'14 MO DE Jonathan Bonner (Notre Dame Signee)

[Rhode Irish]

I WANT to use != in my posts, but then I get all OCD and refrain on the grounds some people do not know != means not equal. Programmers unite!

Props on your bold usage.

I'm not a programmer but that seems like a pretty simple thing to figure out with context clues.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Yeah but Alabama offers (not committable) another low 3 OL from St. Louis and instantly he becomes a 90 Rating 4 . Raymond (the kid i sent u) visits Bama and what do ya know? He's now a 90 Rating 4 too

It's hilarious how arbitrary some recruits' rankings are.

I know this is not directly related to the point that I was trying to make last night, but my annoyance in all of this is that people act disappointed when a kid commits based SOLELY on where/how the recruiting services rank the kid. And, in my opinion, the recruiting services' rankings are not reliable enough to base your opinion on, especially when your opinion is that a kid that was invited to join your football family doesn't belong. I'm sorry, but because of how bad of a look that is, you really have to be pretty damn sure that a kid can't play before you start voicing that kind of opinion. And unless you are qualified to be a BCS football coach, I don't think your opinion of their tape is good enough, and I damn sure don't think relying on scouting services is good enough.

 

[Andy in Sactown]

I'm not a programmer but that seems like a pretty simple thing to figure out with context clues.

You'd think, alas..

Re: Jonathan Bonner, the point about Zeke being a mid 3 star this time of year and MO in general being under-scouted (?) as far a rating guys was ****ing spot on. Star chasers be damned.*

*And by this I don't mean the people that want to use the star / ratings / rankings systems as metrics to compare classes / athletes on or after NSD, I'm talking about the people that want 4-5 star guys at this time of year and look down at guys because they're not ranked highly. Coincidentally the same people who rarely eat crow when they skyrocket up the rankings their senior seasons.

 

[koonja]

I know this is not directly related to the point that I was trying to make last night, but my annoyance in all of this is that people act disappointed when a kid commits based SOLELY on where/how the recruiting services rank the kid. And, in my opinion, the recruiting services' rankings are not reliable enough to base your opinion on, especially when your opinion is that a kid that was invited to join your football family doesn't belong. I'm sorry, but because of how bad of a look that is, you really have to be pretty damn sure that a kid can't play before you start voicing that kind of opinion. And unless you are qualified to be a BCS football coach, I don't think your opinion of their tape is good enough, and I damn sure don't think relying on scouting services is good enough.

So, in your opinion, it is out of line to say "IMO, based on his film, he didn't look athletic enough for the position".

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I WANT to use != in my posts, but then I get all OCD and refrain on the grounds some people do not know != means not equal. Programmers unite!

Props on your bold usage.

What about <>

 

[Andy in Sactown]

What about <>

The padawans may not know SQL. And context clues may not be enough since it lacks the = character. Keep dropping knowledge bombs like this and you'll never be rated a mid to low 3 star.

 

[Domina Nostra]

So, in your opinion, it is out of line to say "IMO, based on his film, he didn't look athletic enough for the position".

It seems pretty clear, though, that his tape did not earn him the offer. It's legit to question his tape, but we pretty much know that its the personal appearances that have impressed.

 

[dwshade]

So, in your opinion, it is out of line to say "IMO, based on his film, he didn't look athletic enough for the position".

I'm finding out IMO is a must on this board.

 

[Rhode Irish]

So, in your opinion, it is out of line to say "IMO, based on his film, he didn't look athletic enough for the position".

I don't know about out of line, but I certainly don't care about anyone's opinion about stuff like that. You think you noticed something on a couple minutes of film that escaped the coaches in all of the diligence they do on a kid before they offer them a scholarship?

 

[koonja]

Personally, I didn't see much to get me excited on his film. He didn't seem overly athletic or strong to warrant BCS offers.

But I only watched 6 minutes, I'm a terrible evaluator unless the talent is obvious, and I trust the staff.

