'14 IA WR Allen Lazard (Iowa State Verbal)
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notredomer23
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He sounds like a really level-headed kid. Cited he was on a recruiting high right now from the 5 star challenge and then the visit so he doesn't want to jump to any decisions
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Me2SouthBend
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Was there any discussion about Degree value? My guess is that might tilt the scales in ND's favor. Cough, Whiskey, Cough.
notredomer23
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I am sure it was, as academics was mentioned a few times.
The staff's biggest pitch was how they would use him though, a la Michael Floyd, and he apparently loved it.
FearTheBeard
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Maybe we should start telling our recruits theyll be the next Michael Floyd...kinda like how Urban does with Percy Harvin haha
GoldenIsThyFame
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Wilting said we would have to get his dad to campus before anything could happen. Thinks he could actually work at ISU in addition to having played there.
Domina Nostra
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Haha! But the truth is that they did not make this pitch to Mark Andrews--who they said would be used like Eifert despite his preference as WR.
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ISU's Football ROI profile is pretty interesting. 30y Return for Graduates (i.e. degree value unmodified by GSR) is slightly below average (39/ 71 nationally). And their Caucasian GSR, at 88%, is above average.
The embarrassing part? They only graduate 45% of their African American football players, and they have the 2nd worst Racial GSR Disparity in the nation at 43% (only FSU is worse). If I'm Mr. Lazard, that's a deal breaker for me.
ND's offering ~6x more degree value than ISU to Allen.
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ISU's Football ROI profile is pretty interesting. 30y Return for Graduates (i.e. degree value unmodified by GSR) is slightly below average (39/ 71 nationally). And their Caucasian GSR, at 88%, is above average.
The embarrassing part? They only graduate 45% of their African American football players, and they have the 2nd worst Racial GSR Disparity in the nation at 43% (only FSU is worse). If I'm Mr. Lazard, that's a deal breaker for me.
ND's offering ~6x more degree value than ISU to Allen.
Hopefully Elijah Hood is on the case. He has pointed out these types of statistics on twitter before.
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Buster Bluth
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ISU's Football ROI profile is pretty interesting. 30y Return for Graduates (i.e. degree value unmodified by GSR) is slightly below average (39/ 71 nationally). And their Caucasian GSR, at 88%, is above average.
The embarrassing part? They only graduate 45% of their African American football players, and they have the 2nd worst Racial GSR Disparity in the nation at 43% (only FSU is worse). If I'm Mr. Lazard, that's a deal breaker for me.
ND's offering ~6x more degree value than ISU to Allen.
Not if both of your parents graduated, and especially if your father works there.
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To be fair, I wrote "If I'm Mr. Lazard..."
And given my obsession with objective analysis and cold rationality, I'm clearly not normal. So TIFWIW.
Domina Nostra
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Plus, statistics like this only tell you what happens to the average player. If you are, say, Myron Rolle, the FSU stats are not going to be very meaningful for you since you don't believe that you are average.
I doubt that Allen's parents are worried about him slipping through the cracks at the university where one of them works.
The graduation statistics are most important for the kids who could go either way, and sadly, they are ussually the one's who ignore them.
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Irishnuke
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Directed at Whiskey from the Clone website. Pure gold.
"Re: So, Lazard is taking an official visit to Notre Dame....
I really don't know where they are getting that statistic but it is irrelevant. In the same sentence they show that ISU degree is an average return of 88% and above average nationally. So they are either implying that we don't help the African American players or that ND poster is just dumb.
Anyway, more importantly my advice to Lazard would be that the degree doesn't really matter that much at this time. All college degrees are becoming less valuable except for a few areas like engineering and agriculture. His potential earnings from one year in the NFL are as much as most college graduates lifetime earnings. He should focus on learning good basic money management in order to make that potential NFL check last a long time. The few institutions with really good academics that would make a difference salary wise are not going to cut it football wise."
"Re: So, Lazard is taking an official visit to Notre Dame....
I really don't know where they are getting that statistic but it is irrelevant. In the same sentence they show that ISU degree is an average return of 88% and above average nationally. So they are either implying that we don't help the African American players or that ND poster is just dumb.
Anyway, more importantly my advice to Lazard would be that the degree doesn't really matter that much at this time. All college degrees are becoming less valuable except for a few areas like engineering and agriculture. His potential earnings from one year in the NFL are as much as most college graduates lifetime earnings. He should focus on learning good basic money management in order to make that potential NFL check last a long time. The few institutions with really good academics that would make a difference salary wise are not going to cut it football wise."
ChiRish
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So if I were to entertain that dumbass statement. The first thought that comes to mind is, LMFAO that they believe ISU would be the best college for him to go to in order to get into the NFL.
ChiRish
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Oy. For the benefit of any Cyclone fans who may be lurking here, allow me to explain...
