'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

[PraetorianND]

^^ well said. Nice to have you back!

 

[In Lou I Trust]

Personal attack. I am off the thread. Have a nice day.

Hahahahahaha... that's rich.

 

[pkt77242]

I think a lot of kids have different priorities as many adults have priorities than their co-workers. Whether its getting on spteams, being a backup, starting, all american, nfl, first round pick, etc...each kid has a different objective. When individuals start to put their own priorities over just winning football games, or over the team that is where things start to get iffy. I am not saying that is 100% the situation with Kiel. But its hard to not say the kid doesnt have aspirations of playing the nfl, and I think he feels that being 1 play away isnt good enough for him to showcase his talents. A lot of times these kids don't see the big picture aka the 40 year decision to its fullest, but I know for a fact Brad Carrico, Cam Roberson, Tate Nichols are pissed as hell they arent going to play another snap in their life, but know that they are set for life bc of the opportunities ND has given them. In Gunners case, I feel that his recruitment wasn't handled very well and its not really his fault. Thats just the name of recruiting these days. Some kids handle it all and make their own choices and decisions, while others have people make decisions for them and they follow them bc they dont know any better. I think that Gunner Kiel is a smart kid, has some talent, and would have been a nice piece to the puzzle, but you'd be a fool to think Kelly cant get a replacement much less get Zaire up to speed, or Rees ready if that were the case. Make no mistake this is Mr. Golsons team and I'll leave you with this.............Everyone has been wanting a solid qb, a leader, a dynamic playmaker at QB for years. Clausen had it but the defense let him down. We have the defense. And we have the QB. Some have said last year we have got the Natty bc of the defense, and not so much Golson. I would say that Golson was a HUGE part in last years success, and more than some think. The kid has 3 years left, and is only going to get better. Remember he was a first time starter, and he got better each week. As bad as ND played in the title game, Golson didnt look lost or uncomfortable out there. That speaks volumes as far as his personal development and the staffs development with him.

I think your homerism is showing a little on your feelings towards Golson. I would not call Golson a dynamic playmaker yet (he has the potential but he has not reached that potential yet) and we did reach the NC because of our defense and some of our wins were inspite of Golson.

 

[NDhoosier]

I think your homerism is showing a little on your feelings towards Golson. I would not call Golson a dynamic playmaker yet (he has the potential but he has not reached that potential yet) and we did reach the NC because of our defense and some of our wins were inspite of Golson.

Golson is a playmaker. By the end of the year, he was the most dynamic player on the offensive side of the ball. Would I call him an Elite college QB? no, but he is definitely a playmaker, that is not really homerism.

 

[pkt77242]

Golson is a playmaker. By the end of the year, he was the most dynamic player on the offensive side of the ball. Would I call him an Elite college QB? no, but he is definitely a playmaker, that is not really homerism.

He might have been our most dynamic playmaker but that isn't saying much. Manziel, Mariota, Hundley, and Braxton Miller are dynamic playmakers and that is just listing QB's from Golson's own recruiting class.

 

[Pachuco]

I'm at the point now where all that really matters is if a kid truly wants to compete at the University of Notre Dame. That's not an easy task, both inside and out of the classroom. That kid has my football support as a fan. The Kendall Moores and the Roby Tomas and the Everett Golsons. If Gunner wants to go somewhere else, no reason to wish him ill, but no reason to beg him to stay either. Thanks for your scout team efforts last season.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Guys, take the personal battle to PMs please. Or maybe better yet try to ignore each other for a while.

 

[BeauBenken]

Attempted to quickly go through and take out all this ridiculous arguing. Stay on topic.

 

[scUM Hater]

So, Gunner has red hair.

 

[NDinL.A.]

So, Gunner has red hair.

Does his chest have red hair?

 

[scUM Hater]

Does his chest have red hair?

Does he even have a chest?

