BK stays at ND

[irishff1014]

I thought this was more of Bk's fault but Jack had just as much opportunity to clear the air and didn't. IMO was flat out BS!!

 

[Rocky2820]

The only thing I tend to disagree with are some people acting like this "flirtation" was completely unrelated to his contract and other demands. They've been trying to get a deal done for over a month now and it hasn't happened. In addition to genuine interest in the NFL, this was also clearly a way to show ND that he has options and means business.

I agree. The truth seems to have been somewhere in between the two extremes, and IMO leaning more toward genuine interest in the NFL. But certainly I agree that both elements played a role in what went down and how it went down.

 

[palinurus]

This probably should go elsewhere, but it was brought up here. It concerns our sharp and evolving DC, Bobby-the-D.

There was what was to me a very significant thing said by Barrett Jones after the game about our defense [and to preface this: I believe that comments by veteran "coaches-coming-to-be" players like Jones are VERY much worth listening to]:

"They're good because they're simple. But they're simple." He went on to say that given all the time that they [read: Saban] had to prepare for the game, the Notre Dame defense was simply patterned and predictable to the point where he and his buddies knew exactly where they would all be, angles and all, if they did certain formations and motions. That unusual foreknowledge allowed subtleties of knowing exactly who to block and how. Jones said that this made it relatively easy for linemen to get to the second level and at the right angles.

What does this say? Well, it explains a lot about the game, of course. But it also says that while Bobby-the-D is a very bright young coach, he's still only a few layers deep. As he grows he will have more inscrutable arrangements and goings on pre-snap, and be more diverse and unpredictable. So, good as he is, he is not even QUITE there as a DC let alone a head coach. He vitally needs more time with oldtimers like Kelly, Martin, Elliott, Hiestand.

The reason that this didn't hurt us during the season is that nobody had the amount of film nor the time to figure it all out, and almost no one is Nick Saban. Also, during the season we could make up for sometimes being figured out by just being so dammed superior physically that it didn't matter. Against Alabama, we saw that Nix was obviously physically superior to Jones on almost every play, but in the eleven man plan it almost never made any difference.

Was this "on" Diaco? Well, only philosophically. It was merely that Bob's at one stage in his evolution and Saban's at another. Add in the time needed for Saban to make use of his experience advantage and we got an uneven playing field. None of this diminishes the fact that Alabama won the football game decisively. It indicates something important to me, however. Our players were closer to their players in talent [by far] than it looked. Each play was loaded before it was snapped.

I agree with what you say. I saw the full quote (in bold) elsewhere, and it really struck me, too. I would add, though, that it speaks for a failure of our D/Diaco to have a counterpunch in store when it was clear that what had worked (when teams had less time to prep) wasn't going to work Monday. By "failure," I don't mean, of course, that Diaco is a sucky coach; I believe quite quite the opposite. But I read the Jones quote essentially as a positive, but affirmation that we need greater depth, yes, but even more so, greater experience -- it's what allowed the Bama OLinemen to make the adjustments on the fly, where our guys weren't really up to it, schematically.

One reason I was worried about the game in advance was that Bama had 7 guys slated to go in the first 100 of the NFL draft; we had just Eifert and Manti. Does that mean our talent is less? To me, no. I bet in two years ND has seven, or close to it, in the top 100. It's that our experience/development is less. And this is why I have such hope for the future.

 

[Irish#1]

This probably should go elsewhere, but it was brought up here. It concerns our sharp and evolving DC, Bobby-the-D.

There was what was to me a very significant thing said by Barrett Jones after the game about our defense [and to preface this: I believe that comments by veteran "coaches-coming-to-be" players like Jones are VERY much worth listening to]:

"They're good because they're simple. But they're simple." He went on to say that given all the time that they [read: Saban] had to prepare for the game, the Notre Dame defense was simply patterned and predictable to the point where he and his buddies knew exactly where they would all be, angles and all, if they did certain formations and motions. That unusual foreknowledge allowed subtleties of knowing exactly who to block and how. Jones said that this made it relatively easy for linemen to get to the second level and at the right angles.

