Jan 7 | BCS National Championship | Alabama

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DomeLover3

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We couldn't run against them. Our OL wasn't getting to the second level at all. It's much like the USC game from last year. Yeah, we abandoned the run, but we had dug ourselves a hole and since we couldn't run, there's no way in hell we were getting back into the game by doing it.

You can't abandon the gameplan in the first half though. We didn't even try to run on the first possession. If we had done that with even mild success of runs of 2 or 3 yards we eat clock at the least and make for more manageable third down situations
 

RubberSoul

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You can't abandon the gameplan in the first half though. We didn't even try to run on the first possession. If we had done that with even mild success of runs of 2 or 3 yards we eat clock at the least and make for more manageable third down situations

Exactly. We didnt even try. Nothing creative in the running or passing game. All of those things I mentioned earlier, we didnt try. We ran up the gut or just chuck it down the sidline. Thats the game plan?? 4th and 5 and you chuck it 30 yards down the field and say who wants it??

Im sorry, it may be unpopular bit the gameplan was garbage.
 

ND NYC

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i had a feeling it was a bad sign of things to come when leading up to the game Kelly said "the team that makes the most mistakes will win this game."

no matter though...no one was beating that bama team last night.
 

chicago51

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Exactly. We didnt even try. Nothing creative in the running or passing game. All of those things I mentioned earlier, we didnt try. We ran up the gut or just chuck it down the sidline. Thats the game plan?? 4th and 5 and you chuck it 30 yards down the field and say who wants it??

Im sorry, it may be unpopular bit the gameplan was garbage.

I love BK but I have said all day this game was not his or the staff's best moment. I think it will be a learning experience for them as well. I do like the fact he didn't scream at Golsen.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I thought Kelly and the staff really **** the bed with the gameplan and play calling. We only run the ball 5 times i. the first half?

The game plan didn't involve 'Bama scoring at will, so it had to change. Chuck Martin said as much in his post-game presser; we never really got into our game plan.

No misdirection, screens, swing passes, slants, toss sweeps, playaction, bootlegs, rollouts, designed qb runs.

Several of these are constraint plays designed to punish a defense that's either cheating inside to stop the run or rushing upfield too aggressively. 'Bama wasn't doing either of those, so they wouldn't have worked.

'Bama didn't even have to bring down a safety to stuff our rushing attack. They very rarely had more than 6-7 guys in the box presnap, yet they still held us to 1.7 yards per attempt. Can't blame that on the play-calling.

Despite all that, we still had some success through the air. If our defense hadn't forgotten how to tackle, we would have been competitive in a low-scoring game.

Also, I wonder if Diaco still thinks he has the best D line in college football?

Our DL played relatively well. Not their fault that the LBs and DBs couldn't tackle.
 

Emcee77

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Despite all that, we still had some success through the air. If our defense hadn't forgotten how to tackle, we would have been competitive in a low-scoring game.



Our DL played relatively well. Not their fault that the LBs and DBs couldn't tackle.

That says it all. I barely recognized our defense last night. We just didn't look like the same team at all.
 

IrishLax

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So I just watched a replay of the game. Here are some interesting takeaways:

1) Louis Nix won his matchup majority time he was 1v1 with Barrett Jones. Not all of them, but most of them for sure. So when he says he wasn't "dominated" I think he was actually correct.

2) Obviously we would've lost anyways but losing KLM I think hurt A LOT. Much more than I realized originally.

3) Our receivers actually played borderline great. Eifert, Jones, Daniels... all of them beat their guy quite often and made some great catches. Golson was late on a TON of his throws. I don't know if his height hurts his vision. The mental side of the game for him is still a work in progress.

4) Our OL is sooooooooo not elite. The left side is OK in terms of talent but wow... I know they were largely better than we are used to in previous years, but when you compare and contrast them with Alabama the difference is just huge. When was the last time we had an OL drafted in the first round?

5) Our defensive scheme was really, really vanilla. Alabama knew how to attack it and they did. I think our staff tried to defensively do the same thing that got us to the game... and that ended up being a horrible decision. Whereas others teams we play would move the ball and then fold in the redzone, this team clearly had the OL and backs to make us pay when they got in close. Hindsight is 20/20, but we needed to be more aggressive and unpredictable.

6) Missed tackles are something everyone saw... but I think the "why" has more to do with Alabama and less to do with ND. At Alabama their two backs are bonafide Heisman level studs who break tackles like Adrian Peterson. At ND we talk about Wood/Riddick/Atkinson/Cam McDaniel being impressive and that being "depth." In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. Compare and contrast the athleticism between McDaniel and Yeldon/Lacey.
 