 

[Rudy89]

Good to have LA back....never aware he left shows how out of the IE loop I've been here recently. Anyway I really wish Gunner wouldn't transfer at least not until after this year because he would prolly get more playing time and I love watching Golson and have great hope for him but ya just never know and Id love to have him around but if he feels he needs to transfer whatever I've never been in gunners position so i won't pretend to know what it's like. As far as clauses goes he was a great player with a lot of guts but he came across kinda douchey to me but maybe he wasn't. Either way I hope the Irish flourish with or without Gunner on the team.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Couldnt be farther from the truth on Clausen. If he was all about himself he wouldn't have played a snap after he got hurt, and did plenty off the field to save face for ND. Not his fault the defense couldnt get stops. Floyd could have packed it in that year too, but came back to finish the year.

I don't agree. Since so much was deleted,

I like Jimmy and am so glad Jimmy was ND's quarterback for those three years. He was definitely responsible for winning more than his share of those seventeen games. But there is an intangeble that needs to be present to take it to the next level. It is the same type of leadership I experienced in the service. It was the same type of leadership Tony Rice had. It was the same type we saw out of Manti, and began to see out of Everett this year. Kappy, Zack, and Tyler had it too. Theo had it dripping durring the season; and you could see it in his post game interview. Michael Floyd developed it, his first big step was returning to finish his college career right. Malik has it in spades from someone I know as a decent evaluator.

I never intended to take anything away from Jimmy, instead I tried to describe something extra I have seen a couple of times in my life, that I would describe as a feature of greatness. Love or hate him, whether he succeeds in the NFL or not (I bet he will) Manti has it.

And Dillon Hall made a great point. It is something that seems to almost be ingrained in the culture of the Kelly staff, where it may not have been present prior to that time.

"A person can disagree with another all day long and question what he says, but the minute he asks the other to "defend" his post he has tipped his hand. That poster considers himself right and the authority, and the other poster wrong. All chance at civil discourse is gone."

The Bogtrotter

 

[Patulski]

Whenever I think of Jimmy Clausen, I think of Charlie Weis saying that we had to score every possession because we couldn't stop Navy.

When you have that kind of thinking from your Head Coach, I don't care what kind of intangibles you have, you are in trouble as far as playing yourself into having a reputation as a winning QB. Everything is riding on your shoulders. Your coach has thrown up the white flag on the other side of the ball.

Man, those were some awful years. Clausen may have had the fortune of playing for Weis the QB Coach, but he had the misfortune of playing for Weis the Head Coach.

I like Jimmy and am so glad Jimmy was ND's quarterback for those three years. He was definitely responsible for winning more than his share of those seventeen games. But there is an intangeble that needs to be present to take it to the next level. It is the same type of leadership I experienced in the service. It was the same type of leadership Tony Rice had. It was the same type we saw out of Manti, and began to see out of Everett this year. Kappy, Zack, and Tyler had it too. Theo had it dripping durring the season; and you could see it in his post game interview. Michael Floyd developed it, his first big step was returning to finish his college career right. Malik has it in spades from someone I know as a decent evaluator[/B]

 

[EddytoNow]

Gunner has the right to do what is best for him. We may disagree on what is the best choice for him to make, but it is his choice.

As far as the Clausen comments are concerned, Jimmy was the best offensive weapon we've had in a long time. He had no offensive line to protect him, no running game, and still managed to bring us back multiple times at the end of the game. Many of his drives resulted in winning touchdowns. Many other drives got us the lead late in the game. It is not a reflection on Jimmy that our defense was so porous that we couldn't protect the lead once he got it for us.

My only regret with Jimmy is that he didn't return for his senior year. However, when you take into consideration that his coach had been fired and the team would be starting over with a new staff, I, for one, can't blame him for leaving.

 

[NDinL.A.]

"A person can disagree with another all day long and question what he says, but the minute he asks the other to "defend" his post he has tipped his hand. That poster considers himself right and the authority, and the other poster wrong. All chance at civil discourse is gone."

The Bogtrotter

Ha ha...nice quote. Look, this is the last time I'm going to address this: I'm a member of this site just like you. I'm not going to tip-toe around this site afraid to post just because you get all butt-hurt every time I disagree with you. It's not going to happen. You posted something I disagreed with, I responded to the post with NOTHING personal in my reply, and you flipped out. Why is that??? Ask the posters who read my reply...they saw it and know it was just a normal reply. You want civil discourse, then don't be scared to partake in it. There was nothing wrong with my original reply, and if it was personal the mods would have given me a deserved infraction. So do us all a favor and just let it go. Or don't post controversial takes if you can't handle the replies. Seriously, why can't someone just disagree with you once in awhile?

