their neighborhood watch program. Also it was stated he was not on a "patrol" but noticed TM while going to the grocery store.

 

[irishpat183]

if he was a uniformed police officer, i wouldnt have a probem with him checking out what was going on.
but as far as i know, he was alone, in his own Unmarked) truck, in plainclothes when he started his "pursuit" of TM. so to TM, he was some dude follwoing him around. what would YOU do?

also from legal standpoint (correct me if im wrong here) arent authrized "neighborhood watch" units required to "patrol" in pairs (min of 2 people)? (not allowed do them solo/rogue)

Again, GZ is guilty of nothing other than doing something that you may not "agree" with. There is the problem. In order to go to jail, you have to break a law. Not make unpopular decisions.

And I'm not sure about the neighborhood watch deal, but again, even if not...it's not illegal to follow someone and check out what they are doing

 

[woolybug25]

so that makes him a murderer?

Cause I know some old lady's that probably call the cops more than that! LOL...


That argument is garbage. All kinds of people call the cops for all kinds of crap these days. While I feel it's a waste of public servants time, it's their job. Was GZ an idiot that cried wolf too many times? Probably....But it has nothing to do with this case. At all.

Listen Pat. Why don't you just not post in these types of threads if you can't help but to be an @sshole? There is no need to be so argumentative. Did you not learn anything when you were put on "vacation"? You constantly have to walk the tightrope of being banned don't you?

I literally just stated a fact about him being a regular caller of 911, and that while he wasn't on patrol, one could assume that GZ always kept his watch up. There was literally nothing controversial about what I said. I wasn't even arguing with anybody and certainly didn't make any "garbage" argument.

Sheesh... if this kitchen is too hot for you to be a rational poster, then post in the other threads, my man. There are a lot of people that want to have peaceful debate/discussion on this topic and nobody needs your interwebs-bully routine around here.

 

[ND NYC]

Again, GZ is guilty of nothing other than doing something that you may not "agree" with. There is the problem. In order to go to jail, you have to break a law. Not make unpopular decisions.

And I'm not sure about the neighborhood watch deal, but again, even if not...it's not illegal to follow someone and check out what they are doing

hes guilty of killing an innocent kid, he had no legal right to do so, stand your ground or not. to me TM was the one with the right to "stand HIS ground." here. TM is dead so we will NEVER know he side of how all this went down, only GZs, who shot him. on that there is no dispute.

I'd love to see YOUR reaction if your waling down the street, at night, in the rain, and some you've never met or seen before rollls up near you, in an SUV, not wearing any uniform, gets out of his car and starts asking you what YOU were doing, where YOU were going.
i'm sure you would have happily answered all his questions, yes sir no sir as he asked them and said good day sir have a nice evening once you answered all of his questions to his satisfaction.

 

[irishpat183]

Listen Pat. Why don't you just not post in these types of threads if you can't help but to be an @sshole? There is no need to be so argumentative. Did you not learn anything when you were put on "vacation"? You constantly have to walk the tightrope of being banned don't you?

I literally just stated a fact about him being a regular caller of 911, and that while he wasn't on patrol, one could assume that GZ always kept his watch up. There was literally nothing controversial about what I said. I wasn't even arguing with anybody and certainly didn't make any "garbage" argument.

Sheesh... if this kitchen is too hot for you to be a rational poster, then post in the other threads, my man. There are a lot of people that want to have peaceful debate/discussion on this topic and nobody needs your interwebs-bully routine around here.

WHOA NOW!

I wasn't trying to be rude. Just pointing out that the 46 calls to police is a crap argument. It's not a reflection of you as a person. The argument just flat out sucks. In fact, you aren't the only one that has brought this up. So It wasn't really soley directed at you(maybe I should've pointed that out, my bad). I said nothing rude about you....

 

[woolybug25]

WHOA NOW!

I wasn't trying to be rude. Just pointing out that the 46 calls to police is a crap argument. It's not a reflection of you as a person. The argument just flat out sucks. In fact, you aren't the only one that has brought this up. So It wasn't really soley directed at you(maybe I should've pointed that out, my bad). I said nothing rude about you....

"crap argument"

"flat out sucks"

Why can't you just post like a normal person? Why are you so damn angry all of the time? You can't expect people to respect your opinion when you use verbage that clearly shows that you don't give two $hits about theirs. If you can't play nice in the sand box, then don't play in it.