PANDFAN

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So I just watched a replay of the game. Here are some interesting takeaways:

1) Louis Nix won his matchup majority time he was 1v1 with Barrett Jones. Not all of them, but most of them for sure. So when he says he wasn't "dominated" I think he was actually correct.

2) Obviously we would've lost anyways but losing KLM I think hurt A LOT. Much more than I realized originally.

3) Our receivers actually played borderline great. Eifert, Jones, Daniels... all of them beat their guy quite often and made some great catches. Golson was late on a TON of his throws. I don't know if his height hurts his vision. The mental side of the game for him is still a work in progress.

4) Our OL is sooooooooo not elite. The left side is OK in terms of talent but wow... I know they were largely better than we are used to in previous years, but when you compare and contrast them with Alabama the difference is just huge. When was the last time we had an OL drafted in the first round?

5) Our defensive scheme was really, really vanilla. Alabama knew how to attack it and they did. I think our staff tried to defensively do the same thing that got us to the game... and that ended up being a horrible decision. Whereas others teams we play would move the ball and then fold in the redzone, this team clearly had the OL and backs to make us pay when they got in close. Hindsight is 20/20, but we needed to be more aggressive and unpredictable.

6) Missed tackles are something everyone saw... but I think the "why" has more to do with Alabama and less to do with ND. At Alabama their two backs are bonafide Heisman level studs who break tackles like Adrian Peterson. At ND we talk about Wood/Riddick/Atkinson/Cam McDaniel being impressive and that being "depth." In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. Compare and contrast the athleticism between McDaniel and Yeldon/Lacey.

props to you for even being able to watch it....i agree 100% w/ you...i find it kind of comical when people on here are thinking we are stacked at certain positions...i won't get involved w/ naming players who i feel people give more credit than they deserve...but anyways i think this was a great game to see we are not ready yet but def was a great year of laying a good foundation
 

Whiskeyjack

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4) Our OL is sooooooooo not elite. The left side is OK in terms of talent but wow... I know they were largely better than we are used to in previous years, but when you compare and contrast them with Alabama the difference is just huge. When was the last time we had an OL drafted in the first round?

Agreed. I think our DL is actually better than 'Bama's, but their OL is so much better than ours. 5.8 ypc v. 1.7 ypc, McCarron was virtually never pressured while Golson was running for his life on every passing down, etc.

5) Our defensive scheme was really, really vanilla. Alabama knew how to attack it and they did. I think our staff tried to defensively do the same thing that got us to the game... and that ended up being a horrible decision. Whereas others teams we play would move the ball and then fold in the redzone, this team clearly had the OL and backs to make us pay when they got in close. Hindsight is 20/20, but we needed to be more aggressive and unpredictable.

Absolutely. Our defense has been very predictable all year, but we never faced an offense complete enough to simply step up and take what they wanted from us until 'Bama. Off the top of my head, we need more flexibility and aggression from our OLBs/ Ss and more variation in our coverages (particularly the willingness (athleticism?) to use man coverage).

6) Missed tackles are something everyone saw... but I think the "why" has more to do with Alabama and less to do with ND. At Alabama their two backs are bonafide Heisman level studs who break tackles like Adrian Peterson. At ND we talk about Wood/Riddick/Atkinson/Cam McDaniel being impressive and that being "depth." In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. Compare and contrast the athleticism between McDaniel and Yeldon/Lacey.

Lacey's projected as a 2nd round pick. I have a hard time believing he's that much better than Stepfan Taylor or LeVeon Bell, two 3rd-round-projected RBs that we had no trouble tackling earlier in the year.
 
G

Grahambo

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So I just watched a replay of the game. Here are some interesting takeaways:

1) Louis Nix won his matchup majority time he was 1v1 with Barrett Jones. Not all of them, but most of them for sure. So when he says he wasn't "dominated" I think he was actually correct.

2) Obviously we would've lost anyways but losing KLM I think hurt A LOT. Much more than I realized originally.

3) Our receivers actually played borderline great. Eifert, Jones, Daniels... all of them beat their guy quite often and made some great catches. Golson was late on a TON of his throws. I don't know if his height hurts his vision. The mental side of the game for him is still a work in progress.

4) Our OL is sooooooooo not elite. The left side is OK in terms of talent but wow... I know they were largely better than we are used to in previous years, but when you compare and contrast them with Alabama the difference is just huge. When was the last time we had an OL drafted in the first round?

