2010 and 2011 Fifth-year seniors: question for the board

[Emcee77]

There's been a lot of debate on this board lately about which fifth-years are going to be invited back. Got me thinking ...

Last year, Cwynar chose not to return. The only players who weren't offered a fifth year were Deion Walker, Brandon Newman, Lane Clelland, Hafis Williams, Anthony McDonald and David Posluszny. Not one of them was ever any kind of serious contributor, except maybe in practice, if that.

In other words, we brought back every senior who had a fifth year available and had ever contributed on the football field for us, as well as two who really didn't (Goodman, McCarthy).

But last year's frosh class was small with the late decommits ... we had the schollies to give. Was last year an outlier, or is that how Kelly does business?

So my question for the board: does anyone remember the fifth-year situation in 2011 and 2010? Did Kelly bring back every senior who contributed and had a fifth year available, or did he cut loose any contributors?

Might help us forecast who comes back this year. If we find that he has never cut loose a contributing player, then I'm even more inclined to think that any of Slaughter, Watt, Martin, Fox, Calabrese and Wood who wants to come back, gets to.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

There's been a lot of debate on this board lately about which fifth-years are going to be invited back. Got me thinking ...

Last year, Cwynar chose not to return. The only players who weren't offered a fifth year were Deion Walker, Brandon Newman, Lane Clelland, Hafis Williams, Anthony McDonald and David Posluszny. Not one of them was ever any kind of serious contributor, except maybe in practice, if that.

In other words, we brought back every senior who had a fifth year available and had ever contributed on the football field for us, as well as two who really didn't (Goodman, McCarthy).

But last year's frosh class was small with the late decommits ... we had the schollies to give. Was last year an outlier, or is that how Kelly does business?

So my question for the board: does anyone remember the fifth-year situation in 2011 and 2010? Did Kelly bring back every senior who contributed and had a fifth year available, or did he cut loose any contributors?

Might help us forecast who comes back this year. If we find that he has never cut loose a contributing player, then I'm even more inclined to think that any of Slaughter, Watt, Martin, Fox, Calabrese and Wood who wants to come back, gets to.

The question is will he continue to keep all contributors if there is a # crunch and top HS players want in.

 

[EifertPower]

I think that's how he operates. I mean, those guys weren't even "his guys" since Weis had recruited them all. I'm sure he'd be even more attached and seeing potential in guys that he recruits from the start. All that said, last year, we had such a small class and some transfers and decommits that we needed seasoned bodies and it just made more sense to offer them 5th years than bring in a recruit just to bring in a recruit if they weren't the "right kind of guy".

I keep wondering why we brought back McCarthy for a 5th year if he never sees the field even after all of our inexperience and injuries. But maybe McCarthy is a great team player who does in practice exactly what Kelly wants.

 

[EifertPower]

Here's my list of potential 5th years next year:

Obviously Eifert is going pro.

Will Martin and Wood?

I think Watt, Fox, Calabrese are all offered a 5th year. Martin and Wood too if they don't go pro.

I don't think Golic and Stockton would get one.

Any chance Slaughter can get a 6th year?

RB Cierre Wood
TE Tyler Eifert
TE Jake Golic
OG Chris Watt
OT Zach Martin
DT Tyler Stockton
LB Dan Fox
LB Carlo Calabrese

 

[stlnd01]

I've got to think the guys who play significant minutes this year will be able to come back, with the possible exception of Calabrese.
At this point they've played in a lot of big games - unlike incoming recruits - and, frankly, there's always another stud recruit in the pipeline next year.
So that means, assuming Eifert's gone, these guys get offered: a 5th year:
Wood
Watt
Martin
Fox

Maybe Calabrese, because there's so little experience returning at MLB. Golic & Stockton I don't think so.

I guess Martin or Wood might jump to the NFL. But by no means is either is a slam dunk like Eifert, and under Kelly, the close ones have come back.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I would think Calabrese is offered a 5th year. He is a major contributor on D.

 

[Junkhead]

I would think Calabrese is offered a 5th year. He is a major contributor on D.

His people will get him a 5th year.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

His people will get him a 5th year.

That...and we graduate a heisman candidate.

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

His people will get him a 5th year.

Good one.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Keith Arnold reports that Zack Martin returning for a 5Y is all but a done deal.

He's also projecting at least four 5Ys-- Z. Martin, Watt, Calabrese, and Fox-- with Wood being 50/50. I normally wouldn't put much stock in such predictions, but Arnold is pretty well connected.

 

[Emcee77]

Man, that would make the numbers awfully tight, unless we have some guys go on medical.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

If Cierre's thinking he gets a 2nd round grade, which is unlikely but possible, he should probably take it and run. Pun intended.

 

[notredomer23]

Man, if those guys he mentioned plus Cierre all come back, look out college football. That team should be better than this one

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Man, that would make the numbers awfully tight, unless we have some guys go on medical.

Four 5Ys only leaves us two more spots in this class-- AQM and Redfield, presumably, which means no Treadwell or Folston. Bringing back 5 would mean turning away one of AQM or Redfield.

A decommitment by Mattingly or medicals for Nichols and/or Hegarty would obviously free up some space, but at a price.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

If Cierre's thinking he gets a 2nd round grade, which is unlikely but possible, he should probably take it and run. Pun intended.

None of his projected draft grades have even been close to 2nd round; at least none of that I've seen.

 

[dublinirish]

i think cierre should wait til the NFL Draft Advisory's prediction on where he might be drafted before making his final decision.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

None of his projected draft grades have even been close to 2nd round; at least none of that I've seen.

Well, he really needs a combine. He could get to a 2nd round *projection* with good enough times. Just don't know if he can get them.