If he's as versatile as reported, he could be key.

I just went through the thread, and this is the most negative post in the thread. THIS is what people are raising a fuss over? SHM.

I state that I personally didn't see great athleticism in his film.

Then, I even state that I'm a terrible evaluator of talent.

THEN, I say "and I trust the staff", indicating that THAT is all that matters, not my opinion.

If this upsets you, take a hike, honestly. If we're not allowed to watch film and have an opinion on the film, then ask the mods to not allow highlights on recruit's profiles.

This should have never sprung a debate/argument. Period. The sensitivity required to take offense to this is laughable; it's sad that this had to derail a thread.

 

[Domina Nostra]

IThe sensitivity required to take offense to this is laughable; it's sad that this had to derail a thread.

LOL. I'd be the first to admit that I get a little defensive about a recruit once he commits. It feels a little bit like critiquing family.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Dude, I never even read that post. Someone mentioned how the reaction to Jonathan's commitment was lukewarm on another board, and I said I think that is poor form. You disagreed and started arguing with me. I was not talking about you at the outset.

 

[koonja]

Dude, I never even read that post. Someone mentioned how the reaction to Jonathan's commitment was lukewarm on another board, and I said I think that is poor form. You disagreed and started arguing with me. I was not talking about you at the outset.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So there wasn't even a fight in the first place?

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Kid is very talented and very raw. Those are normally the types of kids you want bc they have high ceilings. Some of the 5 star guys are 5 stars bc they are talented, coordinated, stronger, faster, etc...but once they get to college they have plateaued. They dont get bigger/stronger/faster/etc.

Bonnor is a kid that has incredible discipline in his game. He holds the point of attack and attacks it at the right times. Plays contain well, and covers the backside until the ball carrier has committed. Is he the strongest/fastest/coordinated/athletic guy...no. But he offers multiple scenarios. Wiltfong said he could play all 4 LB positions, which means he probably works on getting trim, and playing at 245-250 area...or he could turn into a KAP and put on 40-50lbs and be 290-300 range. When KAP came in he was a skinny, less athletic, weaker, version of Bonnor.

Whether you are a walk on or a 5 star, you are going to get what you put into it 90% of the time. The other 10% you have injuries, no work ethic, become satisified, etc. Based off Bonnors background its safe to say he will fall into the 90% and work his *** off and make a difference.

Couple things......One of the reasons he isnt 'ranked' is his high school doesnt exactly produce regular D1 talent, so in most cases it just falls on his coaches/ad in that they dont know how to get his name out there, and didnt help him get to camps earlier. Thats the difference between him going to his current school compared to the same player enrolled at St. Thomas Aquinas. Missouri also doesnt exactly produce the top talent in the country. Sure they have had a few gems throughout the years, but its not a Florida, Texas, Ohio, Cali, where there are national programs or dynasty type schools.

If he camped at ND, won reps vs bars/nelson, ND offered and took his commitment the same day, I feel pretty damn good about the kid. ND has said no to a few kids that have tried to commit, so them accepting his commitment is rather telling. The kid has "low rankings" but a team coming off a Natl Title appearance is accepting his commitment the day it was offered and the staff is known to be pickier than most.....yeah Id say he fits what they want.

 

[irishog77]

My suggestion is that if people don't like what is being said on other message boards...then they should go to those message boards and talk about it.

As far as Bonner goes, kuehnja is right. I think I actually may have said the most "negative" things about Bonner-- that it MAY not be a good thing to compare him to Turner and, that still prior to his verbal, it seemed CURIOUS...based on what we knew AT THAT TIME. People haven't been ripping on the kid nor pretending to be more in tune with his recruitment than Brian Kelly. Yet this thread is filled with people bashing the "naysayers," "star chasers," and "arm chair coaches."

This thread has become borderline unbearable to read.

 

[Rhode Irish]

My suggestion is that if people don't like what is being said on other message boards...then they should go to those message boards and talk about it.

