Manti Te'o for Heisman

[Bogtrotter07]

Hey guys I am a big A&M fan and therefore a huge JFF supporter for heisman and I just came over here to try to gain some insight from your perspective on why you believe that Manti should win. I come in peace and admittedly I haven't gotten to watch as many ND games as I would have liked..

After reading some of the comments here on this thread and seeing the video ND put out it seems that a major theme is that his presence transcends stats and has led this team back to prominence. As an outside observer though I am not even sure Teo is the best defensive player on your team. Not by a large margin at least. And that's nothing against him but just goes to show how good your over defense is.

Statistically it has been a good season for him but its nothing that doesn't happen every year. Heck JF has more TD's than Teo has tackles over the past two games. So it must be something more to the story but I find it a little deflating to hear that what I am missing is an inspirational story and good grades. Not that those aren't awesome and it makes me respect the heck out of him but I find it a little patronizing to give him an award because of something other than merit.

You can bring up Johnny's arrest and compare who is more holy but it would be really sad to have this turn into an American Idol situation where no one cares who sings the best but rather who's story can they market. (The same way Johnny has received more fame because of his nickname). I am just saying emotional leader is great but inspiration can't be measured. Sideline jumping jacks and tribal tattoos, and cool nicknames shouldn't be a factor on who the most outstanding player in the country is.

It's probably just one of those things where you just have to watch the games. Johnny's heisman bid is easy to understand without actually watching the games because of his insane stats and highlight reels. Teo just gets a pass thrown right to him and then shows four tackles in the box score with highlights of him yelling and doing jumping jacks. Not really fair. That's just an outsiders opinion though and a biased one. Take it for what it's worth.

I appreciate you, your posts and your team. I just think your candidate is not the best one because he has not exemplified any of these qualities. MOST IMPORTANTLY, I do not THINK THAT YOU OR ANY OTHER GIVEN A&M FAN IS ONE OF THE IDIOTS TO WHICH I REFER. No, they are people from far across the USA that have never seen either player play.

I do admittedly have a bit of a prejudice against Texas. Living in Ohio, I have been all over the world and run into Chauvinistic Texas football fans. In fact, I remember being in Mexico, in a bar on the Rivera Maya, and doing everything I could to get away from a (drunken) Texas football fan who slurred on for about an hour about how great Texas football was and how Ohio football sucked. I made the mistake of telling him where I was from before he started on football, and I would have gut punched him but I am sure he would have puked all over everybody.

You however are a scholar and a gentleman. I hope I have not offended you.

Oh yeah and if you would have actually watched the highlights, you would have seen how Manti worked the quarterback, (who was passing to either of the two fastest and bestest wide outs in the country).

 

[PraetorianND]

Sorry that sounds bad. I wasn't trying to minimize what Teo means I was just trying to say its hard to capture what he truly means in a box score or in a highlight video. If you just look at a box score and see over the past two games that he has 10 tackles and an int and his highlight videos are him running around and yelling.

You mean leading the #1 defense in the country that made 8 goal line stands in a row against one of the best passing teams in the country and our most bitter rival in their house to go undefeated and earn a bid to the national title game after forgoing a probable 1st round draft pick to come back and finish his degree and take care of unfinished business? Ya I totally agree with you.

 

[Bubba]

Seems strange to me that Klein fell out of the race with a KSU loss, Barner fell out with an Oregon loss but Johnny Football is still in it with a 2 loss TA&M team... I realize they beat Bama but it shouldn't be enough.

And integrity does matter. I can guarantee you that if Te'o had been arrested over the summer his name wouldn't even be brought up in this conversation. Manziel gets a pass on his arrest because he was a NOBODY when it happened. He's a great football player now and he will have a chance to shine for a few more years. But this shouldn't be his year.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sorry that sounds bad. I wasn't trying to minimize what Teo means I was just trying to say its hard to capture what he truly means in a box score or in a highlight video. If you just look at a box score and see over the past two games that he has 10 tackles and an int and his highlight videos are him running around and yelling.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, but we can't control what highlights the talking heads decide to show. They could show any of his 7 picks, they could show any of his sacks or tackles for losses. They could show the many red zone stops that he's been a part of this year (#1 red zone defense in football).

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Seems strange to me that Klein fell out of the race with a KSU loss, Barner fell out with an Oregon loss but Johnny Football is still in it with a 2 loss TA&M team... I realize they beat Bama but it shouldn't be enough.

