arahop
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the kid's that do this this are barely eligible to go to college
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the kid's that do this this are barely eligible to go to college
irishtrain
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Those southern boys have really learned how to play the game. Pro football pure and simple and they're laughing all the way to the bank. In many ways I'm losing my taste for college football. And ESPN eats it up while they call these guys student athletes-who are you kidding!
IrishSteelhead
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Overheard from Saban's office or on field:
"I don't have a spot for you anymore. You have been under-performing. We'll tell the media you are hurt, and you can go to any juco of your choice. Good luck, whatever your name is......."
"I heard you were in class yesterday. How is that supposed to help you prepare for Florida? Get your priorities straight or I'll replace you with someone who does."
"Your dad died, and that's why you can't play in the Georgia Southern game? Unbelievable. We won't be winners until you understand Alabama Football comes first."
"Concussion? What are you, a doctor now? Get out there and fetch me a first down."
"Maze can't play anymore? This is the title game! Whatever, put him on a bus right now, and send him back to Birmingham. That will open up a spot for that kid from Hoover."
"Paper says you were arrested this weekend for armed robbery. You are damn lucky we have Vandy this week, because you won't be playing the first series son."
"I don't have a spot for you anymore. You have been under-performing. We'll tell the media you are hurt, and you can go to any juco of your choice. Good luck, whatever your name is......."
"I heard you were in class yesterday. How is that supposed to help you prepare for Florida? Get your priorities straight or I'll replace you with someone who does."
"Your dad died, and that's why you can't play in the Georgia Southern game? Unbelievable. We won't be winners until you understand Alabama Football comes first."
"Concussion? What are you, a doctor now? Get out there and fetch me a first down."
"Maze can't play anymore? This is the title game! Whatever, put him on a bus right now, and send him back to Birmingham. That will open up a spot for that kid from Hoover."
"Paper says you were arrested this weekend for armed robbery. You are damn lucky we have Vandy this week, because you won't be playing the first series son."
dublinirish
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Houston Nutt come back, all is forgiven! Remember the year he signed like 35 players and cut half of them after training camp? 
zbikowski88
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RT @cfosterlatimes: UCLA has 26 commits which would mean 94 scholarship players on the roster. 9 players (commits or current) must go.
Redbar
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Sorry this is so long, I wrote this as an article for another media site, but think it is appropriate here.
Let's start with what I think or at least hope we can all agree on. That being the constant stream of scandal in the world of college football is damaging to all the institutions of the NCAA, it is damaging to the kids that we purport to care about and it is damaging to the sport we love and ultimately to our nation as a whole . To talk about North Carolina, Ohio State, Oregon, LSU, Miami or some other program that has seized the spotlight this year, is to mistake the tip for the iceberg. Clearly there can be no denying that something is awry in college football. The question we all must ask is what can be done about it and ultimately how do we isolate the problem so that the integrity of the game is not compromised. Fortunately, I have some thoughts, and wouldn't you know it, the answers, as I see them all point to Grown Men actually being "Grown Ups" and teaching children, even very big talented children, how to be "Grown Ups"
First I absolutely reject the premise that there is not room for amateur athletics. I oppose the viewpoint of so many that the players should be paid. Contrary to some people's opinion the The NCAA is not a bunch of "pimps" as I have heard them referred to. My question is what makes people say this now? Were people saying this in the 1960's? How about the 1920's? Were the kids being taken advantage of in the late 19th century when some of the first teams started to play? Were these guys being exploited? I bet not. I dare say back then the kids felt pretty good about having the opportunity to go to some of these institutions and get a DEGREE instead of working in a factory or on a farm or whatever else was available to them. So what changed? How did these schools go from being ladders in society to the boot on the back of these poor kids.