5) Our defensive scheme was really, really vanilla. Alabama knew how to attack it and they did. I think our staff tried to defensively do the same thing that got us to the game... and that ended up being a horrible decision. Whereas others teams we play would move the ball and then fold in the redzone, this team clearly had the OL and backs to make us pay when they got in close. Hindsight is 20/20, but we needed to be more aggressive and unpredictable.

6) Missed tackles are something everyone saw... but I think the "why" has more to do with Alabama and less to do with ND. At Alabama their two backs are bonafide Heisman level studs who break tackles like Adrian Peterson. At ND we talk about Wood/Riddick/Atkinson/Cam McDaniel being impressive and that being "depth." In the grand scheme of things, it isn't. Compare and contrast the athleticism between McDaniel and Yeldon/Lacey.

Bravo for that alone.

The three main things for me was by far the (1) missed tackles but on our opening drive, I couldn't understand how the (2) Eifert catch/non-catch was not even reviewed. BK even took a TO and still no review. Then the (3) fumble that wasn't. Those seemed to have really negatively impacted the mindset of the team.
 
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Grahambo

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Agreed. I think our DL is actually better than 'Bama's, but their OL is so much better than ours. 5.8 ypc v. 1.7 ypc, McCarron was virtually never pressured while Golson was running for his life on every passing down, etc.

Definitely 2 and possibly 3 1st round draft picks on that OL..in this draft alone. Martin is the closest one to being a 1st round on our OL and probably is more then likely a 2nd rounder at that.



Absolutely. Our defense has been very predictable all year, but we never faced an offense complete enough to simply step up and take what they wanted from us until 'Bama. Off the top of my head, we need more flexibility and aggression from our OLBs/ Ss and more variation in our coverages (particularly the willingness (athleticism?) to use man coverage).

I thought we would have seen a bit more blitzing. We never really were much of a blitzing team to begin with but when we weren't getting any pressure, I thought Diaco was gonna dial it up a bit..never seemed to happen.

Lacey's projected as a 2nd round pick. I have a hard time believing he's that much better than Stepfan Taylor or LeVeon Bell, two 3rd-round-projected RBs that we had no trouble tackling earlier in the year.

Again, those missed tackles made him probably better looking then he really is. That's not to knock him either but he isn't Trent Richardson.
 

Emcee77

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Absolutely. Our defense has been very predictable all year, but we never faced an offense complete enough to simply step up and take what they wanted from us until 'Bama. Off the top of my head, we need more flexibility and aggression from our OLBs/ Ss and more variation in our coverages (particularly the willingness (athleticism?) to use man coverage).

I think this is right. Games like last night's show what a young, inexperienced defensive coordinator Diaco is. It reminded me of the Navy game in 2010, when we simply could not stop the triple option. Then against Army later that season, he began to use three safeties at a time (forerunner of the "star" position) and we have had no trouble with the triple option ever since. Last night, Diaco thought we could just line up and handle whatever Bama threw at us, just like he did against Navy in 2010, but we needed a more creative gameplan than that. Basically, he was just outcoached. But he'll learn from it and if/when we see Bama again, or a complete offense like Bama, he'll be ready.

Lacey's projected as a 2nd round pick. I have a hard time believing he's that much better than Stepfan Taylor or LeVeon Bell, two 3rd-round-projected RBs that we had no trouble tackling earlier in the year.

Man, we really made Lacey look good last night. I honestly don't know whether it was him or us. Probably both.
 

IrishLax

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Lacey's projected as a 2nd round pick. I have a hard time believing he's that much better than Stepfan Taylor or LeVeon Bell, two 3rd-round-projected RBs that we had no trouble tackling earlier in the year.

See, maybe we just made him look better than he is a la the Jamarcus Russell. But I'm inclined to say he's just underrated. To be me, he's a more physically gifted Alfred Morris type RB who just refuses to get taken down by any kind of arm tackle.

Yeah, Taylor and Bell are hard nosed runners as well but neither struck as quite as agile as Lacey. I seriously do not understand how Lacey laterally as quickly as he does at that size.
 

Whiskeyjack

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I think this is right. Games like last night's show what a young, inexperienced defensive coordinator Diaco is. It reminded me of the Navy game in 2010, when we simply could not stop the triple option. Then against Army later that season, he began to use three safeties at a time (forerunner of the "star" position) and we have had no trouble with the triple option ever since. Last night, Diaco thought we could just line up and handle whatever Bama threw at us, just like he did against Navy in 2010, but we needed a more creative gameplan than that. Basically, he was just outcoached. But he'll learn from it and if/when we see Bama again, or a complete offense like Bama, he'll be ready.