And integrity does matter. I can guarantee you that if Te'o had been arrested over the summer his name wouldn't even be brought up in this conversation. Manziel gets a pass on his arrest because he was a NOBODY when it happened. He's a great football player now and he will have a chance to shine for a few more years. But this shouldn't be his year.

See the part with the add for stupid people . . .

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Welcome, Ag. Here's the case for Te'o v. Manziel, briefly:

• Stats - There's no basis to compare Te'o v. Manziel. When you're a dominant defensive player, opposing teams scheme around you. You don't start every snap with the ball in your hand like a QB does. And when you play on a great defense (you know, the sort that wins championships), there aren't many opportunities to put up big numbers. But if you're looking for impressive stats, Te'o's is 2nd nationally with 7 INTs as a linebacker. No LB has intercepted more passes this millennium. And he just finished his 3rd consecutive season of 100+ tackles.
  
• Consistency - Te'o has never laid an egg under the spotlight. Manziel has 2 losses, and in one of those (LSU), he was terrible. No QB has ever won the Heisman with a game as bad as LSU's on his resume.
  
• Character - You sort of dismissed it as something that can't be quantified, but the description of the award is pretty clear: "The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." I don't think Manziel's pre-season arrest should disqualify him outright, but it's certainly a strike against him when compared to someone like Te'o.
  
• Body of Work - Te'o is a senior who has a long and distinguished career on the field. As I mentioned previously, he's one of only three ND players to produce three consecutive seasons of 100+ tackles. Again, I don't think being a freshman should disqualify anyone from winning, but there's a reason no one has ever won it before in his first year.
  
• Story - Te'o is not only the best player on the #1 team with the top ranked scoring defense, he's also the emotional and spiritual leader of an Irish team that's finally returning to glory after 20 years in the wilderness. Playing at such a high level after having overcome personal tragedy, and doing it with integrity and academic excellence, is super rare in this cesspool of a sport. He's everything that's right with CFB; and perhaps most importantly, he won't have to give it back in ~5 years due to an NCAA investigation.

Part of the problem here is that certain positions in football are more important than others. A MLB simply cannot impact the game as well as a QB can. So if that's the top criterion for Heisman selection, let's be honest about this and describe it as an award for offensive skill players exclusively. But if we're looking to recognize the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity," then it's got to be Te'o, or the award is farcical.

I'd personally like to see the Heisman bifurcated into an offensive and defensive award, but that ain't happening this year.

 

[JughedJones]

Welcome, Ag. Here's the case for Te'o v. Manziel, briefly:

• Stats - There's no basis to compare Te'o v. Manziel. When you're a dominant defensive player, opposing teams scheme around you. You don't start every snap with the ball in your hand like a QB does. And when you play on a great defense (you know, the sort that wins championships), there aren't many opportunities to put up big numbers. But if you're looking for impressive stats, Te'o's 7 INTs are 2nd nationally, as a linebacker. No LB has intercepted more passes this millennium. And he just finished his 3rd consecutive season of 100+ tackles.
  
• Consistency - Te'o has never laid an egg under the spotlight. Manziel has 2 losses, and in one of those (LSU), he was terrible. No QB has ever won the Heisman with a game as bad as LSU's on his resume.
  
• Character - You sort of dismissed it as something that can't be quantified, but the description of the award is pretty clear: "The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." I don't think Manziel's pre-season arrest should disqualify him outright, but it's certainly a strike against him when compared to someone like Te'o.
  
• Body of Work - Te'o is a senior who has a long and distinguished career on the field. As I mentioned previously, he's one of only three ND players to produce three consecutive seasons of 100+ tackles. Again, I don't think being a freshman should disqualify anyone from winning, but there's a reason no one has ever won it before in his first year.
  
• Story - Te'o is not only the best player on the #1 team with the top ranked scoring defense, he's also the emotional and spiritual leader of an Irish team that's finally returning to glory after 20 years in the wilderness. Playing at such a high level after having overcome personal tragedy, and doing it with integrity and academic excellence, is super rare in this cesspool of a sport. He's everything that's right with CFB; and perhaps most importantly, he won't have to give it back in ~5 years due to an NCAA investigation.

