[NCAAF] vBook: Texas A&M vs Oklahoma

[Me2SouthBend]

Run the ball, bleed the clock.

 

[phork]

Can this game end before we hit the Over? I am glad that Stoops didn't end up here, but I bet he starts revamping his resume soon. Cannot win a big game to save his life.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Could you imagine the pillow fight that would have broken out if OU had played U$C in a bowl?

HOW DARE YOU INSULT PILLOWFIGHTING!!!

 

[woolybug25]

You guys crack me up with the "fire Stoops" talk. Completely blowing it out of proportion if you ask me.

 

[Bishop2b5]

That was a real nice throw right there. Like him or not, kid is definitely for real.

My thought too. Whether you hate the SEC, your team got beat by him (ahem, cough, cough), or whoever you pull for, the kid is just amazing. I remember watching Herschel 30 years ago and thinking I was seeing a once in a lifetime player. Not sure we aren't seeing the same thing now with Manziel.

 

[Ironman8]

So hard to defend him. I don't want to buy into hype but that arm strength and accuracy, plus his crazy QB speed, is just really impressive. A&M, with their 34 incoming recruits, should field 1 extremely good and 2 solid football teams for the next couple years.

 

[BleedBlue&Gold]

Johnny Manziel=Steve Young

 

[Ironman8]

229 yards rushing for Manziel tonight, setting a bowl game record for a QB

 

[Me2SouthBend]

Love the Under.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

229 yards rushing for Manziel tonight, setting a bowl game record for a QB

Lucky he didn't get hurt staying in late for that record.

 

[woolybug25]

Johnny Manziel=Steve Young

Except that Manziel will probably never play significant amounts of NFL football.

 

[phork]

You guys crack me up with the "fire Stoops" talk. Completely blowing it out of proportion if you ask me.

I didn't say fire. But things seem to be stagnating for Stoops in Norman.

 

[Rocky2820]

Except that Manziel will probably never play significant amounts of NFL football.

At least not as a QB.

 

[DomerInHappyValley]

I gave up on this game. Was hoping for a more competitive game. Watching semper fi bowl now.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Except that Manziel will probably never play significant amounts of NFL football.

Come on now Wooly. Guy completed 68% of his passes as a freshman RS. If Russell Wilson taught NFL scouts anything this year, its talent is always most important. If Ryan Lindely, Brian Hoyer, and Thad Lewis started in the NFL this year, I guarantee Johnny Manziel gets his shot.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

@SpenceTillman: Our play is disinterested and soft! Time to clean house!!!!!!! This isn't Sooner Football! Sorry Sooner Nation! Nobody loves them more.

 

[woolybug25]

Come on now Wooly. Guy completed 68% of his passes as a freshman RS. If Russell Wilson taught NFL scouts anything this year, its talent is always most important. If Ryan Lindely, Brian Hoyer, and Thad Lewis started in the NFL this year, I guarantee Johnny Manziel gets his shot.

We'll see. Manziel is 6ft tall, white and has a game based off of scrambling. How many successful QB's in the NFL fit that mold over the last decade?

Wilson is the closest, but he has a different game than Manziel and also completely alone as a profile of an NFL QB. No one thought he would do what he has done this year and he is the only guy in the NFL like that.

 

[greyhammer90]

We'll see. Manziel is 6ft tall, white and has a game based off of scrambling. How many successful QB's in the NFL fit that mold over the last decade?

Wilson is the closest, but he has a different game than Manziel and also completely alone as a profile of an NFL QB. No one thought he would do what he has done this year and he is the only guy in the NFL like that.

How many true freshmen QB's have started, been the sole reason for a eleven win season, shattered conference records, and won the Heisman?

Manziel doesn't fit any mold, but he's scraping by.

 

[phork]

How many true freshmen QB's have started, been the sole reason for a eleven win season, shattered conference records, and won the Heisman?

Manziel doesn't fit any mold, but he's scraping by.

Red Shirt freshman.