I had the same thought, but that was clearly a schematic failure. Last night was the first game I can remember where Diaco's defense also looked fundamentally unsound.

Perhaps the team didn't do much live tackling in the lead up to the game out of concern for potential injury. Perhaps the two bad calls in the 1st quarter combined with 'Bama's intimidation factor to affect the team's psyche. Whatever it was, I wish I had an explanation for why our defense tackled so poorly. That was not the same defense that carried us to the title game.

Man, we really made Lacey look good last night. I honestly don't know whether it was him or us. Probably both.

He ain't Hershel Walker. I'm more inclined to blame the factors listed above than the super-human athleticism of 'Bama's RBs.
 

NDPhilly

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Really hoping Mahone or Bryant can step in and provide a power RB. In 2012 our "Power" RB was 5'9" 195 lb.
 

Emcee77

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See, maybe we just made him look better than he is a la the Jamarcus Russell. But I'm inclined to say he's just underrated. To be me, he's a more physically gifted Alfred Morris type RB who just refuses to get taken down by any kind of arm tackle.

Yeah, Taylor and Bell are hard nosed runners as well but neither struck as quite as agile as Lacey. I seriously do not understand how Lacey moves laterally as quickly as he does at that size.

Yeah, he's like a freaking crab. Uncanny ability to scuttle away from tacklers. Weird preternatural elusiveness.
 

irishpat183

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See, maybe we just made him look better than he is a la the Jamarcus Russell. But I'm inclined to say he's just underrated. To be me, he's a more physically gifted Alfred Morris type RB who just refuses to get taken down by any kind of arm tackle.

Yeah, Taylor and Bell are hard nosed runners as well but neither struck as quite as agile as Lacey. I seriously do not understand how Lacey laterally as quickly as he does at that size.

After that game, with all the talk of how great we are on D, I believe that Lacy is better.

Dude not only runs hard...but has moves. He's been good all year and was last year as well.

And I agree iwth your earlier post. We are not "stacked" at any postition. RB? Yeah, Cam McDaniel, Robby Toma, and Chris Salvi provide such great depth....LOL

Get rid of the "Rudy's" and get some playmakers back there and then come talk to the Tide. I dont' care how much "heart" a guy has....he needs to be able to play with the big boys physically, if we want to make the next jump.


Let's get more serious about who we put on the field in terms of physical ability.


The IrishMob 13 is a helluva start!
 

ND NYC

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per above...been watching this Lacey all year...i dont understand how he doesnt get more hype up on a national level.
IMO if he doesnt split carries with yeldon all year i think he would have been in the heisman conversation. to me the guys is a beast. granted he gets to run behinf what some are calling the best offesnive line in college football history. but i have been impressed with him all year. would love for him to end up a ny giant when he goes early.
 

NDFANnSouthWest

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per above...been watching this Lacey all year...i dont understand how he doesnt get more hype up on a national level.
IMO if he doesnt split carries with yeldon all year i think he would have been in the heisman conversation. to me the guys is a beast. granted he gets to run behinf what some are calling the best offesnive line in college football history. but i have been impressed with him all year. would love for him to end up a ny giant when he goes early.

Did you see the play when he threw Spond off him like he was 100lbs? Lacy is a beast.
 

Rhode Irish

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It's just funny that the same people who before the season said they would be ecstatic with 8-5, 9-4 are gloom and doom when we go 12-0 and run into a dynasty. We are young, and have an amazing class coming in. Have faith and stand by your team fellas.

x1000000000000

Bunch of people around here need to suck it up.
 

NDBoiler

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Inspired by IrishLax's post, here's my 2 cents:

We need to step back and put things into perspective. For example, ND has just only recently had a full training table for football at the behest of BK IIRC. Saban has established a world class training and nutrition regimen for years down at Bama, so ND's players are naturally going to be behind the curve. Furthermore, it was reported by knowledgeable sources after the game that a side by side comparison of the 2 teams showed a clear size and athleticism advantage on the part of Bama, likely due to this disparity.

This current disadvantage also has the potential to become a positive down the road. To me, you can see the difference to a man on the field between the BK recruits and the Weis recruits (for the most part). BK hasn't even had a player go through his system for a full 4 years. Imagine what it would be like once consistent top level recruits go through Longo's training program. With the combination of top level recruiting and better training, I am confident that ND can raise the bar to compete with schools like Bama.

EDIT: Quarterback development is HUGE too. Golson is just not there yet. In order to win a NC, you need a proven, confident QB unless you have another INSANELY good skill player to lean on or an absoulte killer, aggressive defense (ND's defesne is not an "aggressive" defense, it is more of a containment type defense that did a good job this year of just that - containment - up untl the last game when they ran into overly superior talent).
 