Part of the problem here is that certain positions in football are more important than others. A MLB simply cannot impact the game as well as a QB can. So if that's the top criterion for Heisman selection, let's be honest about this and describe it as an award for offensive skill players exclusively. But if we're looking to recognize the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity," then it's got to be Te'o, or the award is farcical.

I'd personally like to see the Heisman bifurcated into an offensive and defensive award, but that ain't happening this year.

Well... that was certainly a lot better than my ****** comments!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

. . . bifurcated . . .

Oh, here is a good word for a new drinking game.

And JJ, your comments were not full up of six stars.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Welcome, Ag. Here's the case for Te'o v. Manziel, briefly:

• Stats - There's no basis to compare Te'o v. Manziel. When you're a dominant defensive player, opposing teams scheme around you. You don't start every snap with the ball in your hand like a QB does. And when you play on a great defense (you know, the sort that wins championships), there aren't many opportunities to put up big numbers. But if you're looking for impressive stats, Te'o's 7 INTs are 2nd nationally, as a linebacker. No LB has intercepted more passes this millennium. And he just finished his 3rd consecutive season of 100+ tackles.
  
• Consistency - Te'o has never laid an egg under the spotlight. Manziel has 2 losses, and in one of those (LSU), he was terrible. No QB has ever won the Heisman with a game as bad as LSU's on his resume.
  
• Character - You sort of dismissed it as something that can't be quantified, but the description of the award is pretty clear: "The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." I don't think Manziel's pre-season arrest should disqualify him outright, but it's certainly a strike against him when compared to someone like Te'o.
  
• Body of Work - Te'o is a senior who has a long and distinguished career on the field. As I mentioned previously, he's one of only three ND players to produce three consecutive seasons of 100+ tackles. Again, I don't think being a freshman should disqualify anyone from winning, but there's a reason no one has ever won it before in his first year.
  
• Story - Te'o is not only the best player on the #1 team with the top ranked scoring defense, he's also the emotional and spiritual leader of an Irish team that's finally returning to glory after 20 years in the wilderness. Playing at such a high level after having overcome personal tragedy, and doing it with integrity and academic excellence, is super rare in this cesspool of a sport. He's everything that's right with CFB; and perhaps most importantly, he won't have to give it back in ~5 years due to an NCAA investigation.

Part of the problem here is that certain positions in football are more important than others. A MLB simply cannot impact the game as well as a QB can. So if that's the top criterion for Heisman selection, let's be honest about this and describe it as an award for offensive skill players exclusively. But if we're looking to recognize the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity," then it's got to be Te'o, or the award is farcical.

I'd personally like to see the Heisman bifurcated into an offensive and defensive award, but that ain't happening this year.

Well said.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Hey guys I am a big A&M fan and therefore a huge JFF supporter for heisman and I just came over here to try to gain some insight from your perspective on why you believe that Manti should win. I come in peace and admittedly I haven't gotten to watch as many ND games as I would have liked..

After reading some of the comments here on this thread and seeing the video ND put out it seems that a major theme is that his presence transcends stats and has led this team back to prominence. As an outside observer though I am not even sure Teo is the best defensive player on your team. Not by a large margin at least. And that's nothing against him but just goes to show how good your over defense is.

Statistically it has been a good season for him but its nothing that doesn't happen every year. Heck JF has more TD's than Teo has tackles over the past two games. So it must be something more to the story but I find it a little deflating to hear that what I am missing is an inspirational story and good grades. Not that those aren't awesome and it makes me respect the heck out of him but I find it a little patronizing to give him an award because of something other than merit.

You can bring up Johnny's arrest and compare who is more holy but it would be really sad to have this turn into an American Idol situation where no one cares who sings the best but rather who's story can they market. (The same way Johnny has received more fame because of his nickname). I am just saying emotional leader is great but inspiration can't be measured. Sideline jumping jacks and tribal tattoos, and cool nicknames shouldn't be a factor on who the most outstanding player in the country is.

It's probably just one of those things where you just have to watch the games. Johnny's heisman bid is easy to understand without actually watching the games because of his insane stats and highlight reels. Teo just gets a pass thrown right to him and then shows four tackles in the box score with highlights of him yelling and doing jumping jacks. Not really fair. That's just an outsiders opinion though and a biased one. Take it for what it's worth.

He also has more interceptions that Te'o does over the same period. Equally arbitrary.