Well clearly what has changed is now there is big money involved. My question is, does the introduction of big money change what had been good and true for so long? Should it be enough to change what was good and true? But be careful before you answer because what you say may say more about you and your values than it might say about the underlying truth of the question. Just because there is serious money involved at the collegiate level and also at the professional level NOW(in the past 40 years), does that mean the concept of amateur athletics and degrees for STUDENT-athletes; and money for professional athletes is all wrong? Well if it does then in my opinion we are saying the cart should pull the horse and it says more about the value we place on an education in society now. Have we become so "ends justify the means" that we think the "ends should dictate the means"? If so then I think we should stop whining about the Bernie Madoff's or Nevin Shapiro's, or Bank of America's, the Merrill Lynch's, the AIG's, the Enron's, the businesses gone to Mexico or China etc...etc...etc...We should be applauding them. The greed and the instant gratification in the political and financial world that we are trying to root out, is not only permeating our society it is being taught at these institutions that tell students, "Come here and school will take care of itself you focus on football," it is being engrained when adults look the other way while kids have eight cars in 3 or 4 years, it is being supported when the adults don't say, "Look you can have everything you want in life, I am here to help you learn how to get it, as are the other professors and coaches at this university, but for the hopefully 4 years that you are on this campus you must abide by the rules." What ever happened to apprenticeships? Nobody wants to start out in the mail room, every one thinks they should have the corner office, and have it now! It reminds me of the great movie, The Shawshank Redemption, nobody will crawl through a hundred yards of crap to come out smelling like a rose on the other side. Fortunately, for some of us we know that it is during the crawl where character is built, where we learn the most about life and ourselves. Too many of these kids are pursuing their athletic dreams to the exclusion of everything else and taking shortcuts and lagniappe and when it is all over they have nothing to really show for it besides a car, or some nice jewelry, and a cool story to tell there friends. This! This is where these kids are being taken advantage of. They are not being taken advantage of by the NCAA they are being taken advantage of by the schools that are hiring coaches that are only interested in what the kid can do for them and not INSISTING that the kid also take the only tangible things they can give back to the kid--the degree, the discipline, consequences, and some other life lessons. Any coach not trying to do this is derelict in their duty and I would guess, if I were a fly on the wall during their in house visit with the athletes parents, a fraud.
Many say that a coach can't watch the kids all the time and this is true. However, the coach IS the adult, the Grown Man, he IS being paid handsomely, he IS responsible. Brian Kelly the head football coach for the University of Notre Dame caught some flak from some Miami fans for some comments he made which of course were taken out of context, but still can't be denied. He said in part that, "It starts with recruiting the right kids." I am sorry and I am sure I will upset a lot of people here, but not every great football player belongs on a college campus. These coaches have to have the courage to tell those kids, "You are a great football player, keep training hard, get a membership at the gym and try out for the NFL in a couple of years, but you have not, either from an academic or maturation standpoint, put yourself in a position to go to college and represent me or this university. That will take individual courage and it will take a commitment across the coaching board to accomplish but it needs to be done. And...the consequences for not doing so should be severe. I understand kids will make mistakes and not everything goes according to plan, but when they go wrong the coach should have to explain why any reasonable person would agree that due diligence was observed. Which brings me to my beef with the NCAA and where I think they have let their game down.
The NCAA has failed to place the consequences for bad conduct where it belongs and they have failed to be a proper deterrent to the schools and coaches. I do not think a coach that has been proven to reject their responsibility to properly teach the minors in their care to follow the rules should be allowed to continue to be around minors. Why would you let a person of poor character around your kid. I don't think just because a guy really knows his x's and o's means he should be allowed to be influencing and shaping young impressionable kids. Not every guy that builds a great fire or really knows how to pitch a tent should be allowed around the campfire with the boy scout troop.
If all this seems a little much, then hey let's keep giving these coaches, kids, and administrators their golden parachutes so they can bail out with whatever booty they can plunder when the lights are turned on. While we continue to turn a blind eye and rationalize that everyone else is doing it or it's ok as long as we are winning. Isn't it time we asked more of ourselves and our children. We are talking about athletics and yes it is a game but we don't have to look far to see what unbridled greed, and a lack of rules and enforcement can do to any enterprise. We have to draw some lines and stand by them because these things don't stay contained, they have a tendency to leak out into other, larger, areas of our life. Maybe this is the perfect setting to take these issues on. I mean really isn't that the role of our universities, to educate and prepare our kids to be the future of our country, our economy, our values. If you don't like the stuff your hearing from the Grown Men in Washington or on Wall Street maybe it is time to start training a new and better Man. Maybe this is the right time and the perfect setting to allow sport to do what it has always done so well- motivate, inspire and teach us how to overcome adversity and meet challenges in life far away from the field or court. If we cannot do it here then we probably can't do it anywhere and then what are we left with?
