Nose Tackle/ D-Line Discussion

[chicago51]

Note to self : don't post from phone anymore

It is something that isn't talked about one of many the reasons ND's defense has been so strong is the play of Prince Shembo at OLB.

With Ishaq and the likely commitment of AQM the CAT LB position (as well as the Dog LB with J. Smith) should be strong for years to come. It helps when you have those Terrell Suggs/James Harrison type of guys to rush the passer.

 

[Irish#1]

If/When Diaco leaves, and with all of the talent coming in on the defensive side, I wouldn't be opposed to an evolution from this "conservative" defense to a swarming, aggressive, intentionally ball-hawking defense. I loved the defense BK had in his first two seasons at UC. Sacks, TFL, and INTs all in the top fifteen nationally.

Not sure if this was BKs defensive preference, or if he was simply letting his d-coordinator call the aggresive D, as he lets Diaco run the "control" defense now.

If we had experienced talent at the corners, then I think you would have seen that this year.

Ther's also something to be said for not sending pressure all the time. If you send pressure most every play, the teams with good lines will adjust and become comfortable defending it. When they don't know it's coming is when it is most effective.

 

[dublinirish]

Generally teams will blitz heavily if they feel their Dlinemen cant get a pass rush on their own. When you have Tuitt, Nix and Shembo constantly getting heat you really dont need to blitz all that much.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

I just wanted to point out that Nix doesn't play every single play of every single game. In fact, he comes out of the game quite a bit (as do all the d-lineman). Now, some would point to the Pitt game as a glimpse at what the defense is without Nix, but I would contend that everyone was below-par for most of the day in that game.

Springmann is listed at 6'6" 300, but he looks skinny as a rail and has a massive frame to add weight. Also remember that Chase Hounshell was playing nose tackle last year even though he's really not huge (and he made plays, as Springmann has this year).

As long as Nix returns for next year, I am not at all concerned about 2014.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I said in a different thread: Nix stuns the center of the opposing O-Line on third and short. Most of the time there is NO movement forward at all. We have no one else who does that. When that opposing O-Line center is stoned cold, the RB or the QB usually runs right into the butt of their own linemen. Then our vultures swarm in for the kill. And we are off the field, because the opposing playcaller thinks that this is going to happen every time the Mountain is in there. And he's right.

Sure, NDs defense will survive without Lou; but not as utterly scary to a third-and-short play caller. Other teams who do not have their own Big Lous can have really great defenses, but they have to do it with super-elites essentially everywhere else. Notre Dame is on its way to having just that sort of future defense with our astonishing hoard of LB and DB talent, and our seemingly magical ability to get 4* quality DEs. But then we'll be doing it SEC style with elites everywhere and flying.

But we won't have Big Lou and it is OBVIOUSLY harder without him. Never in my recent ND-watching life have I seen the opponent come up to the line of scrimmage on third and one and said: I wonder how stupid the Playcaller is? Will he actually try to run up the middle? .... Dammmm I'm going to miss the Mountain In The Middle.

 

[Irish YJ]

OMM - me thinks the same. Nix is a certified 2 gap guy. Sometimes more like a 3 gap guy due to his penetration.

 

[drayer54]

Vince Wilfork in an 18 year old is the goal. Everything else is just in terms of that.

Nix will be hard to replace.

I'm sure he would't mind being termed a dominant penetrator in an internet forum either.

 

[Emcee77]

If he comes here and is destined to play end, one would have to assume the staff is thinking Day is Nix's replacement, no?

I think the plan is to beef Springmann up a little and use him as our primary nose.

No doubt Day will play spend some time there too though, as will Tuitt and Vanderdoes (hopefully) in pass rush situations.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think the plan is to beef Springmann up a little and use him as our primary nose.

No doubt Day will play spend some time there too though, as will Tuitt and Vanderdoes (hopefully) in pass rush situations.

I can live with this lol

 

[dwshade]

People need to realize it's hard to find more Louis Nix. 3-4 NT with his skill set is very hard to come by.

 

[ThePiombino]

People need to realize it's hard to find more Louis Nix. 3-4 NT with his skill set is very hard to come by.

People do realize, hence the huge interest in EV. I think I can safely say most of us thought he was going to be the heir apparent to Nix.

 

[rtrn2glory]

isn't there a couple big time 2014 noses that we've got some early interest from??

 

[ThePiombino]

isn't there a couple big time 2014 noses that we've got some early interest from??

Yeah but can't expect any of them to be ready to contribute in 2014 realistically.

 

[Domina Nostra]

What?! We are planning on using the 6'3", 295 freak, 5-star athlete as a 3-4 DE, not a NT!!!

I'm not sure I want him anymore...

No wait, I do.

 

[STLDomer]

isn't there a couple big time 2014 noses that we've got some early interest from??

Jay Hayes? I expect him to play NG

In terms of an elite NG prospect there is Khairi Clark but he will probably stay South

How many years does Kona have left?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Jay Hayes? I expect him to play NG

Hayes is currently listed at 6'5'', 270. He looks more like Tuitt than Nix.

How many years does Kona have left?

Only one.

 

[Grahambo]

isn't there a couple big time 2014 noses that we've got some early interest from??

Enoch Smith Jr?

Craig Evans?

 

[Old Man Mike]

Hmmmm..... OK; I can buy into this as an honest recruitment.

What it says to me is that staff believes as they originally did that Sheldon Day and Tommy Schutt were BOTH NTs going-to-happen [and, controversially, they picked the one they thought best --- and I agree with them] and what they have seen from Day indicates that he has the freakish strength and explosive power to do this. [Example of a smallish NT is the VERY troublesome guy from Wake Forest; Day would be significantly bigger than him].