 

[irishpat183]

None of his projected draft grades have even been close to 2nd round; at least none of that I've seen.

HOw could they?? He barely plays....I understand that the combine is a big deal, but teams know that combine kings usually don't pan out.


Smart thing would be to comeback and tear it up.

Efiert is gone. The NFL loves the big athletic TE's....

 

[irishpat183]

i think cierre should wait til the NFL Draft Advisory's prediction on where he might be drafted before making his final decision.

He needs to stay. The carries will do him good. Combine is nice but too many guys that blow it up at the combine don't do jack in the NFL...


Besides, if he's as good as you guys say he is, then coming back will only help him, right??

 

[Emcee77]

Four 5Ys only leaves us two more spots in this class-- AQM and Redfield, presumably, which means no Treadwell or Folston. Bringing back 5 would mean turning away one of AQM or Redfield.

A decommitment by Mattingly or medicals for Nichols and/or Hegarty would obviously free up some space, but at a price.

Right. I would prefer not to lose any of those three guys, but l could deal with losing Mattingly and Nichols (especially with Martin and Watt back). Those two guys, Mattingly and Nichols, are promising players but not necessarily essential guys. But who will play center next year if we lose Hegarty? Losing him would be getting back a scholarship at a price we don't want to pay, imo.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Keith Arnold reports that Zack Martin returning for a 5Y is all but a done deal.

He's also projecting at least four 5Ys-- Z. Martin, Watt, Calabrese, and Fox-- with Wood being 50/50. I normally wouldn't put much stock in such predictions, but Arnold is pretty well connected.

Woot

 

[irishff1014]

Keith Arnold reports that Zack Martin returning for a 5Y is all but a done deal.

He's also projecting at least four 5Ys-- Z. Martin, Watt, Calabrese, and Fox-- with Wood being 50/50. I normally wouldn't put much stock in such predictions, but Arnold is pretty well connected.

Fox ok Calabrese is a wasted spot IMO.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If Cierre's thinking he gets a 2nd round grade, which is unlikely but possible, he should probably take it and run. Pun intended.

Whaaaa. How is that possible? Studs get second round grades, not guys in Cierre's situation. Simply put he's not a top 64 player in the country.

He's probably a 5-7 grade, and much closer to 7.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Right. I would prefer not to lose any of those three guys, but l could deal with losing Mattingly and Nichols (especially with Martin and Watt back). Those two guys, Mattingly and Nichols, are promising players but not necessarily essential guys. But who will play center next year if we lose Hegarty? Losing him would be getting back a scholarship at a price we don't want to pay, imo.

Of course. A medical for Hegarty would be an unmitigated disaster.

Fox ok Calabrese is a wasted spot IMO.

The kid has started a lot of games for us. It's tough to let that kind of experience walk away, particularly when we're losing Te'o and ILB is a position of need for us.

 

[Old Man Mike]

KArnold's comment on ZMart makes my day, just as the Hegarty situation had ruined it. ZMart and Watt anchoring one side with AA play out of Zach and championship quality play out of Chris makes things a whale of a lot better. Lombard is still there and growing into championship play status. Maybe Ronnie Stanley can come in and Christian shift to guard. NMart is a high quality back-up, nearly everywhere. That leaves center.

At center we were the "Four-HMen" behind Cave: Hegarty, Harrell, Heggie, and Hanratty [Connor was practicing snapping when he came to ND, seeing the opportunity there]. Matt was the clear heir apparent, which is why Kelly went to him to switch from tackle so early. If Matt can't go.... who really does? It will probably be Harrell.

When you look at the rest of the team, every lost-to-graduation position is fillable with HIGH talent athletes, mostly experienced and two-deep... except the irreplaceable Manti. The only thing that we lack [with any reasonable luck at all] is defensive leadership, where we lose the three demonstrable alpha dogs. Day will fill KLMs physical role, and I bet that Big Lou fills the leadership part. Can Dan step up and lead the linebackers? We will have three positions there operating at championship levels [Fox, Spond, and Shembo, he at AA level]. If Grace is "merely" GOOD+, this unit will be devastating --- but we need a leader. The D-Backfield should be fear-inspiring by next season. We are loaded at corners and at safeties, BUT WE NEED TO REPLACE ZEKE'S ON-FIELD COACHING. Can Farley get there? Can Collinsworth? Shumate? Baratti? We have candidates. I am betting that Zeke's job goes to the guy with the ability to herd cats, rather than just the best athlete.

This post is in response to the "look out football world" viewpoint. It's look out world IF we solidify the O-Line AND find the defensive leadership. We need to do both to send out the look out challenge. ZMart and Fox coming back are big parts of this "maybe". Watt, too. Calabrese maybe. Wood probably not, in these terms. I'll bet Diaco is sitting there meditating on the potential leadership skills of Nix, Shembo, Fox, Jackson [my four leading candidates] right now, and grooming some safety to be the on-field general. Hiestand is lying awake nights hoping for a Hegarty recovery, and whether to play NMart at guard or Stanley at tackle.

That is after they get Wake Forest out of their minds.....

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Whaaaa. How is that possible? Studs get second round grades, not guys in Cierre's situation. Simply put he's not a top 64 player in the country.

He's probably a 5-7 grade, and much closer to 7.

Which is why I said that if he gets one, or could possibly get one, he should leave. It's unlikely but possible.

 

[irishff1014]

Of course. A medical for Hegarty would be an unmitigated disaster.



The kid has started a lot of games for us. It's tough to let that kind of experience walk away, particularly when we're losing Te'o and ILB is a position of need for us.

I understand that bt sometimes it is better to look forward.