Now let's take this discussion where it belongs, shall we?

I like Jimmy and am so glad Jimmy was ND's quarterback for those three years. He was definitely responsible for winning more than his share of those seventeen games. But there is an intangeble that needs to be present to take it to the next level. It is the same type of leadership I experienced in the service. It was the same type of leadership Tony Rice had. It was the same type we saw out of Manti, and began to see out of Everett this year. Kappy, Zack, and Tyler had it too. Theo had it dripping durring the season; and you could see it in his post game interview. Michael Floyd developed it, his first big step was returning to finish his college career right. Malik has it in spades from someone I know as a decent evaluator.

I respectfully disagree. Jimmy was definitely a douche when he got to campus. His first 2 years he was young and not a great leader. But his jr. year, he was most definitely a leader:
* His teammates voted him team captain.
* During the off-season, he organized all the team 7-on-7's along with KMac.
* He flew Golden and Rudolph and Kamara to CA to workout together to get their timing to perfection.
* He had ZERO running game and still lead his offense to record-breaking heights.
* He played almost the entire year on a horrible wheel, unable to move and most games unable to take snap from center (in a pro-style offense, mind you) and still put up 28 TD's to only 4 INT's (most of which weren't his fault).
* He had countless come-from-behind wins, many on that bum foot.
* He took his game to the next level, and he took his entire offense to the next level. He did EVERYTHING you want a leader to do, and was recognized by his teammates for it.

He did all this, and yet you still have dogged him (whether it has been intended or not) on several posts. Jimmy had that tangible in spades his junior year...but his coach and his defense didn't.

I never intended to take anything away from Jimmy, instead I tried to describe something extra I have seen a couple of times in my life, that I would describe as a feature of greatness. Love or hate him, whether he succeeds in the NFL or not (I bet he will) Manti has it.

You've only seen it a couple times in your life, but then you mention Tony Rice as having it, Manti as having it, Zak, Tyler, and Kappy having it, Theo having it, Floyd having it, Golson starting to show that he has it, and someone saying Malik has it. That's a LOT of people, but Jimmy, after all he did his junior year, didn't have it?

Sorry, but those guys you mentioned had 'it' because their coaches put them in a winning position so it could flourish. You give Jimmy last year's defense and you'd be singing his praises about having 'it'.

 

[phork]

Ha ha...nice quote. Look, this is the last time I'm going to address this: I'm a member of this site just like you. I'm not going to tip-toe around this site afraid to post just because you get all butt-hurt every time I disagree with you. It's not going to happen. You posted something I disagreed with, I responded to the post with NOTHING personal in my reply, and you flipped out. Why is that??? Ask the posters who read my reply...they saw it and know it was just a normal reply. You want civil discourse, then don't be scared to partake in it. There was nothing wrong with my original reply, and if it was personal the mods would have given me a deserved infraction. So do us all a favor and just let it go. Or don't post controversial takes if you can't handle the replies. Seriously, why can't someone just disagree with you once in awhile?

Now let's take this discussion where it belongs, shall we?



I respectfully disagree. Jimmy was definitely a douche when he got to campus. His first 2 years he was young and not a great leader. But his jr. year, he was most definitely a leader:
* His teammates voted him team captain.
* During the off-season, he organized all the team 7-on-7's along with KMac.
* He flew Golden and Rudolph and Kamara to CA to workout together to get their timing to perfection.
* He had ZERO running game and still lead his offense to record-breaking heights.
* He played almost the entire year on a horrible wheel, unable to move and most games unable to take snap from center (in a pro-style offense, mind you) and still put up 28 TD's to only 4 INT's (most of which weren't his fault).
* He had countless come-from-behind wins, many on that bum foot.
* He took his game to the next level, and he took his entire offense to the next level. He did EVERYTHING you want a leader to do, and was recognized by his teammates for it.