ISU's "30y Return" comes from my Football ROI ranking. That figure, in turn, is derived from Payscale's objective salary data, which reflects how much an average undergraduate degree from any given institution will increase one's earning potential over and above that of someone with only a high school diploma (I've backed out things like "Cost of Attendance" and "Average Scholarship" in mine, since those are irrelevant to athletes on full rides). My ranking only considers the 71 schools with BCS-caliber (being very generous here) football programs. ISU ranks 39th out of 71 on degree value alone, which is below average for football schools.
88% refers to your Caucasian Football GSR; that's another objective statistic, only this one is compiled by the NCAA. It reflects how many of your Caucasian football players either graduate or transfer/ go pro in good academic standing. 88% is nothing to brag about, since the median is 84%, but it's still technically above average.
This where you should be embarrassed of ISU (doubly so if it's your alma mater, as you're having trouble grasping some very basic concepts here). The Cyclones only manage to graduate 45% of their African American football players. Why? Maybe you're recruiting inner-city kids who have virtually no chance of succeeding academically in college (that's called exploitation). Maybe you don't provide your athletes with the academic and organizational support they need to properly balance real course work with the rigors of DI athletics. Or maybe you just don't give a sh!t if your players go to class. Whatever the reason, any African American parent should think twice before handing their son over to Rhoads' care.
And what's with the huge disparity between graduation rates for Caucasian and African-American players? Rhoads is graduating nearly 2 Caucasians for every African-American on his team. The only program with a larger Racial GSR Disparity is FSU.
That's rich. Lazard starts getting interest from Stanford, ND, etc., so ISU fan counsels "the degree doesn't really matter." Would you tell Allen that only ~2% of DI athletes get drafted? That the average NFL career only lasts ~3 years? That 78% of NFL players file for bankruptcy within 5 years of leaving the league?
Lazard seems to be a great talent, so his chances of making the NFL are definitely better than most. But only a tiny fraction of recruited football players become independently wealthy through professional sports. The vast majority will end up making a living doing something else. That's why maximizing degree value in college is always a good idea for these kids-- it's an insurance policy against the overwhelming odds that they don't become set for life through football.
For African-American recruits, ND is offering the best insurance policy in the nation. ISU's? Not so competitive. The "cash value" of ND's policy is roughly 6 times what ISU is offering.
But what do I know? I'm probably just dumb.
ISU's "30y Return" comes from my Football ROI ranking. That figure, in turn, is derived from Payscale's objective salary data, which reflects how much an average undergraduate degree from any given institution will increase one's earning potential over and above that of someone with only a high school diploma (I've backed out things like "Cost of Attendance" and "Average Scholarship" in mine, since those are irrelevant to athletes on full rides). My ranking only considers the 71 schools with BCS-caliber (being very generous here) football programs. ISU ranks 39th out of 71 on degree value alone, which is below average for football schools.
88% refers to your Caucasian Football GSR; that's another objective statistic, only this one is compiled by the NCAA. It reflects how many of your Caucasian football players either graduate or transfer/ go pro in good academic standing. 88% is nothing to brag about, since the median is 84%, but it's still technically above average.
This where you should be embarrassed of ISU (doubly so if it's your alma mater, as you're having trouble grasping some very basic concepts here). The Cyclones only manage to graduate 45% of their African American football players. Why? Maybe you're recruiting inner-city kids who have virtually no chance of succeeding academically in college (that's called exploitation). Maybe you don't provide your athletes with the academic and organizational support they need to properly balance real course work with the rigors of DI athletics. Or maybe you just don't give a sh!t if your players go to class. Whatever the reason, any African American parent should think twice before handing their son over to Rhoads' care.
And what's with the huge disparity between graduation rates for Caucasian and African-American players? Rhoads is graduating nearly 2 Caucasians for every African-American on his team. The only program with a larger Racial GSR Disparity is FSU.
That's rich. Lazard starts getting interest from Stanford, ND, etc., so ISU fan counsels "the degree doesn't really matter." Would you tell Allen that only ~2% of DI athletes get drafted? That the average NFL career only lasts ~3 years? That 78% of NFL players file for bankruptcy within 5 years of leaving the league?
Lazard seems to be a great talent, so his chances of making the NFL are definitely better than most. But only a tiny fraction of recruited football players become independently wealthy through professional sports. The vast majority will end up making a living doing something else. That's why maximizing degree value in college is always a good idea for these kids-- it's an insurance policy against the overwhelming odds that they don't become set for life through football.
For African-American recruits, ND is offering the best insurance policy in the nation. ISU's? Not so competitive. The "cash value" of ND's policy is roughly 6 times what ISU is offering.
But what do I know? I'm probably just dumb.
So like, are these guys saying Lazard should go to a school with a good business program?
Does anyone know a school that has a good business program and would "cut it football wise?"
Anyone?
NDWorld247
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I read through that thread on CycloneFanatic.com - Iowa State Cyclones Online Community and I'm now dumber for having done so. I did find these gems (among many others):
"ND should be careful.....he might be a double agent, trying to recruit their recruits."