Te'o is the best player on the #1 team in the country. His picks have come at crucial times in big wins.

The reason defenders don't usually win the Heisman, and the problem you're making hay on with your references to Manziel's "insane stats" and Te'o's "jumping jacks and tribal tattoos" is that defensive performance is almost entirely a qualitative measure. I can't point you to a stat that "proves" Te'o deserves the award because there is no such defensive stat. Offensive success is measured in terms of touchdowns and turnovers; both of which vary wildly with quality. At best a defender can rely on sacks and interceptions to make his quantitative bones, but there's far less variation between the competent and the great in both categories.

I can tell you that Manti's play has been crucial in pretty much every major win we've had this year. I can tell you that he hasn't had a game where he let us down in a pivotal situation, unlike Manziel's no-show against Florida (sorry, you don't get a special dispensation for your first collegiate start when we're talking about the Heisman) or his swoon against LSU. A&M wins both of those games if he plays like a Heisman candidate should. Look, Manziel's the reason A&M is 10-2 this year. But he's the reason for both elements of that figure: the 10 and the two. The same is true for Manti and Notre Dame. And isn't that what we're really supposed to be judging these guys on in this context?

Anyhow, I only know of one way for you to truly understand why we think Manti is the most deserving candidates. It's time-consuming; most voters aren't even going to do it. Watch the tape.

 

[Irish#1]

Sorry that sounds bad. I wasn't trying to minimize what Teo means I was just trying to say its hard to capture what he truly means in a box score or in a highlight video. If you just look at a box score and see over the past two games that he has 10 tackles and an int and his highlight videos are him running around and yelling.

I won't hammer you because you admitted you haven't seen Teo play much, but I would then ask,"Why did you even post this?" Teo baited the int from Wittek. Go back and watch the play where he drops deeper than normal when the snap counts begins. Did you see him in the goal line stand against Stanford? Go back one or two pages read what the Heisman is supposed to be awarded for. Go back and watch his performance just a few days after learning both his grandmother and girlfriend died within hours of each other. He elevates the play of others. He is the leader of a football team that hasn't lost a game. JF's team lost two games. In reality, this vote shouldn't be close, but because of todays media saturation and the hot flavor of the week, JF is in the conversation. I still believe voters will think this thru before sending in their votes and Manti will win.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Logic a SEC killer.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Welcome, Ag. Here's the case for Te'o v. Manziel, briefly:

• Stats - There's no basis to compare Te'o v. Manziel. When you're a dominant defensive player, opposing teams scheme around you. You don't start every snap with the ball in your hand like a QB does. And when you play on a great defense (you know, the sort that wins championships), there aren't many opportunities to put up big numbers. But if you're looking for impressive stats, Te'o's is 2nd nationally with 7 INTs as a linebacker. No LB has intercepted more passes this millennium. And he just finished his 3rd consecutive season of 100+ tackles.
  
• Consistency - Te'o has never laid an egg under the spotlight. Manziel has 2 losses, and in one of those (LSU), he was terrible. No QB has ever won the Heisman with a game as bad as LSU's on his resume.
  
• Character - You sort of dismissed it as something that can't be quantified, but the description of the award is pretty clear: "The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity." I don't think Manziel's pre-season arrest should disqualify him outright, but it's certainly a strike against him when compared to someone like Te'o.
  
• Body of Work - Te'o is a senior who has a long and distinguished career on the field. As I mentioned previously, he's one of only three ND players to produce three consecutive seasons of 100+ tackles. Again, I don't think being a freshman should disqualify anyone from winning, but there's a reason no one has ever won it before in his first year.
  
• Story - Te'o is not only the best player on the #1 team with the top ranked scoring defense, he's also the emotional and spiritual leader of an Irish team that's finally returning to glory after 20 years in the wilderness. Playing at such a high level after having overcome personal tragedy, and doing it with integrity and academic excellence, is super rare in this cesspool of a sport. He's everything that's right with CFB; and perhaps most importantly, he won't have to give it back in ~5 years due to an NCAA investigation.

Part of the problem here is that certain positions in football are more important than others. A MLB simply cannot impact the game as well as a QB can. So if that's the top criterion for Heisman selection, let's be honest about this and describe it as an award for offensive skill players exclusively. But if we're looking to recognize the most "outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity," then it's got to be Te'o, or the award is farcical.