Again... crap argument about what? That GZ was a guy that liked to play cop? Regardless of whether one's opinion thinks of him as guilty or innocent, I think you would be hard pressed to find many people that don't agree with that statement. Which it was... a statement, not an argument.

 

[irishpat183]

hes guilty of killing an innocent kid, he had no legal right to do so, stand your ground or not. to me TM was the one with the right to "stand HIS ground." here. TM is dead so we will NEVER know he side of how all this went down, only GZs, who shot him. on that there is no dispute.

I'd love to see YOUR reaction if your waling down the street, at night, in the rain, and some you've never met or seen before rollls up near you, in an SUV, not wearing any uniform, gets out of his car and starts asking you what YOU were doing, where YOU were going.
i'm sure you would have happily answered all his questions, yes sir no sir as he asked them and said good day sir have a nice evening once you answered all of his questions to his satisfaction.

My reaction would be to ask the guy what he wants and explain what I was doing. And yes, if he was older than I?? I'd be respectful. Because I was raised that way. What do you have to lose by explaining yourself? Oh, you gotta be cool guy and act like a thug and not explain and kick some ***?

Again, you're trying to convince me that GZ was out to kill TM that night. That this poor, little baby boy was lost in the rain and the big bad wolf gunned him down. That's just not true. And we all seem to ignore that this hood had some recent crime problems. You are simply lying to yourself if you, or anyone else on this board, says they woudln't be intersted in what some young kid was doing roaming the streets in your neighborhood at night if there was a recent crime wave. Stop with the lies. We'd all want to know and some of us would even call the cops ourselves...or confront the teenager ourselves.

TM not only had a history of violence, but actually beat up GZ that night (and eyewitness saw it). GZ had the right to not only carry a gun according to the states law, but use it if he felt his life was threatened. Which he did, and tragically, TM was killed.

And again, this is a horrble deal and I feel sorry for both families. I couldn't imagine losing one of my kids like that.

 

[irishpat183]

"crap argument"

"flat out sucks"

Why can't you just post like a normal person? Why are you so damn angry all of the time? You can't expect people to respect your opinion when you use verbage that clearly shows that you don't give two $hits about theirs. If you can't play nice in the sand box, then don't play in it.

Again... crap argument about what? That GZ was a guy that liked to play cop? Regardless of whether one's opinion thinks of him as guilty or innocent, I think you would be hard pressed to find many people that don't agree with that statement. Which it was... a statement, not an argument.

so you're saying that I'm not normal.....offensive!!!

I'm not angry. Who said I'm angry? Dude, I'm just very direct and quite frankly, I don't have the time to type everything out so nice like.

It's not that I'm trying to be rude, that's just how I am.

 

[Wild Bill]

hes guilty of killing an innocent kid, he had no legal right to do so, stand your ground or not. to me TM was the one with the right to "stand HIS ground." here. TM is dead so we will NEVER know he side of how all this went down, only GZs, who shot him. on that there is no dispute.

I'd love to see YOUR reaction if your waling down the street, at night, in the rain, and some you've never met or seen before rollls up near you, in an SUV, not wearing any uniform, gets out of his car and starts asking you what YOU were doing, where YOU were going.
i'm sure you would have happily answered all his questions, yes sir no sir as he asked them and said good day sir have a nice evening once you answered all of his questions to his satisfaction.

I would have introduced myself and explained that I'm walking home from the convenience store. Under the circumstances, it strikes me as more reasonable than attacking someone. (only assuming TM attacked GZ).

 

[irishpat183]

I would have introduced myself and explained that I'm walking home from the convenience store. Under the circumstances, it strikes me as more reasonable than attacking someone. (only assuming TM attacked GZ).

Exactly. There would be on confrontation. Just me explaining to an adult what I was doing out.

I got nothing to prove.

 

[jmurphy75]

My reaction would be to ask the guy what he wants and explain what I was doing. And yes, if he was older than I?? I'd be respectful. Because I was raised that way. What do you have to lose by explaining yourself? Oh, you gotta be cool guy and act like a thug and not explain and kick some ***?

Again, you're trying to convince me that GZ was out to kill TM that night. That this poor, little baby boy was lost in the rain and the big bad wolf gunned him down. That's just not true. And we all seem to ignore that this hood had some recent crime problems. You are simply lying to yourself if you, or anyone else on this board, says they woudln't be intersted in what some young kid was doing roaming the streets in your neighborhood at night if there was a recent crime wave. Stop with the lies. We'd all want to know and some of us would even call the cops ourselves...or confront the teenager ourselves.