He did all this, and yet you still have dogged him (whether it has been intended or not) on several posts. Jimmy had that tangible in spades his junior year...but his coach and his defense didn't.



You've only seen it a couple times in your life, but then you mention Tony Rice as having it, Manti as having it, Zak, Tyler, and Kappy having it, Theo having it, Floyd having it, Golson starting to show that he has it, and someone saying Malik has it. That's a LOT of people, but Jimmy, after all he did his junior year, didn't have it?

Sorry, but those guys you mentioned had 'it' because their coaches put them in a winning position so it could flourish. You give Jimmy last year's defense and you'd be singing his praises about having 'it'.

The only person responsible for the crap stain years of Weis was Weis and lack of defense. That offense was virtually unstoppable. I think they averaged 31ppg or something like that, unfortunately the defense gave up 32ppg. Heh.

 

[pkt77242]

Ha ha...nice quote. Look, this is the last time I'm going to address this: I'm a member of this site just like you. I'm not going to tip-toe around this site afraid to post just because you get all butt-hurt every time I disagree with you. It's not going to happen. You posted something I disagreed with, I responded to the post with NOTHING personal in my reply, and you flipped out. Why is that??? Ask the posters who read my reply...they saw it and know it was just a normal reply. You want civil discourse, then don't be scared to partake in it. There was nothing wrong with my original reply, and if it was personal the mods would have given me a deserved infraction. So do us all a favor and just let it go. Or don't post controversial takes if you can't handle the replies. Seriously, why can't someone just disagree with you once in awhile?

Now let's take this discussion where it belongs, shall we?



I respectfully disagree. Jimmy was definitely a douche when he got to campus. His first 2 years he was young and not a great leader. But his jr. year, he was most definitely a leader:
* His teammates voted him team captain.
* During the off-season, he organized all the team 7-on-7's along with KMac.
* He flew Golden and Rudolph and Kamara to CA to workout together to get their timing to perfection.
* He had ZERO running game and still lead his offense to record-breaking heights.
* He played almost the entire year on a horrible wheel, unable to move and most games unable to take snap from center (in a pro-style offense, mind you) and still put up 28 TD's to only 4 INT's (most of which weren't his fault).
* He had countless come-from-behind wins, many on that bum foot.
* He took his game to the next level, and he took his entire offense to the next level. He did EVERYTHING you want a leader to do, and was recognized by his teammates for it.

He did all this, and yet you still have dogged him (whether it has been intended or not) on several posts. Jimmy had that tangible in spades his junior year...but his coach and his defense didn't.



You've only seen it a couple times in your life, but then you mention Tony Rice as having it, Manti as having it, Zak, Tyler, and Kappy having it, Theo having it, Floyd having it, Golson starting to show that he has it, and someone saying Malik has it. That's a LOT of people, but Jimmy, after all he did his junior year, didn't have it?

Sorry, but those guys you mentioned had 'it' because their coaches put them in a winning position so it could flourish. You give Jimmy last year's defense and you'd be singing his praises about having 'it'.

I am starting to think that Bogs is allergic to reason, so don't try.

 

[Teomonsternd]

Definition of Longwinded. See above post.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Shouldn't you people be drinking? Come on..

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Ha ha...nice quote. Look, this is the last time I'm going to address this: I'm a member of this site just like you. I'm not going to tip-toe around this site afraid to post just because you get all butt-hurt every time I disagree with you. It's not going to happen. You posted something I disagreed with, I responded to the post with NOTHING personal in my reply, and you flipped out. Why is that??? Ask the posters who read my reply...they saw it and know it was just a normal reply. You want civil discourse, then don't be scared to partake in it. There was nothing wrong with my original reply, and if it was personal the mods would have given me a deserved infraction. So do us all a favor and just let it go. Or don't post controversial takes if you can't handle the replies. Seriously, why can't someone just disagree with you once in awhile?

Now let's take this discussion where it belongs, shall we?



