Politics

[Polish Leppy 22]

One of people that ran the study admitted they didn't take into account the cost cutting measures.

They didn't take into account the subsidies for those within 400 percent of the poverty line. For a family of 4 that is over 93k.

The Latest Attack On Obamacare Conveniently Ignores The Law's Cost-Cutting Provisions | ThinkProgress

Fast Food Chains Realize Obamacare Will Cost Them Much Less Than They Predicted | ThinkProgress

What about the Donut Hole being close incrementally and discounts on drugs?

What about the small business tax credits which are going up to 50 percent of insurance cost net year.

What about the competition on the exchanges across the country?

BTW if your employer provided insurance is over 9.5 of your income you are the eligible to by it on the exchange and get a subsidy for it.

What about those being denied because of pre-existing conditions being able to get coverage.

What about the 80/20 premium rule?

What about young people covered until they are 26.

You wouldn't know it from this post but I got issues with the ACA but cost for majority of Americans is not one of them.

The "Affordable" Care Act has been debated on here several times, you take tweets, talking points, and blogs from "think progress", "americans for minimum wage", MSLSD, and spew them out here as Bible. You'll notice 98% of the articles/ studies I post aren't from the Tea Party, Marco Rubio, RedState, CPAC, RNC, etc.

If you have issues with ACA and cost ISN'T one of them, you're not paying attention. This is going to be ugly, and it will be for a long long time if it isn't repealed or defunded. Anytime Congress passes a bill they claim is going to be "historic" and "monumental" and "helping people" while excluding themselves from it, that should cause concern.

 

[BobD]

Healthcare costs across the nation have been skyrocketing for years now and whether or not Obamacare was passed, they'll continue to rise.

Our problems are many within the healthcare arena, but the number one issue IMHO is simple and probably not popular.....we've turned healthcare into a huge profit making venture instead of a life giving, life enhancing, life saving mission.

There are simply too many people involved in the healthcare business for the money not for helping others, but they do try hard to put on a guise.

Everyone wants their piece of the pie.

Doctors
Lawyers
Insurance companies
Drug companies
Medical device manufacturers
Hospital corporations
Medical group's

I've received medical bills three times in my life for over $100,000 , but luckily had (very expensive) insurance to cover the vast majority of it. There are way too many people in our supposedly great nation that receiving a bill like that would ruin financially. It shouldn't be that way.

 

[chicago51]

What I can't understand with health care is why the business community isn't calling for single payer.

I was talking to this guy on Wednesday. He owns a business and makes over a couple million dollars a year. To my surprise he actually supports the Obama agenda and a very liberal approach to health care.

He said he doesn't understand why the business community wouldn't want single payer. He said the cost of healthcare is a misplaced burden on the business community.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Healthcare costs across the nation have been skyrocketing for years now and whether or not Obamacare was passed, they'll continue to rise.

Our problems are many within the healthcare arena, but the number one issue IMHO is simple and probably not popular.....we've turned healthcare into a huge profit making venture instead of a life giving, life enhancing, life saving mission.

There are simply too many people involved in the healthcare business for the money not for helping others, but they do try hard to put on a guise.

Everyone wants their piece of the pie.

Doctors
Lawyers
Insurance companies
Drug companies
Medical device manufacturers
Hospital corporations
Medical group's

I've received medical bills three times in my life for over $100,000 , but luckily had (very expensive) insurance to cover the vast majority of it. There are way too many people in our supposedly great nation that receiving a bill like that would ruin financially. It shouldn't be that way.

I agree with a great deal of what you said, but the idea that getting the federal government involved is going to increase "access", lower costs, and look out for the little guy is not only unrealistic, it's a bold lie by those selling the idea.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

What I can't understand with health care is why the business community isn't calling for single payer.

I was talking to this guy on Wednesday. He owns a business and makes over a couple million dollars a year. To my surprise he actually supports the Obama agenda and a very liberal approach to health care.

He said he doesn't understand why the business community wouldn't want single payer. He said the cost of healthcare is a misplaced burden on the business community.