What does this say? Well, it explains a lot about the game, of course. But it also says that while Bobby-the-D is a very bright young coach, he's still only a few layers deep. As he grows he will have more inscrutable arrangements and goings on pre-snap, and be more diverse and unpredictable. So, good as he is, he is not even QUITE there as a DC let alone a head coach. He vitally needs more time with oldtimers like Kelly, Martin, Elliott, Hiestand.

The reason that this didn't hurt us during the season is that nobody had the amount of film nor the time to figure it all out, and almost no one is Nick Saban. Also, during the season we could make up for sometimes being figured out by just being so dammed superior physically that it didn't matter. Against Alabama, we saw that Nix was obviously physically superior to Jones on almost every play, but in the eleven man plan it almost never made any difference.

Was this "on" Diaco? Well, only philosophically. It was merely that Bob's at one stage in his evolution and Saban's at another. Add in the time needed for Saban to make use of his experience advantage and we got an uneven playing field. None of this diminishes the fact that Alabama won the football game decisively. It indicates something important to me, however. Our players were closer to their players in talent [by far] than it looked. Each play was loaded before it was snapped.

I agree. I read the same comments. As much as I like Diacco, I never thought he would get any serious interest for another HC position yet. He's relatively young at his position and still has a lot to learn, like making in game adjustments. He's probbaly got a lot of notes from the NCG that will help him grow as a DC.

 

[50milesSE ND]

It's crazy how one's perspective can change. Some people on here really lost their mind with this situation.

At one moment, BK is a traitor, Jack is an imbecile and our recruiting class is going to implode.

Now this morning.... BK is honorable, Jack is a savvy genius and recruits are fawning over the fact that BK "turned down" the Eagles because ND is a better gig.

Just funny how things change so quickly.

I agree 100%, and thankfully that's what makes us fans. PASSION can drive people do great things, and it make them do horrible things. Whether we always agree or never agree we are all fans. GO IRISH

 

[palinurus]

Per Mike Frank from ISD:

He acknowledges that his thoughts here are his opinions based upon 3rd and 4th hand information, but obviously he’s more plugged in than most/all of us. He believes BK had genuine interest in the NFL (and it's obvious at this point that the Eagles had genuine interest in him), and that it was not just an either/or leverage ploy. And he believes BK still has genuine NFL interest, and we won’t likely see a move any time soon but who knows 5 years or so down the road. Also believes Swarbrick when he says that a raise and extension for BK has been in the works for weeks, and thinks he’ll be bumped up into the neighborhood of $5M per year. And believes that a budget increase for assistant coaches’ pay is also something BK wants.

All of this makes sense to me. A few have suggested, or perhaps insisted, that all of this was merely a leverage ploy. Mike Frank doesn’t agree with this assessment. Who knows for sure, but my read on the situation is more consistent with his than not.

I agree with this. I also think, even after the fact, that it should have been handled better, not because we as fans deserve it, but because it risked a recruiting class that is going to be an excellent one. Unless the report that Kelly's assistants did not knowing what was going on is false, it sounded, from reports, like they were playing the Little Dutchmen with some recruits; that's an unfortunate risk. Yes, it was just three or four days, but the exercise was both, paradoxically, too public and too secret, and made it hard on the assistants, unless, as I say, the coaches knew better. If they did know better, that seems to argue that it was a leverage move. If they didn't, that seems to argue that Kelly had real interest. I believe that he did.

Fact is, I don't know which it was. I suspect most of us don't, for sure. So I am not going to call guys "dumb" or "foolish" because they believe one or the other. I think you can make arguments both ways, but I tend to think the weight of the argument favors a sincere exploration. I do think there are significant advantages to the Eagles post, esp. from a guy like Kelly's perspective; he's a guy who expects to succeed, seems to be all about challenges, and is extremely confident (even has a charged ego, plus a riverboat gambler instinct, as well we know).

One other point: I don't hold it against anyone who was concerned or, in retrospect, maybe overreacted. These things are clearer in retrospect; at the time, as much as we didn't want to lose Kelly, we really really didn't want to blow a great class, esp. not for the sake of too public/too secret dalliance with the Eagles. Not when we feel we are so close to being back on top. We're all half crazy about ND anyway, or we wouldn't spend so much time here. Crazy people do nutty things.