 

[STLDomer]

Just think of Johnny and Texas A&M would have got a shot at Texas (who OU rolled over)...

 

[BobD]

I could care less about either of these teams, their coaches or their QB. I just used them for vbucks.

 

[woolybug25]

How many true freshmen QB's have started, been the sole reason for a eleven win season, shattered conference records, and won the Heisman?

Manziel doesn't fit any mold, but he's scraping by.

There have been a ton of scrambling, short QB's that have thrived in college. 99% of them are never heard from again. Guys like Eric Crouch played just like Manziel. Won the Heisman, blah, blah, blah. None of them are in the NFL.

BTW, let's be real about the "sole reason for an eleven win season" yaya. This kid has TWO first round offensive tackles playing on his offensive line. I can't remember that ever happening. Manziel has had a great year, but I think it is simply untrue that he is "sole" reason for their success. They have a lot of good players and coaches that deserve their share of the props too.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

We'll see. Manziel is 6ft tall, white and has a game based off of scrambling. How many successful QB's in the NFL fit that mold over the last decade?

Wilson is the closest, but he has a different game than Manziel and also completely alone as a profile of an NFL QB. No one thought he would do what he has done this year and he is the only guy in the NFL like that.

I agree with you to an extent. Where I think we differ... is that I believe Johnny Manziel will continue to adapt as RGIII did through his college career(Not saying he will be as good as RG3). I think its just crazy to write this guy off as a RS Freshman. This isn't Tim Tebow with horrible throwing mechanics, and it isn't Eric Crouch(which I've heard comparisons to). This guys ceiling is sky-high. Also, the commentators today made a interesting comment today that he may not be down growing just yet. Obviously, that wouldn't be normal but well have to wait and see on that one. Honestly, before the Bama game I had the same opinion as you. That he would never play in the league, especially seeing how much he struggled vs LSU and Florida. But in my opinion he has already increased tenfold since the beginning of the year. It is going to be scary to see how good he is next year. Only worry is that he won't have two of the best tackles in the country blocking for him so well see on that as well.

 

[Junkhead]

I want to hate "Johnny Football". Whether he makes it in the NFL or not, he has had an amazing season for a redshirt freshman. Grudging respect. Ugh.

 

[woolybug25]

I agree with you to an extent. Where I think we differ... is that I believe Johnny Manziel will continue to adapt as RGIII did through his college career(Not saying he will be as good as RG3). I think its just crazy to write this guy off as a RS Freshman. This isn't Tim Tebow with horrible throwing mechanics, and it isn't Eric Crouch(which I've heard comparisons to). This guys ceiling is sky-high. Also, the commentators today made a interesting comment today that he may not be down growing just yet. Obviously, that wouldn't be normal but well have to wait and see on that one. Honestly, before the Bama game I had the same opinion as you. That he would never play in the league, especially seeing how much he struggled vs LSU and Florida. But in my opinion he has already increased tenfold since the beginning of the year. It is going to be scary to see how good he is next year. Only worry is that he won't have two of the best tackles in the country blocking for him so well see on that as well.

Why is that comparison unfair? Both Heisman winners. Both short, white dudes. Both made their bones off of scrambling.

I don't see why that is unfair? They are both 6' and 200ish pounds, so it's not like Manziel has this physical ceiling that he hasn't reached yet. They play exactly alike as well. What makes his ceiling higher, exactly?

Here's the thing with "ceilings", what makes Manziel have this potential to become significantly better?. He isn't going to grow into his frame or gain/lose necessary weight. If there is some type of "ceiling" that everyone is seeing, what makes it up? As I mentioned, he is playing with two first round tackles. I literally cant think of one QB in recent history that has ever had that luxury. I wouldn't be suprised at all if he came back to reality as defenses see more of him and has to play without two NFL tackles protecting him.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Why is that comparison unfair? Both Heisman winners. Both short, white dudes. Both made their bones off of scrambling.

I don't see why that is unfair? They are both 6' and 200ish pounds, so it's not like Manziel has this physical ceiling that he hasn't reached yet. They play exactly alike as well. What makes his ceiling higher, exactly?

