'12 FL WR Justin Ferguson (Western Michigan Transfer)

[Pachuco]

Unbelieveable....

All of you claiming how many 'talented" players we have left were likely the same guys saying that Fegie and Neal were studs and can't miss guys when they were brought in.


These are both big losses (especially Neal). We're assuming that some kid will step up and be ready to go. You haven't even considered that some of thsoe guys you're naming as fill-ins, might be busts

Football is all about assumption, like assuming that both Neal and Ferguson were big gains for the program. Notre Dame will be fine. The studs for the squad are the ones who are thirsty to play for ND come hell or high water.

 

[sparkyND]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned earlier in the thread but what is/are his main reason(s) for transferring? Didn't he see some playing time last season (or am I totally mistaken on this aspect). I can understand that Kiel left due to lack of potential playing time and Neal largely because of family issues.

 

[irishpat183]

It's that delusion every player on the team will/could be successful. No program is void of guys who simply don't have the chops to play big time football.

"Nix may leave? No problem, beef up Springmann!!!!"[/QUOTE]

LOL...There would be posters on here saying how Nix wasn't "a ND guy" or that "he didn't fit our system"...etc. LOL

 

[arrowryan]

Very true. But I think Neal wasn't used properly and Ferg didn't even get a chance.

We all just need to watch this play out until the spring game. Watch the spring game, and go from there

 

[Blaise]

First of all, Notre Dame will be fine. Losing players happen and this isn't a major problem

UNLESS

The reason these guys are leaving is not because of playing time, but because of other reasons with program (Being lied to, coaching, harassment)
Until we know why exactly they left, I will reserve judgement on how big of a deal this is

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Losing guys of this kind of talent is never a good thing.

What kind of talent did Ferguson have? He was a low 4 recruit with decent size who had 1 reception last year for 9 yards.

He might have become a productive role player this year (possession WR), or he may have gotten passed by one of the freshman. For all we know, he did get passed, which is why he chose to transfer. Hard to get upset about his departure.

 

[irishpat183]

Football is all about assumption, like assuming that both Neal and Ferguson were big gains for the program. Notre Dame will be fine. The studs for the squad are the ones who are thirsty to play come hell or high water.

Or like assuming that we have guys that are better that will fill the spots?

I'm not saying ND won't be fine...I'm just saying that we've taken some hits this offseason and it's a little troubling to me.

 

[koonja]

What kind of talent did Ferguson have? He was a low 4:s: recruit with decent size who had 1 reception last year for 9 yards.

He might have become a productive role player this year (possession WR), or he may have gotten passed by one of the freshman. For all we know, he did get passed, which is why he chose to transfer. Hard to get upset about his departure.

I don't understand this logic, which seems to be constant through IE.

Furguson had 3 services give him a 3-star, one give him a 4-star. If anything, that's a 3-star player to me. Why do we grab the highest star-given and assume that must be the service that has it right??

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't understand this logic, which seems to be constant through IE.

Furguson had 3 services give him a 3-star, one give him a 4-star. If anything, that's a 3-star player to me. Why do we grab the highest star-given and assume that must be the service that has it right??

I use 247's Composite ranking for everything. His composite score was 0.8918, which is just barely in the 4 range.

IIRC, ESPN liked him a lot (top 10 WR), and everyone else had him as a high 3. Once you average those out, low 4 is probably right.

 

[koonja]

I use 247's Composite ranking for everything. His composite score was 0.8918, which is just barely in the 4 range.

IIRC, ESPN liked him a lot (top 10 WR), and everyone else had him as a high 3. Once you average those out, low 4 is probably right.

I see your reasoning, makes sense. I don't think most use that logic, though. If 3 sites have a guy as a 4-star, and one site has him a 5-star, everyone calls him a 5-star. I guess it's personal preference, but I just don't think that way.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I see your reasoning, makes sense. I don't think most use that logic, though. If 3 sites have a guy as a 4-star, and one site has him a 5-star, everyone calls him a 5-star. I guess it's personal preference, but I just don't think that way.

Whether you count him as a high 3 or a low 4, it doesn't really matter. Our roster is literally full of guys rated at least as highly as Ferguson. There's no reason to consider his departure a significant loss.

In other news, I think Pat has me on his ignore list.

 

[koonja]

Whether you count him as a high 3 or a low 4, it doesn't really matter. Our roster is literally full of guys rated at least as highly as Ferguson. There's no reason to consider his departure a significant loss.