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autry_denson

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This is not directed at anyone in particular, but 2 days after the fact I am growing kind of weary of the discussion reifying the idea that Bama and the SEC are at a different level than ND and the rest of college football.

Alabama beat us easily because of some combination of at least 4 factors:

1) They executed. I didn’t watch too many of their games this year but from what I saw we got one of their best games of the year. If they played against us like they did against A&M things would have been very different.
2) ND played poorly. We just didn’t have a great game, as has been mentioned here—tackling was awful, our linebackers looked lost, Golson made some bad throws, we didn’t convert on some fourth downs, etc.
3) They got some game-changing breaks early. The fumbled punt stands out, obviously. That's a game changer.
4) They are more talented. This is undeniable, but it’s not shocking. We entered this season with a redshirt FR at qb, an entirely new secondary after Slaughter went out, inexperienced WRs, a thin offensive line and depleted special teams. Bama has a truckload of experienced, elite players across the field. Their offensive line dominated the game.

The point here is that #4, talent, was not the only reason we lost. If we played better, they played badly, and we got a couple of breaks we could have beaten Alabama. Moving forward, Alabama will certainly be good next year, but I don’t think they’ll be close to this year’s team after they lose 3 O linemen and multiple D linemen to the draft. Becoming a great team takes a combination of experience and talent – my prediction is that they’ll take a step back next year, despite their soft schedule.

Meanwhile, the gap in talent and depth is closing. In my mind, we will have our most talented team in a long while next year. We’ll likely take a step backward the following year with the loss of so many linemen, but our talent level will still be on the rise. When the combination of talent and experience converges, which could happen next year, 3 years down the line, or some other time, ND can play with anyone.

Alabama destroyed us, but let’s not overreact. They were a better team this year, they caught some breaks, and they played a much better game. They are not invincible.
 
B

Buster Bluth

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I've tried to post on this site many times but I don't type fast enough and I don't trust the spell checker. We tell ourselves we're good because we beat the Sooners in Norman or we beat the dumbest coach in football at USC. I can't get on this site past a bunch of people counting heads at a pep ralley.We've got little kids playing against young men. If you're gonna play a freshman QB he better be 6 4 and 240 pounds and he better have 2 guys who can outrun his arm and go get the ball. How many were at the pep ralley again?

Good call.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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C'mon, Buster, it is time for all of us loyal suns to ralley round . . .
 
B

Buster Bluth

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Meanwhile, in Alabama...

UYw0n.jpg


(thought we could use a joke these days, this place is rather tense with the BK situation)
 

Rhode Irish

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This is not directed at anyone in particular, but 2 days after the fact I am growing kind of weary of the discussion reifying the idea that Bama and the SEC are at a different level than ND and the rest of college football.

Alabama beat us easily because of some combination of at least 4 factors:

1) They executed. I didn’t watch too many of their games this year but from what I saw we got one of their best games of the year. If they played against us like they did against A&M things would have been very different.
2) ND played poorly. We just didn’t have a great game, as has been mentioned here—tackling was awful, our linebackers looked lost, Golson made some bad throws, we didn’t convert on some fourth downs, etc.
3) They got some game-changing breaks early. The fumbled punt stands out, obviously. That's a game changer.
4) They are more talented. This is undeniable, but it’s not shocking. We entered this season with a redshirt FR at qb, an entirely new secondary after Slaughter went out, inexperienced WRs, a thin offensive line and depleted special teams. Bama has a truckload of experienced, elite players across the field. Their offensive line dominated the game.

The point here is that #4, talent, was not the only reason we lost. If we played better, they played badly, and we got a couple of breaks we could have beaten Alabama. Moving forward, Alabama will certainly be good next year, but I don’t think they’ll be close to this year’s team after they lose 3 O linemen and multiple D linemen to the draft. Becoming a great team takes a combination of experience and talent – my prediction is that they’ll take a step back next year, despite their soft schedule.

Meanwhile, the gap in talent and depth is closing. In my mind, we will have our most talented team in a long while next year. We’ll likely take a step backward the following year with the loss of so many linemen, but our talent level will still be on the rise. When the combination of talent and experience converges, which could happen next year, 3 years down the line, or some other time, ND can play with anyone.

Alabama destroyed us, but let’s not overreact. They were a better team this year, they caught some breaks, and they played a much better game. They are not invincible.

I totally agree with literally every word of this. Great post.
 
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