Here's the thing with "ceilings", what makes Manziel have this potential to become significantly better?. He isn't going to grow into his frame or gain/lose necessary weight. If there is some type of "ceiling" that everyone is seeing, what makes it up? As I mentioned, he is playing with two first round tackles. I literally cant think of one QB in recent history that has ever had that luxury. I wouldn't be suprised at all if he came back to reality as defenses see more of him and has to play without two NFL tackles protecting him.

Passing Rushing
YEAR CMP ATT CMP% YDS TD INT ATT YDS TD
1997 Redshirt
1998 49 101 48.5 601 4 4 96 459 5
1999 83 160 51.9 1269 7 4 180 889 16
2000 75 156 48.1 1101 11 7 169 971 20
2001 105 189 55.6 1510 7 10 203 1115 18
Totals 312 606 51.5 4481 29 25 648 3434 59

Those are Eric Crouch's college stats. Apologies those didnt paste properly.
Eric Crouch Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (Link)

PASSING STATS
YEAR TEAM CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2012
TA&M
273 400 68.3 3419 8.5 24 89 8 155.9

As you can see. Eric Crouch 5th year he had more Interceptions then TD's. It is just a riduclous comparison im sorry.

 

[greyhammer90]

There have been a ton of scrambling, short QB's that have thrived in college. 99% of them are never heard from again. Guys like Eric Crouch played just like Manziel. Won the Heisman, blah, blah, blah. None of them are in the NFL.

BTW, let's be real about the "sole reason for an eleven win season" yaya. This kid has TWO first round offensive tackles playing on his offensive line. I can't remember that ever happening. Manziel has had a great year, but I think it is simply untrue that he is "sole" reason for their success. They have a lot of good players and coaches that deserve their share of the props too.

Obviously the "sole reason" is a bit of hyperbole, after all he can't snap the ball to himself. But I would still say he has contributed to his teams record and success as much if not more than any other football player in the country. So yeah, respect to his line, but Manziel is the reason they're where they are.

 

[woolybug25]

Passing Rushing
YEAR CMP ATT CMP% YDS TD INT ATT YDS TD
1997 Redshirt
1998 49 101 48.5 601 4 4 96 459 5
1999 83 160 51.9 1269 7 4 180 889 16
2000 75 156 48.1 1101 11 7 169 971 20
2001 105 189 55.6 1510 7 10 203 1115 18
Totals 312 606 51.5 4481 29 25 648 3434 59

Those are Eric Crouch's college stats. Apologies those didnt paste properly.
Eric Crouch Stats | College Football at Sports-Reference.com (Link)

PASSING STATS
YEAR TEAM CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
2012
TA&M
273 400 68.3 3419 8.5 24 89 8 155.9

As you can see. Eric Crouch 5th year he had more Interceptions then TD's. It is just a riduclous comparison im sorry.

First of all, even according to your stats, he didn't throw more picks than TD's in any year. Furthermore, the 5th year in question he won the Heisman.

You know the rest is simply an unfair way to look at QB's. I could compare Peyton Manning's stats to Case Keenum and make that same argument that you made there. I could say, "well Case Keenum threw for more yards and had a better passer rating, so he must have been a better QB than Peyton in college". Different times, different schemes. Fact is is that Couch won the Heisman too. In fact, he achieved more than Manziel because he won a title too. Today's pass happy spread offenses make silly stats that shouldn't be compared to at face value.

Anybody that is old enough to have seen Crouch play will tell you that they are very similar in style, substance and meaningfulness to their respective teams.

Also.... I don't see where that shows me that Manziel has a higher ceiling than what he has played too. I'm still not getting that point.

 

[Riddickulous]

Anyone still think Te'o deserved the Heisman after tonight?

 

[woolybug25]

Anyone still think Te'o deserved the Heisman after tonight?

I didn't realize that bowl games had anything to do with it? Furthermore, are you going to post something like this when Teo has a monster game in the Natty?