Because you and "that guy" are in the minority when it comes to single payer and ACA. The poll numbers don't lie. Americans are still against it and most businesses are afraid of its impact.

I talked to my dentist about it and he flat out said the ACA is taking a problem and making it much worse. Meanwhile, those who signed it claim they're doing it "for the good of the people" and "the poor" but the first thing they did was exclude themselves from it.

Socialism is for the people, not the socialist.

 

[Black Irish]

I like this quote from the IBD article that Polish Leppy put up:

"Sebelius has it exactly wrong. It's precisely those catastrophic plans that are real insurance, which in case anyone has forgotten is supposed to protect against unforeseen costly events, not pay $20 doctor visits.

What Obama and company are trying to force down everyone's throats isn't insurance, it's massively expensive prepaid health care."

Like it or not, but most people with conventional health insurance are kind of spoiled. They have no problem dropping hundreds of dollars on on flat screen TV or a new smart phone when the one they have is perfectly serviceable. But if their co-pays go up by 10 or 20 bucks then its an outrage. Then you have the distorted market that is created by a third party payment system. I really think that making health care a true free market would go a long way towards cutting costs and making things more efficient.

 

[BobD]

I agree with a great deal of what you said, but the idea that getting the federal government involved is going to increase "access", lower costs, and look out for the little guy is not only unrealistic, it's a bold lie by those selling the idea.

It might work and it may fail, but at least someone is trying and that is a step in the right direction.

We will never all agree. We will never make everyone happy.

 

[chicago51]

The one reason I see for why health care cost might go up is the simple supply and demand issue.

It may be the case we simply don't have enough doctors and other health care resources to care everyone, hence you get health care inflation just like got oil inflations in the late 70s. This is essentially why in places with single payer you get long wait times.

I would say the burden on the health care system itself not necessarily the way we pay for it.

So essentially there is not enough resources to care for all the sick people in the world. Which is kind of sad.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

It might work and it may fail, but at least someone is trying and that is a step in the right direction.

We will never all agree. We will never make everyone happy.

We won't make everyone happy but we're overhauling the entire healthcare industry and giving the feds more control. This will fail. It may not be in 2016 or 2018, but Congress stormed into a warehouse fire and poured gasoline on it.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

It might work and it may fail, but at least someone is trying and that is a step in the right direction.

We will never all agree. We will never make everyone happy.

Two aspects of the ACA every American, no matter which party, should just come out and call horse ****.

1) "We have to pass the bill so you can see what's in it." --- Pelosi

2) The first thing the Democrats did after signing it was exclude themselves from it. "The people" down there can live with this. Elite, righteous politicians like ourselves bestowing such generosity on the country need not be subjected to that. We get our own private health care up here.

Disgusting. And they got away with it because not enough people were outraged.

 

[phgreek]

I like this quote from the IBD article that Polish Leppy put up:

"Sebelius has it exactly wrong. It's precisely those catastrophic plans that are real insurance, which in case anyone has forgotten is supposed to protect against unforeseen costly events, not pay $20 doctor visits.

What Obama and company are trying to force down everyone's throats isn't insurance, it's massively expensive prepaid health care."

Like it or not, but most people with conventional health insurance are kind of spoiled. They have no problem dropping hundreds of dollars on on flat screen TV or a new smart phone when the one they have is perfectly serviceable. But if their co-pays go up by 10 or 20 bucks then its an outrage. Then you have the distorted market that is created by a third party payment system. I really think that making health care a true free market would go a long way towards cutting costs and making things more efficient.

Starting to see the true embodiment of free market with surgical specialty centers popping up. They basically cost HALF what hospitals charge, and if you pay cash yourself, less than that. These cebters address a specific ill in the healthcare system...not some made up fantasy horsecrap to justify the idiocy of ACA. Hospitals have too much overhead...we can debate the origin of that overhead...but it isn't all non-paying patients. The market offered an alternative when it needed to...and likely will be free to be the alternative to whatever the government does...at least for surgeries...thank god.