Let's start with what I think or at least hope we can all agree on. That being the constant stream of scandal in the world of college football is damaging to all the institutions of the NCAA, it is damaging to the kids that we purport to care about and it is damaging to the sport we love and ultimately to our nation as a whole . To talk about North Carolina, Ohio State, Oregon, LSU, Miami or some other program that has seized the spotlight this year, is to mistake the tip for the iceberg. Clearly there can be no denying that something is awry in college football. The question we all must ask is what can be done about it and ultimately how do we isolate the problem so that the integrity of the game is not compromised. Fortunately, I have some thoughts, and wouldn't you know it, the answers, as I see them all point to Grown Men actually being "Grown Ups" and teaching children, even very big talented children, how to be "Grown Ups"
First I absolutely reject the premise that there is not room for amateur athletics. I oppose the viewpoint of so many that the players should be paid. Contrary to some people's opinion the The NCAA is not a bunch of "pimps" as I have heard them referred to. My question is what makes people say this now? Were people saying this in the 1960's? How about the 1920's? Were the kids being taken advantage of in the late 19th century when some of the first teams started to play? Were these guys being exploited? I bet not. I dare say back then the kids felt pretty good about having the opportunity to go to some of these institutions and get a DEGREE instead of working in a factory or on a farm or whatever else was available to them. So what changed? How did these schools go from being ladders in society to the boot on the back of these poor kids.
Well clearly what has changed is now there is big money involved. My question is, does the introduction of big money change what had been good and true for so long? Should it be enough to change what was good and true? But be careful before you answer because what you say may say more about you and your values than it might say about the underlying truth of the question. Just because there is serious money involved at the collegiate level and also at the professional level NOW(in the past 40 years), does that mean the concept of amateur athletics and degrees for STUDENT-athletes; and money for professional athletes is all wrong? Well if it does then in my opinion we are saying the cart should pull the horse and it says more about the value we place on an education in society now. Have we become so "ends justify the means" that we think the "ends should dictate the means"? If so then I think we should stop whining about the Bernie Madoff's or Nevin Shapiro's, or Bank of America's, the Merrill Lynch's, the AIG's, the Enron's, the businesses gone to Mexico or China etc...etc...etc...We should be applauding them. The greed and the instant gratification in the political and financial world that we are trying to root out, is not only permeating our society it is being taught at these institutions that tell students, "Come here and school will take care of itself you focus on football," it is being engrained when adults look the other way while kids have eight cars in 3 or 4 years, it is being supported when the adults don't say, "Look you can have everything you want in life, I am here to help you learn how to get it, as are the other professors and coaches at this university, but for the hopefully 4 years that you are on this campus you must abide by the rules." What ever happened to apprenticeships? Nobody wants to start out in the mail room, every one thinks they should have the corner office, and have it now! It reminds me of the great movie, The Shawshank Redemption, nobody will crawl through a hundred yards of crap to come out smelling like a rose on the other side. Fortunately, for some of us we know that it is during the crawl where character is built, where we learn the most about life and ourselves. Too many of these kids are pursuing their athletic dreams to the exclusion of everything else and taking shortcuts and lagniappe and when it is all over they have nothing to really show for it besides a car, or some nice jewelry, and a cool story to tell there friends. This! This is where these kids are being taken advantage of. They are not being taken advantage of by the NCAA they are being taken advantage of by the schools that are hiring coaches that are only interested in what the kid can do for them and not INSISTING that the kid also take the only tangible things they can give back to the kid--the degree, the discipline, consequences, and some other life lessons. Any coach not trying to do this is derelict in their duty and I would guess, if I were a fly on the wall during their in house visit with the athletes parents, a fraud.
Many say that a coach can't watch the kids all the time and this is true. However, the coach IS the adult, the Grown Man, he IS being paid handsomely, he IS responsible. Brian Kelly the head football coach for the University of Notre Dame caught some flak from some Miami fans for some comments he made which of course were taken out of context, but still can't be denied. He said in part that, "It starts with recruiting the right kids." I am sorry and I am sure I will upset a lot of people here, but not every great football player belongs on a college campus. These coaches have to have the courage to tell those kids, "You are a great football player, keep training hard, get a membership at the gym and try out for the NFL in a couple of years, but you have not, either from an academic or maturation standpoint, put yourself in a position to go to college and represent me or this university. That will take individual courage and it will take a commitment across the coaching board to accomplish but it needs to be done. And...the consequences for not doing so should be severe. I understand kids will make mistakes and not everything goes according to plan, but when they go wrong the coach should have to explain why any reasonable person would agree that due diligence was observed. Which brings me to my beef with the NCAA and where I think they have let their game down.