TM not only had a history of violence, but actually beat up GZ that night (and eyewitness saw it). GZ had the right to not only carry a gun according to the states law, but use it if he felt his life was threatened. Which he did, and tragically, TM was killed.

And again, this is a horrble deal and I feel sorry for both families. I couldn't imagine losing one of my kids like that.

Good post, I agree with everything you said

 

[goldandblue]

hes guilty of killing an innocent kid, he had no legal right to do so, stand your ground or not. to me TM was the one with the right to "stand HIS ground." here. TM is dead so we will NEVER know he side of how all this went down, only GZs, who shot him. on that there is no dispute.

I'd love to see YOUR reaction if your waling down the street, at night, in the rain, and some you've never met or seen before rollls up near you, in an SUV, not wearing any uniform, gets out of his car and starts asking you what YOU were doing, where YOU were going.
i'm sure you would have happily answered all his questions, yes sir no sir as he asked them and said good day sir have a nice evening once you answered all of his questions to his satisfaction.

LOL... You sir are full of ****... So it is perfectly fine to attack someone because they are following you and curious to what you are doing but not ok to defend your self... Your logic is all f'ed up.

 

[SaltyND24]

It made absolute sense. He saw a suspicious person walking around his neighborhood at night and confronted them to see what they were up too. A fight broke out, he was getting beat up, so he shot the guy in self defense.

What doesn't make sense about that? (in the legal sense, not your opinion)

Just jumping in so forgive me if I've already missed this point being touched, but what exactly made TM suspicious on that tragic night? Was it the fact that TM was an unknown (to GZ) black kid walking inside of a gated community that had a string of robberies or was it his attire? Hate to make this a race issue, but I don't see how TM being black didn't have at least a little bit to do with his "suspicion" that night. Already there he has profiled TM. Now, did GZ know that 100% of the recent rash of crimes were committed by black teenagers? I'm going to go with no. Let me get one thing straight, as paranoid as he was, GZ calling the cops a million times, while over zealous isn't a crime. What makes very little sense is as a Neighborhood watchman, his job isn't to confront and follow...He simply makes the call and let's the law get to it when they decide to. Him carrying a loaded gun, though he has the right to, was reckless given that it wasn't as if he was protecting his own home with it and was compounded in his decision to follow and ultimately confront TM. Now, the question is whether GZ or TM threw the first punch? If GZ threw it, then the charge as is may stick. Self-defense isn't hitting someone and then getting your a** kicked to the point where you feel you need to shoot someone...Honestly, Manslaughter makes much more sense than Murder in this unfortunate ordeal.

 

[IrishLax]

hes guilty of killing an innocent kid, he had no legal right to do so, stand your ground or not. to me TM was the one with the right to "stand HIS ground." here. TM is dead so we will NEVER know he side of how all this went down, only GZs, who shot him. on that there is no dispute.

Sorry, but this is simply not how the law works. At all. In fact, it shows a complete lack of understanding of any of pertinent legal tenets.

Simply put, there is nothing illegal about carrying a gun. There is nothing illegal about following someone in your car in your neighborhood. At absolute worst you could say that is stalking; and even criminal stalking does not give you the right to assault the stalker (if that is what Martin did... or as you put it "stand HIS ground").

I'd love to see YOUR reaction if your waling down the street, at night, in the rain, and some you've never met or seen before rollls up near you, in an SUV, not wearing any uniform, gets out of his car and starts asking you what YOU were doing, where YOU were going.
i'm sure you would have happily answered all his questions, yes sir no sir as he asked them and said good day sir have a nice evening once you answered all of his questions to his satisfaction.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh........ I'd probably be very alert and answer the questions and also ask a few of my own. I sure as hell wouldn't pick a fight with the guy... which seems to be what you're suggesting is the "reasonable" or "normal" thing to do. In fact, I don't know anyone that would do that.