 

[chicago51]

We won't make everyone happy but we're overhauling the entire healthcare industry and giving the feds more control. This will fail. It may not be in 2016 or 2018, but Congress stormed into a warehouse fire and poured gasoline on it.

As far as giving the feds more control I find it amazing that so many red controlled states opted to not to do their own exchange or even a partnership exchange and instead are going to let the federal government run their exchange and thus giving the Feds more control.

There is a conspiracy that Obamacare is meant to fail. It doesn't get any attention but states can opt out of Obamacare in I believe 2016 or 2017 (Vermont might a get a waiver to do it sooner). States however can only opt if they find some way to guarantee health care coverage to their citizens. So the only real answer to that is state single payer. I guess you can tweak Obamacare specifically for your state and have a Romneycare type plan but if Obamacare is failing why would any state do that.

So there are actually some far left liberals that are hoping Obamacare fails and forces single payer.

Vermont and possibly Montana (yea I was surprised by that one) are the two states that are going to try doing a state single payer. It is going to be an interesting experiment to watch.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

As far as giving the feds more control I find it amazing that so many red controlled states opted to not to do their own exchange or even a partnership exchange and instead are going to let the federal government run their exchange and thus giving the Feds more control.

There is a conspiracy that Obamacare is meant to fail. It doesn't get any attention but states can opt out of Obamacare in I believe 2016 or 2017 (Vermont might a get a waiver to do it sooner). States however can only opt if they find some way to guarantee health care coverage to their citizens. So the only real answer to that is state single payer. I guess you can tweak Obamacare specifically for your state and have a Romneycare type plan but if Obamacare is failing why would any state do that.

So there are actually some far left liberals that are hoping Obamacare fails and forces single payer.

Vermont and possibly Montana (yea I was surprised by that one) are the two states that are going to try doing a state single payer. It is going to be an interesting experiment to watch.

Just like every major Democratic program passed since Social Security, it requires force and coersion.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

And if it were the saving grace the president, pelosi, and reid have been guaranteeing since 2009, all the Dems in Congress who put their name on it should be the first ones to sign themselves and their families up for it. You wanted it, you pushed it through, you got what you wanted, now own it and participate in it.

 

[WaveDomer]

A third party transaction is always inflationary. See healthcare and college tuition.

 

[BobD]

A third party transaction is always inflationary. See healthcare and college tuition.

Very true. We have so many people involved in both education and healthcare when all that's truly needed is a student and teacher or doctor and patient.

 

[Downinthebend]

A third party transaction is always inflationary. See healthcare and college tuition.

I'm not too knowledgeable of the history of how they became third party transactions, care to enlighten me?

 

[connor_in]

 

[BeauBenken]

That was precisely the point this gentleman shot down when he brought up ACA and churches having to provide contraception and things they do not believe. The Freedom of Religion ACT was overlooked there as it will be in this case.

I realize you can marry outside of a church, but if a gay Catholic couple wants to marry in the parish to which they belong and that church says they will not marry them then what happens. Does they take it to the courts to force it?

What?

Who is "this gentleman"?

Seriously, I'm struggling to comprehend this post. I'd appreciate it if you could clear it up for me.

And to your question, I again say no because of pretty much everything that's already be said on that matter. The government can't impede on a religion's way of practicing (unless it harms others).

 

[WaveDomer]

I'm not too knowledgeable of the history of how they became third party transactions, care to enlighten me?

This is pretty nice summary. I don't know if it exactly answers the question of "how" but it's got a lot of info.

It's an older article but still relevant, IMHO.

 

[chicago51]

The President wants to invest in these areas and improve them.

Republican think ratings like these apparently are the cornerstone for economic growth.

As bad as these ratings are they actually went up. Our infrastructure from a D to D+ last year.

The National Memo » Can Obama Rebuild Crumbling Infrastructure?