I'd personally like to see the Heisman bifurcated into an offensive and defensive award, but that ain't happening this year.

I'd rep this big time, but apparently I need to spread it around. Said it better than I did while I was typing my response.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I'd rep this big time, but apparently I need to spread it around. Said it better than I did while I was typing my response.

I sent you 35k so you could go to vBucks plaza and buy yourself unlimited reps; now go out and make the world a better place!

 

[Ag11]

Thanks for the thought out replies and the welcome. I am currently on a phone or I would try to do better to address more of the points brought up.

First off Klien lost to 1-5 Baylor and threw 3ints to the worst defense in the country. Literally. JFF lost by an average of 4 points to the number 3 team and number 6 team in the country. If we had a kicker that made half of his kicks and all of his xps in those games we would be undefeated. Some times kicks just don't go your way as ND should be all to familiar. Likewise with the Stanford game with you guys a couple of inches and a judgement call changes the entire season. Johnny had a TD called down at the one that was a same judgement call that ended up losing us the Florida game (albeit not in the final seconds). Your undeafeat ex season and our 10-2 season are not as far off as you might think but I will give it to you wins are wins and no excuse changes that.

And as far as Johnny "laying an egg" how would you really know if Teo did? The flip side to not having stats determine your value is you could have a really crappy game and have it hidden. Is the only way to judge how he did based solely on the win or loss? It would be unfortunate to completely discount Manti this year if Pitt could kick a 30 yard FG. QBs are praised and scrutinized way more than defensive players. For instance the LSU game one of Johnny's int was a las that hit a reciever in stride near the redzone that bounced off his side and straight to a defender and cost us the game. Another was essientially a desperation heave/punt where if the defender was smart would have batted it down.

There can be arguments to justify and spin whatever though. Teo's interception numbers for a LB are dang impressive and it bothers me when people reference his 1.5 sacks like that is something to scoff at considering that's not what he does. Have to take one with the other. And I get that teams naturally double team and move away from a stud defender. Corners wear low targets against like a badge of honor. I can see that argument as a valid point.

I think it just comes down to not watching or caring about ND football(and admittedly rooting against just to benefit A&M and Johnny). I completely recognize the off the field leadership and character and have nothing but respect and admiration for the young man. I just haven't got to see him play as much and my bias has probably shielded me from being able to see how remarkable his season has been

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Thanks for the thought out replies and the welcome. I am currently on a phone or I would try to do better to address more of the points brought up.

First off Klien lost to 1-5 Baylor and threw 3ints to the worst defense in the country. Literally. JFF lost by an average of 4 points to the number 3 team and number 6 team in the country. If we had a kicker that made half of his kicks and all of his xps in those games we would be undefeated. Some times kicks just don't go your way as ND should be all to familiar. Likewise with the Stanford game with you guys a couple of inches and a judgement call changes the entire season. Johnny had a TD called down at the one that was a same judgement call that ended up losing us the Florida game (albeit not in the final seconds). Your undeafeat ex season and our 10-2 season are not as far off as you might think but I will give it to you wins are wins and no excuse changes that.

And as far as Johnny "laying an egg" how would you really know if Teo did? The flip side to not having stats determine your value is you could have a really crappy game and have it hidden. Is the only way to judge how he did based solely on the win or loss? It would be unfortunate to completely discount Manti this year if Pitt could kick a 30 yard FG. QBs are praised and scrutinized way more than defensive players. For instance the LSU game one of Johnny's int was a las that hit a reciever in stride near the redzone that bounced off his side and straight to a defender and cost us the game. Another was essientially a desperation heave/punt where if the defender was smart would have batted it down.

There can be arguments to justify and spin whatever though. Teo's interception numbers for a LB are dang impressive and it bothers me when people reference his 1.5 sacks like that is something to scoff at considering that's not what he does. Have to take one with the other. And I get that teams naturally double team and move away from a stud defender. Corners wear low targets against like a badge of honor. I can see that argument as a valid point.

I think it just comes down to not watching or caring about ND football(and admittedly rooting against just to benefit A&M and Johnny). I completely recognize the off the field leadership and character and have nothing but respect and admiration for the young man. I just haven't got to see him play as much and my bias has probably shielded me from being able to see how remarkable his season has been

Yes they are.


You gave your best shot against the best.

Everybody takes their best shot against us.