In other news, I think Pat has me on his ignore list.

Classic IrishPat.

I hear you. I wasn't really talking about Ferguson specifically, but you gave me a chance to bring up something that I've always thought was weird.

 

[Emcee77]

What kind of talent did Ferguson have? He was a low 4 recruit with decent size who had 1 reception last year for 9 yards.

He might have become a productive role player this year (possession WR), or he may have gotten passed by one of the freshman. For all we know, he did get passed, which is why he chose to transfer. Hard to get upset about his departure.

I have to agree. I always thought of productive-role-player as Ferguson's ceiling. I'm certain we have other guys who can be productive role players.

I'm a bit more troubled by Davonte's departure ... I think he had gamebreaking potential, and that's harder to find. But again, we have other guys, like Carlisle, for instance, with gamebreaking potential, and there's only one football to go around. This is disappointing, but "dammit" disappointing, not "@$@#$#@ mother@#$$#*(&&ucking ****" disappointing.

 

[Buster Bluth]

What kind of talent did Ferguson have? He was a low 4 recruit with decent size who had 1 reception last year for 9 yards.

He might have become a productive role player this year (possession WR), or he may have gotten passed by one of the freshman. For all we know, he did get passed, which is why he chose to transfer. Hard to get upset about his departure.

I like what Ferguson brought to the table, but he seems like a body that Onwualu can replace almost perfectly.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I'm a bit more troubled by Davonte's departure ... I think he had gamebreaking potential, and that's harder to find. But again, we have other guys, like Carlisle, for instance, with gamebreaking potential, and there's only one football to go around. This is disappointing, but "dammit" disappointing, not "@$@#$#@ mother@#$$#*(&&ucking ****" disappointing.

Yes, it's always disappointing to lose a 5 ATH. But as I mentioned in Neal's thread, Z WR was (and sort of still is) problematic for us in that we have a lot more talent there than available reps. Neal's departure lessens that somewhat.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Yes, it's always disappointing to lose a 5 ATH. But as I mentioned in Neal's thread, Z WR was (and sort of still is) problematic for us in that we have a lot more talent there than available reps. Neal's departure lessens that somewhat.

Plus, silver lining, ~22 spots for '14 now.

 

[phgreek]

I have to agree. I always thought of productive-role-player as Ferguson's ceiling. I'm certain we have other guys who can be productive role players.

I'm a bit more troubled by Davonte's departure ... I think he had gamebreaking potential, and that's harder to find. But again, we have other guys, like Carlisle, for instance, with gamebreaking potential, and there's only one football to go around. This is disappointing, but "dammit" disappointing, not "@$@#$#@ mother@#$$#*(&&ucking ****" disappointing.

Natural progression...as you move a program forward, it looks shiny and fun. People want to be a part of it...

But the reality of an improving program is there is wicked competition...people playing with an urgency every single day to be part of this thing in some way. Some guys see a path to the field by leaving. Some guys dig in and grind...

I am starting to see Kelly as a bit different. Every coach tells folks the best play...but there is investment in high "star" guys which usually gives them an inordinate opportunity to screw up...By looking at the transfers, Kelly appears closer to staying true to the best play mentality than many.

I do worry about the message the press morphs this into...hope someone manages the PR a little bit w/o being derogatory toward the kids leaving because it does matter to kids coming in.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Plus, silver lining, ~22 spots for '14 now.

By my count, the "magic number" is 25 now. 22 spots for incoming freshman would mean only 3 5th years, which is probably the minimum we'll ask back (and honestly, we always end up bringing back more than expected).

Lombard is a lock. Hendrix is likely to be asked back now that Kiel is gone, since we'll need him and 1 QB in the '14 class to stay at 4/4. Moore probably returns simply because ILB depth in '14 is scary thin. And beyond those three, Welch, Wood, Collinsworth and maybe even Utupo all have an opportunity to play themselves into a 5Y this season.

I'll guess five 5Ys at this point, which would leave us only 20 spots for incoming freshman.

 

[Old Man Mike]

On whatever the "Press" does: Kelly doesn't care, and our return to kicka$$ quality winning will swamp their squealings as far as recruits are concerned. If the staff doesn't care, and the potential recruits don't care, and we roll, who gives a rat's a$$ WHAT the Press tries to make mountains out of anthills about. We are getting past the point where the idiot haters are going to have any power at all where it counts.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

By my count, the "magic number" is 25 now. 22 spots for incoming freshman would mean only 3 5th years, which is probably the minimum we'll ask back (and honestly, we always end up bringing back more than expected).