To put it in a global perspective, according to a June 2012 report released by the Council on Foreign Relations, the U.S. fell from fifth in 2002 to 24th in the world on infrastructure quality, being overtaken by 13 countries in the past decade. And according to a 2011 story published in Homeland Security News Wire, the U.S. spends just 2.4 percent of GDP on infrastructure, compared with 5 percent in Europe and 9 percent in China. The developed world spends 52.7 percent more of its GDP on transportation infrastructure than the U.S. does.

 

[magogian]

The President wants to invest in these areas and improve them.

Republican think ratings like these apparently are the cornerstone for economic growth.

As bad as these ratings are they actually went up. Our infrastructure from a D to D+ last year.

The National Memo » Can Obama Rebuild Crumbling Infrastructure?

Those "infrastructure studies" are largely alarmist claptrap, as the WAPO explains

America’s infrastructure gets a D+. That’s not as bad as it sounds.

 

[chicago51]

Those "infrastructure studies" are largely alarmist claptrap, as the WAPO explains

America’s infrastructure gets a D+. That’s not as bad as it sounds.

So in other words instead being awful we are medicore to average. So we should just settle for being average because that was what America is all about.

The United States didn't get where it is by not investing in itself.

Lincoln despite being in the middle of a brutal civil war had the sense to invest in infrastructure by signing the Pacific Rail Act to which commissioned construction for the Transcontinental Railroad. Lincoln also signed the Morill Land Grant which created at the time free colleges all across the union. After Lincoln the following generation we had the industrial revolution.

 

[Buster Bluth]

So in other words instead being awful we are medicore to average. So we should just settle for being average because that was what America is all about.

The United States didn't get where it is by not investing in itself.

Lincoln despite being in the middle of a brutal civil war had the sense to invest in infrastructure by signing the Pacific Rail Act to which commissioned construction for the Transcontinental Railroad. Lincoln also signed the Morill Land Grant which created at the time free colleges all across the union. After Lincoln the following generation we had the industrial revolution.

Stop.

America's infrastructure sucks because we build this and it's ****ing expensive:

Other countries are smarter and didn't spend the last seventy years ****ing themselves.

 

[chicago51]

Stop.

America's infrastructure sucks because we build this and it's ****ing expensive:

Other countries are smarter and didn't spend the last seventy years ****ing themselves.

I don't disagree about the US making mistakes.

So we F up what do we do get our infrastructure to the point where it is advantageous to locate here?

You have background on this so your judgement on this does carry weight with me.

 

[BobD]

 

[irishpat183]

What I can't understand with health care is why the business community isn't calling for single payer.

I was talking to this guy on Wednesday. He owns a business and makes over a couple million dollars a year. To my surprise he actually supports the Obama agenda and a very liberal approach to health care.

He said he doesn't understand why the business community wouldn't want single payer. He said the cost of healthcare is a misplaced burden on the business community.

The "I know a guy".......We all do.

And do you actually think the government wouldn't f**k things up with a single payer system like they've done SS?

Talk about just another feeding tube to the government...It's amazing that there are people out there that think government being in charge of our health care is a good thing.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't disagree about the US making mistakes.

So we F up what do we do get our infrastructure to the point where it is advantageous to locate here?

You have background on this so your judgement on this does carry weight with me.

No guys, THIS is why we need infrastructure...

Arlington's Million Dollar Bus Stop | wusa9.com

thank god we trust government to do the right thing with our money...

 

[BobD]

How do you guys feel about smokers and chubbies paying higher health insurance premiums? I tend to agree with the idea. Money is a motivator for me and if my premium could go up or down 25%, I'd probably be more apt to reach for a carrot than the bacon.

If you're still smoking my friends, please quit. It IS killing you.

 

[irishpat183]

How do you guys feel about smokers and chubbies paying higher health insurance premiums? I tend to agree with the idea. Money is a motivator for me and if my premium could go up or down 25%, I'd probably be more apt to reach for a carrot than the bacon.

If you're still smoking my friends, please quit. It IS killing you.

I agree with you!!!!! (that felt good)....but like every other "group" expect a lawsuit about discrimination.


Fat folks are already doing it to airlines.