 

[ARALOU]

I hear alot about depth. I agree depth is an issue at ND, presently. I do not believe depth was the only issue in the NC. Bama drove in the first series for a TD. Ran it in on top of that. Irish had not had that happen all season. It had an impact on the game. No adjustments didn't help. The D looked like a weakness instead of the reason they got there. The talent level, size, strength, and coaching beat the Irish. The Irish did show some fight and had some positive moments.
In Bama's only loss they were in a position to win that game. A turnover ended that hope. In the LSU and Georgia games they were unstoppable when they had to be. When Bama is executing nobody beats them. They are that good. The Irish will get better. Count on it. he experience was good. Think if OSU is eligible? Irish play them for the NC and neither belonged on the same field as Bama. As bad as I hate to say that.

The playoffs should keep some of that from happening and I think the Irish will be in the mix eventually.

 

[rikkitikki08]

All i know is that i love ND with all my heart, always will. Im glad kelly decided to stay......that is all

 

[Rhode Irish]

Notre Dame AD: I was not leveraged by Brian Kelly's Eagles interview - CBSSports.com

As I said yesterday the last time this was brought up, I don't think you can put any stock into what people say to the press after a situation is resolved. I love Jack and think he's the best AD in the country, and I'm saying this not as criticism but in total agreement with his approach: he HAS TO say that he wasn't leveraged. Can you imagine him saying anything different??

I'm not going to re-explain my whole thought process on this, but if you care here is my explanation from yesterday.

 

[EifertPower]

I hear alot about depth. I agree depth is an issue at ND, presently. I do not believe depth was the only issue in the NC. Bama drove in the first series for a TD. Ran it in on top of that. Irish had not had that happen all season. It had an impact on the game. No adjustments didn't help. The D looked like a weakness instead of the reason they got there. The talent level, size, strength, and coaching beat the Irish. The Irish did show some fight and had some positive moments.
In Bama's only loss they were in a position to win that game. A turnover ended that hope. In the LSU and Georgia games they were unstoppable when they had to be. When Bama is executing nobody beats them. They are that good. The Irish will get better. Count on it. he experience was good. Think if OSU is eligible? Irish play them for the NC and neither belonged on the same field as Bama. As bad as I hate to say that.

The playoffs should keep some of that from happening and I think the Irish will be in the mix eventually.

I hear somewhat what you are saying, but I also look at it that Alabama easily could have lost 3 games during the season. If Les Miles keeps stuff in his hat or if their FG kicker makes that fg, Alabama loses. If Georgia spikes the ball on that final drive, I'd say Georgia would've probably beaten Alabama.

Maybe ND just had a bad game against Alabama or their inexperience hurt them. But to say ND and OSU didn't belong on the same field as a team that lost 1 game and was fortunate not to lose 2 more just is another way of saying the SEC is so superior than everyone else.

 

[Old Man Mike]

And the man with the Crown said to the unwashed masses: believe in my press releases and I will lead you. And all the people said: Yay-ah!!, and were led.

And so it was and so it will be.

 

[ARALOU]

Maybe. I respect your opinion. I actually wasn't talking about SEC as a whole. Just Bama. And trust me, I don't like it but that's the way I saw it.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

This probably should go elsewhere, but it was brought up here. It concerns our sharp and evolving DC, Bobby-the-D.

There was what was to me a very significant thing said by Barrett Jones after the game about our defense [and to preface this: I believe that comments by veteran "coaches-coming-to-be" players like Jones are VERY much worth listening to]:

"They're good because they're simple. But they're simple." He went on to say that given all the time that they [read: Saban] had to prepare for the game, the Notre Dame defense was simply patterned and predictable to the point where he and his buddies knew exactly where they would all be, angles and all, if they did certain formations and motions. That unusual foreknowledge allowed subtleties of knowing exactly who to block and how. Jones said that this made it relatively easy for linemen to get to the second level and at the right angles.