As far as Bonner goes, kuehnja is right. I think I actually may have said the most "negative" things about Bonner-- that it MAY not be a good thing to compare him to Turner and, that still prior to his verbal, it seemed CURIOUS...based on what we knew AT THAT TIME. People haven't been ripping on the kid nor pretending to be more in tune with his recruitment than Brian Kelly. Yet this thread is filled with people bashing the "naysayers," "star chasers," and "arm chair coaches."

This thread has become borderline unbearable to read.

I don't go to other message boards, and I don't have time to read every post on this board, either. I was responding to something that was said that I had an opinion about. I stand by my opinion. I don't think ND fans should criticize guys that commit to ND after they commit because they don't have enough stars. That was initially my only point.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Kid is very talented and very raw. Those are normally the types of kids you want bc they have high ceilings. Some of the 5 star guys are 5 stars bc they are talented, coordinated, stronger, faster, etc...but once they get to college they have plateaued. They dont get bigger/stronger/faster/etc.

Bonnor is a kid that has incredible discipline in his game. He holds the point of attack and attacks it at the right times. Plays contain well, and covers the backside until the ball carrier has committed. Is he the strongest/fastest/coordinated/athletic guy...no. But he offers multiple scenarios. Wiltfong said he could play all 4 LB positions, which means he probably works on getting trim, and playing at 245-250 area...or he could turn into a KAP and put on 40-50lbs and be 290-300 range. When KAP came in he was a skinny, less athletic, weaker, version of Bonnor.

Whether you are a walk on or a 5 star, you are going to get what you put into it 90% of the time. The other 10% you have injuries, no work ethic, become satisified, etc. Based off Bonnors background its safe to say he will fall into the 90% and work his *** off and make a difference.

Couple things......One of the reasons he isnt 'ranked' is his high school doesnt exactly produce regular D1 talent, so in most cases it just falls on his coaches/ad in that they dont know how to get his name out there, and didnt help him get to camps earlier. Thats the difference between him going to his current school compared to the same player enrolled at St. Thomas Aquinas. Missouri also doesnt exactly produce the top talent in the country. Sure they have had a few gems throughout the years, but its not a Florida, Texas, Ohio, Cali, where there are national programs or dynasty type schools.

If he camped at ND, won reps vs bars/nelson, ND offered and took his commitment the same day, I feel pretty damn good about the kid. ND has said no to a few kids that have tried to commit, so them accepting his commitment is rather telling. The kid has "low rankings" but a team coming off a Natl Title appearance is accepting his commitment the day it was offered and the staff is known to be pickier than most.....yeah Id say he fits what they want.

This. I also think that with the consensus being that Andrew Williams being a longshot, and perhaps our next best possibility with Carter being a possible but unknown possibility, you take a guy like Bonner and you don't look back.

 

[BGIF]

I raised an eyebrow when I read this relatively unknown was offered at camp. People jumped to the John Turner comparison. I'll go back a dozen years further.

Bob Davie for his shortcomings was the one who got ND into effectively ultilizing summer camps as a recruiting tool. When Holtz had Vinny Cerrato, he didn't need camps. Holtz big recruiting tool (besides uberrecruiter Cerrato) was warm weather football game visits and the Banquet.

One of Davie's camper finds was a red head named Rocky. He was offered at midday of his first day at camp. Recruitniks said,"Who the hell is Boiman? The recruiting services don't even have a profile for him."

If Jonathon Bonner is as bad a scholarship offer as Rocky Boiman was supposed to be, we'll be happy fans.

 

[md_bennett]

This. I also think that with the consensus being that Andrew Williams being a longshot, and perhaps our next best possibility with Carter being a possible but unknown possibility, you take a guy like Bonner and you don't look back.

That's a whole lot of possibility in there. Mind blown!