 

[woolybug25]

Just jumping in so forgive me if I've already missed this point being touched, but what exactly made TM suspicious on that tragic night? Was it the fact that TM was an unknown (to GZ) black kid walking inside of a gated community that had a string of robberies or was it his attire? Hate to make this a race issue, but I don't see how TM being black didn't have at least a little bit to do with his "suspicion" that night. Already there he has profiled TM. Now, did GZ know that 100% of the recent rash of crimes were committed by black teenagers? I'm going to go with no. Let me get one thing straight, as paranoid as he was, GZ calling the cops a million times, while over zealous isn't a crime. What makes very little sense is as a Neighborhood watchman, his job isn't to confront and follow...He simply makes the call and let's the law get to it when they decide to. Him carrying a loaded gun, though he has the right to, was reckless given that it wasn't as if he was protecting his own home with it and was compounded in his decision to follow and ultimately confront TM. Now, the question is whether GZ or TM threw the first punch? If GZ threw it, then the charge as is may stick. Self-defense isn't hitting someone and then getting your a** kicked to the point where you feel you need to shoot someone...Honestly, Manslaughter makes much more sense than Murder in this unfortunate ordeal.

Here is a link to the 46 calls he made to 911 since 2004. Kinda helps frame the type of things he found suspicious.

46 Calls - The Daily Beast

 

[woolybug25]

I think all of the hyperbole about "what would you do if someone was chasing you" is silly. None of us know yet for sure how the interaction occurred, what was said, etc. How does anyone really know if it was reasonable for TM to defend himself?

Once (if) we know more about exactly the moment of the altercation occurred, then we will know what was reasonable.

All of the "it was reasonable" or "it wasn't reasonable" talk is based entirely on opinion right now.

I'm sure it wont stop pat from telling you how stupid you are for it though.

 

[ND NYC]

Sorry, but this is simply not how the law works. At all. In fact, it shows a complete lack of understanding of any of pertinent legal tenets.

Simply put, there is nothing illegal about carrying a gun. There is nothing illegal about following someone in your car in your neighborhood. At absolute worst you could say that is stalking; and even criminal stalking does not give you the right to assault the stalker (if that is what Martin did... or as you put it "stand HIS ground").



Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh........ I'd probably be very alert and answer the questions and also ask a few of my own. I sure as hell wouldn't pick a fight with the guy... which seems to be what you're suggesting is the "reasonable" or "normal" thing to do. In fact, I don't know anyone that would do that.

what exactly is a legal "tenet"?

never said anythng wrong with carrying a gun legally, my problem is using it to shoot a kid who you confronted. you know damn well this guy isnt confronting anybody without his sidearm. his neghborhood watch "responsibilities" stopped the minute he called 911 and they told him "we'll take it from here. do not pursue." from that moment on in my book he is just acting on his own and in no "official/quasii-official/even wannage capacity". at that point hes a vigilante in my book. he needed to and should have called the professionals a/k/a the REAL cops and now a kid is dead because this guy is an overzealous idiot who didnt know what the hell he was doing, and got in over his head.

your assumig TM picked the fight in the first place here...we'll never know who started as only 2 people know exactly whhat happened and one of them is DEAD.

 

[IrishLax]

what exactly is a legal "tenet"?

never said anythng wrong with carrying a gun legally, my problem is using it to shoot a kid who you confronted. you know damn well this guy isnt confronting anybody without his sidearm. his neghborhood watch "responsibilities" stopped the minute he called 911 and they told him "we'll take it from here. do not pursue." from that moment on in my book he is just acting on his own and in no "official/quasii-official/even wannage capacity". at that point hes a vigilante in my book. he needed to and should have called the professionals a/k/a the REAL cops and now a kid is dead because this guy is an overzealous idiot who didnt know what the hell he was doing, and got in over his head.

your assumig TM picked the fight in the first place here...we'll never know who started as only 2 people know exactly whhat happened and one of them is DEAD.

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post here for a second and just focus on the part I bolded above.

I made the effort to purposely put "if" in bold, underline, and italics in my post to emphasize that I am NOT assuming that and simply responding in hypothetical to your post that assumes Zimmerman is the aggressor.

The fact that you missed that just shows how little effort your putting forth here to have an honest discussion. You clearly have your mind made up on a certain version of events and don't care to consider any other angles even for discussion purposes.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I've never heard that. I've always heard that the witness saw TM on top of GZ.

He'd be guilty by now if your witness existed.

Three witnesses saw GZ on top of TM, including the guy that took the pictures. They all testified last week.

About the charges. There are guidelines as to what a prosecutor has to charge a perpetrator with. I don't understand them, in Florida especially. But I understand the local prosecutor didn't file charges because of the ambiguity as to whether the evidence would have convicted him of second degree murder. Remember the local prosecutor was forced to file charges by the Atty General of Fla.