TA&M played nowhere near the overall schedule of ND. And watch how some of ND's foes do through the bowl season.

 

[JughedJones]

And as far as Johnny "laying an egg" how would you really know if Teo did?

I think it just comes down to not watching or caring about ND football

Well... I think you answered your own question there.

Likewise with the Stanford game with you guys a couple of inches and a judgement call changes the entire season.

People who don't watch ND football don't seem to realize that 'judgment call,' if it would have gone the other way, would have merely tied the game up.

. Literally. JFF lost by an average of 4 points to the number 3 team and number 6 team in the country. If we had a kicker that made half of his kicks and all of his xps in those games we would be undefeated.

Or he could have thrown for more than zero touchdowns in either of your losses, or not thrown 3 INTs against LSU.

 

[PraetorianND]

Thanks for the thought out replies and the welcome. I am currently on a phone or I would try to do better to address more of the points brought up.

First off Klien lost to 1-5 Baylor and threw 3ints to the worst defense in the country. Literally. JFF lost by an average of 4 points to the number 3 team and number 6 team in the country. If we had a kicker that made half of his kicks and all of his xps in those games we would be undefeated. Some times kicks just don't go your way as ND should be all to familiar. Likewise with the Stanford game with you guys a couple of inches and a judgement call changes the entire season. Johnny had a TD called down at the one that was a same judgement call that ended up losing us the Florida game (albeit not in the final seconds). Your undeafeat ex season and our 10-2 season are not as far off as you might think but I will give it to you wins are wins and no excuse changes that.

And as far as Johnny "laying an egg" how would you really know if Teo did? The flip side to not having stats determine your value is you could have a really crappy game and have it hidden. Is the only way to judge how he did based solely on the win or loss? It would be unfortunate to completely discount Manti this year if Pitt could kick a 30 yard FG. QBs are praised and scrutinized way more than defensive players. For instance the LSU game one of Johnny's int was a las that hit a reciever in stride near the redzone that bounced off his side and straight to a defender and cost us the game. Another was essientially a desperation heave/punt where if the defender was smart would have batted it down.

There can be arguments to justify and spin whatever though. Teo's interception numbers for a LB are dang impressive and it bothers me when people reference his 1.5 sacks like that is something to scoff at considering that's not what he does. Have to take one with the other. And I get that teams naturally double team and move away from a stud defender. Corners wear low targets against like a badge of honor. I can see that argument as a valid point.

I think it just comes down to not watching or caring about ND football(and admittedly rooting against just to benefit A&M and Johnny). I completely recognize the off the field leadership and character and have nothing but respect and admiration for the young man. I just haven't got to see him play as much and my bias has probably shielded me from being able to see how remarkable his season has been

If you watched you would be as adamant as we are that he's the best player in the country I'm sure. The guy is truly remarkable. He's always in position, I think I've seen him miss one tackle all season. His leadership is unquestioned and VERY obvious when you watch the games.

Watch a few of his press conferences and you'll see what people are talking about when they mention character (they will literally make you cry). He is selfless, passionate, smart, and humble. He's everything that college football players should be and are not. He means far more to people than what he gives them on the field. I don't think you can say that about Johnny "Football" (appropriate nickname now that I think about it).

Manti who came to ND only as an act of faith when he had been a USC fan his entire life represents what we all wish we could be. On more than one occasion I've thought to myself I wish I was half the man he is. I've also thought, if I can raise my son to be anywhere near the man Manti T'eo is I've succeeded as a parent. Can you say any of those things about Johnny? I don't want to take away from his season because he's had a great one. But I don't want to give the trophy to another Reggie or Cam. It's about time someone who transcends the game wins the award.

June 29th....
Texas A&M Aggies freshman QB Johnny Manziel arrested - ESPN

COLLEGE STATION, Texas -- Texas A&M freshman quarterback Johnny Manziel was arrested and jailed early Friday after he was involved in a fight and police said he produced a fake ID.

College Station police spokeswoman Rhonda Seaton says Manziel, 19, was charged with disorderly conduct, failure to identity and possessing a false identification card, all misdemeanors. He was jailed overnight and released Friday afternoon, Seaton said.

Manziel, a prep standout at Kerrville Tivy High School, redshirted last season. He was expected to compete for the starting job with sophomore Jameill Showers in the fall.