What does this say? Well, it explains a lot about the game, of course. But it also says that while Bobby-the-D is a very bright young coach, he's still only a few layers deep. As he grows he will have more inscrutable arrangements and goings on pre-snap, and be more diverse and unpredictable. So, good as he is, he is not even QUITE there as a DC let alone a head coach. He vitally needs more time with oldtimers like Kelly, Martin, Elliott, Hiestand.

The reason that this didn't hurt us during the season is that nobody had the amount of film nor the time to figure it all out, and almost no one is Nick Saban. Also, during the season we could make up for sometimes being figured out by just being so dammed superior physically that it didn't matter. Against Alabama, we saw that Nix was obviously physically superior to Jones on almost every play, but in the eleven man plan it almost never made any difference.

Was this "on" Diaco? Well, only philosophically. It was merely that Bob's at one stage in his evolution and Saban's at another. Add in the time needed for Saban to make use of his experience advantage and we got an uneven playing field. None of this diminishes the fact that Alabama won the football game decisively. It indicates something important to me, however. Our players were closer to their players in talent [by far] than it looked. Each play was loaded before it was snapped.

I almost hate to comment on one of the deepest, most sophisticated posts ever, on Irish Envy.

Here is the one thing I would like to emphasise: Everyone wants to lay the blame for the NC game at the players feet, lack of talent, depth, bad playing, flat, everything that has been heard before. We had the talent as Mike stated. You want a championship team? Wake up and see where the deficit is.

Furthermore, we had the horses this year, without sophisticated defensive schemes that we could shut down any offense, even if they saw this.

So now that the great Coaching Escape 2013 is history, some of these things need to be addressed to "win the big one", and while I have your attention; they have to be addressed to win enough of the little ones to get to the "big one".

Navy '10 comes up in NC game for the defensive planning; Tulsa, and '11's miscues come up in the offensive planning. I don't care what happened this last week, (almost). Forget the coaching fiasco. The staff needs to grow up in sophistication.

 

[ARALOU]

This^ Innovation.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And the man with the Crown said to the unwashed masses: believe in my press releases and I will lead you. And all the people said: Yay-ah!!, and were led.

And so it was and so it will be.

Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
Voltaire

Anyone who seeks to destroy the passions instead of controlling them is trying to play the angel.
Voltaire

As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities.
Voltaire


Couldn't say it as well myself!

 

[phgreek]

Per Mike Frank from ISD:

He acknowledges that his thoughts here are his opinions based upon 3rd and 4th hand information, but obviously he’s more plugged in than most/all of us. He believes BK had genuine interest in the NFL (and it's obvious at this point that the Eagles had genuine interest in him), and that it was not just an either/or leverage ploy. And he believes BK still has genuine NFL interest, and we won’t likely see a move any time soon but who knows 5 years or so down the road. Also believes Swarbrick when he says that a raise and extension for BK has been in the works for weeks, and thinks he’ll be bumped up into the neighborhood of $5M per year. And believes that a budget increase for assistant coaches’ pay is also something BK wants.

All of this makes sense to me. A few have suggested, or perhaps insisted, that all of this was merely a leverage ploy. Mike Frank doesn’t agree with this assessment. Who knows for sure, but my read on the situation is more consistent with his than not.

Pft...that guy don't know nuthin'

I tend to agree with this take...to some its naiveté. To me, it makes sense.

In terms of negotiations...My style is John Huntsman Sr.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

So...


Do we get Anzalone back?

 

[ulukinatme]

So...


Do we get Anzalone back?

No, already enrolled. IMO he was looking for another out, he was never 100%.

 

[ThePiombino]

So...


Do we get Anzalone back?

I know you're being semi-facetious, but I'm holding out to that the program will somehow come out of that situation with a net positive.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Hey, guys.

First post in this thread.....what's been going on?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It's crazy how one's perspective can change. Some people on here really lost their mind with this situation.

At one moment, BK is a traitor, Jack is an imbecile and our recruiting class is going to implode.

Now this morning.... BK is honorable, Jack is a savvy genius and recruits are fawning over the fact that BK "turned down" the Eagles because ND is a better gig.