I respectfully disagree. Jimmy was definitely a douche when he got to campus. His first 2 years he was young and not a great leader. But his jr. year, he was most definitely a leader:
* His teammates voted him team captain.
* During the off-season, he organized all the team 7-on-7's along with KMac.
* He flew Golden and Rudolph and Kamara to CA to workout together to get their timing to perfection.
* He had ZERO running game and still lead his offense to record-breaking heights.
* He played almost the entire year on a horrible wheel, unable to move and most games unable to take snap from center (in a pro-style offense, mind you) and still put up 28 TD's to only 4 INT's (most of which weren't his fault).
* He had countless come-from-behind wins, many on that bum foot.
* He took his game to the next level, and he took his entire offense to the next level. He did EVERYTHING you want a leader to do, and was recognized by his teammates for it.

He did all this, and yet you still have dogged him (whether it has been intended or not) on several posts. Jimmy had that tangible in spades his junior year...but his coach and his defense didn't.



You've only seen it a couple times in your life, but then you mention Tony Rice as having it, Manti as having it, Zak, Tyler, and Kappy having it, Theo having it, Floyd having it, Golson starting to show that he has it, and someone saying Malik has it. That's a LOT of people, but Jimmy, after all he did his junior year, didn't have it?

Sorry, but those guys you mentioned had 'it' because their coaches put them in a winning position so it could flourish. You give Jimmy last year's defense and you'd be singing his praises about having 'it'.

Your routine post is clearly about making someone wrong and you right, so there is no room for discussion. Your Clausen resume. Great. Ask anyone that played with him and Manti the last two years of their college careers, their Junior and Senior years, who was more invested in winning . . . oops!

Pardon me I meant my reality-based private life.

And as far as the rest, I have every bit of empirical evidence that you wouldn't have any idea what the kind of '"it" I was talking about was, even if it bit you on the a$s.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I am starting to think that Bogs is allergic to reason, so don't try.

Yeah that is it! It is why we get along so well. Man I was thinking how I never had a problem with you. You are the man!

 

[NDinL.A.]

And as far as the rest, I have every bit of empirical evidence that you wouldn't have any idea what the kind of '"it" I was talking about was, even if it bit you on the a$s.

LOL...nice response. Is this the 'civil, non-personal-attack' discourse you've been preaching about? I guess this is the way it will always be with you, sadly. Oh well.

(Oh, and I met one of Clausen's former teammates this past summer, and he was the one who was bragging about Jimmy and told me much of what I wrote. But hey, why bring in reason and facts with this, right?)

 

[pkt77242]

Yeah that is it! It is why we get along so well. Man I was thinking how I never had a problem with you. You are the man!

Shockingly I didn't know that we got along. Must be one of your fantasies.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Shouldn't you people be drinking? Come on..

 

[IrishLion]

Jimmy was a warrior on the field. Off the field, not so much. As for Gunner? Nobody knows anything really. He's wishy-washy maybe, and scared of competition, but he still has time to grow. He could develope that 'it' with some experience and a little personal growth for all we know.

 

[pkt77242]

Shouldn't you people be drinking? Come on..

I am drinking. What do you think is making me so combative? :swordfigh

 

[Fbolt]

So GK cleaned out his locker but does anyone truly know if he decided not to stay for spring ball? I thought last Monday he was going to talk to BK - or was he going to think about it this while at home...?

I would be interested in any updates on what his final decision turns out to be. Maybe this coming week?

 

[Fbolt]

Jimmy was a warrior on the field. Off the field, not so much. As for Gunner? Nobody knows anything really. He's wishy-washy maybe, and scared of competition -maybe?- , but he still has time to grow. He could develope that 'it' with some experience and a little personal growth for all we know.

tried to help out, although I may be wrong

 

[clashmore_mike]

So GK cleaned out his locker but does anyone truly know if he decided not to stay for spring ball? I thought last Monday he was going to talk to BK - or was he going to think about it this while at home...?

I would be interested in any updates on what his final decision turns out to be. Maybe this coming week?

Very likely there will something said about it this coming week. BK will meet with the media the day before practice starts. I'd be shocked if the first question asked isn't about Gunner's status. We'll know reasonably soon whether or not he is practicing.