Having Day at NT in 2014 with Springmann as primary backup is not a bad plan especially if the DEs are BIG TROUBLE alongside. It just could be that Vanderdoes is "Tuitt". THAT=s BIG TROUBLE. Who then is on the other side? Jones? That's at least the BIG part. Okwara? That sounds to me like MAJOR TROUBLE. Rochell? Both? Who knows what Matuska develops into? Or is Jones a potential NT? We HAVE studs, and the next class will hopefully add four more.

When we slide down the CAT, then Big Eddie OR Jarron can slide in next to Sheldon and begin their mauling already-disturbed "SEC-Quality" O-Lines. If Coach meditates with Eddie, and they mutually decide that it's 3-4 DE "Tuitt-style" with 4-3 service at DT, then I say come on down, big guy, and honor the pact, unless Eddie himself later wants to give the other role a try.




Re: 2014s: GRAHAMBOs two plus a hope and a prayer for Khairi Clark.... since he's supposedly looking.

 

[rtrn2glory]

also still have springmann for another 3 years.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Piggy-backing off OMM's post, it occurs to me that the staff has taken our least athletic DL and moved them to NT: (1) Nix; (2) Schwenke; (3) Springmann; (4) Stockton. Just like the less athletic OL tend to end up at OG, perhaps ND does the same thing on the DL.

If athleticism is the key factor in determining whether one plays at DE or DT, instead of the height/ weight profiles we all focus on, then our mysterious NT situation begins to make more sense. And that would certainly militate in favor of Vanderdoes at DE instead of NT.

 

[NDPhilly]

I just think there recruiting him for DE because they know he doesn't want to be a NT

 

[DCIrish]

I don't know why anyone would be concerned about finding a replacement for Nix at NT. This staff has shown that they know what they are doing.

 

[Grahambo]

Piggy-backing off OMM's post, it occurs to me that the staff has taken our least athletic DL and moved them to NT: (1) Nix; (2) Schwenke; (3) Springmann; (4) Stockton. Just like the less athletic OL tend to end up at OG, perhaps ND does the same thing on the DL.

If athleticism is the key factor in determining whether one plays at DE or DT, instead of the height/ weight profiles we all focus on, then our mysterious NT situation begins to make more sense. And that would certainly militate in favor of Vanderdoes at DE instead of NT.

And possibly Malik McDowell to NT despite him being 6'7? The beauty in all of this is the endless possibilities.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

And possibly Malik McDowell to NT despite him being 6'7? The beauty in all of this is the endless possibilities.

Springmann's 6'6''! In retrospect, it seems like such a silly thing to worry about. Sort of like wondering why we only recruit OTs out of high school.

"But who will play Offensive Guard!!1one"

 

[Grahambo]

Springmann's 6'6''! In retrospect, it seems like such a silly thing to worry about. Sort of like wondering why we only recruit OTs out of high school.

"But who will play Offensive Guard!!1one"

Heggie...duh

 

[cyrano]

I think that we will see a big run stuff like Springman or maybe even a massively beefed up Jarron Jones. I know both of them are a bit tall, but if they beef up enough they can be solid against the run. Also, long arms can be just as helpful playing inside as playing outside on the DL. A good example of this is Georgia who has had some tallish players who play at about 350 playing inside in the past few years.

Also, on 3rd down and long, we'll probably see Tuitt or Day or just about any of the DL line up at the NT spot. KLM really had some wonderful pass rushes from inside this year and I think many of our prospects would be able to do the same.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Will you guys believe me now that NG/DT isnt a position that ND needs lol All parts are interchangeable in NDs defense, its just they have had the luxury of Nix. Vanderdoes is a swing kid. He can move inside or outside. Its just a matter of what scheme ND is in. Think Tuitt/KAP/everyone but Nix. Having guys that fit anywhere on the dline is a hassle for a Ocoord. Its a great thing lol.

 

[peoriairish]

Will you guys believe me now that NG/DT isnt a position that ND needs lol All parts are interchangeable in NDs defense, its just they have had the luxury of Nix. Vanderdoes is a swing kid. He can move inside or outside. Its just a matter of what scheme ND is in. Think Tuitt/KAP/everyone but Nix. Having guys that fit anywhere on the dline is a hassle for a Ocoord. Its a great thing lol.

This is what you meant, right?

 

[Old Man Mike]

This is not a "lol" situation and it's a little insulting to hear that. It is not the case that you just throw anyone in there. Every position has specific duties which can be performed at higher or lower effectiveness by the player on the field.

Lou Nix is perfect for the NT position and others are not. We DEMONSTRABLY have no one else who can operate at that position at near his level. Ask Manti. Saying that there is no need "lol" to attempt to recruit someone of Nix's attributes because we can just sling anyone on our roster into any space on the D-line is a great fantasy if you are willing to take a step down in the impenetrability that Lou brings to many goalline and third and very short plays.

Can we make up some of the ground by having Tuitts or Vanderdoes surrounding a non-Lou? Yeh, but why not shoot for the best like Kelly seems to try anyway? "lol" indeed.

 

[STLDomer]

Will you guys believe me now that NG/DT isnt a position that ND needs lol All parts are interchangeable in NDs defense, its just they have had the luxury of Nix. Vanderdoes is a swing kid. He can move inside or outside. Its just a matter of what scheme ND is in. Think Tuitt/KAP/everyone but Nix. Having guys that fit anywhere on the dline is a hassle for a Ocoord. Its a great thing lol.

So after Nix leaves your cool with rotating oversized DEs around over having a real NG? Were gonna need at least 1 true NG lol

lol I can't even imagine playing a strong running team with 3 KLM or Tuitts instead of having a NG in the middle