Just funny how things change so quickly.

It is like this. When we were kids and made a complete mess of the bathroom, and were about to get caught, what did we do? Instead of turn each other in, we covered each other's a$$ and locked the dog in the bathroom after rubbing toothpaste all over his mouth.

Now, we did good. Really good for short notice. But, if Mom hadn't been caught up in the moment, she would have probably noticed our pedestrian disinterest, and our red faces. As it was, she had a mess on our hands and had dinner to fix. I knew my sister was the devil when she offered to clean part of the mess up for the brownie points.

It doesn't matter how bad anyone or everyone screwed up in this situation, you will never know because they were the only ones there, and they have every incentive to make this look like (above average, nee, excellent) business as usual. So the parties involved could have seriously screwed the pooch on this one, (and lost a top talent, even if he was a flake) and when the money got distributed, and the story was put out, and everybody in agreement, the thing that was rotten, became beautiful.

Only problem is, some people don't sit well with this revisionist truth. Depending on their level of comfort and desperation, they may attack others who don't buy the company line. The social nature of our being is a wonderful thing.

Also, justification by changing values:

No, already enrolled. IMO he was looking for another out, he was never 100%.

"We didn't really want him;" "he didn't really want us." The fact of the matter the kid was only gone after the situation happened. Maybe there was tension with nutcase dad and this was one way out, where another would have been showing up for class at ND? So the obvious solution is to diminish the loss, or make it a gain . . .

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

It is like this. When we were kids and made a complete mess of the bathroom, and were about to get caught, what did we do? Instead of turn each other in, we covered each other's a$$ and locked the dog in the bathroom after rubbing toothpaste all over his mouth.

Now, we did good. Really good for short notice. But, if Mom hadn't been caught up in the moment, she would have probably noticed our pedestrian disinterest, and our red faces. As it was, she had a mess on our hands and had dinner to fix. I knew my sister was the devil when she offered to clean part of the mess up for the brownie points.

It doesn't matter how bad anyone or everyone screwed up in this situation, you will never know because they were the only ones there, and they have every incentive to make this look like (above average, nee, excellent) business as usual. So the parties involved could have seriously screwed the pooch on this one, (and lost a top talent, even if he was a flake) and when the money got distributed, and the story was put out, and everybody in agreement, the thing that was rotten, became beautiful.

Only problem is, some people don't sit well with this revisionist truth. Depending on their level of comfort and desperation, they may attack others who don't buy the company line. The social nature of our being is a wonderful thing.

Also, justification by changing values:



We didn't really want him; he didn't really want us. The fact of the matter the kid was only gone after the situation happened. Maybe there was tension with nutcase dad and this was one way out, where another would have been showing up for class at ND? So the obvious solution is to diminish the loss, or make it a gain . . .

Really?? I disagree, but probably more appropriate for his recruiting thread.

I do agree with your assessment Bogs that "what was rotten became beautiful." It really did, and it is really surprising to me how favorably this has worked for BK's image. I think deep down, I will look at him in a different sort of light after this, at least for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to doubt that he is ND, however.

 

[irish1958]

ND, however; but not forever.

 

[stlnd01]

ND, however; but not forever.

Not much is forever. As long as this doesn't become an annual occurrence, I wouldn't get too worried about it.
We should be glad our coach is good enough to be getting NFL attention and wise enough - for now at least - to realize he's better off here.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Here's an opinion leaving all the potential crap of the past in time's downstream as it should be:

1). Brian Kelly is a great football coach and he's not going to change anything about that;

2). Brian Kelly has a VERY high personal performance standard, and takes great pride in bringing excellence to the entire range of the dimensions of any job he has;

3). Brian Kelly is, no doubt, a tough sonavagun to work for, because he's always working his own butt off towards the bigger goal, and won't tolerate you not doing so; [Diaco said that he was the best boss he ever could hope for];