Lombard is a lock. Hendrix is likely to be asked back now that Kiel is gone, since we'll need him and 1 QB in the '14 class to stay at 4/4. Moore probably returns simply because ILB depth in '14 is scary thin. And beyond those three, Welch, Wood, Collinsworth and maybe even Utupo all have an opportunity to play themselves into a 5Y this season.

I'll guess five 5Ys at this point, which would leave us only 20 spots for incoming freshman.

Highly doutbful Hendrix would stay IMO. I'd guess we still bring back at least 3 5th years though.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Whether you count him as a high 3 or a low 4, it doesn't really matter. Our roster is literally full of guys rated at least as highly as Ferguson. There's no reason to consider his departure a significant loss.

In other news, I think Pat has me on his ignore list.

Don't want to make waves, but it would have to be his and his alone. IE dosen't allow us to ignore you kiemosloppy; you being the mod of mods.

Oh my god! For a numbers man you make me laugh outloud!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Plus, silver lining, ~22 spots for '14 now.

More inside linebackers!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Don't want to make waves, but it would have to be his and his alone. IE dosen't allow us to ignore you kiemosloppy; you being the mod of mods.

I wonder which former mod drove you discover this...

 

[Cackalacky]

I see your reasoning, makes sense. I don't think most use that logic, though. If 3 sites have a guy as a 4-star, and one site has him a 5-star, everyone calls him a 5-star. I guess it's personal preference, but I just don't think that way.

psst.....Dont **** with the cyborg...

 

[Irish#1]

We all just need to watch this play out until the spring game. Watch the spring game, and go from there

I tend to agree. What happens in the off-season is hard to know until they step on the field. JF may have seen some writing on the wall that he wasn't going to ascend very high.

 

[anarin]

More inside linebackers!

And more beer bartender!!! The sky isn't falling people!!!!

 

[irishpat183]

Whether you count him as a high 3 or a low 4, it doesn't really matter. Our roster is literally full of guys rated at least as highly as Ferguson. There's no reason to consider his departure a significant loss.

In other news, I think Pat has me on his ignore list.

I ignore no one...Just got tied up at work.


I refuse to ignore anyone. You're all my brothers here.


Back to Ferg....we slam him now, but like I said, the same people calling it "not a big loss" were the same people telling me how this kid was gonna change the position.

It's hilarious.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I ignore no one...Just got tied up at work.


I refuse to ignore anyone. You're all my brothers here.


Back to Ferg....we slam him now, but like I said, the same people calling it "not a big loss" were the same people telling me how this kid was gonna change the position.

It's hilarious.

That is the problem with deifying a recruit, or a player.

 

[ThePiombino]

Back to Ferg....we slam him now, but like I said, the same people calling it "not a big loss" were the same people telling me how this kid was gonna change the position.

It's hilarious.

I promise you those words never came from my keyboard.

 

[Irish YJ]

Who would have thought that Chris Brown, the lowest rated out of the three wr's we signed in the 2012 class, would be the one to stick around.

I called him the stud of the class...

Wake up people. This many transfers in a month is not a good thing.

Never a good thing, unless they are career pine riders. Neither of them are in my opionion.

We're still loaded at WR and that is why this is happening. The main thing that surprises me is that it ISN'T happening in the DBackfield, which is our other overstocked area.

Kelly's recruiting level over the last two classes has been so high that he has "missed" [vis-a-vis quality] on almost nobody. Result? Logjams. These transfers are a stocked organism breathing. And who in the world can blame the kids for looking for a green spot somewhere?.

Agree, I've been waiting on a shoe or two to drop in the DBs.....
Loaded with bodies, not game changers. Neal had the potential to be one.

I wonder if Butler will give WR a shot? Probably not, but we did just lose two receivers.

Butler or Kinlaw could be wildcards, and wouldn't be surprised to see Russell get a look with all the DB depth and talent coming in.

First thread since seeing that Fergie is transferring so if it's posted somewhere I didn't see it but the tweets I read it also stated that the transfers may not end with Fergie and Neal...

HUH?

Back to Ferg....we slam him now, but like I said, the same people calling it "not a big loss" were the same people telling me how this kid was gonna change the position.
It's hilarious.

Yep, too easily we change attitude to fit the situation. The world is full of sales people.