"And we all know ND and Alabama will probably offer him a boat load of money for him and his family."
"Bottom line is he wouldn't have already committed to us if he wanted a superb academic school with a tradition of winning football."
At this time, I would like to thank all of the fair, objective and intelligent posters on IE. I don't spend much time on other school's message boards, but when I do, I realize just how proud I am to be a member of the IE community.
"ND should be careful.....he might be a double agent, trying to recruit their recruits."
"And we all know ND and Alabama will probably offer him a boat load of money for him and his family."
"Bottom line is he wouldn't have already committed to us if he wanted a superb academic school with a tradition of winning football."
At this time, I would like to thank all of the fair, objective and intelligent posters on IE. I don't spend much time on other school's message boards, but when I do, I realize just how proud I am to be a member of the IE community.
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Not off the top off my head, I'll have to do some digging.
Whiskeyjack I am ashamed of you. You provide cogent, compelling intelligent analysis. This is an internet message board - only incoherent, fan biased and stupid postings are allowed. Pointing out that a young man and his mother and/or father might want to consider first, the chances that the young man will actually graduate from the college he chooses, second if the young man does graduate what his college degree will be worth for the rest of his life, third that the young man's chances of making it to the NFL even if greatly talented (massive injury or several bad injuries or concussions) are not extremely high, fourth that even if the young man makes it to the NFL the length of his career might be more like 3 years rather than 50 years and fifth, the young man might want to think about the rest of the young man's life AFTER football - is totally wrong. We all know there is no life AFTER football. Bring back Allgator! Bring back Bruin Steve! Ban Whiskeyjack!
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Cackalacky
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I have a bad habit of starting at the last post and working my backwards. I thought whiskey and Irish nuke were going at each other. LOL. Then I find out some ISU Fan thinks ND does not cut it academically or on the field by calling our resident pentium 13 stat master dumb. Then I read he had a great visit.
BleedBlueGold
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You're going to have to talk slower than that. Use less facts and stats. Try using smaller words too.
Whiskey --> IE's Credible Hulk
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Bogtrotter07
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Hey, Whiskey,
Maybe I can help. I happened to look at the ESPN, Pro football players by colleges, and you know what, the University of Toledo has (13) the exact number of players in the NFL as Iowa State! I bring this up, because of a recently retired fire fighter I know.
What, you say? This may not have the impact for most of you because I can remember seeing this guy play; but I think it is actually a great example. Curtis Johnson played for Waite (HS) and the University of Toledo (with Chuck Ealy for a while and played at the beginning of the 35-0 streak). He was drafted in the fourth round by the Miami Dolphins. In nine pro seasons, he started in three Superbowls! He was a pretty damn good cornerback!
I know the situation well because my son grew up with his. He retired after an outstanding career with the TFD. Ask yourself why he would have to do that. His career lasted three times the length of the average NFL player, and as a fourth round draft choice and an anointed starter, (he started in all but a handful of the games he played in), he was the anointed. He reached the top of the game.
Maybe I can help. I happened to look at the ESPN, Pro football players by colleges, and you know what, the University of Toledo has (13) the exact number of players in the NFL as Iowa State! I bring this up, because of a recently retired fire fighter I know.
What, you say? This may not have the impact for most of you because I can remember seeing this guy play; but I think it is actually a great example. Curtis Johnson played for Waite (HS) and the University of Toledo (with Chuck Ealy for a while and played at the beginning of the 35-0 streak). He was drafted in the fourth round by the Miami Dolphins. In nine pro seasons, he started in three Superbowls! He was a pretty damn good cornerback!
I know the situation well because my son grew up with his. He retired after an outstanding career with the TFD. Ask yourself why he would have to do that. His career lasted three times the length of the average NFL player, and as a fourth round draft choice and an anointed starter, (he started in all but a handful of the games he played in), he was the anointed. He reached the top of the game.
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GoldenIsThyFame
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It just keeps getting better.
From Cyclonefanatic:
From Cyclonefanatic:
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Bogtrotter07
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Golden, if you post it you have to 'splain it! LOL!
Ironman8
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Bogs, if you went by that mantra that you just proposed your post count would be a lot higher than 13 per day.
BleedBlueGold
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Is Allen ISU's highest recruit ever or something? This fanbase seems all sorts of butthurt just because other teams are going after him.
If anything, they should be stoked they have him committed and top tier teams are going after him. It should solidify the fact that this kid is legit. It' s like us being happy when our recruits get offered by the likes of LSU, Alabama, etc. Good offer lists and interest from top programs are good things.
Calm down, ISU fans! He's yours....until he's not.
If anything, they should be stoked they have him committed and top tier teams are going after him. It should solidify the fact that this kid is legit. It' s like us being happy when our recruits get offered by the likes of LSU, Alabama, etc. Good offer lists and interest from top programs are good things.
Calm down, ISU fans! He's yours....until he's not.