In all seriousness though I love this pickup for that reason. He is going to be that guy that can play any of 6 positions depending on how they stack him up or keep him trim. If he can be a backup plan for Cat right now and we can wait on Carter, Williams, Yeargin to decide then I am fine with that. If we pick up another guy and we can move him around then all the better for us. He is not going to be the player that scares other recruits off because he plays the same spot, but he will be the guy we plug in where we are lacking when this year is done. This is a smart pickup of a guy who loves what ND is all about. Glad he earned it.

 

[EddytoNow]

Kid is very talented and very raw. Those are normally the types of kids you want bc they have high ceilings. Some of the 5 star guys are 5 stars bc they are talented, coordinated, stronger, faster, etc...but once they get to college they have plateaued. They dont get bigger/stronger/faster/etc.

Bonnor is a kid that has incredible discipline in his game. He holds the point of attack and attacks it at the right times. Plays contain well, and covers the backside until the ball carrier has committed. Is he the strongest/fastest/coordinated/athletic guy...no. But he offers multiple scenarios. Wiltfong said he could play all 4 LB positions, which means he probably works on getting trim, and playing at 245-250 area...or he could turn into a KAP and put on 40-50lbs and be 290-300 range. When KAP came in he was a skinny, less athletic, weaker, version of Bonnor.

Whether you are a walk on or a 5 star, you are going to get what you put into it 90% of the time. The other 10% you have injuries, no work ethic, become satisified, etc. Based off Bonnors background its safe to say he will fall into the 90% and work his *** off and make a difference.

Couple things......One of the reasons he isnt 'ranked' is his high school doesnt exactly produce regular D1 talent, so in most cases it just falls on his coaches/ad in that they dont know how to get his name out there, and didnt help him get to camps earlier. Thats the difference between him going to his current school compared to the same player enrolled at St. Thomas Aquinas. Missouri also doesnt exactly produce the top talent in the country. Sure they have had a few gems throughout the years, but its not a Florida, Texas, Ohio, Cali, where there are national programs or dynasty type schools.

If he camped at ND, won reps vs bars/nelson, ND offered and took his commitment the same day, I feel pretty damn good about the kid. ND has said no to a few kids that have tried to commit, so them accepting his commitment is rather telling. The kid has "low rankings" but a team coming off a Natl Title appearance is accepting his commitment the day it was offered and the staff is known to be pickier than most.....yeah Id say he fits what they want.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Bonner is part of the Golden Army for a reason. The coaches want him, and he loves Notre Dame.

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

That's a whole lot of possibility in there. Mind blown!

In all seriousness though I love this pickup for that reason. He is going to be that guy that can play any of 6 positions depending on how they stack him up or keep him trim. If he can be a backup plan for Cat right now and we can wait on Carter, Williams, Yeargin to decide then I am fine with that. If we pick up another guy and we can move him around then all the better for us. He is not going to be the player that scares other recruits off because he plays the same spot, but he will be the guy we plug in where we are lacking when this year is done. This is a smart pickup of a guy who loves what ND is all about. Glad he earned it.

Yea, that's what happens when you're trying to english while boozy haha. He's a Cam McDaniel kinda guy--someone who you may hope you have someone better for the position, but he's good for the program and if you need him, you're glad as hell that you have him.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Oh look... he's back and holier than though.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.................

Now I see, I missed it because I was - Eating rolls!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I WANT to use != in my posts, but then I get all OCD and refrain on the grounds some people do not know != means not equal. Programmers unite!

Props on your bold usage.

ODC is RIGHT! Lol!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Kid is very talented and very raw. Those are normally the types of kids you want bc they have high ceilings. Some of the 5 star guys are 5 stars bc they are talented, coordinated, stronger, faster, etc...but once they get to college they have plateaued. They dont get bigger/stronger/faster/etc.