The NCAA has failed to place the consequences for bad conduct where it belongs and they have failed to be a proper deterrent to the schools and coaches. I do not think a coach that has been proven to reject their responsibility to properly teach the minors in their care to follow the rules should be allowed to continue to be around minors. Why would you let a person of poor character around your kid. I don't think just because a guy really knows his x's and o's means he should be allowed to be influencing and shaping young impressionable kids. Not every guy that builds a great fire or really knows how to pitch a tent should be allowed around the campfire with the boy scout troop.
If all this seems a little much, then hey let's keep giving these coaches, kids, and administrators their golden parachutes so they can bail out with whatever booty they can plunder when the lights are turned on. While we continue to turn a blind eye and rationalize that everyone else is doing it or it's ok as long as we are winning. Isn't it time we asked more of ourselves and our children. We are talking about athletics and yes it is a game but we don't have to look far to see what unbridled greed, and a lack of rules and enforcement can do to any enterprise. We have to draw some lines and stand by them because these things don't stay contained, they have a tendency to leak out into other, larger, areas of our life. Maybe this is the perfect setting to take these issues on. I mean really isn't that the role of our universities, to educate and prepare our kids to be the future of our country, our economy, our values. If you don't like the stuff your hearing from the Grown Men in Washington or on Wall Street maybe it is time to start training a new and better Man. Maybe this is the right time and the perfect setting to allow sport to do what it has always done so well- motivate, inspire and teach us how to overcome adversity and meet challenges in life far away from the field or court. If we cannot do it here then we probably can't do it anywhere and then what are we left with?
M
Me2SouthBend
Guest
I think this thread is worth revisiting in light of the Vanderdoes recruitment. The link in the OP shows the scope and depth of the problem particularly in the $EC. I'm sure this isn't any better with the most recent classes. The fact that the NCAA does nothing about this is incomprehensible.
ALLGATOR
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what would you like the NCAAto do?
Rack Em
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Bowl bans, scholarship bans, or death penalty for repeat offenders of low GSR rates or oversigning.
Pretty simple. If you cheat or don't give your student athletes an education, you don't get to play "footbaaaww"
NDhoosier
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pretty simple, once the school reaches the 25 limit (after using the EE exceptions), the NCAA tells the school they can no longer accept additional recruits or there will be punishments.
Signing 26 recruits one year and 31 recruits the next is a violation of NCAA rules. What happens when a team breaks the rules? They get punished. This is not a simple "secondary violation" either.
Majority of the schools in the SEC are cheaters because majority break this rule on a yearly basis.
ALLGATOR
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so follow the the rules the SEC has in place right now that everybody is abiding by?
NDinFL
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irishog77
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There's obviously something you want to say and you obviously have an opinion. Perhaps you should quit being a pussy and just come out and say it. Merely posting "questions" on a thread doesn't make you seem like you're open to a debate nor a good-guy poster. It makes you seem fake, disingenuous, and even like you're trying to instigate something.
This is a big reason many on this board have the opinion of you they do...not your name. Hell, somebody even brought this up to you a day or two ago...yet here you go again.
25 players a year for four years is 100 players. Not okay.
I don't know if you are a Gator grad, but I am.
Don't be an SEC apologist. What Saban and Miles do is deplorable.
Celebrate the fact that Florida doesn't oversign and leave it at that.
For further information: Oversigning.com
ALLGATOR
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Interesting post coming from you. That person was trolling. I just really want to know to be honest. NDhoosier answer to the question was actually what is done right now, so obviously that's not the answer if people continue to believe there is a problem.
Are people upset because they thinks what is going on has a negative impact on kids or are they upset because they think its an unfair competitive advantage. I dont care about competitive advantages I do however care about the student athlete.
Most people that get upset over oversigning don't understand what is actually going on.
ALLGATOR
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I am not being an sec apologist its just more complicated than that.
Our schools last 3 classes have been 27 19 23 and this years class will be what 25 plus you do the math.
Now I think you would agree Florida is not doing anything suspect so its not the number that is the problem.
Fbolt
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wow-seems like these kids are being screwed by the big business of CFB. I knew this, but reading more info is still eye-opening. what I have a hard time believing is that no student/parent has taken a school to the mat for their actions-seems ripe IMO.
M
Me2SouthBend
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I have a problem with both the unfair competitive advantage and the way they screw the kids. This isn't pro football (at least not outside the $EC where the kids aren't getting paid). These A$$hat coaches prove year after year they don't give 2 $hits about getting these kids an education. If they don't plan on keeping them for 4 years and providing the necessary educational support, they shouldn't bring them in. 4 year scholarships would be one answer and a max of 85 in 4 years which is just what the NCAA intended. If ND treated recruiting the same way these idiots did, we wouldn't be having the Who's Next thread discussions. The answer would be All of Them! There would be no scholarship numbers crunch, just bring them all in and cut loose someone that's already here. How good would ND be if they had done what $aban had done and essentially brought in an entire extra class in the rolling 4 years. 110 players. Are you F*cking serious? And you defend it. You can GTFO in my humble opinion.