"I have been made aware of the situation with Johnny Manziel," incoming coach Kevin Sumlin said in a release. "We are gathering all the facts and will handle the situation once we have all of the information. We are disappointed with his actions and this is out of character for Johnny."

Police also arrested 20-year-old Steven Brant and 47-year-old Marvin McKinney after the incident, which occurred just after 2 a.m. in a street in the Northgate entertainment district.

Seaton says an officer on bike patrol intervened to break up a fight between Hanziel and McKinney. McKinney told the officer that Brant, Manziel's friend, called him a racial slur and he approached Brant. Seaton says Manziel then shoved McKinney and the two exchanged punches.

When officers asked Manziel for an ID, he produced a phony Louisiana driver's license that showed his birthday as Dec. 6, 1990. Police checked Manziel's wallet and found two more ID cards -- a fake Texas driver's license and Manziel's real driver's license that listed his date of birth as Dec. 6, 1992.

Manti Te'o is the heart of Notre Dame - Los Angeles Times

SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Amid the fury of the game, the roaring crowd and thudding hits, the clatter of shoulder pads, Manti Te'o searches for a quiet moment.

Stepping away from his teammates, he closes his eyes and takes a deep breath, says a quick prayer.

It's just football, he whispers.

If only that were true.

As an inside linebacker at Notre Dame — and the emotional core of his team — Te'o is having the kind of season that players dream about, dominating opponents while lifting the Irish to No. 1 in the Bowl Championship Series standings. But football is only part of the story.

For all his success, he has endured well-publicized heartache. There have been personal tragedies and the expectations that come with ranking among the best defensive players in the land.

This young man from Hawaii, who would just as soon be hanging out with friends and going to church, doesn't particularly like hearing his name in the Heisman Trophy conversation.

"I don't like all the noise," he said. "I don't like the spotlight."

As the Irish prepare to face USC in their traditional rivalry game Saturday, it seems the past few months have asked much of Te'o, certainly more than just running, hitting and tackling.

"When you go through a lot, whether it be on the field or in life, you need to step back," he said. "You need to understand what is important."

::

The bad news came in bunches. The day after Te'o turned 21 last January, his grandfather passed away. A few months later, a cousin died at birth.

Then, in September, his grandmother and his girlfriend — who was battling leukemia — died one after the other.

Hailing from a large, close-knit family, the 6-foot-2, 255-pound athlete found himself dealing with something he could not outrace or bull his way through.

"Young people have this tendency to feel they are invincible," his father Brian said. "Manti had to learn from the experience and find strength around him."

Family and friends provided support. So did the Mormon church. And football.

"The game has always been his outlet," said Robby Toma, a high school teammate who followed him to Notre Dame. "It's just a way for him to set aside his emotions and go out and do what he loves."

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

To be completely fair, Te'o did not have a good game against Pitt. Yeah, he was almost definitely really sick, but Heisman winners don't need to make excuses.

For the record, I firmly believe Te'o should win the award. Just trying to be as fair as possible to our visitor.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

People who don't watch ND football don't seem to realize that 'judgment call,' if it would have gone the other way, would have merely tied the game up.

or that we had a "judgment call" go against us

Notre Dame vs Stanford 2012 Third Quarter Condensed - YouTube

 

[BurningRiver]

"The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity."

Te'o. End of story.

Nowhere in there is it said that the player with the best stats wins. Nowhere in there is it said that the best offensive player or quarterback wins. I understand Johnny Football has put up stats unlike any seen in recent memory, even better than Cam Newton's Heisman season in 2010.

That being said, the phrase "player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity" isn't just in there as a throw-in. It means something. In recent years that's been the case, with characters such as Reggie Bush and the aforementioned Newton receiving the award, and that important phrase has begun to be ignored. Not only is Te'o arguably the best defensive, and maybe the best overall, player in the country, but if you look up the word "integrity" in the dictionary, his face is there.

If the Heisman voters are considering the above description, the description they claim to be their mission statement, there is no way they wouldn't vote for Te'o. Unfortunately, most of the voters, driven by the media (especially those at the four-letter network), just try to make their lives easier by voting for the quarterback with the highest combination of passing and rushing touchdowns.

It's a damn shame, but it's true. The Heisman voting process is broken, and if it weren't there's no way Te'o wouldn't be the one holding that trophy on December 8th.