Bonnor is a kid that has incredible discipline in his game. He holds the point of attack and attacks it at the right times. Plays contain well, and covers the backside until the ball carrier has committed. Is he the strongest/fastest/coordinated/athletic guy...no. But he offers multiple scenarios. Wiltfong said he could play all 4 LB positions, which means he probably works on getting trim, and playing at 245-250 area...or he could turn into a KAP and put on 40-50lbs and be 290-300 range. When KAP came in he was a skinny, less athletic, weaker, version of Bonnor.

Whether you are a walk on or a 5 star, you are going to get what you put into it 90% of the time. The other 10% you have injuries, no work ethic, become satisified, etc. Based off Bonnors background its safe to say he will fall into the 90% and work his *** off and make a difference.

Couple things......One of the reasons he isnt 'ranked' is his high school doesnt exactly produce regular D1 talent, so in most cases it just falls on his coaches/ad in that they dont know how to get his name out there, and didnt help him get to camps earlier. Thats the difference between him going to his current school compared to the same player enrolled at St. Thomas Aquinas. Missouri also doesnt exactly produce the top talent in the country. Sure they have had a few gems throughout the years, but its not a Florida, Texas, Ohio, Cali, where there are national programs or dynasty type schools.

If he camped at ND, won reps vs bars/nelson, ND offered and took his commitment the same day, I feel pretty damn good about the kid. ND has said no to a few kids that have tried to commit, so them accepting his commitment is rather telling. The kid has "low rankings" but a team coming off a Natl Title appearance is accepting his commitment the day it was offered and the staff is known to be pickier than most.....yeah Id say he fits what they want.

How much does the offer, or the pickiness of acceptance have to do with Longo? I understand Admission is going to get their piece first, and there are many factors into offering and accepting an commitment, but how much comes down to a physical/physiological evaluation, by Longo, and maybe even the training staff?

 

[TheTurningPoint]

How much does the offer, or the pickiness of acceptance have to do with Longo? I understand Admission is going to get their piece first, and there are many factors into offering and accepting an commitment, but how much comes down to a physical/physiological evaluation, by Longo, and maybe even the training staff?

I dunno. 6'4 250 guys that have flexibility, athleticism, speed, are rare. You get them when you can.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I dunno. 6'4 250 guys that have flexibility, athleticism, speed, are rare. You get them when you can.

Thanks! I didn't mean necessarily with Bonner, but with a situation where you have a kid coming in to camp.

 

[NDWorld247]

How much does the offer, or the pickiness of acceptance have to do with Longo? I understand Admission is going to get their piece first, and there are many factors into offering and accepting an commitment, but how much comes down to a physical/physiological evaluation, by Longo, and maybe even the training staff?

Bogs, this is a great question and something that gets overlooked by most of us. Longo's influence in deciding who gets offered and who doesn't, especially when it comes to kids who he's had a chance to evaluate in person, cannot be understated. He is largely responsible for setting the physical/physiological parameters that the coaches follow when recruiting and I imagine his stamp of approval is needed before any offers go out. He is one of the 'directors' for a reason and that doesn't exclude recruiting.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Bogs, this is a great question and something that gets overlooked by most of us. Longo's influence in deciding who gets offered and who doesn't, especially when it comes to kids who he's had a chance to evaluate in person, cannot be understated. He is largely responsible for setting the physical/physiological parameters that the coaches follow when recruiting and I imagine his stamp of approval is needed before any offers go out. He is one of the 'directors' for a reason and that doesn't exclude recruiting.

My belief is that the staff and recruit both have a good idea of the developmental potential of the recruit, before they set foot on campus. The other part is to determine that mental component is there, that the recruit will in fact push the physical limit. This is the only combination I can think of that would explain the successes Kelly staffs have, and the selectivity of the Irish offers. I would like some verification, though.

 

[Luckylucci]

Great last couple of posts guys. I'll continue what TJ had to say in this thread since it pertain more to Bonner than Jesse A. TJ says the staff doesn't believe he has to play down (DE in the 3-4) with what we witnessed at camp. He has the necessary traits to play some LB and definitely the edge.