Irishog is right. Your questions come of as snide and you most certainly are an apologist for that $ewer pit you call a conference. Why don't you in your infinite wisdom propose an answer to the problem and bring it to your beloved conference and explain that what they are doing is reprehensible.
IrishSteelhead
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As Ron White would ironically say, "You can't fix stupid." This will continue as long as there are kids naieve enough to allow this practice to continue, and we all know there will be no shortage of that anytime soon.
Who are we to judge though? Saban really does love his players like sons, well at least the ones he doesn't cut and forget about minutes later.
Who are we to judge though? Saban really does love his players like sons, well at least the ones he doesn't cut and forget about minutes later.
Last edited:
B
Bogtrotter07
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Since when did doing the right thing become so hard to do?
When did the solution become so complicated?
When did the solution become so complicated?
ickythump1225
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Exactly these kids are just a product to Saban and the others. He's setting some of these kids, these "student"-athletes up for failure for the rest of their life. Notre Dame takes kids in and sets them up for the rest of their life. Even if they can't make it in the NFL their ND degree will help them forever. Notre Dame is making the future leaders of the world, Alabama is making the future medium security inmates of the world.
ALLGATOR
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I cant think of an SEC school that doesn't give 4 year scholarships now. At the height of this "oversigning" they were not bringing in all these kids. Schools like Ole miss Miss st and Alabama were signing kids that were never going to get into Alabama. Both the coaches and kids knew they were going to JUCO or prep school.
ND 23 24 18 and about to sign a class of 25. ND would not like your rule.
P
PraetorianND
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You're not including transfers, medicals, and dropouts. Lynch, Shepard, etc.
woolybug25
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Read the last three pages of suggestions ya lazy bastard...
The difference in numbers is due to very different things though.
Florida has had a ton of transfers. Legitimate transfers.
Saban is practically running guys out of town, forcing them to transfer, medical scholarships when they aren't actually injured. These guys do anything to free up scholarship space.
M
Me2SouthBend
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According to Scout
2010 had a class of 23, 1 transferred out and 1 had medical hardship.
2011 had a class of 23 1 of whom passed away, and 2 transferred out.
2012 had a whopping class of 17, 1 of which never satisfied the core or baseline classroom requirements to start playing ball.
This year they are sitting on 22 commits, 1 of which is Mattingly who is considered a soft verbal.
If you go back and look check the link in the first post, you can scroll way down until you find ND sitting under the 85 man limit.
Are you saying that the $EC oversigning classes is a thing of the past? Alabama currently has 19 verbals. 2012 they signed 26 in 2011 they signed 22 and in 2010 they signed 29. That is 96. Georgia currently has 30 verbals for this class. Yes, that's a 3-0. In 2012 they signed 19. In 2011 they signed 26. In 2010 they signed 19. That's a running total of 94. Are they done? These 2 teams are somewhat pertinent to the discussion because there is this matter of a NCG that ND is involved in on Jan 7th. I don't know how many of these players have either transferred of their own volition, or had a true medical hardship but I think the evidence is quite clear. Bottom line, many members of the $EC will go to great lengths to cheat. Any argument to the contrary is in my opinion (and likely many on this board and across the country) absurd.
ALLGATOR
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Georgia has like 72 scholarship football players right now. You assume Georgia is cheating when they are not. And they are not done they will probably sign 4 more. If you do the same thing for the Georgia class that you did for the ND class you will see whats going.
M
Me2SouthBend
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Oversigning.com@TheMarchTo85
aTm had classes of 26 in 2009, 22, 22, 19, and now 34 and looking to add. The burning question is where is the room?
Retweeted by Keith Arnold
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I'm sure we're all missing something that the coaches in the $EC know.
aTm had classes of 26 in 2009, 22, 22, 19, and now 34 and looking to add. The burning question is where is the room?
Retweeted by Keith Arnold
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I'm sure we're all missing something that the coaches in the $EC know.
M
Me2SouthBend
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Good thing this doesn't occur anymore. Oh wait...
Darius Philon Signs with Arkabama « Oversigning.com
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Darius Philon Signs with Arkabama « Oversigning.com
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