4). Brian Kelly has many high-value character traits. Let me elaborate, as people will doubt some or all of these:
a]. Kelly Cares. This is not just the name of his foundation, but something written on his heart. He does things that he does not have to do, even as Notre Dame coach. [example of that was writing a personal letter with picture to my Mom]. He is not trying to tramp over people's feelings, even though he has to make hard executive decisions. When he [rarely] blows it, he attempts to apologize and do the right thing. [example of his wrong-footed wording of his "my guys" comment].

b]. Kelly is a human being not a robot nor an unfeeling ape. He will get emotional. He will get disappointed and temporarily lose it. He will still jump in the air and fistpump when one of his guys does something good. He will get in the middle of the post-game lockerroom and say the right things heartfelt to his team. Manti Te'o insists on giving his coach a gameball, not only because of 12-0 but because the team loves their coach. Even 12-0 would not elicit that with a self-serving tyrant as a coach.

c]. Kelly is a straightshooter. Given a reasonable lack of naivete, anyone who listens to what Kelly says knows that this coach has an unusually hard time flat lying to you so he doesn't. He will color his comments so as not to give things away to opponents, or to maintain players' positive orientations to their potential for playing time, but ask him if he'd ever interview for job "X", he says, yes, I always explore. I've been listening to him for three years now for some serious dissembling and have not found it.

d]. Kelly DOES like Notre Dame. He likes what ND stands for, as it is what He stands for. He "sells" ND effectively because it's natural for him to do so. He has an entire staff who recruit excellently, because they believe it too [the acceptance speech of Diaco at the coordinator awards show was an over-the-top but excruciatingly honest delivery to the football world of "we're Notre Dame, and you aren't, but you should be". ]

I'm sure that if I planned an essay rather than spewing BS off the top of my head, this could go on far longer. My bottom line is [and this is why I came close to getting really angry a couple of days ago] is that we finally really do have our coach. THIS coach fits this tough situation, which requires a coaching and administrational genius, while having a big heart that cares for the rest of his staff and players deeply.

Do I fear someday losing him? Yes, of course, who wouldn't? Do I think that he will go anytime soon? Flat no. Do I think that he'll ultimately need to leave? With this fan base of unrelenting screaming criticizing unreasonable baboons ........ if we'd just STOP, then no.

 

[Fbolt]

so then was BK's flirtation with the NFL for professional growth or was it for program changes as some would have us believe?

 

[Irish Insanity]

so then was BK's flirtation with the NFL for professional growth or was it for program changes as some would have us believe?

Well since the SEC are so NFLish, he figured he would get into discussions with an NFL franchise to gather information as how to improve our program to compete. I'd say it was more of an undercover like information gathering move

 

[NDinL.A.]

I completely agree that it doesn't make you a traitor. That's ridiculous.

Having said that, having passion doesn't give you an excuse to make an arse of yourself and ND fans, which an incredible amount of fans did. You knew ZERO facts, but yet you flew off the handle repeatedly, and it was cringeworthy.

I mean, think about your behavior. Calling BK a moron, saying that he was already basically gone, and basically posting like a chicken without his head was a joke. (You weren't the only one.) I will never understand the segment of Internet fans who post the first things that pop in their heads, irregardless of facts. Yeah, it's a message board and we're supposed to discuss things, but why not wait until the facts come out just a little before we fly off the handle??? So many of these embarrassing comments could have been avoided had we just waited for the facts to come out.

So it's awesome to be a passionate fan, but if you're going to act overly dramatic and say stupid things, well, people are going to react to it, and rightfully so...

This post got me a red bomb from him...not a response like someone who can handle a conversation, but a negative rep LOL. When you can't handle the conversation, throw a red bomb at him! That'll show him!

Hope that sky didn't fall on your head too hard buddy. And hey, let us know how your search for a replacement for Coach Kelly is going! Cheers!

 

[RubberSoul]

Im the ******* of this board. Every board needs one.

Nobody try to take my position!

 

[Grahambo]

This post got me a red bomb from him...not a response like someone who can handle a conversation, but a negative rep LOL. When you can't handle the conversation, throw a red bomb at him! That'll show him!

Hope that sky didn't fall on your head too hard buddy. And hey, let us know how your search for a replacement for Coach Kelly is going! Cheers!