 

[ACamp1900]

Will they vote for a freshman before a defenseive player... or vice versa... either way the trophy will be deserved. I of course want to see Manti win it. I think Burning River's post speaks to why he should win it.

If Johnny football does good for him. That'll be Manti's take, and it'll be mine as well.

 

[phork]

Mike Valenti, he of MSU Rant fame, a local Detroit radio host suggested there was something fishy with Manti's eventual signing with ND. Why would a Hawaiian kid who had his pick of any place he wanted to go and being Mormon pick Catholic U in the middle of no where?

I think we all know why, and frankly to question this kids integrity is pretty crappy at best.

 

[ACamp1900]

Mike Valenti, he of MSU Rant fame, a local Detroit radio host suggested there was something fishy with Manti's eventual signing with ND. Why would a Hawaiian kid who had his pick of any place he wanted to go and being Mormon pick Catholic U in the middle of no where?

I think we all know why, and frankly to question this kids integrity is pretty crappy at best.

M.
S.
U.

 

[Ag11]

Just to play devils advocate what is so special about this year that Manti couldn't do the last 3 years? Is it just his personal growth and experience that completely turned the team around in his senior year??

I think it is more apparent that in his Freshman year JFF came in and replaced a top ten NFL quaterback in the first year in a more difficult conference (and don't even pretend the Big 12 is good this year) and completely turned around the program. You see where I am going with this?

Why didn't Teo's leadership and inspiration lead his team to victory last year? Surely you wont say he gained it and people played harder because his grandma and gf died. (Not to diminish the true greatness of his story but that cant be the catalyst that inspired him to be something he wasn't already before)

And to all of JFF is a criminal types. You have your opinion and that is ok. It is what it is. If you want to elevate Manti over Johnny because of one incident you heard about on the news thats ok I don't blame you. Being arrested and lying to the cops is always a bad idea and shouldn't be condoned. If that is what the voters decide the Heisman trophy is about then thats fair enough. I just hope all of you were voting for Tebow every year for his inspirational and emotional play. And he did it every year not just his senior season. If that is your standard than I understand why you undermine JFF's incredible year I just think its a little petty and homerish.

 

[JughedJones]

You come on to a Notre Dame message board and accuse the posters of being 'homerish.'

::slowclap::

 

[Ag11]

You come on to a Notre Dame message board and accuse the posters of being 'homerish.'

::slowclap::

Actually I have found you guys to be a fairly reasonable bunch who have given Johnny respect while still supporting your player. We are all homers but I feel like so far we have had a pretty good heisman conversation. At least on my side I have felt listened to and most all responded with welcome and thought out responses and I appreciate that.

 

[JughedJones]

Actually I have found you guys to be a fairly reasonable bunch who have given Johnny respect while still supporting your player. We are all homers but I feel like so far we have had a pretty good heisman conversation. At least on my side I have felt listened to and most all responded with welcome and thought out responses and I appreciate that.

Yeah, normally folks here are reasonable and respectful. Sometimes I don't reflect the best of what IE has to offer though. Especially when Johnny Football fans come in and accuse Manti of being all 'Tribal Tattoos and jumping jacks.'

Sorry if I'm being snarky, but I have a feeling if I went on an A+M board and pointed out that Johnny 'Football' was undeserving because he was responsible for their two losses and a hothead with a record, I wouldn't be terribly well received.

 

[Ag11]

Yeah, normally folks here are reasonable and respectful. Sometimes I don't reflect the best of what IE has to offer though. Especially when Johnny Football fans come in and accuse Manti of being all 'Tribal Tattoos and jumping jacks.'

Sorry if I'm being snarky, but I have a feeling if I went on an A+M board and pointed out that Johnny 'Football' was undeserving because he was responsible for their two losses and a hothead with a record, I wouldn't be terribly well received.

Indeed you would not haha. They call the football board at TexAgs "the zoo" for a reason. And no worries I understand haha. I'm sure you are just a passionate fan supporting your player like us all but in real life I'm sure your a reasonable and levelheaded person.

 

[johnnykillz]

Indeed you would not haha. They call the football board at TexAgs "the zoo" for a reason. And no worries I understand haha. I'm sure you are just a passionate fan supporting your player like us all but in real life I'm sure your a reasonable and levelheaded person.

Here's some good reading for you: http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/other-college-football/77915-manziel-new-tate-forcier.html